Author Topic: The Leo Komarov Question  (Read 11506 times)

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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #30 on: December 22, 2015, 03:58:50 PM »
Well, his shot totals are increasing year by year in the NHL on a per game basis, and, he had 3 shots a game 2 years in the KHL, his two best years, roughly a third more than now. It's not the NHL I know, still, he's shown that when opportunity arises he makes the most of it and his game still seems to be improving.

Or rather he's shown that his stats are heavily influenced by outside factors. Last year his two most frequent linemates were Santo and Holland. Now it's Kadri and JVR. There isn't really anywhere to go from there. Once you're on the top line they can't bump you higher. Any further improvement would have to come from him or the Leafs having better first line players, which is unlikely for the duration of Komarov's deal.
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Offline caveman

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #31 on: December 22, 2015, 04:01:50 PM »
Well, like I said above it would be to incorporate better players and because he's not likely to remain this "effective" regardless of ice time/linemates.

I agree, though, I can see Babcock (or any other coach) seeing him as a useful 3rd piece on a line with 2 skilled offensive players and using him in a Holmstrom type role on the PP, so, even though he wouldn't have the same level of effectiveness in terms of shooting percentage and such, I can see him still being a good position to put up points.

I'd still trade high on him, though. I like him a lot, and if he was ~5 years younger, I'd be arguing in favour of hanging on to him, but, I don't think the long-term value in holding on to him is there. Guys with his style tend not to last well into their 30s. He might have a little more gas in the tank because he played mostly in the KHL, but it's not like he suddenly picked up the physical game when he came to the NHL.

I think these are the points to remember...as much as Komarov is liked..and another younger grinder may come along..maybe Brendan Leipsic.. ( he may be a bit small to do it in the NHL )

Offline Tigger

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #32 on: December 22, 2015, 04:18:25 PM »
Well, his shot totals are increasing year by year in the NHL on a per game basis, and, he had 3 shots a game 2 years in the KHL, his two best years, roughly a third more than now. It's not the NHL I know, still, he's shown that when opportunity arises he makes the most of it and his game still seems to be improving.

Or rather he's shown that his stats are heavily influenced by outside factors. Last year his two most frequent linemates were Santo and Holland. Now it's Kadri and JVR. There isn't really anywhere to go from there. Once you're on the top line they can't bump you higher. Any further improvement would have to come from him or the Leafs having better first line players, which is unlikely for the duration of Komarov's deal.

So you don't think it's possible for him to improve, ok.

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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2015, 04:28:08 PM »
So you don't think it's possible for him to improve, ok.

I'm pretty sure I said it wasn't likely, not impossible but you do you.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Tigger

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #34 on: December 22, 2015, 04:42:12 PM »
So you don't think it's possible for him to improve, ok.

I'm pretty sure I said it wasn't likely, not impossible but you do you.

I think he's shown improvement every year, notably this one too. There's a ceiling to that, sure, but I don't think he's reached it.

Anywho, unless a team is going to seriously break the bank to try to get him, I think he stays a Leaf until his last contract year. One thing I've been mulling, if the Leafs were to offer say, JVR and Leo in a package, what could they get? It's not very likely to happen, still, if we're trying to see what Leo is worth it's interesting to cover other angles too.
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Offline Joe S.

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #35 on: December 22, 2015, 05:05:21 PM »
He's having his Klein season.

He's having his Kulemin 2010-2011 season.

That's what I typed. It auto corrected a I didn't notice.

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #36 on: December 22, 2015, 06:26:04 PM »
If the Leafs keep at this pace, minus October, I don't see them trading players for picks at all.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2015, 08:17:52 PM »
Anywho, unless a team is going to seriously break the bank to try to get him, I think he stays a Leaf until his last contract year. One thing I've been mulling, if the Leafs were to offer say, JVR and Leo in a package, what could they get? It's not very likely to happen, still, if we're trying to see what Leo is worth it's interesting to cover other angles too.

Even if you do that in the off-season you're talking about a team taking on enough salary that I don't know if you'd do better than just offering them up individually.
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Offline Rebel_1812

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2015, 11:48:46 PM »
This is his Jason Blake year.  Sell while high.
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Offline Highlander

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2015, 01:02:09 AM »
Komarov was the best player on the Leaf side tonight
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Offline Arn

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2015, 04:04:11 AM »
Interesting to hear the comparisons with Abdelkader. I didn't realise they were the same age.

Looking at War on Ice they've produced interestingly similar numbers the last 2 seasons also in some areas.

Points per 60
Komarov 1.8 and 1.7
Abdelkader 1.6 and 1.6

Corsi For
Komarov 53.4 and 46.9
Abdelkader 48.9 and 56.2

The big difference is in shooting %
Komarov 17.8 and 10.4
Abdelkader 11.4 and 11.8

So allowing for a regression to Komarov's probably pushes Abdelkader's numbers slightly above Komarov's.

I do suspect we're seeing Komarov's top end skills at the minute, but I also think he's someone worth keeping around. I'm not as sure we can find someone with quite the same skillset on the UFA market and I find that on an, I guess, emotive level I like having Komarov on the team. The team has not been a team with many characters to like or root for over the last few years and Komarov is partly responsible for helping me to re-engage with the side. As a fan I'd rather he stayed for that reason as much as I recognise the need to rebuild.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #41 on: December 23, 2015, 06:53:23 AM »

Just off the top of my head, here are some guys who have recently been available as UFA's:

Max Talbot, Eric Fehr, Jussi Jokinen, Joel Ward, Scottie Upshall, Matt Beleskey, Daniel Winnik, Gregory Campbell, Antoine Vermette, Boyd Gordon, Blake Comeau, Brian Boyle and, just for fun, Daniel Winnik again(they signed him twice!)

Now, are any of those guys exactly like Leo Komarov? I guess not. Some are better at some things, some are worse at other things but all of them provide a lot of what Komarov does when he's not shooting 22%. Heck, if you want an example of a player exactly like Leo Komarov who was recently available as a UFA how about Leo Komarov? A pretty good case can be made that the vet with good intangibles who can kill penalties, add some grit and pop in a goal every now and then is among the easiest things to find on the UFA market.

Obviously I can't disagree from an emotional/fan's desire to keep Komarov but I do think that as guys like Nylander/Marner/this year's first rounder join the team, Leafs fans aren't going to be hard pressed to find guys to root for.
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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2015, 08:30:49 AM »
I disagree with the easily replaceable with anybody argument.

This game is entertainment.  Part of that is character development.  All of the names on Nik's list do not register a pulse with me.  Komarov is a story, he's contrary to Don Cherry's "european" stereotype.  If Komarov grew up in Oakville Cherry would be slobbering all of this guy.  Komarov's works hard, has talent, makes other teams miserable.  Really one of the "bottom six" guys that Burke was talking about.  How many of these ufa rentals are memorable.  As fans, it has to be more than results on the scoresheet and games won.  Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about the leafs,  its a loser franchise of Cubs proportions..

There are a few players that have struck a chord with me over the years.  Garry Valk and Igor Korolev and Komarov fits that mold with me. (Or Berg, Thomas, and Zezel)

If the right offer comes along then you really can't refuse it because he is having what will be his best year in the NHL.  But what he brings to the rink every nights is something that you hope can rub off on younger bottom six guys coming up, and your star players for that matter.




Online herman

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2015, 09:21:09 AM »
I disagree with the easily replaceable with anybody argument.

This game is entertainment.  Part of that is character development.  All of the names on Nik's list do not register a pulse with me.  Komarov is a story, he's contrary to Don Cherry's "european" stereotype.  If Komarov grew up in Oakville Cherry would be slobbering all of this guy.  Komarov's works hard, has talent, makes other teams miserable.  Really one of the "bottom six" guys that Burke was talking about.  How many of these ufa rentals are memorable.  As fans, it has to be more than results on the scoresheet and games won.  Otherwise we wouldn't be talking about the leafs,  its a loser franchise of Cubs proportions..

There are a few players that have struck a chord with me over the years.  Garry Valk and Igor Korolev and Komarov fits that mold with me. (Or Berg, Thomas, and Zezel)

If the right offer comes along then you really can't refuse it because he is having what will be his best year in the NHL.  But what he brings to the rink every nights is something that you hope can rub off on younger bottom six guys coming up, and your star players for that matter.

The argument is that we're on the cusp of turning the corner from lauding lunch pail grinders as the only source of celebration on our team because our new core will be exciting enough as players, personalities, and people. Komarov is nice to have, and I wouldn't mind keeping him; but if some GM out there offers primo swag, I'm going to take it and run.

In short: Stanley Cups >> Komarov's entertainment value >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don Cherry's philosophy of play

Offline bustaheims

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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2015, 09:34:09 AM »
The argument is that we're on the cusp of turning the corner from lauding lunch pail grinders as the only source of celebration on our team because our new core will be exciting enough as players, personalities, and people. Komarov is nice to have, and I wouldn't mind keeping him; but if some GM out there offers primo swag, I'm going to take it and run.

In short: Stanley Cups >> Komarov's entertainment value >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Don Cherry's philosophy of play

Basically, yeah. I mean, first and foremost, what Don Cherry thinks about players on the Leafs' roster shouldn't have any influence on anything. He doesn't run the team. He's not employed by the team. He's never been officially associated with the team. He's really just a fan who happens to have a TV segment - and, a fan that's stuck on the way the game used to be played rather than the way it's played now.

I'm also very much looking forward to the days where we, as Leaf fans, don't glorify role players and grinders. It doesn't matter how much of a personality they are, or how good a story. What matters is how much individual players really contribute to the team's ability to be a championship calibre team, and, in those situations, these guys are replaceable. And, you know what would really make them memorable? Being part of a team that brings the Cup back to Toronto - but, in order to get to that point, you have to add as much potential high-end talent to the organization as possible, and, if moving a guy like Komarov - who is pushing 30 and enjoying a career season with an unsustainable shooting percentage - then you make that move without hesitation. No one is saying that the Leafs should just give him away, but there's an opportunity to sell high here, and these are situations the Leafs need to start to take advantage of.
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Re: The Leo Komarov Question
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2015, 09:34:09 AM »