Author Topic: Johansen possibly being shopped.  (Read 6221 times)

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Offline azzurri63

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2015, 09:45:19 AM »
Bozak's approaching 30 and is in his 6th full season. I would also probably say Tyler has had better offensive line mates than Johansen has had in his short career. Bazooka has never hit 50 points. Johansen is on the rise. Somethings up in Columbus either injury wise or issues with Torts. He has all the tools of a number 1 counterman. I think he is only going to get better. Seems like there some mixed feelings about the thread. Nik though is absolutely right sometimes you don't halve to mortgage the farm to pick a player in this calibre up. All I'm saying is the Leafs should be right in there inquiring. He's still young and although I'm 100% with the rebuild but this doesn't stray away with that. I've always said when it comes to draft picks unless it's a top pick it's a crap shoot. As I stated if the Leafs keep playing the way they are the pick might be around 10th. I don't think you get someone in Johansen's calibre. I know that could be a lower pick with the lottery but not much.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2015, 09:52:24 AM »
In the sense of Crosby/Stamkos/Toews? No, probably not. In the sense of that next rung of Getzlaf/Giroux/Backstrom? I think he's either there or very close.

Maybe, but all of those guys aren't players use as a centrepiece to build around. Whereas guys like Crosby/Stamkos/Toews can drive the offence on their own, the others all need another piece on their line to be really effective. They're in the top tier at creating chances, but they're 2nd tier type goal scorers. To me, a franchise guy needs to be among the best in the league for both, or be an exceptional defender if they're not exceptional goal scorers (which might push Giroux close to that top tier, but not so much the other guys or Johansen).
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline bustaheims

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2015, 09:54:20 AM »
Bozak's approaching 30 and is in his 6th full season. I would also probably say Tyler has had better offensive line mates than Johansen has had in his short career. Bazooka has never hit 50 points. Johansen is on the rise. Somethings up in Columbus either injury wise or issues with Torts. He has all the tools of a number 1 counterman. I think he is only going to get better. Seems like there some mixed feelings about the thread. Nik though is absolutely right sometimes you don't halve to mortgage the farm to pick a player in this calibre up. All I'm saying is the Leafs should be right in there inquiring. He's still young and although I'm 100% with the rebuild but this doesn't stray away with that. I've always said when it comes to draft picks unless it's a top pick it's a crap shoot. As I stated if the Leafs keep playing the way they are the pick might be around 10th. I don't think you get someone in Johansen's calibre. I know that could be a lower pick with the lottery but not much.

You and other people had stated this, and, every time, the numbers have been presented to show how that's not likely to be true. The way the Leafs have been playing involves exceptional goaltending and the other team having the puck more than they do. That's not a recipe that will see them climb the standings, but one that will more that likely see them drop in them.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2015, 10:27:58 AM »
Maybe, but all of those guys aren't players use as a centrepiece to build around. Whereas guys like Crosby/Stamkos/Toews can drive the offence on their own, the others all need another piece on their line to be really effective. They're in the top tier at creating chances, but they're 2nd tier type goal scorers. To me, a franchise guy needs to be among the best in the league for both, or be an exceptional defender if they're not exceptional goal scorers (which might push Giroux close to that top tier, but not so much the other guys or Johansen).

This just seems like squabbling about what a "franchise" player means. Everyone will have a slightly different definition. To be Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Toews, Giroux, Getzlaf, Backstrom, Tavares, and Seguin are all "franchise" players. At least while they're still in their primes (looking at you, Getzlaf). Obviously you can divide that group into two smaller groups as well. Kopitar, Bergeron, and Datsyuk would be in a tier very, very close to those guys. If Kopitar and Bergeron scored a tad more and Datsyuk stopped aging and getting hurt they'd be there.

For my money Johansen would be the next best centre after all those guys. Being the 13th best centre in the league is nothing to be ashamed of. Especially since he's younger than everyone ahead of him. So "franchise" centre? Maybe not, but if he can score 70 points back-to-back I'd think about it.

Offline Deebo

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2015, 10:33:52 AM »
Bazooka has never hit 50 points.

Why does 50 points matter? He's had seasons where he recorded: 49 in 73GP, 49 in 58GP and 47 in 73GP. If he played a few more game in any of those seasons and hit 50 points, would it change you opinion of him as a player?

Offline herman

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped
« Reply #35 on: November 27, 2015, 10:51:01 AM »
I was wondering how Johansen compared to Kadri. Their HERO charts made it look like he was a shootier (and scorier) version of Kadri.

Here's a fun chart I found while looking for articles comparing the two:


Source: http://www.todaysslapshot.com/one-timers/using-advanced-stats-to-classify-nhl-center-types/

Having not seen him play much, other than against us lately, are his Assist totals low because he's saddled with the Hoglunds of CBJ?

From what I have seen, I like the idea of him more than ROR and Statsny, if we're comparing other potential centremen the fandom had targeted in the past. At this stage of the rebuild, he would have to come at a very reasonable cost (i.e. very unreasonable for the other team, or free) for me to entertain this idea.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 10:52:38 AM by herman »

Offline Frank E

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #36 on: November 27, 2015, 10:52:53 AM »
Bazooka has never hit 50 points.

Why does 50 points matter? He's had seasons where he recorded: 49 in 73GP, 49 in 58GP and 47 in 73GP. If he played a few more game in any of those seasons and hit 50 points, would it change you opinion of him as a player?

I think it's probably worth mentioning that he's on pace for 60 points, the best year of his career, if he keeps this up and plays the rest of the games.

And I know that Kadri's points production probably isn't a fair assessment of his play this year, with that SH% being crazy low and all that, but he's only generated 6 assists, and overall he's producing at half the rate Bozak is.  Maybe this has to do with Kadri playing against other teams' top defenders, and really not being good enough to produce properly well given the better players he's facing...so far.  Is Bozak facing the opponents' 3-6 defensemen more often this year?

Anyways, so much for Bozak falling off a cliff when Kessel was traded...so far.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #37 on: November 27, 2015, 03:12:58 PM »
Nik though is absolutely right sometimes you don't halve to mortgage the farm to pick a player in this calibre up.

I'm pretty sure Nik didn't say that.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #38 on: November 27, 2015, 03:16:24 PM »
Maybe, but all of those guys aren't players use as a centrepiece to build around. Whereas guys like Crosby/Stamkos/Toews can drive the offence on their own, the others all need another piece on their line to be really effective. They're in the top tier at creating chances, but they're 2nd tier type goal scorers. To me, a franchise guy needs to be among the best in the league for both, or be an exceptional defender if they're not exceptional goal scorers (which might push Giroux close to that top tier, but not so much the other guys or Johansen).

Without wanting to get into the ins and outs of defining something as inherently subjective as what makes for a "franchise" player I think what we might have to accept is that whether or not it's ideal to build around someone like Kopitar or Bergeron or Getzlaf there is a reality that:

A) It can be done
B) Stubbornly holding out for a Crosby/Toews/Stamkos best in the league type might not be practical
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #39 on: November 27, 2015, 04:00:19 PM »
B) Stubbornly holding out for a Crosby/Toews/Stamkos best in the league type might not be practical

I'm not. I'm just saying it's not practical to trade valuable assets to acquire a Johansen level center right now.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Tigger

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #40 on: November 27, 2015, 04:09:59 PM »
Wait, so the Leafs aren't getting Stamkos? I need to speak with my Ouija board...
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #41 on: November 27, 2015, 04:17:54 PM »
I'm not. I'm just saying it's not practical to trade valuable assets to acquire a Johansen level center right now.

I agree with that. I just don't think it's really a reflection on Johansen. Short of a McDavid/Eichel I don't think the Leafs should move considerable assets for anyone.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #42 on: November 27, 2015, 04:27:01 PM »
I agree with that. I just don't think it's really a reflection on Johansen. Short of a McDavid/Eichel I don't think the Leafs should move considerable assets for anyone.

I agree. I think there's a good chance the Leafs could draft a Johansen level player in the next couple years (or could potentially have a couple in Nylander and Marner). If the Leafs were in a similar position to a team like the Rangers or the Blues, where a Johansen could be the last piece they need to win the Cup, that would be one thing, but, outside of that type of scenario, the asking price isn't going to equal the return.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #43 on: November 27, 2015, 06:26:56 PM »
Wait, so the Leafs aren't getting Stamkos? I need to speak with my Ouija board...

I think you need to get it serviced. 
“How many people from Ontario play in the National Hockey League? Once we make it safe, they’re coming home. Mark my words, they’ll be coming.”
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Offline Highlander

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2015, 07:43:56 PM »
My Ouiji board only has two legs, very difficult to work with.

From the guy who promised you Babcock and was correct way before the day, I will go out on a limb and say Stamkos will be with us as well. Imagine our 4 centres: Stamkos, Kadri, Nylander, Holland in the next year. 
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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2015, 07:43:56 PM »