Author Topic: Johansen possibly being shopped.  (Read 6225 times)

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Offline Frank E

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2015, 11:16:52 AM »
EDIT:  columbus has only 5 draft picks for 2016....they're gonna want some picks.

They're missing a 4th and a 5th. I don't think that's the sort of thing that motivates a team.

We'll disagree on that, but they're going to have to do something...they look to be in a bit of a pickle here.


« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 02:25:41 PM by Frank E »

Offline herman

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2015, 11:40:02 AM »
LOLumbus... that's bad... like worse than Nonis-era bad.

Offline cabber24

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2015, 01:33:27 PM »
The only way Leafs should be acquiring talent is via the draft, including trading vets and temps for more draft picks. The Leafs are in no position to trade away prospects/picks/or foundation players. Picks, picks and more picks. Forget about anything else. The Shanna-plan.
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Offline cabber24

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2015, 01:35:08 PM »
Could we do it without giving up Marner or Nylander? I would risk giving up our first rounder and some other pieces.  I do however like the way they are playing. Like I said goaltending early especially Bernier killed us. We have competed game in game out. At times we've been outplayed and reimer has got us some points. If we don't have to give up too much off the current roster, a young prospect in the minors plus the first rounder could that get it done. The team is not going to make the playoffs. If they can keep playing like this for the whole season and that is being competitive I don't think we will make the playoffs but the 1st rounder might end up being around 5-10 and I would risk giving that up. I know it's a good draft and would love a lottery pick but not sure if we'll end up there.
Barf, the thought of trading first rounder at this time makes me want to puke.
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Offline cabber24

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2015, 01:39:41 PM »
EDIT:  columbus has only 5 draft picks for 2016....they're gonna want some picks.

They're missing a 4th and a 5th. I don't think that's the sort of thing that motivates a team.

We'll disagree on that, but they're going to have to do something...they look to be in a bit of a pickle here:
I don't think their all that bad. I think they are a defense man away from being really competitive. They have been good of late including Bobrosky.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2015, 04:47:08 PM by CarltonTheBear »
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2015, 02:09:55 PM »
We'll disagree on that, but they're going to have to do something...they look to be in a bit of a pickle here:

Sorry, we're disagreeing on whether or not a team not having their 4th or 5th round pick will motivate what they'd want in return for trading away their best player?

You realize the Leafs got a 5th round pick from Anaheim for Korbinian Holzer, right?
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2015, 02:16:06 PM »
Could we do it without giving up Marner or Nylander? I would risk giving up our first rounder and some other pieces.  I do however like the way they are playing. Like I said goaltending early especially Bernier killed us. We have competed game in game out. At times we've been outplayed and reimer has got us some points. If we don't have to give up too much off the current roster, a young prospect in the minors plus the first rounder could that get it done. The team is not going to make the playoffs. If they can keep playing like this for the whole season and that is being competitive I don't think we will make the playoffs but the 1st rounder might end up being around 5-10 and I would risk giving that up. I know it's a good draft and would love a lottery pick but not sure if we'll end up there.

Unless one of the top picks from the previous two drafts is coming back as part of the trade, no trading of the Leafs' own 1st round picks until the team is on the cusp of being a legitimate Cup contender.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2015, 09:48:23 PM »
So one way to look at this might be like this.  If Johansen was talented enough to be a franchise center for a team, then shouldn't Columbus be better?  This doesn't mean that he isn't a real good #1 center.  However, if he is a guy you build around, then shouldn't the Blue Jackets be doing that?  Why trade a guy that you would build around at this stage of his career?

You could play the "Would you trade x for Johansen straight up" game.  Just to throw out some names:

McDavid
Crosby
Malkin
Toews
Seguin
Stamkos
Ovechkin
Kane

That's the type of player the Leafs are hoping to draft.  I don't think any of those teams would trade that player straight up for Johansen.  He's in the second tier of players.  That tier of "really good, but needs other really good pieces around them".
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be.” - Khalil Gibran

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2015, 10:27:01 PM »
So one way to look at this might be like this.  If Johansen was talented enough to be a franchise center for a team, then shouldn't Columbus be better? 

I'm not sure that's really a good measurement. How many years were the Islanders bad despite having Tavares? What does Anaheim's early struggles say about Getzlaf? The Flyers haven't been good in a while. Is Giroux not a legitimate franchise center?

I'm not much on this "rumour" but shouldn't the presence of Seguin on your list at least raise the possibility that top flight players are sometimes available for stupid reasons?
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Offline L K

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2015, 10:31:19 PM »
So one way to look at this might be like this.  If Johansen was talented enough to be a franchise center for a team, then shouldn't Columbus be better? 

I'm not sure that's really a good measurement. How many years were the Islanders bad despite having Tavares? What does Anaheim's early struggles say about Getzlaf? The Flyers haven't been good in a while. Is Giroux not a legitimate franchise center?

I'm not much on this "rumour" but shouldn't the presence of Seguin on your list at least raise the possibility that top flight players are sometimes available for stupid reasons?

Can we declare Johansen a clear franchise center when he has yet to hit PPG status?  Excellent player but he has 183 points in 292 games.  He's close but I'm not sure I put him exactly on that top echelon plateau just yet.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2015, 10:37:17 PM »
Can we declare Johansen a clear franchise center when he has yet to hit PPG status?  Excellent player but he has 183 points in 292 games.  He's close but I'm not sure I put him exactly on that top echelon plateau just yet.

In a league where the Art Ross winner has 87 points I'm not sure PPG is really the cut-off point it used to be.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #26 on: November 26, 2015, 09:16:02 AM »
In a league where the Art Ross winner has 87 points I'm not sure PPG is really the cut-off point it used to be.

That's true, but I think the heart of the question is still valid - is Johansen a franchise center? I'd lean towards no. He's a 1st line calibre guy, sure, but I think he's sort of like the Kessel of centers - very good, but not the you make the centerpiece.
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Offline Highlander

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #27 on: November 26, 2015, 11:46:40 AM »
Nobody I want to trade at this point, don't give up any of our young talent or picks.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2015, 02:32:37 PM »
That's true, but I think the heart of the question is still valid - is Johansen a franchise center? I'd lean towards no. He's a 1st line calibre guy, sure, but I think he's sort of like the Kessel of centers - very good, but not the you make the centerpiece.

In the sense of Crosby/Stamkos/Toews? No, probably not. In the sense of that next rung of Getzlaf/Giroux/Backstrom? I think he's either there or very close.
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Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2015, 05:38:03 PM »
So one way to look at this might be like this.  If Johansen was talented enough to be a franchise center for a team, then shouldn't Columbus be better? 

I'm not sure that's really a good measurement. How many years were the Islanders bad despite having Tavares? What does Anaheim's early struggles say about Getzlaf? The Flyers haven't been good in a while. Is Giroux not a legitimate franchise center?

I'm not much on this "rumour" but shouldn't the presence of Seguin on your list at least raise the possibility that top flight players are sometimes available for stupid reasons?

Can we declare Johansen a clear franchise center when he has yet to hit PPG status?  Excellent player but he has 183 points in 292 games.  He's close but I'm not sure I put him exactly on that top echelon plateau just yet.

Johansen - .627 ppg
T. Bozak - .621 ppg

I know, I know... I'm not making that argument, I just thought it was interesting.
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Re: Johansen possibly being shopped.
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2015, 05:38:03 PM »