Author Topic: 2015-16 Prospects Thread  (Read 42660 times)

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Online Frank E

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #15 on: September 25, 2015, 05:30:57 PM »
But what would be the point of dragging him into the inevitable tire fire that will be the 2015-16 Toronto Maple Leafs season post-deadline, and wasting 1 ELC year/games towards UFA?

Because while you can design a team to be bad in the off-season, in-season you probably can't outright look like you're intentionally making decisions to lose games and still be able to preach what you want to the players you have.

I wouldn't suggest that keeping a 19 year old in the AHL would be seen as intentionally making decisions to lose games.

Healthy scratching him in the NHL could likely be seen as that, but certainly not exposing a teenager to what will likely (hopefully) be a bit of a disaster. 

Online herman

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #16 on: September 25, 2015, 05:36:24 PM »
But what would be the point of dragging him into the inevitable tire fire that will be the 2015-16 Toronto Maple Leafs season post-deadline, and wasting 1 ELC year/games towards UFA?

Because while you can design a team to be bad in the off-season, in-season you probably can't outright look like you're intentionally making decisions to lose games and still be able to preach what you want to the players you have.

I wouldn't suggest that keeping a 19 year old in the AHL would be seen as intentionally making decisions to lose games.

Healthy scratching him in the NHL could likely be seen as that, but certainly not exposing a teenager to what will likely (hopefully) be a bit of a disaster.

I see them bringing in the Carricks and Leivos who have been in the system longer ahead of Nylander without any difficulty justifying that decision. Wasn't Brown tearing up the AHL last season?

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2015, 05:42:00 PM »
I wouldn't suggest that keeping a 19 year old in the AHL would be seen as intentionally making decisions to lose games.

Healthy scratching him in the NHL could likely be seen as that, but certainly not exposing a teenager to what will likely (hopefully) be a bit of a disaster.

I think that if you're looking around post-deadline for people to promote out of the AHL once spots open up and you have someone who is dominating the AHL to the extent we're talking about(remember the idea here is that Nylander is scoring at a league-leading or near league-leading pace) and you pass on Nylander for someone like Casey Bailey or Josh Leivo then it sends a pretty clear message about what the organizational priorities are. The team couldn't hide behind "making sure Nylander is ready" either if, again, he's dominating the AHL so thoroughly.

Even teams as thoroughly in the tank as Arizona and Buffalo last year gave their better AHL prospects call-ups and they didn't have anyone playing at the level of what we're supposing Nylander might. You can't preach a meritocracy and then ignore results like that.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2015, 05:48:06 PM »
I see them bringing in the Carricks and Leivos who have been in the system longer ahead of Nylander without any difficulty justifying that decision. Wasn't Brown tearing up the AHL last season?

Last year's team never was really in the situation where they had to promote AHL guys to fill in regular NHL roster spots. Players like Sill and Lindstrom were brought in for essentially that precise purpose. They might go that route again this year but if not and if ideally there are at least a half-dozen spots open up post-deadline then I think you would need to justify promoting players who are nowhere as good.

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Online herman

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #19 on: September 25, 2015, 06:01:53 PM »
I see them bringing in the Carricks and Leivos who have been in the system longer ahead of Nylander without any difficulty justifying that decision. Wasn't Brown tearing up the AHL last season?

Last year's team never was really in the situation where they had to promote AHL guys to fill in regular NHL roster spots. Players like Sill and Lindstrom were brought in for essentially that precise purpose. They might go that route again this year but if not and if ideally there are at least a half-dozen spots open up post-deadline then I think you would need to justify promoting players who are nowhere as good.

Definitely depends on which spots open up and don't get filled with the trade returns. There is a good chance we will be looking at at least a half dozen moves. I agree with what you say re: meritocracy as well, but continue to hope they protect Nylander for the full season.

Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #20 on: September 25, 2015, 07:15:56 PM »
I think this was a comment on PPP but there's a pretty good chance this season of having Nylander, Marner, and Timashov lead the AHL/OHL/QMJHL in points.

Huh, I never realized that, but yeah there's definitely a decent chance of that. At the very least barring an injury (or in Nylander's case a call-up) they'll all likely be top-5 in scoring.

If Brown stays in the AHL all year, I wonder if his name doesn't make that top-5 list as well.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #21 on: September 25, 2015, 07:17:43 PM »
Definitely depends on which spots open up and don't get filled with the trade returns. There is a good chance we will be looking at at least a half dozen moves. I agree with what you say re: meritocracy as well, but continue to hope they protect Nylander for the full season.

I think that if you're counting on Nylander to play a significant role on the team in the 16-17 season there could very well be real value in getting him 15-20 NHL games this year and exposing him to the difference between the AHL and NHL. Especially if he dominates the AHL but still needs to work at what he needs to succeed in the NHL.
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Offline L K

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #22 on: September 25, 2015, 07:22:21 PM »

Online Bullfrog

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #23 on: September 25, 2015, 10:31:50 PM »
Definitely depends on which spots open up and don't get filled with the trade returns. There is a good chance we will be looking at at least a half dozen moves. I agree with what you say re: meritocracy as well, but continue to hope they protect Nylander for the full season.

I think that if you're counting on Nylander to play a significant role on the team in the 16-17 season there could very well be real value in getting him 15-20 NHL games this year and exposing him to the difference between the AHL and NHL. Especially if he dominates the AHL but still needs to work at what he needs to succeed in the NHL.

That seems to be similar to what they did with Nyquist in Detroit for a couple of seasons. Three straight seasons of ppg production in the AHL with 15 or so games in the NHL.

Offline Potvin29

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #24 on: September 26, 2015, 11:00:11 AM »
I think this was a comment on PPP but there's a pretty good chance this season of having Nylander, Marner, and Timashov lead the AHL/OHL/QMJHL in points.

Huh, I never realized that, but yeah there's definitely a decent chance of that. At the very least barring an injury (or in Nylander's case a call-up) they'll all likely be top-5 in scoring.

Yeah the interesting thing with Nylander is - if he's at a point where he's even got a shot to be top 5 in AHL scoring, is he going to realistically be left in the AHL to do that?  There was an article on TLN about whether he could be the first teenage 100 pt scorer in the AHL but the counterpoint is - why would be still be down there to reach that total if he's producing points at that rate?

Because the Leafs need to lose hockey games?

But I think the reason there's been no 100 point AHL scorers at that age is because if they're that good they're not spending the whole season in the AHL.  At some point the Leafs needing to lose can't come at the expense of the development of players.  Even terrible teams who are bottoming out play their young players if they're clearly ready for the NHL.  Just a question on what's best for his development, because while the Leafs need to lose, they also need Nylander to develop.

Online Highlander

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #25 on: September 26, 2015, 11:20:41 AM »
Not sure about the amount we will lose this year, but I would think this is the last year they will keep Nylander, Kapanen and Brown, down. Also some of the young D will need to move up for 16-17. At least Percy and Loov if they don't make the squad this year.
So agreed with Potvin, we need at some point to let these guys play, if they are ready.
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Online Frank E

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #26 on: September 26, 2015, 11:23:48 AM »

But I think the reason there's been no 100 point AHL scorers at that age is because if they're that good they're not spending the whole season in the AHL.  At some point the Leafs needing to lose can't come at the expense of the development of players.  Even terrible teams who are bottoming out play their young players if they're clearly ready for the NHL.  Just a question on what's best for his development, because while the Leafs need to lose, they also need Nylander to develop.

I don't think an extra 4 months in the AHL is going to delay his development.  And really, he's only 19, and most kids his age are in junior. 

Though I do think that if he blows the doors off this AHL season, they'll have a hard time keeping him off of the Leafs' 2016-2017 opening night roster.

Online Significantly Insignificant

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #27 on: September 26, 2015, 11:40:09 AM »

But I think the reason there's been no 100 point AHL scorers at that age is because if they're that good they're not spending the whole season in the AHL.  At some point the Leafs needing to lose can't come at the expense of the development of players.  Even terrible teams who are bottoming out play their young players if they're clearly ready for the NHL.  Just a question on what's best for his development, because while the Leafs need to lose, they also need Nylander to develop.

I don't think an extra 4 months in the AHL is going to delay his development.  And really, he's only 19, and most kids his age are in junior. 

Though I do think that if he blows the doors off this AHL season, they'll have a hard time keeping him off of the Leafs' 2016-2017 opening night roster.

A comparable might be Jason Spezza.  He was playing in the AHL in the 2002 - 2003 season.  He would have been 19 that year.  I am not sure why he was allowed to play in the AHL.  I guess the rule was different back then.  Here is his season:

2002-03   Binghamton Senators   AHL   43   22   32   54

So he was on a 100 point pace, but he was called up by the Senators late in the season.  Now the Senators were pretty good that year and they weren't trying to bottom out, so that makes the scenario a different.  I believe though that at the start of the year the Senators had said that they would like to keep Spezza in the AHL for the year to work on his defensive play. 
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2015, 03:31:32 PM »
Mitch Marner has been named co-captain of the London Knights, along with fellow returnee Christian Dvorak. He'll make his season debut tomorrow night.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2015, 03:36:54 PM »

Co-captain? What sort of communist nonsense is this?
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Re: 2015-16 Prospects Thread
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2015, 03:36:54 PM »