Author Topic: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy  (Read 2773 times)

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Offline Potvin29

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Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« on: July 23, 2015, 09:15:16 AM »
Figured this interview would be of interest here: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/orlando-solar-bears/2015/7/23/9019313/kyle-dubas-discusses-prospect-development-philosophy

Features a bunch of information on the Orlando Solar Bears as well as more generally with respect to Leafs prospects.

Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2015, 11:00:06 AM »
I could listen to him talk hockey all day, the guy is so refreshingly astute.

Offline Highlander

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2015, 01:32:24 PM »
Yep if we didn't need him with the Leafs I wish he would run for the Republican Party and get rid of all those idiots who don't stand a chance of beating Hillary.  The big question is why can't the Republicans or Liberals in Canada find someone like Dubas.
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2015, 08:29:26 PM »
I think he touches on some interesting subjects but I think that some of the ideas he's pushing with regards to the ECHL club are sort of more philosophical than they could ever be practical.

He talks about using it more as a developmental league than it's been in the past and how they don't want players to see it as a punishment but realistically those things are largely outside of the club's control. A lot of what goes into the quality of a developmental league is the opposition you're playing against, something the Leafs will have no control over, and there's really little doubt that players will see it as a demotion with unfortunate consequences if they're playing in a league with not as nice arenas or worse travel conditions or less amenities(although I confess I'm assuming most of these things are true about the ECHL vs. AHL).

I appreciate that the team might want to invest more in developing ECHL players or choose coaching staff based on getting better results out of ECHL players but I really don't see much coming from this.
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Offline Highlander

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2015, 08:34:41 AM »
some interesting points Nik, I will add a couple of thoughts.  They will ride in tour buses, same as the AHL and I have been to the Solar Bears Arena, way better than Ricoh any day. Can't speak for the rest of the barns they play in but Orlando is top notch.
As long as players can go to Orlando without feeling they are being punished but have a chance to rejuvenate or develop their game. Hell Biggs even found some Mojo there before coming back to the Marlies and injury. So much so that Pittsburg took him off us.
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2015, 08:48:54 AM »
I think he touches on some interesting subjects but I think that some of the ideas he's pushing with regards to the ECHL club are sort of more philosophical than they could ever be practical.

He talks about using it more as a developmental league than it's been in the past and how they don't want players to see it as a punishment but realistically those things are largely outside of the club's control. A lot of what goes into the quality of a developmental league is the opposition you're playing against, something the Leafs will have no control over, and there's really little doubt that players will see it as a demotion with unfortunate consequences if they're playing in a league with not as nice arenas or worse travel conditions or less amenities(although I confess I'm assuming most of these things are true about the ECHL vs. AHL).

I appreciate that the team might want to invest more in developing ECHL players or choose coaching staff based on getting better results out of ECHL players but I really don't see much coming from this.

I've brought up Carter Verhaeghe a couple of times as a prime candidate for someone who might be with the ECHL team this year. The Marlies have a pretty deep group at forward this season, so if he's in the AHL it'll likely be as a bottom-6, maybe even spare 4th line player with little powerplay time. So his options are 1) limited minutes in the AHL, 2) being sent back to the OHL for his overage season, or 3) playing top-6 minutes in the ECHL. What's best for his development? As long as we're only talking about a 1-year (at most) situation I think I'd probably lean towards options 3.

You are right though, a lot of it depends on how the player himself handles the situation.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2015, 09:16:44 AM »
I've brought up Carter Verhaeghe a couple of times as a prime candidate for someone who might be with the ECHL team this year. The Marlies have a pretty deep group at forward this season, so if he's in the AHL it'll likely be as a bottom-6, maybe even spare 4th line player with little powerplay time. So his options are 1) limited minutes in the AHL, 2) being sent back to the OHL for his overage season, or 3) playing top-6 minutes in the ECHL. What's best for his development? As long as we're only talking about a 1-year (at most) situation I think I'd probably lean towards options 3.

You are right though, a lot of it depends on how the player himself handles the situation.


And I don't necessarily disagree with any of that(although I have no idea if the ECHL or OHL is better for the development of a player in Verhaeghe's situation) but it strikes me that that's more or less how the ECHL has always been used.

I suppose the Leafs are in a somewhat unique situation as they seem to not feel any sort of instinct to put any young players on next year's NHL roster and that's creating a bit of a logjam like you say but you have to think that's a fairly temporary situation.
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Offline Frank E

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2015, 10:33:03 AM »
Figured this interview would be of interest here: http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/orlando-solar-bears/2015/7/23/9019313/kyle-dubas-discusses-prospect-development-philosophy

Features a bunch of information on the Orlando Solar Bears as well as more generally with respect to Leafs prospects.

Maybe I'm a little skeptical, but that seemed like pretty standard blah blah for an AGM.

I don't know if the ECHL is the place for 20 year old NHL prospects, as much as it would be convenient to have 2 pro-development tiers within the organization....I guess Orlando is really just an affiliate though.   

Offline herman

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2015, 09:41:47 AM »
More Dubas please:
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/10/16/kyle-dubas-interview-with-norman-james-transcript/

Quote
James: You’re up in the gondola in Ricoh, and you’re corresponding with Sheldon Keefe about the gameplan, do you see Toronto Marlies out there, or do you see future Toronto Maple Leafs?

Dubas: I think the one thing that we’ve really tried to do – I looked at our entire organization as a hockey program, like the way we did with Sault Ste. Marie, and it’s all the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey club, and the Marlies are a massive part of that program, of the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey program. The Marlies are a huge part of that. Player development is a huge part of that. Our sports science department is a huge part of the program. The goal of the program is to maximize the potential of every player every day. In the Marlies’ case, it’s maximizing the potential of the players in helping them become Maple Leafs every single day, and also ensuring they’ve mastered the system that the Maple Leafs are going to play. So when they do go up, they know they’ve reached their absolute peak at the American league level, and that we’ve armed them with all of the information and the education for them to step in with the Maple Leafs right away and make an impact, and save Mike Babcock and his staff the time in having to re-educate the players on their system. It’s trying to streamline that approach and do our part that the prospects in our organization are able to maximize their potential as quickly as they possibly can here in the American league and then transition seamlessly to the NHL, and for us to arm them with everything they need to do that.

James: Just two games in for your Marlies, Kyle. 2-0, but how encouraged are you by this group and what it may be able to accomplish?

Dubas: In the two games, I think in both of them we showed a lot of very good teams, the team has some very exciting players, we had the puck a lot. We outshot our opponents by almost double in the first two periods of both games. And then we showed some areas of much needed improvement. Everyone uses the term, “you have to learn to win;” in our case here, I think it was, in the two games last weekend, the fact that we allowed goals to the other team with their goalie pulled and didn’t close out the wins by continuing to play the way we had earlier in the game. We let some of the proven psychological effects of being up in a game kind of seep in and we got out shot in the third periods, both, and started to play very passive. Now it’s trying to keep the players on the attack for the full 60 minutes. If we can do that, I think we’ll have a lot of success here. Our goal with the Marlies is two fold: 1) it’s to ensure we are doing all that we can on and off the ice to maximize the potential of our players in both areas, as people and athletes, and 2) to make sure they have the Toronto Maple Leafs hockey system mastered so that when they do get called up, they’re able to integrate quickly. We feel that, if we can take care of those two process items, that the scoreboard will take care of itself and we’ll have success.

James: So you’re not only developing players for the Maple Leafs, but you’re acclimatizing them to a system that Mike Babcock will have them play once they go north of the Gardiner.

Dubas: Exactly. Obviously, we know all of the players here have different individual elements of their games that they need to work on, and we’ve got an excellent staff here both in terms of the coaching staff and our development staff led by Scott Pellerin, including Darryl Belfry, Barb Underhill and Mike Ellis, that can help the players on that side of it, and make sure that their individual skills, or the things that they’re lacking, are addressed and taken care of. I think, from the players’ perspective, we want them, when they’re called up, to have the confidence in knowing what Mike is going to expect of them in terms of systems play and position play. The onus is on us here in management and the coaching staff to make sure that the players clearly understand the way the Leafs are going to play, so that when they are called there isn't that fear that they’re going to be thrown into the deep end and not know what’s going on.

[...]

James: Before Lou was hired, you were representing the organization. Not necessarily making trades, but you were out there in the community. Questions were being directed to you. Mark Hunter, we know he ran that draft, and from my perspective that draft is going to prove to be incredible. But there’s a sense that, look, with Brendan Shanahan as the President, and Kyle Dubas and Mark Hunter, and the staff taking shape, things are alright, things are fine. This group together can move forward. And then Lou Lamoriello is hired. There’s a bit of a shock to some people who really want to accelerate the youth movement, not only on the ice but in the board room, and you are sort of the poster child of that. From your perspective, though, were you taken aback by that, or did you view that and accept that as a good thing, a positive thing? We think that you are destined for great things, but maybe you can slow it down a little bit and learn from somebody like Lou.

Dubas: There’s a couple of things. Brendan brought me here, and my trust in him is without question. When he said something is for the best – there’s been times with people I’ve worked with in the past, whether in the Soo or in different areas, if they say something I kind of question it. With Brendan, I never question anything that he’s done. He’s a very bright person, and certainly everything that he does is well thought out. My trust in him is absolutely great. So when he told me the night before Lou was hired that we were going to be bringing Lou in, I looked at it right away and how he explained it to me, from my perspective, it’s a great opportunity to learn from one of the best GMs in the history of the game — certainly, a GM that’s won three Stanley Cups and is in the Hall of Fame. From my perspective, I’m looking to learn and improve myself. To have Lou here every day, and Brendan and Mark and Mike Babcock, it gives me just a great opportunity to do that, selfishly. I’ve really enjoyed that. It’s a very different mix of personalities, which I also really enjoy. I don’t really like organizations where everybody is the same. I like when people are different and have their own unique traits and their own unique way of going about themselves. It gives me a great opportunity to learn. I think, from the organization’s standpoint, that will go on to help the players and help our entire staff; that they have a lot of people who have had different success help them here along the way.

Offline herman

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2016, 04:12:35 PM »
More Dubas!
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/02/16/kyle-dubas-on-player-development-tobias-lindberg-frederik-gauthier/

Quote
Tough night for the Leafs last night – a 7-2 loss. We’ll get to the Marlies and their terrific season in just a second. What was interesting to me – you watched Brendan Leipsic go and play in Vancouver and he was terrific; he had a goal. I know Nazem Kadri came back. Is this one of those things where, “hey, listen, we went with a full deck with our guys,” or is it, “hey, we’re going to start giving some guys with the Marlies a taste; a game here, a game there”?

Kyle Dubas: I think, in this case specifically, with the amount of injuries we’ve had and the number of players on the roster, when you’re trying to manage that situation, there are some specific CBA things and roster rules you have to abide by. When Nazem Kadri came back yesterday and played in a game, once he was cleared to play we had to not dress Brendan. It’s just the way that it goes. But I think, as it moves forward, we’ll see how everything goes towards February 29 and adjust from there. I’m sure you’ll see plenty of players from the Marlies get an opportunity. That’ll come at that time.

How do you guys plan on managing that? Do you expect a guy like William Nylander to be up here with the big club? Do you not want to mess with a good thing you have going with the Marlies having such a spectacular season?

Dubas: As it pertains to who comes up, there have been so many players down there that have had good seasons that it’s given us, frankly, quite a few options in terms of who can come up. A lot of it is governed by what position they play and what our needs are going to be with the Leafs at the time. As we get past the trade deadline and into the final month and a half of the NHL season, I think we’ll have a look at which of the players best suit the needs of the Leafs to help us have a competitive final month and a half or final 20 games or so.

What’s better for developing players: To be up with the big cub and get a taste of the NHL, or continue what they’re doing with the Marlies and be in that winning atmosphere?

Dubas: I think every player is different. In the mind of every single player, they want to be up and playing. I’m sure the players with the Marlies appreciate the season they’ve had and the success that the team has had and all that is fine and good, but every player as a kid dreams of being up in the NHL. I think they all appreciate the development they’re getting with the Marlies, but they all want to get up to the NHL as soon as they can. That’s their goal, and I think rightfully so. That’s what they’ve worked hard towards. In our mind, we’re sticking to our plan, we’re being patient with our players, they’re developing very well under Sheldon Keefe and his staff with the Marlies, but we want to reward them for that at some point – whether that’s at some point this year or next year, or really whenever they earn it in our eyes. We have a plan, we’re sticking to it. We’re going to be patient with our players but we do want to reward them as well. The Marlies have played 51 games, they’re 38-9-4, which is spectacular. 80 points, first in the division.

One of the things I wanted to ask you – it’s an interesting situation, with the Leafs obviously being what they are and struggling. We all understand the process and the plan. It’s to get those guys to develop. Let’s say you’re in a situation where the Marlies need a win. Obviously the deal is you still want to win no matter where you are. There’s a spot where you can maybe bring a Nylander up, but maybe the Marlies are playing. What do you do? Do you sacrifice that at all? Or do you kind of say, “development is more important at this point in time.” Or do you say, “you know what, we want to win that game, so let’s leave them down there”?

Dubas: With the Marlies – as the season has gone on, especially the last few weeks – there have been quite a few players who have gone up to the Maple Leafs to cover for the injury trouble we’ve been having, especially at the forward position. I think that the team has shown that we’ve got some good depth there. We’ve had players come up from Orlando and fill in just fine. We’ve had different guys step up throughout the year. We were missing William for the World Juniors and his subsequent injury, as well as Kasperi Kapanen. I think the team has shown that it has some good depth. Guys will step up and play fine. I think our primary goal has been player development. We believe that if we bring in the right players, and develop the right way, the wins will follow. For us, when players go up, it gives us a great chance to see what we have in terms of depth in our prospect pool, and, the players who have earned a recall from Orlando, what their potential is and what they’re made of. For us, we never operate – Sheldon and myself – in a way where we can’t have player X go up this game because we’re really going to need him. We kind of just say, “hey, if the players deserve it, that’s great.” Lou and I will discuss it with the rest of our staff. Players will go up and down, and with the Marlies we’re left to find a way, which makes it a fun challenge, an interesting one, one that’s been exciting throughout the season. You see different guys come up and step up luckily and thankfully at times, and the team just continues to roll, which has been fun.

At one point, the Marlies were the most successful pro franchise this year; had the best record of any professional franchise in all of hockey. Is that not correct?

Dubas: I think the Washington Capitals have held that for most of the year, but I know that the Marlies, in terms of winning percentage, have been up there pretty well. It’s been a fun year that way. We’re just trying to keep focusing on the games ahead. We’ve got a challenging week ahead here where our schedule gets considerably tougher, and we’re going to find out what the team is truly made of. We take on some of the toughest teams in the league outside of our division in the coming weeks, teams we don’t play all that often. It’s going to be a good test for us.

Part of the Dion trade was Tobias Lindberg, who I watched play – granted, it was all of one game last year – against Connor McDavid. You noticed him on the ice. I wanted to ask you – how important was he to the deal, in coming back for Dion Phaneuf? You’ve obviously seen him play. What do you make of this guy?

Dubas: It was very important in the deal, from our end of it. Obviously, in Ottawa’s case, they wanted Dion to help push them over the edge right now. In our case, we wanted chips that continue to help us build for the future. Tobias and the draft pick certainly do that for us. In Tobias’ case, he is a player that, because he played in Oshawa and the proximity to Toronto, our staff knew well. The staff and myself saw him play last year in Oshawa. Because he was with Ottawa, Ottawa’s rookie tournament team played against us, and [we saw him] in our exhibition against Ottawa, and also with Binghamton, who we’ve played quite a bit last year. On our staff we have DJ Smith, who coached Tobias last year in Oshawa. Of course, Mark Hunter has seen him play a tonne. We’re very familiar with him. We’re very excited to have him. I think he’s had some success against our teams, which always sticks out, but if you watch more than that and his other games, he’s a big winger with skill and competitiveness that we’re happy to acquire. He struggled in the first game on Saturday against St. John’s and then was outstanding on Sunday in the final game of that road trip. We think, after some time to adjust to the way that we play and the way that we operate, we’re excited for his potential and excited for the type of player he could become for us for sure.

We all talk about Nylander and Marner and Kapanen, but how is the first round pick in 2013 coming along – Frederik Gauthier? It’s no fault of his own, but he’s the guy we kind of just don’t talk about when it comes to the upper echelon prospects of the Toronto Maple Leafs. How is his development going down with the Marlies?

Dubas: Frederik, he doesn’t have the same offensive pedigree as the players you’ve previously mentioned, but with us with the Marlies, he’s played a massive role. His development – I think of anybody on the team, I’ve been most impressed with the job that Sheldon and his staff [have done], and then Scott Pellerin and our player development staff – largely Barb Underhill, who works on the skating of our players extensively each day – the job that she has done. His skating has improved so significantly especially with the puck. He takes on a lot of very difficult minutes for the Marlies. He’s the primary penalty killer on the team and takes on a lot of defensive assignments, but he’s been able to because of the improvements in his skating to drive the puck up the ice and play on offense a lot more. It’s a process with Fred because I think people look at him and don’t see the same offensive production you see out of the other players you mentioned, but he has a specific skillset that we value and we feel we’ll need as an organization. So far this season, he’s had an injury that cost him some time, but he’s come back strong and we’ve been very happy with his play and his contributions to the team. He’s been a key player for us.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2016, 04:14:39 PM »
Interesting point about Leipsic that I hadn't heard. Says that he couldn't play in last nights game because of a CBA/roster thing. I'm guessing that they must have recalled him on an emergency basis and when Kadri and Grabner were both healthy enough to play it meant that he wasn't eligible to suit up.

Also, Leipsic's been sent back down to the Marlies too.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2016, 04:18:58 PM »

The Gauthier stuff is interesting. I think most of us assumed he'd spend another year with the Marlies but I really wonder if he won't also be with the big club next year.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2016, 04:22:45 PM »

The Gauthier stuff is interesting. I think most of us assumed he'd spend another year with the Marlies but I really wonder if he won't also be with the big club next year.

I was thinking of that too. Would all depend obviously on which spots are open where but I wouldn't mind giving him a legit chance at the 4C spot against Froese at least.

Offline herman

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2016, 04:26:48 PM »
Interesting point about Leipsic that I hadn't heard. Says that he couldn't play in last nights game because of a CBA/roster thing. I'm guessing that they must have recalled him on an emergency basis and when Kadri and Grabner were both healthy enough to play it meant that he wasn't eligible to suit up.

Also, Leipsic's been sent back down to the Marlies too.

Because of Lou's loose-lips policy, I've found we've seen baffling decisions and tended to assume the worst; e.g. Corrado, Nylander, Leipsic... but they've always been revealed to be solid reasons after the fact.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2016, 04:29:05 PM »
Because of Lou's loose-lips policy, I've found we've seen baffling decisions and tended to assume the worst; e.g. Corrado, Nylander, Leipsic... but they've always been revealed to be solid reasons after the fact.

So you're saying that Byron Froese is actually from the Make a Wish Foundation?

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Re: Kyle Dubas discussing prospect philosophy
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2016, 04:29:05 PM »