Author Topic: Ranking Prospects  (Read 27510 times)

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Offline pmrules

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2015, 10:38:14 AM »
More from Pronman, he released his annual top-100 drafted prospects list this morning, here's how the Leafs prospects fared:

4) Marner
6) Nylander
29) Kapanen
39) Bracco
72) Brown
77) Johnson
84) Harrington
97) Leipsic

I'm sure someone else online will do the math, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the Leafs have the most amount of prospects in this list.

I don't quite understand how Bracco makes the list at a high ranking, yet Dermott doesn't? 

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2015, 10:52:31 AM »
I don't quite understand how Bracco makes the list at a high ranking, yet Dermott doesn't? 

Pronman had Bracco ranked 16th and Dermott 95th in his pre-draft rankings. The scouting services were all pretty split on those two. I think ISS, FC, and Sportsnet had Bracco going ahead and McKeens, CS, and TSN had Dermott.

Generally speaking you'll never find a true consensus for prospects after the top crop of the guys you're looking at.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 10:54:15 AM by CarltonTheBear »

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2015, 10:57:02 AM »
I don't quite understand how Bracco makes the list at a high ranking, yet Dermott doesn't? 

Forwards are sexier.

More from Pronman, he released his annual top-100 drafted prospects list this morning, here's how the Leafs prospects fared:

4) Marner
6) Nylander
29) Kapanen
39) Bracco
72) Brown
77) Johnson
84) Harrington
97) Leipsic

I'm sure someone else online will do the math, but I have a sneaking suspicion that the Leafs have the most amount of prospects in this list.

Thanks, CarltonTheBear!

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2015, 10:57:58 AM »
When PPP compiled the rankings of all the big scouting services and averaged our the prospects rankings they had Bracco listed 31st and Dermott 47th. It's generally considered that Bracco slid a bit in the draft and that the Leafs reached a bit for Dermott.

Offline pmrules

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2015, 11:12:43 AM »
I don't quite understand how Bracco makes the list at a high ranking, yet Dermott doesn't? 

Pronman had Bracco ranked 16th and Dermott 95th in his pre-draft rankings. The scouting services were all pretty split on those two. I think ISS, FC, and Sportsnet had Bracco going ahead and McKeens, CS, and TSN had Dermott.

So, does  this ranking make you question whether Dermott was the right pick then at 34?  What did Shanny/Hunter see in him that others didn't?  I only ask because Pronman's opinion is quite generally a good opinion and he doesn't seem to be a fan of Dermott. 

I only ask because I'm still somewhat miffed at the 2nd trade down - not greatly miffed...just somewhat miffed.  The first trade down was potentially great as it could have ultimately netted us Merkley/Roy at 29 and Bracco at 61.   Instead we traded Merkley/Roy for 34 and 68 (Dermott and Dzerkials).  I can understand if the Leafs all felt that Merkley=Roy=Dermott, then yes, of course you do the deal as Dzerkials is a bonus.  But I'm not sure based on the rankings if that equation is correct.

Do you know where Merkley/Roy ended up in Pronman's rankings - I don't have access?   

Offline Highlander

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2015, 11:25:57 AM »
Does anyone know how many of the top 100 picks make it to the NHL eventually on an average basis?
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2015, 11:37:37 AM »
So, does  this ranking make you question whether Dermott was the right pick then at 34?  What did Shanny/Hunter see in him that others didn't?  I only ask because Pronman's opinion is quite generally a good opinion and he doesn't seem to be a fan of Dermott. 

Do you know where Merkley/Roy ended up in Pronman's rankings - I don't have access?   

At the time I didn't mind the 2nd trade-down but yeah Dermott wouldn't have been the guy I picked, just based on what I've read about the draft. Since then though I've sort of learned to give Hunter & Dubas the benefit of the doubt. They clearly had a plan in regards to how many times they wanted to pick and who they wanted to pick. I think that everyone knows that I was on #TeamSprong for picks in that area and while I still think Marner/Sprong/Bracco would have been freaking amazing I'll live with what we've got.

The first trade down was potentially great as it could have ultimately netted us Merkley/Roy at 29 and Bracco at 61.   Instead we traded Merkley/Roy for 34 and 68 (Dermott and Dzerkials).  I can understand if the Leafs all felt that Merkley=Roy=Dermott, then yes, of course you do the deal as Dzerkials is a bonus.  But I'm not sure based on the rankings if that equation is correct.

I don't know if I'd look at the equation exactly like that. It's more like would you have rather picked one guy with a 43% chance of becoming a regular NHL player or had two draft selections that that each carried a 32-33% of becoming regular NHL players (values from Scott Cullen). Given what we know about Dubas I'm sure that's how he looked at it.

Do you know where Merkley/Roy ended up in Pronman's rankings - I don't have access?

Merkley was 44th and Roy 48th. Dermott was included as an honourable mention.

Offline pmrules

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2015, 11:51:21 AM »
So, does  this ranking make you question whether Dermott was the right pick then at 34?  What did Shanny/Hunter see in him that others didn't?  I only ask because Pronman's opinion is quite generally a good opinion and he doesn't seem to be a fan of Dermott. 

Do you know where Merkley/Roy ended up in Pronman's rankings - I don't have access?   

At the time I didn't mind the 2nd trade-down but yeah Dermott wouldn't have been the guy I picked, just based on what I've read about the draft. Since then though I've sort of learned to give Hunter & Dubas the benefit of the doubt. They clearly had a plan in regards to how many times they wanted to pick and who they wanted to pick. I think that everyone knows that I was on #TeamSprong for picks in that area and while I still think Marner/Sprong/Bracco would have been freaking amazing I'll live with what we've got.

That's kind of where I'm at.  I'll live with Dermott and Dzerkials, but will always wonder what if, depending on how Merkley and Roy perform. (And I guess You'd be doing the same with Sprong). 

Quote
The first trade down was potentially great as it could have ultimately netted us Merkley/Roy at 29 and Bracco at 61.   Instead we traded Merkley/Roy for 34 and 68 (Dermott and Dzerkials).  I can understand if the Leafs all felt that Merkley=Roy=Dermott, then yes, of course you do the deal as Dzerkials is a bonus.  But I'm not sure based on the rankings if that equation is correct.

I don't know if I'd look at the equation exactly like that. It's more like would you have rather picked one guy with a 43% chance of becoming a regular NHL player or had two draft selections that that each carried a 32-33% of becoming regular NHL players (values from Scott Cullen). Given what we know about Dubas I'm sure that's how he looked at it.

Yes...of course they obviously feel that the chances of Dermott + Dzerkials > Merkley or Roy were pretty high, so that's why they probably did the deal. 

Quote
Do you know where Merkley/Roy ended up in Pronman's rankings - I don't have access?

Merkley was 44th and Roy 48th. Dermott was included as an honourable mention.

Hmm...this doesn't help with my being miffed at the 2nd trade down - quality prospects were obviously available at 29.  I personally haven't seen any of these guys play, so I value a guy like Pronman's opinion a lot, so let's hope that Dermott plus Dzerkials don't let us down.   
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 11:56:45 AM by pmrules »

Offline herman

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2015, 02:57:11 PM »
Pronman's full list here: https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/3guroo/can_someone_post_pronmans_new_rankings_released/

Quote
4. Mitch Marner, C, Toronto Maple Leafs Age: 18 | Ht: 5-11 | Wt: 161 | 2014-15 team: London (OHL) Previous ranking: Not eligible
Marner was absolutely dominant offensively in the OHL, generating grade-A scoring chances with consistency and was among the top OHL scorers for most of the season. His puck skills, vision and creativity are elite. Marner skates very well, and while he's not the biggest or bulkiest player, he works hard and his hockey IQ somewhat translates to his defense too. There is some risk on his physical progression, but he also has the potential to be an elite scorer in the NHL.

6. William Nylander, LW, Toronto Maple Leafs Age: 19 | Ht: 5-11 | Wt: 192 | 2014-15 team: Toronto (AHL) Previous ranking: 4
After a bit of a bumpy draft season, Nylander had a fantastic 18-year-old season. His production in the SHL was among the very best by a player his age in recent memory -- he was very good at the World Juniors and in the AHL. He's a dynamic puck-carrying threat with the speed, skill and vision to make very tough offensive plays. His all-around play still has to come, but teams try to get him the puck when he's on the ice because he keeps control away from the opposition.

Offline WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2015, 03:04:08 PM »
All Leafs prospects included are as follows.

Marner 4
Nylander 6
Kapanen 29
Bracco 39
Brown 72
Andreas Johnson 77
Scott Harrington 84
Brendan Leipsic 97 
HM Travis Dermott.

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2015, 05:34:43 PM »

I don't quite understand how Bracco makes the list at a high ranking, yet Dermott doesn't? 

Pronman had Bracco ranked 16th and Dermott 95th in his pre-draft rankings. The scouting services were all pretty split on those two. I think ISS, FC, and Sportsnet had Bracco going ahead and McKeens, CS, and TSN had Dermott.

So, does  this ranking make you question whether Dermott was the right pick then at 34?  What did Shanny/Hunter see in him that others didn't?  I only ask because Pronman's opinion is quite generally a good opinion and he doesn't seem to be a fan of Dermott. 

I only ask because I'm still somewhat miffed at the 2nd trade down - not greatly miffed...just somewhat miffed.  The first trade down was potentially great as it could have ultimately netted us Merkley/Roy at 29 and Bracco at 61.   Instead we traded Merkley/Roy for 34 and 68 (Dermott and Dzerkials).  I can understand if the Leafs all felt that Merkley=Roy=Dermott, then yes, of course you do the deal as Dzerkials is a bonus.  But I'm not sure based on the rankings if that equation is correct.

Do you know where Merkley/Roy ended up in Pronman's rankings - I don't have access?

You're not allowed to ask that question. I can assure you out of personal experience.

Offline Tigger

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2015, 11:07:45 PM »
8 prospects in Pronman's top 100? That's a new feeling.
"My father was born shortly after the Wright Brothers" Charlie Duke

Offline Heroic Shrimp

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2015, 11:43:50 PM »
8 prospects in Pronman's top 100? That's a new feeling.

Not to mention 2 in the top 6.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2015, 12:29:51 AM »
You're not allowed to ask that question. I can assure you out of personal experience.

Or, rather, if you do ask the question try to avoid doing it while weeping hysterically, pounding your fists against the ground and proclaiming that it's ruined hockey forever.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2015, 09:25:31 AM »

You're not allowed to ask that question. I can assure you out of personal experience.

Or, rather, if you do ask the question try to avoid doing it while weeping hysterically, pounding your fists against the ground and proclaiming that it's ruined hockey forever.

I don't recall Liz Taylor saying that in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. "

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Re: Ranking Prospects
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2015, 09:25:31 AM »