Author Topic: Florida interested in Kessel  (Read 14765 times)

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Offline Potvin29

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2015, 02:25:00 PM »
George Richards is Panthers writer for Miami Herald.

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@jesselangevin: are @FlaPanthers exploring options/ having conversations to acquire Kessel? #TSN”

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@GeorgeRichards

In my talks w/ owner, I would say no

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2015, 02:27:01 PM »
I agree. I'm just talking equal value. I'd rather not be fleeced on a deal for Kessel. If they aren't even willing to consider one of their young stars, then whats the point, really?

The point is that you're starting from scratch and you need to turn the assets on the team into the best possible return. That doesn't mean Florida necessarily but there will come a point where the Leafs will have to go with the best offer, whatever it is.

Sure, but the Leafs can also afford to wait until the right offer comes. They don't need to sell to the highest bidder this instant, no matter what the return.

But if this draft is as strong as is being suggested, they really shouldn't wait.  The point is to stockpile as many 1st and 2nd round picks as possible prior to the draft.  The other thing coming back in any Kessel deal is $8 million in cap space, and an (addition by subtraction) nitro booster for the tank.

Personally, I'd rather get a sure fire NHLer, somewhere in a deal for Kessel. Another pick that is close to bottom of the first round doesn't guarantee anything in return for the purest sniper this team has ever had (who is still in the prime of his career). I think the return needs to include a young gun along with a good pick.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 02:29:19 PM by RedLeaf »
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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2015, 02:32:54 PM »
I agree. I'm just talking equal value. I'd rather not be fleeced on a deal for Kessel. If they aren't even willing to consider one of their young stars, then whats the point, really?

The point is that you're starting from scratch and you need to turn the assets on the team into the best possible return. That doesn't mean Florida necessarily but there will come a point where the Leafs will have to go with the best offer, whatever it is.

Sure, but the Leafs can also afford to wait until the right offer comes. They don't need to sell to the highest bidder this instant, no matter what the return.

Right. That's why I said "will come a point". I don't know when that is, it might be at the draft, but I don't think you want to go into next year with Kessel still on the team. I want the best realistic return for Kessel but the rebuild is more important than just what you get for him.

With Kessel being the biggest asset you have to really kick off the rebuild, it should be essential to get a substantial return, even if it means holding off on a trade until next season sometime, or longer if necessary. If the rebuild is a 3-5 year process, than there is no rush to rid yourself of Kessel based on an artificial timeline.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 02:38:55 PM by RedLeaf »
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #33 on: February 16, 2015, 02:42:06 PM »
With Kessel being the biggest asset you have to really kick off the rebuild, it should be essential to get a substantial return, even if it means holding off on a trade until next season sometime. If the rebuild is a 3-5 year process, than there is no rush to rid yourself of Kessel based on an artificial timeline.

A rebuild is a 5 year process ideally. Part of that process is having top picks, as in top 3, and developing those players. Keeping all-stars around waiting for unrealistic returns and finishing with the 5th or 6th overall pick is how you turn into the Blue Jackets and their 10 years of nothing. The Leafs need to get bad, legit bad, and keeping Kessel delays that process.

Again, it's not about being hasty, it's about taking a legitimate read of the market. If Nonis calls around and the best offer isn't one that meets your standards then, well, that's a sign that you might be over estimating Kessel's value. There's no guarantee offers will get better as time goes on and there's a very real risk that the offers will get worse.
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Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2015, 02:46:10 PM »
With Kessel being the biggest asset you have to really kick off the rebuild, it should be essential to get a substantial return, even if it means holding off on a trade until next season sometime. If the rebuild is a 3-5 year process, than there is no rush to rid yourself of Kessel based on an artificial timeline.

A rebuild is a 5 year process ideally. Part of that process is having top picks, as in top 3, and developing those players. Keeping all-stars around waiting for unrealistic returns and finishing with the 5th or 6th overall pick is how you turn into the Blue Jackets and their 10 years of nothing. The Leafs need to get bad, legit bad, and keeping Kessel delays that process.

Again, it's not about being hasty, it's about taking a legitimate read of the market. If Nonis calls around and the best offer isn't one that meets your standards then, well, that's a sign that you might be over estimating Kessel's value. There's no guarantee offers will get better as time goes on and there's a very real risk that the offers will get worse.

See Roberto Luongo trade from Canucks to Florida. 
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Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2015, 02:50:56 PM »
George Richards is Panthers writer for Miami Herald.

Quote
@jesselangevin: are @FlaPanthers exploring options/ having conversations to acquire Kessel? #TSN”

Quote
@GeorgeRichards

In my talks w/ owner, I would say no

Could be accurate, not sure the owner of the team would go spilling all their plans to a reporter though (especially on-the-record).

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2015, 02:55:23 PM »
George Richards is Panthers writer for Miami Herald.

Quote
@jesselangevin: are @FlaPanthers exploring options/ having conversations to acquire Kessel? #TSN”

Quote
@GeorgeRichards

In my talks w/ owner, I would say no

Could be accurate, not sure the owner of the team would go spilling all their plans to a reporter though (especially on-the-record).

At least not to another one other than the beat reporter from the first post in this thread that is! 

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2015, 03:02:34 PM »
At least not to another one other than the beat reporter from the first post in this thread that is! 

Sure, but leaks like that don't usually come from the team owner of all people.

Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2015, 03:08:54 PM »
With Kessel being the biggest asset you have to really kick off the rebuild, it should be essential to get a substantial return, even if it means holding off on a trade until next season sometime. If the rebuild is a 3-5 year process, than there is no rush to rid yourself of Kessel based on an artificial timeline.

A rebuild is a 5 year process ideally. Part of that process is having top picks, as in top 3, and developing those players. Keeping all-stars around waiting for unrealistic returns and finishing with the 5th or 6th overall pick is how you turn into the Blue Jackets and their 10 years of nothing. The Leafs need to get bad, legit bad, and keeping Kessel delays that process.

Again, it's not about being hasty, it's about taking a legitimate read of the market. If Nonis calls around and the best offer isn't one that meets your standards then, well, that's a sign that you might be over estimating Kessel's value. There's no guarantee offers will get better as time goes on and there's a very real risk that the offers will get worse.

There's also a risk that Kessel will get worse.  How many more summers can he go without skating before he starts to slow?  He could turn into Kyle Wellwood.   ::)
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2015, 03:14:35 PM »
There's also a risk that Kessel will get worse.  How many more summers can he go without skating before he starts to slow?  He could turn into Kyle Wellwood.   ::)

I don't know how much of that is sarcastic but I wasn't saying that I thought he might get significantly worse, just that he, like all players, is at danger every game from suffering a significant injury. That's not the biggest concern in the world but it is something to consider.
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Online RedLeaf

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2015, 03:43:26 PM »
There's also a risk that Kessel will get worse.  How many more summers can he go without skating before he starts to slow?  He could turn into Kyle Wellwood.   ::)

I don't know how much of that is sarcastic but I wasn't saying that I thought he might get significantly worse, just that he, like all players, is at danger every game from suffering a significant injury. That's not the biggest concern in the world but it is something to consider.

l guess if you want to get  the lowest possible return on Kessel you trade him now, when he has looked his absolute worse since coming to the Leafs. I don't think you get maximum value on him until he at least returns to form.

I would take the gamble and hold off trading him until he returns to the Kessel that plays like one of the top goal scorers in the league. If you are scouting him lately , you certainly are not seeing that side of his game right now.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 03:55:32 PM by RedLeaf »
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2015, 03:47:30 PM »
l guess if you want to get  the lowest possible return on Kessel you trade him now, when he has looked his absolute worse since coming to the Leafs. I don't think you get maximum value on him until he at least returns to form.

If a team is trading for Kessel with 7 years left on his deal they're not going to be overly swayed by a bad stretch of games from him. They know his value. Even if not, if he were the kind of player where a bad 15+ game stretch would significantly affect his value then to be honest it really cuts down your idea that he's worth a ton to begin with. Teams aren't stupid. They know what he does.
 
But with all that said, nobody is saying he needs to be dealt immediately. I personally think the summer is the best time for a major trade like that and the draft especially.
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Offline Chev-boyar-sky

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2015, 04:03:48 PM »
I agree. I'm just talking equal value. I'd rather not be fleeced on a deal for Kessel. If they aren't even willing to consider one of their young stars, then whats the point, really?

The point is that you're starting from scratch and you need to turn the assets on the team into the best possible return. That doesn't mean Florida necessarily but there will come a point where the Leafs will have to go with the best offer, whatever it is.

Sure, but the Leafs can also afford to wait until the right offer comes. They don't need to sell to the highest bidder this instant, no matter what the return.

But if this draft is as strong as is being suggested, they really shouldn't wait.  The point is to stockpile as many 1st and 2nd round picks as possible prior to the draft.  The other thing coming back in any Kessel deal is $8 million in cap space, and an (addition by subtraction) nitro booster for the tank.

The more I think about it (not even that long) I'm starting to agree with this line of thinking.

Kessel was acquired for two 1sts and a 2nd. A 1st this year, a good prospect like Huberdeau or Bjugstad (who were first rounders), 8M in cap space and our own pick getting better by subtraction this year and next are all reasons to make the deal sooner rather than later. I'd look to add a 2nd as well.

1st, 2nd, Bjugstad/Huberdeau is basically what we traded for Kessel (before the 1st became the #2 overall). That's probably about the best we'll do.

EDIT: Meant to quote Nik's post about a 5 year re-build and Columbus going nowhere for 10.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 04:07:24 PM by Chev-boyar-sky »

Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2015, 04:30:54 PM »
There's also a risk that Kessel will get worse.  How many more summers can he go without skating before he starts to slow?  He could turn into Kyle Wellwood.   ::)

I don't know how much of that is sarcastic but I wasn't saying that I thought he might get significantly worse, just that he, like all players, is at danger every game from suffering a significant injury. That's not the biggest concern in the world but it is something to consider.

I was being a little sarcastic, but not toward you.  I really think there will come a time when Kessel's lack of conditioning will catch up with him and his production and speed will start to decline.  And I think that will happen sooner than later, and before the Leafs are ready to contend.  And your point about the potential of injury is a good one.  I would really hate to look back and see a lost opportunity to gather assets this year, given that he can likely fetch a good return.  And the cap space doesn't hurt either.
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Online RedLeaf

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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2015, 04:32:21 PM »
l guess if you want to get  the lowest possible return on Kessel you trade him now, when he has looked his absolute worse since coming to the Leafs. I don't think you get maximum value on him until he at least returns to form.

If a team is trading for Kessel with 7 years left on his deal they're not going to be overly swayed by a bad stretch of games from him. They know his value. Even if not, if he were the kind of player where a bad 15+ game stretch would significantly affect his value then to be honest it really cuts down your idea that he's worth a ton to begin with. Teams aren't stupid. They know what he does.
 
But with all that said, nobody is saying he needs to be dealt immediately. I personally think the summer is the best time for a major trade like that and the draft especially.

Even smart GMs have short term memory sometimes
« Last Edit: February 16, 2015, 04:34:02 PM by RedLeaf »
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Re: Florida interested in Kessel
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2015, 04:32:21 PM »