Author Topic: Franson at the deadline  (Read 8135 times)

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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2015, 02:09:14 PM »
Soon to be 28 year old having career season - move him when his value is highest.

Yup, and, while his skating has improved a little from last season (largely due to not dealing with suspected lingering injury issues), it's still not good and it's not going to get better as he gets older. It's been suggested by Dreger that he may be looking for a 7 year deal, and that's just not something the Leafs should even be contemplating again.

Addendum.

Offline Boston Leaf

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2015, 02:11:50 PM »
Id say if someone offers a 2nd round pick.. take it and run..someone will pay him crazy money being the right handed shot and not much out there for UFA's (yes boychuck will be big too)..so better than losing him

Even harder to find a good player in the second round. Your basically tossing away a real good defenseman, that a lot of teams will want, for a one in 10 shot of someone just as good or better.

so if a team wants to pay him 5.5 a year for 6 or 7 years would you want to match that or up it? We cannot afford what he will be looking for.. Unless I am missing something. He is a UFA so it makes his trade value a little lower since he is basically a rental

Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2015, 02:14:27 PM »
Let's see here....

Phaneuf (is unfairly criticized but) good.
Franson (is suddenly now) good.
Rielly (will be) good.
Gardiner (has all the tools to be) good.
Polak (is tough as a boot, which is) good.

So, why is our defense (not) good?

Online bustaheims

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2015, 02:19:30 PM »
Let's see here....

Phaneuf (is unfairly criticized but) good.
Franson (is suddenly now) good.
Rielly (will be) good.
Gardiner (has all the tools to be) good.
Polak (is tough as a boot, which is) good.

So, why is our defense (not) good?

Because, outside of the systemic/strategic issues, defence is a team game, and the Leafs' forwards haven't been particularly helpful.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline RedLeaf

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2015, 02:20:06 PM »
Id say if someone offers a 2nd round pick.. take it and run..someone will pay him crazy money being the right handed shot and not much out there for UFA's (yes boychuck will be big too)..so better than losing him

Even harder to find a good player in the second round. Your basically tossing away a real good defenseman, that a lot of teams will want, for a one in 10 shot of someone just as good or better.

so if a team wants to pay him 5.5 a year for 6 or 7 years would you want to match that or up it? We cannot afford what he will be looking for.. Unless I am missing something. He is a UFA so it makes his trade value a little lower since he is basically a rental

I'm not criticizing you. I'm just saying I don't trust they can get a decent return through the draft. Which makes me think that they'll go the prospect route instead. Still a pretty big gamble to trade away a sure thing for an unknown commodity, but it may take a little of the guess work out of the equation I suppose.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 02:21:41 PM by RedLeaf »
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Offline Boston Leaf

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #20 on: January 23, 2015, 02:22:15 PM »
Id say if someone offers a 2nd round pick.. take it and run..someone will pay him crazy money being the right handed shot and not much out there for UFA's (yes boychuck will be big too)..so better than losing him

Even harder to find a good player in the second round. Your basically tossing away a real good defenseman, that a lot of teams will want, for a one in 10 shot of someone just as good or better.

so if a team wants to pay him 5.5 a year for 6 or 7 years would you want to match that or up it? We cannot afford what he will be looking for.. Unless I am missing something. He is a UFA so it makes his trade value a little lower since he is basically a rental

I'm not criticizing you. I'm just saying I don't trust they can get a decent return through the draft. Which makes me think that they'll go the prospect route instead. Still a pretty big gamble to trade away a sure thing for an unknown commodity, but it may take a little of the guess out of the equation I suppose.

oh I didn't take it as criticism at all. everyone has their opinions. I would be happy with Franson 4 years at 4 or so. But we jsut seem to ahve enough bad contracts and paying him anything crazy will be just another to set us back. The state we are in Id rather let a kid play for a ton less the money..

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2015, 02:25:31 PM »
Let's see here....

Phaneuf (is unfairly criticized but) good.
Franson (is suddenly now) good.
Rielly (will be) good.
Gardiner (has all the tools to be) good.
Polak (is tough as a boot, which is) good.

So, why is our defense (not) good?


I think a very little-talked about situation this season has been the fact that Roman Polak leads the Leafs in even-strength ice-time. That's kind of a weird position for our 5th best defenceman to be in.

Aside from that, a lot of people have admitted that Gardiner hasn't had a very strong season, especially pre-coaching change. I also think we have to realize that Rielly is still pretty young and his defensive game is still a work in progress.

Online bustaheims

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2015, 02:26:13 PM »
Even harder to find a good player in the second round. Your basically tossing away a real good defenseman, that a lot of teams will want, for a one in 10 shot of someone just as good or better.

The question you really need to be asking is whether or not Franson will be worth ~$6M per for 6 or 7 seasons - because, that's the type of contract he'll get on the open market, and it's unlikely he'll take much of a discount to stay here. You also have to question whether that's worth it for the Leafs. I don't think he will be, nor do I think it's a move the Leafs should be making at this stage, regardless. On a contending team, at most, he's a 2nd pairing defenceman, and that's not the type of player that a smart team commits big money or term to. It's time for the Leafs to start being a smart team. On top of that, this year is a very deep draft. If the return is a 1st round pick, there's a very good chance that player turns out to be better than Franson. For a player that you're not going to hang on to, I take that chance over the type of prospects that are going to be available in a trade.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 02:27:45 PM by bustaheims »
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Offline Potvin29

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2015, 02:28:20 PM »
Let's see here....

Phaneuf (is unfairly criticized but) good.
Franson (is suddenly now) good.
Rielly (will be) good.
Gardiner (has all the tools to be) good.
Polak (is tough as a boot, which is) good.

So, why is our defense (not) good?


I think a very little-talked about situation this season has been the fact that Roman Polak leads the Leafs in even-strength ice-time. That's kind of a weird position for our 5th best defenceman to be in.

Aside from that, a lot of people have admitted that Gardiner hasn't had a very strong season, especially pre-coaching change. I also think we have to realize that Rielly is still pretty young and his defensive game is still a work in progress.

Yeah even on that list, 2 of them are in the 'shown the tools to be' or 'will be' good, aka haven't been consistently good or aren't there yet.

Online CarltonTheBear

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2015, 02:53:43 PM »
Let's see here....

Phaneuf (is unfairly criticized but) good
Franson (is suddenly now) good.
Rielly (will be) good.
Gardiner (has all the tools to be) good.
Polak (is tough as a boot, which is) good.

So, why is our defense (not) good?


Also I don't think the group of people who are big fans of both Phaneuf AND Franson is very large. In most cases it's one or the other. So you can paint the defence that way but I think it's closer to 4 out of those 5 having struggles in some way.

Phaneuf OR Franson good
Phaneuf OR Franson not good enough
Rielly young and learning
Gardiner inconsistent
Polak playing too much
« Last Edit: January 23, 2015, 02:55:17 PM by CarltonTheBear »

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2015, 03:57:44 PM »
Id say if someone offers a 2nd round pick.. take it and run..someone will pay him crazy money being the right handed shot and not much out there for UFA's (yes boychuck will be big too)..so better than losing him

Even harder to find a good player in the second round. Your basically tossing away a real good defenseman, that a lot of teams will want, for a one in 10 shot of someone just as good or better.

But they'd be tossing away someone who may be leaving anyway if they can't agree on a good contract. I think it's best to get some assets for him.

Offline LuncheonMeat

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2015, 04:45:43 PM »
Even harder to find a good player in the second round. Your basically tossing away a real good defenseman, that a lot of teams will want, for a one in 10 shot of someone just as good or better.

The question you really need to be asking is whether or not Franson will be worth ~$6M per for 6 or 7 seasons - because, that's the type of contract he'll get on the open market, and it's unlikely he'll take much of a discount to stay here. You also have to question whether that's worth it for the Leafs. I don't think he will be, nor do I think it's a move the Leafs should be making at this stage, regardless. On a contending team, at most, he's a 2nd pairing defenceman, and that's not the type of player that a smart team commits big money or term to. It's time for the Leafs to start being a smart team. On top of that, this year is a very deep draft. If the return is a 1st round pick, there's a very good chance that player turns out to be better than Franson. For a player that you're not going to hang on to, I take that chance over the type of prospects that are going to be available in a trade.

Good points.

If the Leafs sign Franson to big $$ and term, they likely have to toss one or more of Phaneuf, Kessel, JVR or Gardiner since they're so tight to the cap, and need to re-sign some important players.  Not to mention, by the time the Leafs are contending Franson will be even slower and likely less productive, on a big contract.

Shanahan has stated he wants to build this team through the draft and develop players the proper way.  Given that we have one pick in the first 2 rounds, I really think the Leafs need to move guys like Franson while they can fetch something of value (picks/prospects AND cap space).
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Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #27 on: January 25, 2015, 12:54:24 PM »
From tsn.ca:

Flying South?

The Dallas Stars have some veteran pending UFA players that they may consider moving at the trade deadline, but could the team's bigger priority be adding a Toronto Maple Leaf to its blue line?

Mike Heika of the Dallas Morning News reported Sunday that while the likes of Erik Cole and Shawn Horcoff could be on the way out, the team might also want to bolster its back end for a playoff run this season.

Listed amongst possible trade targets that might appeal to the Stars are pending UFA Cody Franson as well as Leafs captain Dion Phaneuf.

Franson's point production and right-hand shot make him a coveted addition, according to Heika, who had the following to say of Phaneuf: "Toronto’s captain has six years left on a contract extension that averages $7 million and would require a lot in return, so you have to be sold on the 29-year-old. But he’s a big (6-3, 218) lefty who might be the No. 1 defenceman the team craves."


http://www.tsn.ca/countdown-to-tradecentre-stars-eyeing-leafs-d-1.191388

Clickbait?  Maybe, but at least it came from a Dallas scribe.

Offline Highlander

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2015, 01:13:57 PM »
Man if they could move the Pylon and keep Cody that would be the best of both worlds. Some have said Cody would wear the C better than the P.  What a dream to get rid of him, perhaps they could use Clarkson too. After all he was our best player (in the last game)
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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2015, 02:37:37 PM »
At this point -- and I'll admit it took me awhile to get there -- I'd be fine moving out both Franson and Phaneuf.

My only hesitation is to see if Horachek can use Phaneuf more effectively and take advantage of his skills.

TMLfans.ca

Re: Franson at the deadline
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2015, 02:37:37 PM »