Author Topic: General Leafs Rumour Updates...  (Read 25811 times)

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Offline AvroArrow

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2014, 08:24:04 PM »
At this point, I'm not adverse to moving Phaneuf for a sub-par package....

Offline Andy

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2014, 09:14:54 PM »
If Eric Staal is really being dangled for Phaneuf, why the hell wouldn't that happen in a heartbeat?

Because he's a guy with a $8.25M cap hit that struggled last season and really hasn't produced well enough to have the 7th biggest cap hit in the league. I mean, most of his career he's been a 70-75 point guy. That's great and something the Leafs could use, but, not for that cap hit and not when it depletes an area they need to improve. Part of the value in trading Phaneuf is in creating cap space, not taking away more of it.

Staal's total cap-hit is 16.5 million while Phaneuf's is 49. Besides, it's an extra 1.25 million each year for the next two years which is significantly cheaper than keeping Phaneuf and adding someone along the lines of a Stastny or even Bolland. That contract is a killer and if it can be unloaded while also picking up a good-great piece, I am all for it.

Offline RedLeaf

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2014, 09:16:36 PM »
If Eric Staal is really being dangled for Phaneuf, why the hell wouldn't that happen in a heartbeat?

Because he's a guy with a $8.25M cap hit that struggled last season and really hasn't produced well enough to have the 7th biggest cap hit in the league. I mean, most of his career he's been a 70-75 point guy. That's great and something the Leafs could use, but, not for that cap hit and not when it depletes an area they need to improve. Part of the value in trading Phaneuf is in creating cap space, not taking away more of it.

Well. Ok. I didn't realize his cap hit was that high. But still, if the Leafs want a real good centremen the price is going to be steep. I mean, there are only so many options available. I don't think we're going to find a perfect fit.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 09:18:39 PM by RedLeaf »
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2014, 09:26:28 PM »
If Eric Staal is really being dangled for Phaneuf, why the hell wouldn't that happen in a heartbeat?

Because he's a guy with a $8.25M cap hit that struggled last season and really hasn't produced well enough to have the 7th biggest cap hit in the league. I mean, most of his career he's been a 70-75 point guy. That's great and something the Leafs could use, but, not for that cap hit and not when it depletes an area they need to improve. Part of the value in trading Phaneuf is in creating cap space, not taking away more of it.

Even beyond that, "dangling" Staal doesn't mean a straight swap. In fact, it almost certainly means not a straight swap.
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Offline RedLeaf

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2014, 09:32:44 PM »
If Eric Staal is really being dangled for Phaneuf, why the hell wouldn't that happen in a heartbeat?

Because he's a guy with a $8.25M cap hit that struggled last season and really hasn't produced well enough to have the 7th biggest cap hit in the league. I mean, most of his career he's been a 70-75 point guy. That's great and something the Leafs could use, but, not for that cap hit and not when it depletes an area they need to improve. Part of the value in trading Phaneuf is in creating cap space, not taking away more of it.

Even beyond that, "dangling" Staal doesn't mean a straight swap. In fact, it almost certainly means not a straight swap.

Right. It could mean Staal and a pick. Who knows? I take it Staal doesn't interest you?
"The Maple Leafs are like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water, and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction." --Steve Jobs for Brendan Shanahan.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2014, 09:42:53 PM »
Right. It could mean Staal and a pick. Who knows?

Well, were I an editor, which I am, I'd say that to "dangle" something makes it sort of implicit that you're hoping to get more. Right? If you dangle a carrot in front of an animal it means you're not just willing to give them a carrot but, rather, you're inducing them to make a further effort forward. "Dangle" would be a pretty odd choice of word for something that you were willing to start the bidding with, especially considering where the writer differentiates between what the Hurricanes are "dangling" and what the Offers would actually offer. 

I take it Staal doesn't interest you?

He interests me in the sense that he's a good player but seeing as I didn't watch a ton of Hurricanes games last year I'd probably want to know more about why his production dipped before I felt comfortable putting an offer together for him.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 09:45:07 PM by Nik the Trik »
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Online bustaheims

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2014, 09:51:09 PM »
Staal's total cap-hit is 16.5 million while Phaneuf's is 49. Besides, it's an extra 1.25 million each year for the next two years which is significantly cheaper than keeping Phaneuf and adding someone along the lines of a Stastny or even Bolland. That contract is a killer and if it can be unloaded while also picking up a good-great piece, I am all for it.

Phaneuf's contract is nowhere as bad as you're making it out to be, but, on top of that, trading him means he needs to be replaced, and without a reasonable top pairing defence option available on the free agent market this summer, that means spending more assets to fill the void, which in turn creates other voids to be filled - with no guarantee of any sort of cap savings. So, there's a real possibility that trading Phaneuf for Staal leaves the team with both less assets, less cap space and a worse overall team. If the team trades Phaneuf, creating cap space immediately absolutely has to be part of the equation.
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Offline Potvin29

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #22 on: June 19, 2014, 09:57:45 PM »
I don't know that I'd make the trade, but I think Staal is a lot better than his point totals indicate.  He only had 12 PP points all season, when the last 2 full seasons he had at least 20. He was still within the top 15 C in the league for ES points.  I think that's probably just an anomaly, would expect his numbers to be closer to PPG next season.

Offline L K

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #23 on: June 19, 2014, 10:50:09 PM »
Staal's total cap-hit is 16.5 million while Phaneuf's is 49. Besides, it's an extra 1.25 million each year for the next two years which is significantly cheaper than keeping Phaneuf and adding someone along the lines of a Stastny or even Bolland. That contract is a killer and if it can be unloaded while also picking up a good-great piece, I am all for it.

Phaneuf's contract is nowhere as bad as you're making it out to be, but, on top of that, trading him means he needs to be replaced, and without a reasonable top pairing defence option available on the free agent market this summer, that means spending more assets to fill the void, which in turn creates other voids to be filled - with no guarantee of any sort of cap savings. So, there's a real possibility that trading Phaneuf for Staal leaves the team with both less assets, less cap space and a worse overall team. If the team trades Phaneuf, creating cap space immediately absolutely has to be part of the equation.

Look not further than 300 year old Andrei Markov looking for 6+ million on a multi-year deal.

Offline A Weekend at Bernier's

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2014, 09:56:16 AM »
Well, were I an editor, which I am, I'd say that to "dangle" something makes it sort of implicit that you're hoping to get more. Right? If you dangle a carrot in front of an animal it means you're not just willing to give them a carrot but, rather, you're inducing them to make a further effort forward. "Dangle" would be a pretty odd choice of word for something that you were willing to start the bidding with, especially considering where the writer differentiates between what the Hurricanes are "dangling" and what the Offers would actually offer. 

Well, true enough, but to "dangle" would also mean to entice: "I dangled the worm in front of the fish until it took the hook".  I don't think in this way it necessarily means much more is expected by either party.

But I love this discussion.  "Dangle" is one of those words that always make me snicker and think randy thoughts.

Offline Potvin29

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2014, 09:58:13 AM »
But I love this discussion.  "Dangle" is one of those words that always make me snicker and think randy thoughts.

Odd that makes you think of Carlyle, but to each their own.

Offline A Weekend at Bernier's

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2014, 10:30:49 AM »
But I love this discussion.  "Dangle" is one of those words that always make me snicker and think randy thoughts.

Odd that makes you think of Carlyle, but to each their own.

Don't you dare judge me.

Offline KW Sluggo

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2014, 07:44:45 PM »
Staal's total cap-hit is 16.5 million while Phaneuf's is 49. Besides, it's an extra 1.25 million each year for the next two years which is significantly cheaper than keeping Phaneuf and adding someone along the lines of a Stastny or even Bolland. That contract is a killer and if it can be unloaded while also picking up a good-great piece, I am all for it.

Phaneuf's contract is nowhere as bad as you're making it out to be, but, on top of that, trading him means he needs to be replaced, and without a reasonable top pairing defence option available on the free agent market this summer, that means spending more assets to fill the void, which in turn creates other voids to be filled - with no guarantee of any sort of cap savings. So, there's a real possibility that trading Phaneuf for Staal leaves the team with both less assets, less cap space and a worse overall team. If the team trades Phaneuf, creating cap space immediately absolutely has to be part of the equation.

I agree with you about Phaneuf's contract.

The going rate for grade "A" blueliners seems to be $8M per season and north thereof. It is a reasonable supposition that over the remaining term of Phaneuf's contract that price will only increase.

Unlike Markov, Phaneuf has more than 2 or 3 productive years left and what is Markov asking for at his age - 3 years and elephant bucks. For a building team like Florida or Edmonton or a re-stocking one like San Jose, Phaneuf is a good and a reasonably priced choice.

Had Phaneuf become a UFA on July 1st some (idiot?) GM would have offered him more than the Leafs are committed to paying. But honestly there is no defenceman of his caliber available as a UFA at any price.

It's not "supply and demand". It is scarcity .. and right now there is a scarcity of Phaneuf quality rear gurads at any price. You have to trade to get one and who else is willing to give one up?

I appreciate that Phaneuf should not be a 25 minute plus per game first pairing Dman but as a 2nd pairing in San Jose or a 1st pairing one on Edmonton or Florida (better than anything either team has) that is the best they can hope for unless they successfully offer sheet Subban (and there is no way that's happening). Even a team like Buffalo that need to make the cap floor could utilize both Phaneuf and his salary (although I doubt he would give the Sabers as much benefit as he would to other teams).

Beyond that there are Washington and Philly who both need help on defence and frankly some of the transactions those teams have made are strange to begin with, stranger than trading for Phaneuf anyway.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 06:15:24 PM by KW Sluggo »

Offline TimKerr

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2014, 08:04:31 PM »
 B


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Offline azzurri63

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2014, 08:21:55 PM »
Phaneuf's contract was bad before they even gave him the raise. Due to the cap going up all the salaries are going to climb.8 million for Weber or 7 for Dion. What would you take. Subban probably will get the same or better than Weber's deal. Again who would you take? Doughty 7 million per. Subban won the Norris which I'm not sure he should have. Amazing what scoring a whack of points on the PP can do. Nowhere in the same league as Weber or Doughty but that's sports and salary caps. These owners and GM's need to give their heads a shake. Nonis was an idiot to sign Dion for what he did. His play is on the decline. Personally I think the Leafs are going to have a tough time getting rid of Dion unless they eat some salary for sure. Think they have 2 good young offensive D men. Get rid of Dion and bring in some decent defensive minded guys either by trade or better yet youth from the Marlies and let them gain some experience and we will have a strong group in a couple years.

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Re: General Leafs Rumour Updates...
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2014, 08:21:55 PM »