Author Topic: Brendan Shanahan to be named president of Maple Leafs  (Read 27249 times)

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Offline bustaheims

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2014, 08:23:01 PM »
See. This is the area where I think the Leafs could really put their cash to work for them. Why can't they hire a headhunter to hand pick a super team of NHL executives to help the Leaf GM run this team? I'd do just that, and pay top dollar for an all-star management team.

Well, partly, because there are rules against just plucking guys from other teams. The other teams have to be willing to let them go. And partly because personalities and styles have to mesh. Guys need to work with each other, and, really, you need to let the boss hire his own people. The guy in charge has to be in charge. Too many cooks and all that.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline RedLeaf

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2014, 08:24:19 PM »
Good get rid of Poulin, Fletcher, Loiselle, Steve Kasper, Bobby Carpenter, Dave Morrison and all of those cronies. New regime.. Bring in Shanny  do something

Sure. Get rid of all the experienced guys and bring in a rookie to fill all their roles. ::)

You forgot to say, "It couldn't be worse".  ;)

Or, you know, turf the guys that are responsible for the current mess and bring in some new blood with some new ideas.

You want to 'turf' the entire management team?

I wouldn't mind getting rid of Nonis and if the new guy wants to make other changes to the staff, I'd want to him to be able to have the permission to do that.

But how much authority would you give to an individual that has never done this job anywhere, at any level before? Seems to me that is just asking for trouble.
"The Maple Leafs are like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water, and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction." --Steve Jobs for Brendan Shanahan.

Offline bustaheims

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2014, 08:29:33 PM »
But how much authority would you give to an individual that has never done this job anywhere, at any level before? Seems to me that is just asking for trouble.

They're not bringing in that new guy to be GM, though. The thinking, I imagine, if Shanny or whoever the new President might be isn't particularly experienced, is to pair them with a GM who is experienced, be that Nonis or someone else (there have been some suggestions of Hextall today, for instance, who has a lot of experience in the front office of NHL teams even though he's never been a full blown GM). It's more about bringing new blood into the mix and getting rid of some of the old guard that haven't been able to make it work. You give the guy all the authority he deserves with the position, but, you give him enough experienced support to work with - and you make sure he's a guy who is comfortable working as part of a team.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline RedLeaf

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2014, 08:30:15 PM »
See. This is the area where I think the Leafs could really put their cash to work for them. Why can't they hire a headhunter to hand pick a super team of NHL executives to help the Leaf GM run this team? I'd do just that, and pay top dollar for an all-star management team.

Well, partly, because there are rules against just plucking guys from other teams. The other teams have to be willing to let them go. And partly because personalities and styles have to mesh. Guys need to work with each other, and, really, you need to let the boss hire his own people. The guy in charge has to be in charge. Too many cooks and all that.

I'm not talking about this unfolding in just one or two seasons. It would have to be something that you build out in steps over time. There would still be someone to oversee it and be in charge of the operation. I can't see any reason it couldn't work in some capacity, providing ownership is willing to part with the money. Question is....why bother?
"The Maple Leafs are like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water, and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction." --Steve Jobs for Brendan Shanahan.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2014, 09:16:13 PM »
I'm not talking about this unfolding in just one or two seasons. It would have to be something that you build out in steps over time. There would still be someone to oversee it and be in charge of the operation. I can't see any reason it couldn't work in some capacity, providing ownership is willing to part with the money. Question is....why bother?

It's not about the time frame, the problem with the idea is that it essentially ignores that in addition to money, control is something that most hockey executives seem to want in their jobs. What you're essentially proposing is a situation where not only do all of your high priced All-Star team of executives have to be satisfied with a role where they have very little in the way of authority but whoever it is at the top not only has to be alright with not only giving up the ability to choose his own staff but also be comfortable with his staff being filled with the best possible replacements for him.

The best sports teams aren't run by teams of all-star executives, they're run by one very good executive who knows how to build a staff.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline RedLeaf

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2014, 09:25:18 PM »
I'm not talking about this unfolding in just one or two seasons. It would have to be something that you build out in steps over time. There would still be someone to oversee it and be in charge of the operation. I can't see any reason it couldn't work in some capacity, providing ownership is willing to part with the money. Question is....why bother?

It's not about the time frame, the problem with the idea is that it essentially ignores that in addition to money, control is something that most hockey executives seem to want in their jobs. What you're essentially proposing is a situation where not only do all of your high priced All-Star team of executives have to be satisfied with a role where they have very little in the way of authority but whoever it is at the top not only has to be alright with not only giving up the ability to choose his own staff but also be comfortable with his staff being filled with the best possible replacements for him.

The best sports teams aren't run by teams of all-star executives, they're run by one very good executive who knows how to build a staff.

And every once and a while someone comes along with a totally new way of doing things..... Just saying.
"The Maple Leafs are like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water, and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction." --Steve Jobs for Brendan Shanahan.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2014, 09:31:52 PM »
And every once and a while someone comes along with a totally new way of doing things..... Just saying.

Except there's nothing new whatsoever about a team trying to poach executive talent from other organizations. We've seen how ineffective it is as a strategy to assemble a multi-headed executive vs. one guy in control of the whole show. There's nothing novel about taking bad ideas and turning them up to 11.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline RedLeaf

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2014, 09:34:51 PM »
And every once and a while someone comes along with a totally new way of doing things..... Just saying.

Except there's nothing new whatsoever about a team trying to poach executive talent from other organizations. We've seen how ineffective it is as a strategy to assemble a multi-headed executive vs. one guy in control of the whole show. There's nothing novel about taking bad ideas and turning them up to 11.

The concept as a whole isn't done, you've just said so.... As for it being a bad idea, you can't really know that if it hasn't been done and done properly, can you?
"The Maple Leafs are like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water, and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction." --Steve Jobs for Brendan Shanahan.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2014, 09:40:23 PM »
The concept as a whole isn't done, you've just said so....

No, I said that it's not something that good teams do, not that teams haven't tried it.

As for it being a bad idea, you can't really know that if it hasn't been done and done properly, can you?

Well, again, there's nothing new about what you're suggesting but even if there was you absolutely can know if something is a bad idea before you try it.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline mc

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2014, 09:56:10 PM »
bruce_arthur: If Tim Leiweke is talking to Brendan Shananan about a hockey ops job, then Dave Nonis is in trouble.

mirtle: In all seriousness on the Leafs, I'll say this much: I don't think anyone's safe right now.

Reading that makes me all giddy!

Offline RedLeaf

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #25 on: April 09, 2014, 09:59:28 PM »
The concept as a whole isn't done, you've just said so....

No, I said that it's not something that good teams do, not that teams haven't tried it.

As for it being a bad idea, you can't really know that if it hasn't been done and done properly, can you?

Well, again, there's nothing new about what you're suggesting but even if there was you absolutely can know if something is a bad idea before you try it.

Yeah. I'm not so sure that's true. Which professional sports team runs precisely in the manner I've described?
"The Maple Leafs are like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water, and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction." --Steve Jobs for Brendan Shanahan.

Offline Mike1

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2014, 10:34:50 PM »
Don't really think hiring a president solves anything. Just adds more clutter to an already bloated front office. The Leafs have had a ton of people there, it hasn't really made them any better. They've struggled mightily despite the resources that they have at their disposal.

Hiring a name doesn't accomplish anything. The Leafs need people that are going to perform at a high level at their jobs. They clearly don't have enough of those people right now.



Offline Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2014, 10:38:52 PM »
#turfemall
#turfemallgood

Offline Mike1

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #28 on: April 09, 2014, 10:40:08 PM »
The epitome of work ethic. Shanny has won on every level. Why not?

Just because someone was a good player, doesn't mean they will be a good executive. Look at Kevin Lowe....

Offline bustaheims

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2014, 10:41:06 PM »
Don't really think hiring a president solves anything. Just adds more clutter to an already bloated front office. The Leafs have had a ton of people there, it hasn't really made them any better. They've struggled mightily despite the resources that they have at their disposal.

Hiring a name doesn't accomplish anything. The Leafs need people that are going to perform at a high level at their jobs. They clearly don't have enough of those people right now.

Well, part of hiring a new president from outside the organization is to bring in someone with a fresh perspective who doesn't have emotional ties to anyone who is there now and can make the front office less bloated (and, for the record, it's really not any more bloated than any other front office around the league - it's just that they're in the media more frequently) and more efficient.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

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Re: President of Hockey Operations
« Reply #29 on: April 09, 2014, 10:41:06 PM »