Author Topic: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier  (Read 10003 times)

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Offline GFK27

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2013, 03:45:21 PM »
it doesn't sound like he has much offensive upside.  Did we waste our first round pick in a deep draft?
He might have some offensive upside this was his first year in junior and averaged almost a point a game, lets hope he excells next year. By watching some clips he looks like a smart heady player

Offline GFK27

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2013, 03:51:27 PM »

I figured I wouldn't really like our pick unless somebody fell to us. Shinkaruk would have definitely been that guy. Gauthier and Rychel were the two most common names at 21 in mock drafts and neither of them really wow'ed me. Neither did anybody else in the area. Gauthier in particular. I'm not sure how he'll perform once he's playing in a league where he's not the biggest guy on the ice. Granted, I'm sure he'll still end up being a pretty good third line player, I'd just like a guy with a higher ceiling in the first round. It's the same reason I wasn't a huge fan of the Biggs pick.

@NHL 15h
"In 20 years, I've never seen a kid get back and play defense like he does.” @NHLCentralScout Chris Bordeleau on Frederik Gauthier #NHLDraft

Feel any better?

No, I read all about him prior to the draft. Including that quote. Although I think it's safe to assume that there's a bit of hyperbole involved there.

Let me put it this way. Gauthier is a 6'5'', 210lbs centre who is dynamite on the draw. He's got size, he can skate. He's apparently one of the best defensive forward prospects to come around in years. He's also shown the ability to score in junior among his peers. So why was he never in the conversation to be a top-15 draft pick? There's obviously some warts in his game, and the  big one is his limited upside.

I certainly don't hate the pick. I've said the past couple of days that the reason I don't want Clarkson is because I don't think good teams overpay for their 3rd liners. And the best way to not overpay for them is to develop them yourself. Gauthier could be that guy we develop. I'm just not crazy about using a 1st round pick on a guy like that.
It's too early to tell how could he be it was his first year. We'll find out in a couple of years

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2013, 12:20:23 PM »
it doesn't sound like he has much offensive upside.  Did we waste our first round pick in a deep draft?

It wasn't really a deep draft after the first tier of picks (some might say otherwise).

Jalili

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2013, 12:23:43 PM »
Did anybody listen to the Gauthier interview, it was hilarious?  I know there is a language thing going on there but even still.  When asked what team he liked growing up, he says none and that he really didn't like watching hockey, lol.  He also said in the future he hoped the Leafs would sign better looking players.  It was like he was locked in a room for 6 months with nothing to eat but magic mushrooms.

Is that what he said? I just watched the video online, couldn't understand anything he said.

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2013, 02:31:23 PM »
it doesn't sound like he has much offensive upside.  Did we waste our first round pick in a deep draft?
He might have some offensive upside this was his first year in junior and averaged almost a point a game, lets hope he excells next year. By watching some clips he looks like a smart heady player

Consider this in regards to first year Junior scoring:

Max Domi: 0.79ppg
John Tavares: 1.21ppg
Frederick Gauthier: 0.97ppg
Eric Staal: 0.78ppg
Jordan Staal: 0.44ppg
Brad Marchand: 0.48ppg
Nazim Kadri: 0.35ppg

I was just pulling names out of a hat really and obviously Gauthier doesn't compare to the upper tier players and is a different player than Tavares, but a lot of players don't produce their first year in Junior.

I think it's a tad premature to assume that a 6'5 seventeen year old with decent wheels that scored at almost a PPG pace in his rookie junior season will not have much offensive upside.

Offline Sarge

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2013, 02:40:15 PM »
Huh... Thanks for sharing that.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2013, 02:42:12 PM »
Consider this in regards to first year Junior scoring:

Max Domi: 0.79ppg
John Tavares: 1.21ppg
Frederick Gauthier: 0.97ppg
Eric Staal: 0.78ppg
Jordan Staal: 0.44ppg
Brad Marchand: 0.48ppg
Nazim Kadri: 0.35ppg

I was just pulling names out of a hat really and obviously Gauthier doesn't compare to the upper tier players and is a different player than Tavares, but a lot of players don't produce their first year in Junior.

That's because most players, their first year of junior, are 16 years old playing against guys two or three or four years older. Tavares was 15 playing against 19-20 year olds.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Corn Flake

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2013, 02:42:48 PM »
it doesn't sound like he has much offensive upside.  Did we waste our first round pick in a deep draft?
He might have some offensive upside this was his first year in junior and averaged almost a point a game, lets hope he excells next year. By watching some clips he looks like a smart heady player

Consider this in regards to first year Junior scoring:

Max Domi: 0.79ppg
John Tavares: 1.21ppg
Frederick Gauthier: 0.97ppg
Eric Staal: 0.78ppg
Jordan Staal: 0.44ppg
Brad Marchand: 0.48ppg
Nazim Kadri: 0.35ppg

I was just pulling names out of a hat really and obviously Gauthier doesn't compare to the upper tier players and is a different player than Tavares, but a lot of players don't produce their first year in Junior.

I think it's a tad premature to assume that a 6'5 seventeen year old with decent wheels that scored at almost a PPG pace in his rookie junior season will not have much offensive upside.

I think you need to compare "Q" with "Q" players though since it's a whole different league with no defense.

Giroux: 69/103 = 1.49
Sean Coutourier: 58/31 = .534
Huberdeau: 61/35 = .573
Kulikov: 57/62 = 1.08
Drouin: 33/29 = .878
MacKinnon: 58/78 = 1.34

Offline BlueWhiteBlood

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2013, 02:48:43 PM »
Watching the video of him, he looks like a less lazy JvR. He certainly goes to the dirty areas a lot. If he puts it all together, he'll be one heck of a player I think.
BWB

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2013, 03:33:16 PM »
Consider this in regards to first year Junior scoring:

Max Domi: 0.79ppg
John Tavares: 1.21ppg
Frederick Gauthier: 0.97ppg
Eric Staal: 0.78ppg
Jordan Staal: 0.44ppg
Brad Marchand: 0.48ppg
Nazim Kadri: 0.35ppg

I was just pulling names out of a hat really and obviously Gauthier doesn't compare to the upper tier players and is a different player than Tavares, but a lot of players don't produce their first year in Junior.

That's because most players, their first year of junior, are 16 years old playing against guys two or three or four years older. Tavares was 15 playing against 19-20 year olds.

Like I said, he's not exactly those players and may not turn out to be close to the Staals of the world....but there's just as much chance out there that he'll be a solid offensive player as there is that he'll lack offensive skill.

And I agree that Q players should of been used. I was just pulling names out of the air really.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2013, 03:36:53 PM »
Like I said, he's not exactly those players and may not turn out to be close to the Staals of the world....but there's just as much chance out there that he'll be a solid offensive player as there is that he'll lack offensive skill.

Not really. This is where I think you kind of have to defer to scouts on the matter. They do a pretty good job of determining which junior players have offensive skills that will translate and which ones won't. When they look at a guy who scored the way he did as a 17 year old and say that he's not much of an offensive prospect there's probably something to it.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline cw

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2013, 04:13:24 PM »
This is an older but informative article about trying to project scoring from lower leagues to the NHL
http://www.behindthenet.ca/projecting_to_nhl.php

Age (right down to the month) of when a player scored a certain ppg is important as you can read in the above link.

There's the odd exception like Bertuzzi but if a forward can't score at a ppg clip in the CHL, I've found it's pretty rare for him to make top 6 in the NHL. And just because a forward scored at more than 1 ppg in the CHL, doesn't assure he's even going to make the NHL.on any forward line.

So you can develop some rough and loose boundaries but one has to look more closely at the individual player to get a more precise prediction of how they'll score - which is kind of what the various prospect rankings did.

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #42 on: July 03, 2013, 04:14:32 PM »
Like I said, he's not exactly those players and may not turn out to be close to the Staals of the world....but there's just as much chance out there that he'll be a solid offensive player as there is that he'll lack offensive skill.

Not really. This is where I think you kind of have to defer to scouts on the matter. They do a pretty good job of determining which junior players have offensive skills that will translate and which ones won't. When they look at a guy who scored the way he did as a 17 year old and say that he's not much of an offensive prospect there's probably something to it.

Scouting Reports:

Frederik Gauthier’s scouting report:
Gauthier has the size – listed at six-foot-three and 193 pounds – but doesn’t use it in a physical sense, as his penalty minutes would suggest. He plays well at both ends of the rink and excels mostly in the faceoff circle. He won approximately 47 per cent of his draws, and only six players in the QMJHL took more face-offs than his 1,463 this season. Gauthier can be an imposing presence in front of the net on the power-play and a valued penalty killer due to his defensive acumen.



And some more:

Gauthier is a versatile forward who can play either wing or center and has the potential to be a talented all-around player. Gauthier is a sizable forward at 6’5”, 214 pounds, and he is an above-average skater considering his size. He also has solid defensive instincts that allow him to play an effective two-way game.

As a rookie, Gauthier was a bit tentative at times, but he showed spurts of brilliance. Corey Pronman of Hockey Prospectus had this to say about Gauthier.

He has a good amount of offensive hockey sense, but sometimes he is too conservative and would be better served by letting his creativity show. His pure offensive upside is a question mark. He also can be a gentle giant at times. He will engage, and I would not describe his play as soft, but he will not throw his body around, and he is not the meanest of players. Despite his frame, he does need to get stronger, and he could stand to shoot a tad more as well.

David Gregory of Central Scouting was also impressed with how Gauthier played this season, and he thinks the Quebec native has some solid potential.

He plays a 200-foot game. His motor is always going and he helps down low and can be right back into the play and create on offense. He has unbelievable hands in traffic for a guy his size and can make plays. I didn't know him at all from last year, and was very impressed when I saw him this year.

All in all, Gauthier is a decent player who still has a lot of time to fine tune and polish his game.

 

NHL Player Comparison

Ryan Kesler of the Vancouver Canucks. Gauthier plays an effective two-way game, and he has shown that he can be a solid offensive contributor.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1682043-frederik-gauthier-prospect-profile-on-toronto-maple-leafs-1st-round-pick


and another:

Talent Analysis
Already a polished prospect, Gauthier combines great size with a mature game at both ends of the ice. The same on-ice vision and hockey sense that makes him a dangerous contributor at the offensive side of the game also serves him well in breaking up opposing plays in his own zone. He's strong on the cycle, skates well and uses his size to win battles. Though he may never be a top offensive threat, he has too many tools to ignore.
http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/frederik-gauthier/



“Gauthier experienced an up-and-down campaign. He showed significant flashes, but also lapsed offensively for long stretches. He measures at 6’5″, 214 pounds, has some offensive talent, and shows advanced play for his age. He is an above-average skater, well above-average for a player his size, as he has a real easiness to his stride. He exerts little effort in his pushoffs, and he picks up speed very well. He is very agile, given his size. He had good offensive numbers this season, despite lining up against the opposition’s best players and taking a lot of defensive zone draws. He has a good amount of offensive hockey sense, but sometimes he is too conservative and would be better served by letting his creativity show. His pure offensive upside is a question mark. He also can be a gentle giant at times. He will engage, and I would not describe his play as soft, but he will not throw his body around, and he is not the meanest of players. Despite his frame, he does need to get stronger, and he could stand to shoot a tad more as well.”

Corey Pronman – Hockey Prospectus

“Humongous and well skilled two-way centre in the Jordan Staal mould. Good puckhandler who distributes it well. Moves well for a big man-child and does good work in traffic.  Doesn’t have a naturally nasty disposition, but don’t get him angry or he’ll turn mean in a hurry. Will use his size to win battles.  Very defensively aware and responsible; cuts off passing lanes and understands positioning. Strong hockey sense in all three zones. Quick release on his shot.“



I don't see too many scouting reports saying that he lacks offensive upside. Only that he was tentative at times. They say the skill is there and only question whether or not he'll realize it.


Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #43 on: July 03, 2013, 04:20:04 PM »
I don't see too many scouting reports saying that he lacks offensive upside. Only that he was tentative at times. They say the skill is there and only question whether or not he'll realize it.

In what you quoted you have "His pure offensive upside is a question mark", "Though he may never be a top offensive threat..." and "His pure offensive upside is a question mark." although I suspect that last one is just the first one repeated.

Anyways, I think that's largely the issue with him and why he was not seen by most as a top 20 pick.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2013, 04:32:05 PM »
I don't see too many scouting reports saying that he lacks offensive upside. Only that he was tentative at times. They say the skill is there and only question whether or not he'll realize it.

In what you quoted you have "His pure offensive upside is a question mark", "Though he may never be a top offensive threat..." and "His pure offensive upside is a question mark." although I suspect that last one is just the first one repeated.

Anyways, I think that's largely the issue with him and why he was not seen by most as a top 20 pick.

And all are saying the skill is there..it's just a question of him realizing it.


TMLfans.ca

Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #44 on: July 03, 2013, 04:32:05 PM »