Author Topic: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier  (Read 9999 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Heroic Shrimp

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 2664
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2013, 09:58:43 AM »
66th in QMJHL scoring

Not that it's a big difference, but it was actually 55th, and 4th among rookies.
Supersize my Freedom Fries

Offline RedLeaf

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 5174
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2013, 10:15:43 AM »
A player that should provide more defensive mindedness up front. The offense the Leafs have now is pretty good,but they're lacking in the two-way play department. I expect Gauthier to help down the road, and Bolland, and hopefully Horton to provide some of that next season. I think it was a good pick at 21.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2013, 10:17:27 AM by RedLeaf »
"The Maple Leafs are like a ship with a hole in the bottom, leaking water, and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction." --Steve Jobs for Brendan Shanahan.

Offline moon111

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1503
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2013, 10:45:38 AM »
66th in QMJHL scoring

Not that it's a big difference, but it was actually 55th, and 4th among rookies.
Well in the NHL, it's the difference between Brad Richards and Tyler Sequin. :)
R.I.P. Maureen.  You'll always be with us.

Online CarltonTheBear

  • Global Moderator
  • Sittler Status
  • *****
  • Posts: 18674
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2013, 11:31:24 AM »

I figured I wouldn't really like our pick unless somebody fell to us. Shinkaruk would have definitely been that guy. Gauthier and Rychel were the two most common names at 21 in mock drafts and neither of them really wow'ed me. Neither did anybody else in the area. Gauthier in particular. I'm not sure how he'll perform once he's playing in a league where he's not the biggest guy on the ice. Granted, I'm sure he'll still end up being a pretty good third line player, I'd just like a guy with a higher ceiling in the first round. It's the same reason I wasn't a huge fan of the Biggs pick.

@NHL 15h
"In 20 years, I've never seen a kid get back and play defense like he does.” @NHLCentralScout Chris Bordeleau on Frederik Gauthier #NHLDraft

Feel any better?

No, I read all about him prior to the draft. Including that quote. Although I think it's safe to assume that there's a bit of hyperbole involved there.

Let me put it this way. Gauthier is a 6'5'', 210lbs centre who is dynamite on the draw. He's got size, he can skate. He's apparently one of the best defensive forward prospects to come around in years. He's also shown the ability to score in junior among his peers. So why was he never in the conversation to be a top-15 draft pick? There's obviously some warts in his game, and the  big one is his limited upside.

I certainly don't hate the pick. I've said the past couple of days that the reason I don't want Clarkson is because I don't think good teams overpay for their 3rd liners. And the best way to not overpay for them is to develop them yourself. Gauthier could be that guy we develop. I'm just not crazy about using a 1st round pick on a guy like that.

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21718
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2013, 11:37:05 AM »
No, I read all about him prior to the draft. Including that quote. Although I think it's safe to assume that there's a bit of hyperbole involved there.

Yeah, I think some people tend to forget that the draft is when people make crazy statements like that. Schenn got a lot of that "best defensive prospect in 20 years" stuff too.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Online bustaheims

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 19336
  • 56!
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2013, 11:40:02 AM »
He's a bit of a safer pick, but, I wonder if maybe he could be a bigger version of Alex Steen. The scouting reports seem to indicate he has all the tools to be an excellent 2nd line centre, but, even if he ends up as a 3rd line pivots that plays excellent defence and puts up 35-40 points a year - that's decent value, in my mind, for that point in the draft.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik the Trik

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 21718
  • Some Guy On a Message Board
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2013, 11:45:07 AM »
He's a bit of a safer pick, but, I wonder if maybe he could be a bigger version of Alex Steen. The scouting reports seem to indicate he has all the tools to be an excellent 2nd line centre, but, even if he ends up as a 3rd line pivots that plays excellent defence and puts up 35-40 points a year - that's decent value, in my mind, for that point in the draft.

Yeah, you know, I wonder if we shouldn't start looking at the tail end of the first round of the draft a little bit like the way they look at it in the NBA draft. I mean, as CtB sort of alludes to, traditionally the way we've thought about it is that if you're that deep into a draft you're either going to be drafting someone like Gauthier with limited upside or you're going to look at someone with a lot of potential but is boom or bust.

But I wonder now that scouting is typically better if the guys who really have that "Well, if he puts it all together he could be an all-star" sort of talent don't get picked way earlier. I mean, most of the guys who were picked around Gauthier were said to be projects with limited upside themselves. Shinkaruk was the obvious exception and I typically don't subscribe to this sort of thinking but what we've seen in a lot of the last few drafts is that the guys who fall the way he did typically fall for a reason.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline cw

  • Administrator
  • Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 3167
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2013, 01:23:39 PM »
I haven't had the time to follow the draft talent very closely this year, but this eased my mind some:

Where Gauthier was ranked prior to the draft:
thescoutingreport.org: No. 12 Overall
Future Considerations: No. 16 Overall
International Scouting Services: No. 18 Overall
NHLNumbers.com: No. 20 Overall
Craig Button/TSN: No. 21 Overall
Bob McKenzie/TSN: No. 22 Overall
The Hockey Guys: No. 22 Overall
SportsNet: No. 23 Overall
McKeen's: No. 23 Overall
Grant Sonier ESPN: No. 25 Overall
Kyle Woodlief, USA Today mock draft: No. 26 Overall
Hockey Prospect: No. 29 Overall
Ryan Kennedy/Hockey News: No. 30 Overall
Hockey Prospectus: No. 31 Overall
Woodlief/Red Line Report: No. 32 Overall
Chris Peters/CBS: No. 36 Overall

Leafs picked 21st, slightly higher than the average of the above rankings.

NHL Central Scouting: No. 8 North American Skaters

Here's some other comments:
Questions about Gauthier's overall offensive upside led to his tumble down the board, but he's still a very good prospect that has a good chance to go in the first round. His size stands out, but he also uses it very well and could develop into a strong two-way power forward down the line. He was near a point-per-game as a QMJHL rookie this year. CBS Sports

“Humongous and well skilled two-way centre in the Jordan Staal mould. Good puckhandler who distributes it well. Moves well for a big man-child and does good work in Will use his size to win battles. Very defensively aware and responsible; cuts off passing lanes and understands positioning. Strong hockey sense in all three zones. Quick release on his shot.” Red Line Report

“Gauthier is a solid team player who does whatever is asked of him with pride and determination. He has very good speed and intimidates his opponents with his speed and size. Another advantage is he has a strong work ethic and good defensive habits at a young age. He plays such a solid consistent game 5 on 5 that he should be able to translate that into the pro ranks. Particularly effective when used on the penalty kill where his speed and hockey sense can lead to unexpected offensive opportunities. Can play either a skilled game or a hard-nosed physical game.” International Scouting Services 2013 Draft Guide

"I've never seen a kid get back and play defense like he does in 20 years. In his own end, he's always around the puck. A kid that can play defense like he does at his age, with that kind of maturity, is very rare." NHL Central Scouting’s Chris Bordeleau

He plays a 200-foot game. His motor is always going and he helps down low and can be right back into the play and create on offense. He has unbelievable hands in traffic for a guy his size and can make plays. I didn't know him at all from last year, and was very impressed when I saw him this year. David Gregory of Central Scouting

Gauthier inches up from his #14 ranking in January as we see him as a player worth a roll of the dice in the Top 15. After bypassing an NCAA offer from Harvard, Gauthier had an up and down rookie season with Rimouski that culminated with a U18 Gold Medal in Sochi. Gauthier's mammoth size and adept skating ability will obviously jump out to any observer right away, but there's more to his game that projects value at the next level.
The Laval, Que. native has a well developed two-way game and has shown inviting flashes of projectable offensive potential. The main concern is centered around whether or not that potential will be realized. Gauthier has the tools to be an NHL player as a polished defensive center, but there is legitimate risk that the offensive game doesn't come around to the level it needs to be for him to be a true Top 9 player.
The Scouting Report.org

Gauthier experienced an up-and-down campaign. He showed significant flashes, but also lapsed offensively for long stretches. He measures at 6'5", 214 pounds, has some offensive talent, and shows advanced play for his age. He is an above-average skater, well above-average for a player his size, as he has a real easiness to his stride. He exerts little effort in his pushoffs, and he picks up speed very well. He is very agile, given his size. He had good offensive numbers this season, despite lining up against the opposition's best players and taking a lot of defensive zone draws. He has a good amount of offensive hockey sense, but sometimes he is too conservative and would be better served by letting his creativity show. His pure offensive upside is a question mark. He also can be a gentle giant at times. He will engage, and I would not describe his play as soft, but he will not throw his body around, and he is not the meanest of players. Despite his frame, he does need to get stronger, and he could stand to shoot a tad more as well. Corey Pronman of Hockey Prospectus

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/nhl-draft-prospects-no-23-frederik-gauthier/
Scout’s take: “I thought he had a good year, but he seemed to kind of be a little bit of a different player in November when he broke his jaw,” says David Burstyn, director of scouting for McKeen’s Hockey. “He wasn’t as engaged as he was in the first two months and he played tentatively. I like him as a good utility player. I thought he did a good job improving his draft stock. I thought he was really good at the under-18s.

“He’s one of those utility guys — a little bit like Michal Handzus – takes good draws for you, blocks shots, can chip in with some timely scoring. If he scores 20 goals at the National Hockey League level, that’s going to be good, but you’re going to want this guy as a matchup player. You’re going to probably want him to keep other higher-profile forwards in check. He plays with energy – he did at the under-18s, like he did at the beginning of the year. If he can play at that type of tempo with his size and his skating ability and his faceoff skills, he should be a pretty good third line depth player.”

“The prototypical 2nd/3rd centre that every team covets,” adds Ross MacLean, head scout for International Scouting Services. “Gauthier has great size, works hard in both directions and can really shut down opponents top offensive players well. He thinks the game incredibly well and is a valuable asset in just about every situation. While he is at his best and most appealing in the defensive side of the game, he is no slouch offensively either and is a capable goal scorer and set up man. He uses his size well to protect possession and battle out plays around the net and in the corners.”
From Sportsnet

http://thehockeywriters.com/combine/frederik-gauthier-nhl-2013-draft-war-room-prospect-profile/
Why are scouts so excited about this player who suddenly appears on the scene and seems to be on an upward progression to stardom?

Scoring: At one time, he was not known for his scoring ability but look at the “Leader Board” – Number one in the CHL in rookie scoring. The trio of Frédérik, 6’3 201 lb. Scott Oke and 5’11 180 lb. Peter Trainor are cutting quite a swath in the early days of the 2012-13 QMJHL season. As well as scoring, all of them have a very high plus-minus (+12 to +14 with +13 for Frédérik).
Skating: He has been criticized in the past for his skating but look at his first goal against Shawinigan on October 7, 2012. The player that scored that goal was flying. Yes, he could stand to improve his agility and his passing speed but Frédérik has improved his skating enough that he just leaves scouts wondering how good he can be if he improves his skating even further. The video is from Jerome Berube of HockeyProspects.com and you really should bookmark his site if you want to follow the exploits of the stars of the 2013 NHL draft. Seek out his isolation video of Nathan MacKinnon when you are there.
Size: Many say that he doesn’t use his size enough.  Although this is true to a certain extent, at 6’4, 219 lb. he is plenty strong to do what he wants for the most part. His 6’4 size also gives him a considerable reach advantage over most players. 6’4, 219 pounders who can skate decently and score don’t grow on trees. The thought of what this guy can do when he starts to more effectively optimize the use of his god-given size and strength down the road is what has scouts drooling today.
Defensive awareness: The scouting fraternity tend to agree on one thing: Frédérik Gauthier has that defensive awareness that is not often seen in “raw rookies”. His acumen in his own end is reminiscent of Sean Couturier.
Vision: A lot of that defensive awareness comes from Frédérik’s ability to read what is happening around him and properly adjust to the changing circumstances. At the moment, Frédérik is still too passive in his play in that it is still mainly reactionary. However, as he adjusts to his new league that will start to change and he will be the one initiating the play.
Other skills: Frédérik is still very raw in most of his skills. However, they are coming along. For instance, he is still under 50% in face-offs but he had one game recently where he went 17 to 23. His passing is pretty good but his shot is something that requires an upgrade to bring it to NHL minimums.


Gauthier possesses the complete package of skills to be a a very effective NHL player. He started off the QMJHL campaign on an absolute tear offensively before fatigue and oppositional adjustments slowed him down. What will ultimately determine his ceiling is where you think his offensive ability eventually grades out. Is he a Paul Gaustad type – a highly effective defensive player in a 3rd line role? Or is he a David Backes type – capable of a 1st/2nd line role on a very good team? It’s tough to say at this point because the sample size is so small and the trajectories of power forwards is so unpredictable but I’m optimistic and will tend toward the latter. His size, strength and well-rounded game could see him ascend very quickly through an organization. Alex Tran, Maple Leafs Hot Stove
 
Unknown to us before the season started, this Q newcomer is humongous and has legitimate offensive skills. Has been the biggest surprise anywhere so far. USA Today, Oct 2012

Here are a few other write ups:
Frederik Gauthier - Comparables
http://www.coppernblue.com/2013/6/18/4431118/frederik-gauthier-draft-comparables

Frederik Gauthier: 2013 NHL Draft Player Profile #21
http://lastwordonsports.com/2013/04/30/frederik-gauthier-2013-nhl-draft-player-profile-21/

2013 NHL Draft Profile Series – Frederik Gauthier
http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2013/06/06/2013-nhl-draft-profile-series-frederik-gauthier/

2013 NHL Draft Profile& Scouting Report: Frédérik Gauthier
http://www.defendingbigd.com/2013/6/8/4409720/frederik-gauthier-scouting-report-draft-profile-2013

Gauthier plays all-round game well beyond his years
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=670537


Overall, although I'm not deeply intimate with the draft talent for 2013, I'm also not wringing my hands. The Leafs appear to have made a fairly reasonable pick from the talent available.

Offline Highlander

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 4269
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2013, 02:19:17 PM »
And this pisses of the Habs which I truly love...they really wanted this guy...
"We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children"
                                           Navaho Proverb

Offline Stickytape

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1212
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2013, 02:29:55 PM »
And this pisses of the Habs which I truly love...they really wanted this guy...

I hope it isn't a disappointment to Gauthier; I bet he wanted to be in Montreal.  But I'm a big softie that way.

Offline L K

  • All Star
  • *****
  • Posts: 8526
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2013, 02:30:57 PM »
66th in QMJHL scoring

He started the season hot with 8G 15P in his first 9 games
He finished the season pretty weak with 6G 9P in 19 games and then had 2 assists in 6 playoff games

You have to like the size, but that's a pretty big tail off in production.  Maybe it's just a lack of conditioning as it was his first year in the QMJHL.  However he just turned 18 and has played one year of Major Junior hockey.
Pretty sure the broken jaw had something to do with it.  Think Kadri also suffered one and stated it hurt his game for awhile.

Kadri's jaw was wired shut and he missed a month of the season in 2008-2009. Where it really held Kadri back was competing for the WJHC team though because he went to training camp cold after eating nothing but liquids for a month.  He lost a bunch of weight because of it. 

However, when he went back to the OHL he finished the season with 50 points in 35 games.

Gauthier on the other hand didn't have the same kind of jaw fracture and didn't require his jaw wired shut for a month.  He was able to eat the day after the injury and keep going after his 2 weeks off the ice.

All that being said, he was playing his first major junior season last year and with a big body, writing off his top end potential might be a little unfair at this point.

Offline Potvin29

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 14577
  • Gender: Male
  • Auston 20:16
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2013, 02:40:39 PM »
66th in QMJHL scoring

He started the season hot with 8G 15P in his first 9 games
He finished the season pretty weak with 6G 9P in 19 games and then had 2 assists in 6 playoff games

You have to like the size, but that's a pretty big tail off in production.  Maybe it's just a lack of conditioning as it was his first year in the QMJHL.  However he just turned 18 and has played one year of Major Junior hockey.
Pretty sure the broken jaw had something to do with it.  Think Kadri also suffered one and stated it hurt his game for awhile.

Kadri's jaw was wired shut and he missed a month of the season in 2008-2009. Where it really held Kadri back was competing for the WJHC team though because he went to training camp cold after eating nothing but liquids for a month.  He lost a bunch of weight because of it. 

However, when he went back to the OHL he finished the season with 50 points in 35 games.

Gauthier on the other hand didn't have the same kind of jaw fracture and didn't require his jaw wired shut for a month.  He was able to eat the day after the injury and keep going after his 2 weeks off the ice.

All that being said, he was playing his first major junior season last year and with a big body, writing off his top end potential might be a little unfair at this point.

Yeah like you say, Kadri was in his 3rd OHL season by that point, so probably going to be some difference between the two.

Offline moon111

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1503
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2013, 02:47:57 PM »
Guy Carbonneau had 29pts in 59 games in his rookie QMJHL season.  Four years later, he had 182 points in 72 games.  Judging Gauthier's offensive potential after one rookie season might be a mistake.   But if all he does is become a bigger version of Carbonneau, I'm okay with that.
R.I.P. Maureen.  You'll always be with us.

Offline Potvin29

  • Sittler Status
  • ******
  • Posts: 14577
  • Gender: Male
  • Auston 20:16
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2013, 02:53:28 PM »
Guy Carbonneau had 29pts in 59 games in his rookie QMJHL season.  Four years later, he had 182 points in 72 games.  Judging Gauthier's offensive potential after one rookie season might be a mistake.   But if all he does is become a bigger version of Carbonneau, I'm okay with that.

He was 16/17 when he was a rookie in the Q.

Offline leafplasma

  • Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 1193
  • Gender: Male
  • Blue Bones Baby
    • View Profile
Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2013, 03:27:45 PM »
Did anybody listen to the Gauthier interview, it was hilarious?  I know there is a language thing going on there but even still.  When asked what team he liked growing up, he says none and that he really didn't like watching hockey, lol.  He also said in the future he hoped the Leafs would sign better looking players.  It was like he was locked in a room for 6 months with nothing to eat but magic mushrooms.

TMLfans.ca

Re: 21st overall - Frederik Gauthier
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2013, 03:27:45 PM »