Author Topic: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks  (Read 7715 times)

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Offline Hampreacher

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What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« on: August 04, 2012, 02:39:12 PM »
It is rumoured that Sharks want to sign Doan. To do so they have to shed salary. How about Joe Thorton for out first line center. Who would leafs need to trade?

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2012, 02:41:09 PM »
It is rumoured that Sharks want to sign Doan. To do so they have to shed salary. How about Joe Thorton for out first line center. Who would leafs need to trade?

Sure. You mean like for a second rounder and Percy?

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2012, 03:06:07 PM »

Why would they sign Doan if signing Doan meant getting rid of Thornton? Unless you're giving them enough so that getting rid of Thornton made sense competitively why would they sign an aging UFA and hurt their team?

They can dump salary in a lot of different places so unless you can make an offer for Thornton that makes San Jose a better team in the meantime, which doesn't make sense for the Leafs even if they were capable of it, I have to assume San Jose will not be looking to move him.
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Offline Hampreacher

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2012, 03:36:01 PM »
Buffalo said to be interested in Thornton if don't sign Doan. Sharks would also need to shed salary. Therefore make an offer.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2012, 03:48:58 PM »
Buffalo said to be interested in Thornton if don't sign Doan. Sharks would also need to shed salary. Therefore make an offer.

Right now San Jose has 5.5 million in cap space. Even assuming Doan gets his 4 year/30 million dollar deal they'd only need to clear 3 or so million to have Doan and have a little breathing room.

And, as I said, it doesn't really make sense to sign Doan and trade Thornton. If you're signing Doan, you're making a push for immediate success. Why match that with trading the team's #1 centre and leading scorer unless you were getting a package back that also contributed to a team's immediate success?

Toss in that Thornton has a NMC and it kind of completes the hattrick of reasons not to trade him. They have other salaries that are significantly easier to move and don't have as much impact on the team's fortunes.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2012, 04:59:05 PM »
I think Nik sums up the issue quite nicely, and, really, because of that, there is no offer that would make sense for the Leafs. San Jose isn't moving Thornton as a salary dump if the pick up Doan. If they move him, they'll expect the players who come back to be able to make up for that loss, but at a lower salary - that means young players and prospects. Trading for Thornton is a win-now type move as well, which A) the Leafs aren't in a position to make and B) means the team would need to hold on to their quality young players who are capable of making an immediate impact in the NHL - otherwise, there's just not enough depth on the roster to make sense of the addition of an aging Thornton.
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Offline Madferret

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2012, 05:39:42 PM »
I'd like to hear what hampreacher thinks is a suitable offer for Thornton myself.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2012, 06:43:14 PM »

I think if I'm San Jose you can probably sell me on a package involving Kessel, a good young NHL or NHL ready defenseman(Gunnar or Gardiner) and then a pick or something. Then San Jose can go forward with forward lines like this:

Marleau-Couture-Kessel
Clowe-Pavelski-Doan
Galiardi-Handzus-Havlat
Burish-Wingels-Desjardins

Then you can slide Gardiner or Gunnarsson into the top six and trade Boyle to free up cap space and have a pretty good top 6 of

Stuart-Burns
Gardiner/Gunnar-Murray
Vlasic-Demers/Braun

That would look pretty appealing to me if I'm running the Sharks. In order to trade Thornton I'd have to be convinced I could go into next year younger but still a contender and I really think that only Kessel and one of the better D-men on the Leafs does that. Of course, at that point, I don't do the deal if I'm the Leafs so we're back to it not being a situation that makes sense.
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Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2012, 07:04:29 PM »
But would you do it if it were just Kessel and a pick?

Offline bustaheims

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2012, 07:07:05 PM »
But would you do it if it were just Kessel and a pick?

I'd still probably say no. You'd want Thornton to play with Kessel. Without him, who is Jumbo Joe going to pass the puck to?
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2012, 07:10:27 PM »
But would you do it if it were just Kessel and a pick?

I don't think so. I mean if I'm the Leafs I'm getting older and the team probably isn't close enough to contend in the two years I can control Thornton. If I'm San Jose, I think I'm giving up the better piece which hurts me immediately and in 14-15 I have a pretty tough situation having to sign Pavelski, Couture and Kessel to new deals where they all might be looking for big raises.
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Online Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate

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What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2012, 07:15:55 PM »
But would you do it if it were just Kessel and a pick?

I'd still probably say no. You'd want Thornton to play with Kessel. Without him, who is Jumbo Joe going to pass the puck to?

JVR?

Jeez not only do we need a 1C it turns out we need wingers too.

Also, Nik's points seem strangely compelling. Much as I'd like to see Kessel moved I reluctantly have to agree that this isn't the way to do it.

Offline Madferret

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2012, 07:21:31 PM »

I think if I'm San Jose you can probably sell me on a package involving Kessel, a good young NHL or NHL ready defenseman(Gunnar or Gardiner) and then a pick or something. Then San Jose can go forward with forward lines like this:

Marleau-Couture-Kessel
Clowe-Pavelski-Doan
Galiardi-Handzus-Havlat
Burish-Wingels-Desjardins

Then you can slide Gardiner or Gunnarsson into the top six and trade Boyle to free up cap space and have a pretty good top 6 of

Stuart-Burns
Gardiner/Gunnar-Murray
Vlasic-Demers/Braun

That would look pretty appealing to me if I'm running the Sharks. In order to trade Thornton I'd have to be convinced I could go into next year younger but still a contender and I really think that only Kessel and one of the better D-men on the Leafs does that. Of course, at that point, I don't do the deal if I'm the Leafs so we're back to it not being a situation that makes sense.

Yeah that would probably do it (if trading for JT  was a possibility / made sense of course). Some might take your inclusion of Kessel a shot at B flat


Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2012, 07:25:11 PM »
Some might take your inclusion of Kessel a shot at B flat

I have absolutely no idea what you're saying here.
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Offline bustaheims

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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2012, 07:25:48 PM »
JVR?

Jeez not only do we need a 1C it turns out we need wingers too.

Also, Nik's points seem strangely compelling. Much as I'd like to see Kessel moved I reluctantly have to agree that this isn't the way to do it.

Well, the team has good secondary scoring wingers, but, Kessel's the only guy that's really a clear 1st line player. Trade him for Thornton, and what you're left with is still one 1st line forward, except, now, he's an older play making centre instead of a young sniper on the wing. It's just poor team building.
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Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2012, 07:25:48 PM »