TMLfans.ca

Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: slapshot on January 03, 2018, 02:01:21 PM

Title: Trade Deadline
Post by: slapshot on January 03, 2018, 02:01:21 PM
I think it's pretty obvious the Lou and Co. need to step up and make a deal or two to augment-support this team as currently structured.

Once Zaitsev gets back, it would be fantastic is they could somehow secure that elusive top 4 right-handed d-man, ideally to be matched with Rielly. Not complaints about Hainsey, but getting a stronger right handed shot with Rielly would not only strengthen the top pairing but also allow Hainsey to slide in the 3 pairing alongside Borgman. Polak tries hard but lacks mobility. Carrick has mobility but lack the physical strength. Hainsey at least has a bit of both, and is more experienced with the puck than either of them. I think his stability would be an aide to Borgman, less running around.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Bozak, Komo and JVR. If the Leafs want to make a splash on D, something has to give.

Like Freddy the Goat last night. He was solid. If he continues to improve, Moore will be on the outside looking in. I don't mind Moore, but he occasionally takes undisciplined penalties, not what you would expect from a 4th line defensive veteran player.   

I still like the idea of Marner eventually playing centre instead of Nylander (who I like on the wing with Matthews). He's fun to watch and a natural playmaker. With JVR on one wing and either Brown or Kapanen on the right side, I don't think that line would be hurting.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 03, 2018, 02:14:37 PM

This is about the trade deadline?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: LuncheonMeat on January 03, 2018, 02:41:04 PM

This is about the trade deadline?

In that it's prior to the trade deadline, yes.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 03, 2018, 02:55:15 PM
Considering the Leafs' path goes through Tampa Bay, and they look like an unstoppable juggernaut right now - even if the Leafs' played them well last night - this would not be the year I give up assets at the deadline to load up for a playoff run. The strategy for this deadline should probably be offload some of the replaceable parts (Komarov specifically, some other smaller pieces like Moore possibly), and add some assets to use in deals to supplement the team at the draft/in the summer.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 03, 2018, 03:01:15 PM
Considering the Leafs' path goes through Tampa Bay, and they look like an unstoppable juggernaut right now - even if the Leafs' played them well last night - this would not be the year I give up assets at the deadline to load up for a playoff run. The strategy for this deadline should probably be offload some of the replaceable parts (Komarov specifically, some other smaller pieces like Moore possibly), and add some assets to use in deals to supplement the team at the draft/in the summer.

If anything, play down to 4th in the division and take your chances with the Metro for the harder first round and easier second round, and a hopefully injury depleted Tampa Bay squad.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 03, 2018, 03:47:27 PM

If anything, play down to 4th in the division and take your chances with the Metro for the harder first round and easier second round, and a hopefully injury depleted Tampa Bay squad.
If the Leafs were 4th in our division they'd be out of the playoffs. Florida is currently 4th with 39pts(6th in the wildcard race). Only the top 3 in each division make the playoffs. The rest from both division battle for the wild card. If the Leafs stay where they are they'll play Boston and Tampa will play the 2nd wildcard team.

(https://www.printyourbrackets.com/images/nhl-playoff-bracket.png)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 03, 2018, 03:58:25 PM
Oh thanks! I meant whichever wildcard faces the Metro division #1.
Now I feel guilty.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 03, 2018, 04:05:30 PM
Like last year, probably be Washington....
Anyway, most likely the wildcard will come from the Metro, so it's going to be a good team going against Tampa if they remain in 1st. I like our chances against Boston should it end up that way. Lots of hockey left tho.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 03, 2018, 04:15:49 PM
Considering the Leafs' path goes through Tampa Bay, and they look like an unstoppable juggernaut right now - even if the Leafs' played them well last night - this would not be the year I give up assets at the deadline to load up for a playoff run. The strategy for this deadline should probably be offload some of the replaceable parts (Komarov specifically, some other smaller pieces like Moore possibly), and add some assets to use in deals to supplement the team at the draft/in the summer.

^ up there.  This is Year Two of a multi-year process to get to contender status.  Patience.  It will take at least 2 more years to get the back end up to snuff, and even then we are unlikely to have the talent level TB now has.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on January 03, 2018, 04:25:40 PM
Considering the Leafs' path goes through Tampa Bay, and they look like an unstoppable juggernaut right now - even if the Leafs' played them well last night - this would not be the year I give up assets at the deadline to load up for a playoff run. The strategy for this deadline should probably be offload some of the replaceable parts (Komarov specifically, some other smaller pieces like Moore possibly), and add some assets to use in deals to supplement the team at the draft/in the summer.
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 03, 2018, 04:33:25 PM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on January 03, 2018, 06:13:34 PM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.

I'm with busta here...centre depth isn't great right now, but I suppose Marleau could move there to ride out the year.  There's a post on PPP that's suggesting the Leafs should chase Pacioretty.  The post suggests a pretty massive package that I can't even get my head around for a guy with only 1 year left on his deal.

Trading JVR, Komarov, and Bozak, and Moore, I have a feeling that's why the goat is getting a look.  This season looks to me just like last year...they're just not ready to take the next step yet. 

And another thing...anyone thinking that Leivo and Kapanen can replace the offense of Bozak and JVR is dreaming.  Neither guys are even regular NHLers at this point, and suggesting they replace guys who combine for over 100 points a season is bananas.  If Kapanen and Leivo are playing in those kind of roles, they've thrown in the towel on the season.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 03, 2018, 06:25:23 PM
For the life of me, I can't figure out why Pacioretty's nickname isn't Maxi Patch.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on January 03, 2018, 07:29:43 PM
For the life of me, I can't figure out why Pacioretty's nickname isn't Maxi Patch.
Funny Herman.... 8)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bill_Berg on January 03, 2018, 09:30:25 PM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.

I'm with busta here...centre depth isn't great right now, but I suppose Marleau could move there to ride out the year.  There's a post on PPP that's suggesting the Leafs should chase Pacioretty.  The post suggests a pretty massive package that I can't even get my head around for a guy with only 1 year left on his deal.

Trading JVR, Komarov, and Bozak, and Moore, I have a feeling that's why the goat is getting a look.  This season looks to me just like last year...they're just not ready to take the next step yet. 

And another thing...anyone thinking that Leivo and Kapanen can replace the offense of Bozak and JVR is dreaming.  Neither guys are even regular NHLers at this point, and suggesting they replace guys who combine for over 100 points a season is bananas.  If Kapanen and Leivo are playing in those kind of roles, they've thrown in the towel on the season.

I wouldn't want to see Marleau have a permanent role at center. I would like to see them pick up another reliable center, a guy that you can trust defensively, as well as another defenseman or two. But any deal has to be right too, no breaking the bank for this season.

I think Gauthier is up so they can take a look at what they have. No expectations until they see what he can do for a few games.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 03, 2018, 11:13:46 PM
Gauthier's not fast enough to play in this league now.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on January 04, 2018, 07:51:47 AM
Gauthier's not fast enough to play in this league now.

He's faster than Brian Boyle who's been pretty successful in this league.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on January 04, 2018, 10:54:20 AM
Need to see more of Goat but speed didn't look to be a problem to me. He doesn't appear to be particularly agile but his long reach can make up for that to a degree. Looked competent on the PK and in his own end for the most part. I think he can play in this league.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 04, 2018, 11:03:14 AM
I'm starting to think that it's more likely that JVR and/or Bozak will get re-signed than it is that they'll get traded. I think one of them walks on July 1st and the other is brought back. Not sure which one. Not saying that's what I would do, that's just my gut feeling.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 04, 2018, 11:03:58 AM
Need to see more of Goat but speed didn't look to be a problem to me. He doesn't appear to be particularly agile but his long reach can make up for that to a degree. Looked competent on the PK and in his own end for the most part. I think he can play in this league.

Yeah. For a 4th line C and PKer, I don't think the speed is a big issue. He'll be on the ice against slower players or in a role where his size will make up for a good deal of his lack of footspeed.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 04, 2018, 12:01:25 PM
I'm starting to think that it's more likely that JVR and/or Bozak will get re-signed than it is that they'll get traded. I think one of them walks on July 1st and the other is brought back. Not sure which one. Not saying that's what I would do, that's just my gut feeling.

I've been feeling that for the past couple of months, but solely for JvR.

The front office really really likes him (like really). His game as a skilled complementary winger doesn't really impede any of our star players (who need the puck) as he just goes to the front and does his thing. He plays a position where we are organizationally shallow, he is a fanatic about hockey and the professional athlete's upkeep (he wants to be Marleau), and he is a true student of the game.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 04, 2018, 12:24:55 PM
I've been feeling that for the past couple of months, but solely for JvR.

The front office really really likes him (like really). His game as a skilled complementary winger doesn't really impede any of our star players (who need the puck) as he just goes to the front and does his thing. He plays a position where we are organizationally shallow, he is a fanatic about hockey and the professional athlete's upkeep (he wants to be Marleau), and he is a true student of the game.

Yeah, I really feel like we're going to see that Oshie-style deal with him. $5.75mil x 8 years.

Then with Bozak I think he'll be offered a 3-year deal with a slightly reduced salary, say $3.8mil. He turns 32 in March, and I don't see him getting a contract much more than that. I think people around the league know that he's not capable of being a 2C on a good team. I'm sure some teams could offer him a little more than that but I could see him wanting to stay here where he's comfortable. If he takes it, great. If not, the Leafs will have to look at other options externally. I don't think the they want Nylander there quite yet.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on January 04, 2018, 12:34:06 PM
I understand the desire to have Nylander at center, but he and Matthews work so well together. Maybe we have someone else in the system who can step into the RW position with Matthews, but I don't think he's currently on the roster. Brown doesn't work, Leivo...hasn't been tried but I think he's too similar to Hyman (with a better shot). Maybe the better approach will be to replace Hyman. Maybe Kapanen would work well with Matthews.

As for JVR...I have mixed feelings. A lot of games he seems to really not do much, you don't really notice him. He's not great along the boards, not overly fast, doesn't really drive play by himself. But he is great at what he does - score from in close, screen, etc. Great hands. So how much of the cap is that worth, and for how many years. 8 years seems like a long time.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 04, 2018, 12:41:02 PM
I've been feeling that for the past couple of months, but solely for JvR.

The front office really really likes him (like really). His game as a skilled complementary winger doesn't really impede any of our star players (who need the puck) as he just goes to the front and does his thing. He plays a position where we are organizationally shallow, he is a fanatic about hockey and the professional athlete's upkeep (he wants to be Marleau), and he is a true student of the game.

Yeah, I really feel like we're going to see that Oshie-style deal with him. $5.75mil x 8 years.

Then with Bozak I think he'll be offered a 3-year deal with a slightly reduced salary, say $3.8mil. He turns 32 in March, and I don't see him getting a contract much more than that. I think people around the league know that he's not capable of being a 2C on a good team. I'm sure some teams could offer him a little more than that but I could see him wanting to stay here where he's comfortable. If he takes it, great. If not, the Leafs will have to look at other options externally. I don't think the they want Nylander there quite yet.

JvR himself also doesn't really care about money (not like Karlsson or Doughty); his agent probably does, but he himself has said he really wants to stay here somewhat regardless of the cost.

My problem with Bozak is that he currently can't anchor a sheltered scoring line, which is really how deep playoff drives tend to happen (which is why JvR might be considered critical). Maybe Bozak turns it up for the stretch drive and proves me wrong. I can see him getting re-signed for 3ish as well on very short term. The front office seems to really like setting up temporary veterans and seeing which developing player will force their hand in supplanting them.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 04, 2018, 12:46:15 PM
Even though I hate long term UFA overspends, even the most inept GM seems to get out from them scott-free after at most a year or two of frustration.

JvR's playstyle has longevity to it, so as long as he can keep skating, he'll still quietly produce near the top of the team with limited minutes.

The cap amount is going up next year by 5M. There's a potential buyout window opening with the CBA expiry in a couple of years, as well as expansion teams opening up within an 8 year timeframe for creative dump-off solutions.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 04, 2018, 01:09:41 PM
One guy who I would target on defence would be New Jersey's Damon Severson. 23 years old, right handed shot, signed to a 6-year deal that just started with a cap hit of $4.166mil. He's sort of like a poor mans Anton Stralman (but not that much poorer).

There aren't really any hard rumours that he's available, but the trade for Vatanen and the play of another righty Steven Santini seems to have bumped him down the line-up. And he's about to be a healthy scratch for a 2nd straight game (plus he was healthy scratched earlier this season too even before the Vatanen trade).
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 04, 2018, 04:39:58 PM
One guy who I would target on defence would be New Jersey's Damon Severson. 23 years old, right handed shot, signed to a 6-year deal that just started with a cap hit of $4.166mil. He's sort of like a poor mans Anton Stralman (but not that much poorer).

There aren't really any hard rumours that he's available, but the trade for Vatanen and the play of another righty Steven Santini seems to have bumped him down the line-up. And he's about to be a healthy scratch for a 2nd straight game (plus he was healthy scratched earlier this season too even before the Vatanen trade).

https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2018/1/3/16842812/public-service-announcement-damon-severson-is-the-devils-best-defender

CtB... are you... All About the Jersey?

I for one have always kind of liked Severson and thought he was the only defenseman they had.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on January 04, 2018, 07:33:30 PM
There's no way that Babcock can like JvR that much... He floats a lot lately... Frequently late to loose pucks...

I know he scores a lot, but I do t hink he'll be worth his new contract... I hope they don't sign him and take a chance on a UFA or an internal promotion.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on January 04, 2018, 08:06:05 PM
I agree, he seems to be floating a lot. JVR tune into the PVR
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on January 04, 2018, 09:02:29 PM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.

I'm with busta here...centre depth isn't great right now, but I suppose Marleau could move there to ride out the year.  There's a post on PPP that's suggesting the Leafs should chase Pacioretty.  The post suggests a pretty massive package that I can't even get my head around for a guy with only 1 year left on his deal.

Trading JVR, Komarov, and Bozak, and Moore, I have a feeling that's why the goat is getting a look.  This season looks to me just like last year...they're just not ready to take the next step yet. 

And another thing...anyone thinking that Leivo and Kapanen can replace the offense of Bozak and JVR is dreaming.  Neither guys are even regular NHLers at this point, and suggesting they replace guys who combine for over 100 points a season is bananas.  If Kapanen and Leivo are playing in those kind of roles, they've thrown in the towel on the season.
Kapanen and Leivo won't replace Bozak and Van Riemdyk's scoring, sure, but the Leafs would hopefully get a couple of good defensemen out of the deal that they sorely need.  Leivo and Kapanen aren't doing the team any good in the press box or in the minors.  Leivo in particular has got to be getting pretty frustrated.  He's done well when he's played and he has never once been rewarded.  I quite like him personally.  Kapanen is skilled also.  We'll see what the front office does.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on January 05, 2018, 09:00:13 AM
Marc Bergevin has started the trading frenzy by dealing highly sought after quasi-Cuban goaltender Al (Tony) Montoya to the Oilers for a 4th!

https://www.nhl.com/news/al-montoya-traded-to-oilers-by-canadiens/c-294670246


How will other GMs respond with this earth shattering move???
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: OldTimeHockey on January 07, 2018, 07:49:50 AM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.

I'm with busta here...centre depth isn't great right now, but I suppose Marleau could move there to ride out the year.  There's a post on PPP that's suggesting the Leafs should chase Pacioretty.  The post suggests a pretty massive package that I can't even get my head around for a guy with only 1 year left on his deal.

Trading JVR, Komarov, and Bozak, and Moore, I have a feeling that's why the goat is getting a look.  This season looks to me just like last year...they're just not ready to take the next step yet. 

And another thing...anyone thinking that Leivo and Kapanen can replace the offense of Bozak and JVR is dreaming.  Neither guys are even regular NHLers at this point, and suggesting they replace guys who combine for over 100 points a season is bananas.  If Kapanen and Leivo are playing in those kind of roles, they've thrown in the towel on the season.
Kapanen and Leivo won't replace Bozak and Van Riemdyk's scoring, sure, but the Leafs would hopefully get a couple of good defensemen out of the deal that they sorely need.  Leivo and Kapanen aren't doing the team any good in the press box or in the minors.  Leivo in particular has got to be getting pretty frustrated.  He's done well when he's played and he has never once been rewarded.  I quite like him personally.  Kapanen is skilled also.  We'll see what the front office does.

I watched Leivo through his JR days and from watching him so far in the NHL, his tendencies have not changed. He has good hands and a fairly good shot. His foot speed is fairly slow and his puck decisions can leave you questioning his actual grasp of the game. He also has the tendency to take nights off. Often. That one has yet to be proven as he's yet to play much.

Would I like to see him play more so we at least know what we have? Yes. Do I think he's anywhere close to JVR? Not even. In fact, I'm not sure we'd ever see Leivo be more than a 4th liner that can fill in on the 3rd line from time to time.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2018, 11:26:30 AM
Once again...the idea isn't that Leivo and/or Kapanen will replace JVR's scoring. Not going to happen, at least not immediately. JVR has some very useful positive attributes - standing in front screening the goalie, great hands in close - but what else does he offer? He's not particularly fast, not great along the boards (not physical at all for his size), not great defensively. So if you can move him to bring in someone who actually improves the defense, and you bring in NHL ready Kapanen who is more tenacious, faster, good along the boards, potential PKer, will chip in some scoring - the overall team could be improved even if the scoring drops off a bit. There is some risk to be sure, but pretty much everyone agrees we need to shore up the back end.

I don't think this team is ready to challenge for the cup right now so the smartest approach might be to move him if the return is decent, and especially if it improves the defense.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 07, 2018, 12:07:03 PM
Once again...the idea isn't that Leivo and/or Kapanen will replace JVR's scoring. Not going to happen, at least not immediately. JVR has some very useful positive attributes - standing in front screening the goalie, great hands in close - but what else does he offer? He's not particularly fast, not great along the boards (not physical at all for his size), not great defensively. So if you can move him to bring in someone who actually improves the defense, and you bring in NHL ready Kapanen who is more tenacious, faster, good along the boards, potential PKer, will chip in some scoring - the overall team could be improved even if the scoring drops off a bit. There is some risk to be sure, but pretty much everyone agrees we need to shore up the back end.

I don't think this team is ready to challenge for the cup right now so the smartest approach might be to move him if the return is decent, and especially if it improves the defense.

This. You can't just look at replacing JvR's scoring, but the overall impact of moving him. I'm fairly confident the Leafs have a guy internally that can score ~20 instead of JvR's ~30, but while also being better defensively and improving other areas of the team - and that could very easily put the team in a better position moving forward.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 07, 2018, 12:23:07 PM
Once again...the idea isn't that Leivo and/or Kapanen will replace JVR's scoring. Not going to happen, at least not immediately. JVR has some very useful positive attributes - standing in front screening the goalie, great hands in close - but what else does he offer? He's not particularly fast, not great along the boards (not physical at all for his size), not great defensively. So if you can move him to bring in someone who actually improves the defense, and you bring in NHL ready Kapanen who is more tenacious, faster, good along the boards, potential PKer, will chip in some scoring - the overall team could be improved even if the scoring drops off a bit. There is some risk to be sure, but pretty much everyone agrees we need to shore up the back end.

I don't think this team is ready to challenge for the cup right now so the smartest approach might be to move him if the return is decent, and especially if it improves the defense.

This. You can't just look at replacing JvR's scoring, but the overall impact of moving him. I'm fairly confident the Leafs have a guy internally that can score ~20 instead of JvR's ~30, but while also being better defensively and improving other areas of the team - and that could very easily put the team in a better position moving forward.

Good points all.  And I would personally focus on getting Kapanen in the line-up.  I don't quite get the focus on Leivo.  He looks like a classic tweener to me.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2018, 01:23:27 PM
Yeah, I think not only is Kapanen better than Leivo right now, he has a higher ceiling. That said, I don't think we really know what Leivo could do with more ice time higher in the lineup. Maybe his limitations are evident to the coaching staff (via practice) but he doesn't look bad when he's in the lineup, especially considering his linemates.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 09, 2018, 12:37:32 PM
https://theathletic.com/206841/2018/01/09/mirtle-travis-dermott-could-and-probably-should-change-the-maple-leafs-trade-deadline-plans/

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

The TSN intermission crew mentioned something similar to this last night: isn't keeping JvR basically our deadline rental purchase?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on January 09, 2018, 07:00:54 PM
I'd still try to bring in a de Hann / Pysyk / Petrovic player.

My understanding is that Petrovic isn't having a good year in Florida and has been scratched some games... Seems like a good buy low candidate.  Leivo + pick/prospect?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 09, 2018, 07:46:58 PM
https://theathletic.com/206841/2018/01/09/mirtle-travis-dermott-could-and-probably-should-change-the-maple-leafs-trade-deadline-plans/

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

The TSN intermission crew mentioned something similar to this last night: isn't keeping JvR basically our deadline rental purchase?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

Well, he's two games in so maybe all such speculation is just a wee bit premature.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Dappleganger on January 09, 2018, 08:54:59 PM
This link comes from the future. Weird.

http://www.breakingnews365.net/594894ce9255b/toronto-maple-leafs-have-traded-d-jake-gardiner-to-the-chicago-blackhawks-for-d-brent-seabrook.html
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 09, 2018, 08:58:57 PM
This link comes from the future. Weird.

http://www.breakingnews365.net/594894ce9255b/toronto-maple-leafs-have-traded-d-jake-gardiner-to-the-chicago-blackhawks-for-d-brent-seabrook.html

Seems legit. ;D
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 10, 2018, 05:17:13 PM
https://theathletic.com/206841/2018/01/09/mirtle-travis-dermott-could-and-probably-should-change-the-maple-leafs-trade-deadline-plans/

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

The TSN intermission crew mentioned something similar to this last night: isn't keeping JvR basically our deadline rental purchase?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

Well, he's two games in so maybe all such speculation is just a wee bit premature.

If not from me, take it from someone who professionally watched him play:
https://theathletic.com/208215/2018/01/10/bourne-leafs-d-is-now-a-rotation-but-travis-dermotts-play-is-going-to-end-that-quickly/
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 10, 2018, 10:35:32 PM
https://theathletic.com/206841/2018/01/09/mirtle-travis-dermott-could-and-probably-should-change-the-maple-leafs-trade-deadline-plans/

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

The TSN intermission crew mentioned something similar to this last night: isn't keeping JvR basically our deadline rental purchase?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

Well, he's two games in so maybe all such speculation is just a wee bit premature.

If not from me, take it from someone who professionally watched him play:
https://theathletic.com/208215/2018/01/10/bourne-leafs-d-is-now-a-rotation-but-travis-dermotts-play-is-going-to-end-that-quickly/

Hard to take your advice when you keep citing people behind a paywall.  Can you just summarize in a couple of sentences?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 10, 2018, 10:42:09 PM
Hard to take your advice when you keep citing people behind a paywall.  Can you just summarize in a couple of sentences?

He's good.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 10, 2018, 10:44:48 PM
Hard to take your advice when you keep citing people behind a paywall.  Can you just summarize in a couple of sentences?

He's good.

Look, if you want to have a discussion (and this is by golly a discussion board) then make it possible.  Otherwise just ignore my comments.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 11, 2018, 02:30:40 PM
Clearly I was just trolling, but seeing as how this is a discussion board, you are more than welcome to bring your own research/opinions to the table.

For those that aren't as familiar with Dermott yet, and don't want to go to the above link for the tasty videos, Jeff Veillette put a lot of work into a pre-season prospect ranking on his own and released it publicly once the season got under way.

Dermott was ranked #3 (http://faceoffcircle.ca/2017/09/30/2017-leafs-top-prospects-3-travis-dermott/) on his list (http://faceoffcircle.ca/2017/10/28/public-release-2017-leafs-prospect-rankings/). The article is worth a perusal, as is the rest of the list. Jeff posted a follow-up (http://faceoffcircle.ca/2018/01/05/travis-dermott-earned-call-maple-leafs/) when Dermott was recalled, which gives an update on what he's been doing with the Marlies lately.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: L K on January 11, 2018, 05:05:52 PM
Hard to take your advice when you keep citing people behind a paywall.  Can you just summarize in a couple of sentences?

He's good.

Look, if you want to have a discussion (and this is by golly a discussion board) then make it possible.  Otherwise just ignore my comments.

The article didn't say a whole lot.  It was pretty much a brief puff piece that Dermott is awesome and that he is likely to break out of the "5/6/7" rotation quickly as the front runner for a permanent roster spot.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 14, 2018, 01:05:58 PM
The website-that-shall-not-be-named with an article today about why the Canucks should trade Tanev now. The argument basically boils down to him being good and the Canucks not. His injury history is always a concern but the Leafs are pretty desperate for an upgrade. I think we should be making him our prime target, and going pretty hard on him. Him or Severson, but Tanev seems more acquirable.

Ray Ferraro and Mike Johnson both suggested he could get a 1st rounder (from a playoff team) plus a B level prospect in return. I'd do our 1st rounder (or Kapanen in it's place) + someone like Andrew Nielsen. Throw Carrick in there too for kicks. Him and Rielly played together at the World Championships last season so there's some familiarity there. Makes our defence look something like:

Rielly-Tanev
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott/Borgman-Hainsey
Polak

edit: The Canucks seem like a team that would be higher on Gauthier than most should be, so this could be a chance to get some really good value for him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 14, 2018, 01:48:32 PM
The website-that-shall-not-be-named with an article today about why the Canucks should trade Tanev now.

If we can get him for Gauthier, or Carrick, or Leivo, or Rychel, or Bracco, or Nielsen (or 3-4 of them) + a whatever middle pick, you take it and you run. And then you laugh at Chiarelli all the way, but you run like you stole it.

Edit: the Canucks have contract room (45/50) and literally nothing in the minors. A Grabner-esque trade of multiples of our B/C prospects would do them more good than draft picks and they should really consider it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 14, 2018, 01:55:29 PM
The website-that-shall-not-be-named with an article today about why the Canucks should trade Tanev now.

If we can get him for Gauthier, or Carrick, or Leivo, or Rychel, or Bracco, or Nielsen (or 3-4 of them) + a whatever middle pick, you take it and you run. And then you laugh at Chiarelli all the way, but you run like you stole it.

Edit: the Canucks have contract room (45/50) and literally nothing in the minors. A Grabner-esque trade of multiples of our B/C prospects would do them more good than draft picks and they should really consider it.

Gotta think they'll need at least one big piece like a 1st rounder or Kapanen, but if there's a GM out there that Lou could fleece it's Benning.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 14, 2018, 03:52:57 PM
Gotta think they'll need at least one big piece like a 1st rounder or Kapanen, but if there's a GM out there that Lou could fleece it's Benning.

I think Benning'll ask, sure, but who else would give them so many surefire depth pieces? How often does a late (playoff) 1st rounder yield an NHLer? They can have Bracco, for feeding Boeser. USHL kids!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 15, 2018, 10:23:26 AM
A less flashy move that I could see the Leafs making is trying to swap Carrick (plus maybe a sweetener) for a righty from another organization that's also not being used very much or fallen out of favour. Petrovic or Pysyk from Florida were the first two guys to come to mind.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on January 15, 2018, 11:13:37 AM
A less flashy move that I could see the Leafs making is trying to swap Carrick (plus maybe a sweetener) for a righty from another organization that's also not being used very much or fallen out of favour. Petrovic or Pysyk from Florida were the first two guys to come to mind.

This is what I'm hoping for.

Reilly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Pysyk/Petrovic
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: disco on January 15, 2018, 01:45:15 PM
This looks good, let's have this. Anyone have an Accelerator 5000:

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Liljegren
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 15, 2018, 02:00:05 PM
Quote
The Arizona Coyotes are believed to be looking to trade defenceman Jason Demers, sources close to the organization have told TFP.

Demers, 29, has three-years left on his contract. The Coyotes acquired him on Sept. 17, 2017 in exchange for forward Jamie McGinn.

He comes with a $3.9375 million salary cap hit, though his overall cap hit is $4.5 million the Panthers retained $562,500 of his salary as part of trading him to Arizona.

The native of Dorval, Quebec, also owns an eight-team no-trade list and will have a slight say in where he ends up, if traded.

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/jan-2018/demers-could-be-traded-by-deadline

I was pretty big on the Demers train when Florida was looking to trade him. He's been having a very good season so far (50.73% CF on a 46.76% team, while playing tough minutes (alongside OEL). I was going to bring his name up earlier as a trade option but I didn't think the Coyotes would move him. If they are looking at that the Leafs should 100% be inquiring. That's two defencemen now rumoured to be available that would be perfect fits for our blueline (along with Tanev).
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 15, 2018, 02:33:36 PM
Tier the (available) DMan Trade Pool for me, brother Carlton (et al).

Very expensive but wow, which Babsocks should I wear to the parade?: Karlsson, Doughty
Solid but pretty pricey:
SLAM DUNK:
That was easy... maybe too easy:
What the hell, Lou?: Keep Polak
Dale Tallon Special: Gudbranson
Peter Chiarelli Style:

Pool: Doughty, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson, Pysyk, Petrovic, Demers, Tanev, Gudbranson, Severson, Green, De Haan, Murray, Trouba, Myers, Schenn, Franson, Cole, Hickey, Carlson, etc. I don't even know if some of these are even available, but the bold are RHD.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 15, 2018, 02:40:07 PM
Oh man, it's not too late for Luke Schenn to be our future captain!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 15, 2018, 02:50:20 PM
Oh man, it's not too late for Luke Schenn to be our future captain!

I'd classify trading for Schenn again as a Dale Tallon Special. Maybe we can trade him for Konecny later. Depreciation and all.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bill_Berg on January 15, 2018, 08:09:06 PM
Tier the (available) DMan Trade Pool for me, brother Carlton (et al).

Very expensive but wow, which Babsocks should I wear to the parade?: Karlsson, Doughty
Solid but pretty pricey:
SLAM DUNK:
That was easy... maybe too easy:
What the hell, Lou?: Keep Polak
Dale Tallon Special: Gudbranson
Peter Chiarelli Style:

Pool: Doughty, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson, Pysyk, Petrovic, Demers, Tanev, Gudbranson, Severson, Green, De Haan, Murray, Trouba, Myers, Schenn, Franson, Cole, Hickey, Carlson, etc. I don't even know if some of these are even available, but the bold are RHD.

I added and subtracted some and since you put keep Polak in the What the hell, Lou category, I figured the two below that category were on par with it.

Very expensive but wow, which Babsocks should I wear to the parade?: Karlsson, Doughty, Ekman-Larsson (I don't think they're giving him up for peanuts, even cashews)
Solid but pretty pricey: Trouba
SLAM DUNK: Demers, Tanev
That was easy... maybe too easy: Pysyk, Petrovic, Green, Franson, Cole, Johnson
What the hell, Lou?: Keep Polak, Schenn
Dale Tallon Special: Gudbranson
Peter Chiarelli Style: Ceci, Martin

Pool: Doughty, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson, Pysyk, Petrovic, Demers, Tanev, Gudbranson, Severson, Green, De Haan, Murray, Trouba, Myers, Schenn, Franson, Cole, Hickey, Carlson, etc. I don't even know if some of these are even available, but the bold are RHD.