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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: slapshot on January 03, 2018, 02:01:21 PM

Title: Trade Deadline
Post by: slapshot on January 03, 2018, 02:01:21 PM
I think it's pretty obvious the Lou and Co. need to step up and make a deal or two to augment-support this team as currently structured.

Once Zaitsev gets back, it would be fantastic is they could somehow secure that elusive top 4 right-handed d-man, ideally to be matched with Rielly. Not complaints about Hainsey, but getting a stronger right handed shot with Rielly would not only strengthen the top pairing but also allow Hainsey to slide in the 3 pairing alongside Borgman. Polak tries hard but lacks mobility. Carrick has mobility but lack the physical strength. Hainsey at least has a bit of both, and is more experienced with the puck than either of them. I think his stability would be an aide to Borgman, less running around.

It will be interesting to see what happens with Bozak, Komo and JVR. If the Leafs want to make a splash on D, something has to give.

Like Freddy the Goat last night. He was solid. If he continues to improve, Moore will be on the outside looking in. I don't mind Moore, but he occasionally takes undisciplined penalties, not what you would expect from a 4th line defensive veteran player.   

I still like the idea of Marner eventually playing centre instead of Nylander (who I like on the wing with Matthews). He's fun to watch and a natural playmaker. With JVR on one wing and either Brown or Kapanen on the right side, I don't think that line would be hurting.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 03, 2018, 02:14:37 PM

This is about the trade deadline?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: LuncheonMeat on January 03, 2018, 02:41:04 PM

This is about the trade deadline?

In that it's prior to the trade deadline, yes.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 03, 2018, 02:55:15 PM
Considering the Leafs' path goes through Tampa Bay, and they look like an unstoppable juggernaut right now - even if the Leafs' played them well last night - this would not be the year I give up assets at the deadline to load up for a playoff run. The strategy for this deadline should probably be offload some of the replaceable parts (Komarov specifically, some other smaller pieces like Moore possibly), and add some assets to use in deals to supplement the team at the draft/in the summer.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 03, 2018, 03:01:15 PM
Considering the Leafs' path goes through Tampa Bay, and they look like an unstoppable juggernaut right now - even if the Leafs' played them well last night - this would not be the year I give up assets at the deadline to load up for a playoff run. The strategy for this deadline should probably be offload some of the replaceable parts (Komarov specifically, some other smaller pieces like Moore possibly), and add some assets to use in deals to supplement the team at the draft/in the summer.

If anything, play down to 4th in the division and take your chances with the Metro for the harder first round and easier second round, and a hopefully injury depleted Tampa Bay squad.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 03, 2018, 03:47:27 PM

If anything, play down to 4th in the division and take your chances with the Metro for the harder first round and easier second round, and a hopefully injury depleted Tampa Bay squad.
If the Leafs were 4th in our division they'd be out of the playoffs. Florida is currently 4th with 39pts(6th in the wildcard race). Only the top 3 in each division make the playoffs. The rest from both division battle for the wild card. If the Leafs stay where they are they'll play Boston and Tampa will play the 2nd wildcard team.

(https://www.printyourbrackets.com/images/nhl-playoff-bracket.png)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 03, 2018, 03:58:25 PM
Oh thanks! I meant whichever wildcard faces the Metro division #1.
Now I feel guilty.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on January 03, 2018, 04:05:30 PM
Like last year, probably be Washington....
Anyway, most likely the wildcard will come from the Metro, so it's going to be a good team going against Tampa if they remain in 1st. I like our chances against Boston should it end up that way. Lots of hockey left tho.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 03, 2018, 04:15:49 PM
Considering the Leafs' path goes through Tampa Bay, and they look like an unstoppable juggernaut right now - even if the Leafs' played them well last night - this would not be the year I give up assets at the deadline to load up for a playoff run. The strategy for this deadline should probably be offload some of the replaceable parts (Komarov specifically, some other smaller pieces like Moore possibly), and add some assets to use in deals to supplement the team at the draft/in the summer.

^ up there.  This is Year Two of a multi-year process to get to contender status.  Patience.  It will take at least 2 more years to get the back end up to snuff, and even then we are unlikely to have the talent level TB now has.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on January 03, 2018, 04:25:40 PM
Considering the Leafs' path goes through Tampa Bay, and they look like an unstoppable juggernaut right now - even if the Leafs' played them well last night - this would not be the year I give up assets at the deadline to load up for a playoff run. The strategy for this deadline should probably be offload some of the replaceable parts (Komarov specifically, some other smaller pieces like Moore possibly), and add some assets to use in deals to supplement the team at the draft/in the summer.
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 03, 2018, 04:33:25 PM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on January 03, 2018, 06:13:34 PM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.

I'm with busta here...centre depth isn't great right now, but I suppose Marleau could move there to ride out the year.  There's a post on PPP that's suggesting the Leafs should chase Pacioretty.  The post suggests a pretty massive package that I can't even get my head around for a guy with only 1 year left on his deal.

Trading JVR, Komarov, and Bozak, and Moore, I have a feeling that's why the goat is getting a look.  This season looks to me just like last year...they're just not ready to take the next step yet. 

And another thing...anyone thinking that Leivo and Kapanen can replace the offense of Bozak and JVR is dreaming.  Neither guys are even regular NHLers at this point, and suggesting they replace guys who combine for over 100 points a season is bananas.  If Kapanen and Leivo are playing in those kind of roles, they've thrown in the towel on the season.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 03, 2018, 06:25:23 PM
For the life of me, I can't figure out why Pacioretty's nickname isn't Maxi Patch.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on January 03, 2018, 07:29:43 PM
For the life of me, I can't figure out why Pacioretty's nickname isn't Maxi Patch.
Funny Herman.... 8)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bill_Berg on January 03, 2018, 09:30:25 PM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.

I'm with busta here...centre depth isn't great right now, but I suppose Marleau could move there to ride out the year.  There's a post on PPP that's suggesting the Leafs should chase Pacioretty.  The post suggests a pretty massive package that I can't even get my head around for a guy with only 1 year left on his deal.

Trading JVR, Komarov, and Bozak, and Moore, I have a feeling that's why the goat is getting a look.  This season looks to me just like last year...they're just not ready to take the next step yet. 

And another thing...anyone thinking that Leivo and Kapanen can replace the offense of Bozak and JVR is dreaming.  Neither guys are even regular NHLers at this point, and suggesting they replace guys who combine for over 100 points a season is bananas.  If Kapanen and Leivo are playing in those kind of roles, they've thrown in the towel on the season.

I wouldn't want to see Marleau have a permanent role at center. I would like to see them pick up another reliable center, a guy that you can trust defensively, as well as another defenseman or two. But any deal has to be right too, no breaking the bank for this season.

I think Gauthier is up so they can take a look at what they have. No expectations until they see what he can do for a few games.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 03, 2018, 11:13:46 PM
Gauthier's not fast enough to play in this league now.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on January 04, 2018, 07:51:47 AM
Gauthier's not fast enough to play in this league now.

He's faster than Brian Boyle who's been pretty successful in this league.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on January 04, 2018, 10:54:20 AM
Need to see more of Goat but speed didn't look to be a problem to me. He doesn't appear to be particularly agile but his long reach can make up for that to a degree. Looked competent on the PK and in his own end for the most part. I think he can play in this league.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 04, 2018, 11:03:14 AM
I'm starting to think that it's more likely that JVR and/or Bozak will get re-signed than it is that they'll get traded. I think one of them walks on July 1st and the other is brought back. Not sure which one. Not saying that's what I would do, that's just my gut feeling.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 04, 2018, 11:03:58 AM
Need to see more of Goat but speed didn't look to be a problem to me. He doesn't appear to be particularly agile but his long reach can make up for that to a degree. Looked competent on the PK and in his own end for the most part. I think he can play in this league.

Yeah. For a 4th line C and PKer, I don't think the speed is a big issue. He'll be on the ice against slower players or in a role where his size will make up for a good deal of his lack of footspeed.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 04, 2018, 12:01:25 PM
I'm starting to think that it's more likely that JVR and/or Bozak will get re-signed than it is that they'll get traded. I think one of them walks on July 1st and the other is brought back. Not sure which one. Not saying that's what I would do, that's just my gut feeling.

I've been feeling that for the past couple of months, but solely for JvR.

The front office really really likes him (like really). His game as a skilled complementary winger doesn't really impede any of our star players (who need the puck) as he just goes to the front and does his thing. He plays a position where we are organizationally shallow, he is a fanatic about hockey and the professional athlete's upkeep (he wants to be Marleau), and he is a true student of the game.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 04, 2018, 12:24:55 PM
I've been feeling that for the past couple of months, but solely for JvR.

The front office really really likes him (like really). His game as a skilled complementary winger doesn't really impede any of our star players (who need the puck) as he just goes to the front and does his thing. He plays a position where we are organizationally shallow, he is a fanatic about hockey and the professional athlete's upkeep (he wants to be Marleau), and he is a true student of the game.

Yeah, I really feel like we're going to see that Oshie-style deal with him. $5.75mil x 8 years.

Then with Bozak I think he'll be offered a 3-year deal with a slightly reduced salary, say $3.8mil. He turns 32 in March, and I don't see him getting a contract much more than that. I think people around the league know that he's not capable of being a 2C on a good team. I'm sure some teams could offer him a little more than that but I could see him wanting to stay here where he's comfortable. If he takes it, great. If not, the Leafs will have to look at other options externally. I don't think the they want Nylander there quite yet.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on January 04, 2018, 12:34:06 PM
I understand the desire to have Nylander at center, but he and Matthews work so well together. Maybe we have someone else in the system who can step into the RW position with Matthews, but I don't think he's currently on the roster. Brown doesn't work, Leivo...hasn't been tried but I think he's too similar to Hyman (with a better shot). Maybe the better approach will be to replace Hyman. Maybe Kapanen would work well with Matthews.

As for JVR...I have mixed feelings. A lot of games he seems to really not do much, you don't really notice him. He's not great along the boards, not overly fast, doesn't really drive play by himself. But he is great at what he does - score from in close, screen, etc. Great hands. So how much of the cap is that worth, and for how many years. 8 years seems like a long time.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 04, 2018, 12:41:02 PM
I've been feeling that for the past couple of months, but solely for JvR.

The front office really really likes him (like really). His game as a skilled complementary winger doesn't really impede any of our star players (who need the puck) as he just goes to the front and does his thing. He plays a position where we are organizationally shallow, he is a fanatic about hockey and the professional athlete's upkeep (he wants to be Marleau), and he is a true student of the game.

Yeah, I really feel like we're going to see that Oshie-style deal with him. $5.75mil x 8 years.

Then with Bozak I think he'll be offered a 3-year deal with a slightly reduced salary, say $3.8mil. He turns 32 in March, and I don't see him getting a contract much more than that. I think people around the league know that he's not capable of being a 2C on a good team. I'm sure some teams could offer him a little more than that but I could see him wanting to stay here where he's comfortable. If he takes it, great. If not, the Leafs will have to look at other options externally. I don't think the they want Nylander there quite yet.

JvR himself also doesn't really care about money (not like Karlsson or Doughty); his agent probably does, but he himself has said he really wants to stay here somewhat regardless of the cost.

My problem with Bozak is that he currently can't anchor a sheltered scoring line, which is really how deep playoff drives tend to happen (which is why JvR might be considered critical). Maybe Bozak turns it up for the stretch drive and proves me wrong. I can see him getting re-signed for 3ish as well on very short term. The front office seems to really like setting up temporary veterans and seeing which developing player will force their hand in supplanting them.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 04, 2018, 12:46:15 PM
Even though I hate long term UFA overspends, even the most inept GM seems to get out from them scott-free after at most a year or two of frustration.

JvR's playstyle has longevity to it, so as long as he can keep skating, he'll still quietly produce near the top of the team with limited minutes.

The cap amount is going up next year by 5M. There's a potential buyout window opening with the CBA expiry in a couple of years, as well as expansion teams opening up within an 8 year timeframe for creative dump-off solutions.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 04, 2018, 01:09:41 PM
One guy who I would target on defence would be New Jersey's Damon Severson. 23 years old, right handed shot, signed to a 6-year deal that just started with a cap hit of $4.166mil. He's sort of like a poor mans Anton Stralman (but not that much poorer).

There aren't really any hard rumours that he's available, but the trade for Vatanen and the play of another righty Steven Santini seems to have bumped him down the line-up. And he's about to be a healthy scratch for a 2nd straight game (plus he was healthy scratched earlier this season too even before the Vatanen trade).
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 04, 2018, 04:39:58 PM
One guy who I would target on defence would be New Jersey's Damon Severson. 23 years old, right handed shot, signed to a 6-year deal that just started with a cap hit of $4.166mil. He's sort of like a poor mans Anton Stralman (but not that much poorer).

There aren't really any hard rumours that he's available, but the trade for Vatanen and the play of another righty Steven Santini seems to have bumped him down the line-up. And he's about to be a healthy scratch for a 2nd straight game (plus he was healthy scratched earlier this season too even before the Vatanen trade).

https://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2018/1/3/16842812/public-service-announcement-damon-severson-is-the-devils-best-defender

CtB... are you... All About the Jersey?

I for one have always kind of liked Severson and thought he was the only defenseman they had.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on January 04, 2018, 07:33:30 PM
There's no way that Babcock can like JvR that much... He floats a lot lately... Frequently late to loose pucks...

I know he scores a lot, but I do t hink he'll be worth his new contract... I hope they don't sign him and take a chance on a UFA or an internal promotion.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on January 04, 2018, 08:06:05 PM
I agree, he seems to be floating a lot. JVR tune into the PVR
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on January 04, 2018, 09:02:29 PM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.

I'm with busta here...centre depth isn't great right now, but I suppose Marleau could move there to ride out the year.  There's a post on PPP that's suggesting the Leafs should chase Pacioretty.  The post suggests a pretty massive package that I can't even get my head around for a guy with only 1 year left on his deal.

Trading JVR, Komarov, and Bozak, and Moore, I have a feeling that's why the goat is getting a look.  This season looks to me just like last year...they're just not ready to take the next step yet. 

And another thing...anyone thinking that Leivo and Kapanen can replace the offense of Bozak and JVR is dreaming.  Neither guys are even regular NHLers at this point, and suggesting they replace guys who combine for over 100 points a season is bananas.  If Kapanen and Leivo are playing in those kind of roles, they've thrown in the towel on the season.
Kapanen and Leivo won't replace Bozak and Van Riemdyk's scoring, sure, but the Leafs would hopefully get a couple of good defensemen out of the deal that they sorely need.  Leivo and Kapanen aren't doing the team any good in the press box or in the minors.  Leivo in particular has got to be getting pretty frustrated.  He's done well when he's played and he has never once been rewarded.  I quite like him personally.  Kapanen is skilled also.  We'll see what the front office does.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on January 05, 2018, 09:00:13 AM
Marc Bergevin has started the trading frenzy by dealing highly sought after quasi-Cuban goaltender Al (Tony) Montoya to the Oilers for a 4th!

https://www.nhl.com/news/al-montoya-traded-to-oilers-by-canadiens/c-294670246


How will other GMs respond with this earth shattering move???
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: OldTimeHockey on January 07, 2018, 07:49:50 AM
Yeah but what if they do something wily like trade Van Riemsdyk, Bozak, and Komarov for defensive help, and then let Kapanen and Leivo play every day?  That would be a great move IMO.

Moving JvR depends strongly on the return - too weak, and it gives the impression they're throwing in the towel. As for Bozak, they're just not deep enough down the middle to move him without bringing another C in - so, again, seems like throwing in the towel. Unless they really fall off to bubble team status, I don't think either of those two get moved unless there's a huge offer on the table.

I'm with busta here...centre depth isn't great right now, but I suppose Marleau could move there to ride out the year.  There's a post on PPP that's suggesting the Leafs should chase Pacioretty.  The post suggests a pretty massive package that I can't even get my head around for a guy with only 1 year left on his deal.

Trading JVR, Komarov, and Bozak, and Moore, I have a feeling that's why the goat is getting a look.  This season looks to me just like last year...they're just not ready to take the next step yet. 

And another thing...anyone thinking that Leivo and Kapanen can replace the offense of Bozak and JVR is dreaming.  Neither guys are even regular NHLers at this point, and suggesting they replace guys who combine for over 100 points a season is bananas.  If Kapanen and Leivo are playing in those kind of roles, they've thrown in the towel on the season.
Kapanen and Leivo won't replace Bozak and Van Riemdyk's scoring, sure, but the Leafs would hopefully get a couple of good defensemen out of the deal that they sorely need.  Leivo and Kapanen aren't doing the team any good in the press box or in the minors.  Leivo in particular has got to be getting pretty frustrated.  He's done well when he's played and he has never once been rewarded.  I quite like him personally.  Kapanen is skilled also.  We'll see what the front office does.

I watched Leivo through his JR days and from watching him so far in the NHL, his tendencies have not changed. He has good hands and a fairly good shot. His foot speed is fairly slow and his puck decisions can leave you questioning his actual grasp of the game. He also has the tendency to take nights off. Often. That one has yet to be proven as he's yet to play much.

Would I like to see him play more so we at least know what we have? Yes. Do I think he's anywhere close to JVR? Not even. In fact, I'm not sure we'd ever see Leivo be more than a 4th liner that can fill in on the 3rd line from time to time.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2018, 11:26:30 AM
Once again...the idea isn't that Leivo and/or Kapanen will replace JVR's scoring. Not going to happen, at least not immediately. JVR has some very useful positive attributes - standing in front screening the goalie, great hands in close - but what else does he offer? He's not particularly fast, not great along the boards (not physical at all for his size), not great defensively. So if you can move him to bring in someone who actually improves the defense, and you bring in NHL ready Kapanen who is more tenacious, faster, good along the boards, potential PKer, will chip in some scoring - the overall team could be improved even if the scoring drops off a bit. There is some risk to be sure, but pretty much everyone agrees we need to shore up the back end.

I don't think this team is ready to challenge for the cup right now so the smartest approach might be to move him if the return is decent, and especially if it improves the defense.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 07, 2018, 12:07:03 PM
Once again...the idea isn't that Leivo and/or Kapanen will replace JVR's scoring. Not going to happen, at least not immediately. JVR has some very useful positive attributes - standing in front screening the goalie, great hands in close - but what else does he offer? He's not particularly fast, not great along the boards (not physical at all for his size), not great defensively. So if you can move him to bring in someone who actually improves the defense, and you bring in NHL ready Kapanen who is more tenacious, faster, good along the boards, potential PKer, will chip in some scoring - the overall team could be improved even if the scoring drops off a bit. There is some risk to be sure, but pretty much everyone agrees we need to shore up the back end.

I don't think this team is ready to challenge for the cup right now so the smartest approach might be to move him if the return is decent, and especially if it improves the defense.

This. You can't just look at replacing JvR's scoring, but the overall impact of moving him. I'm fairly confident the Leafs have a guy internally that can score ~20 instead of JvR's ~30, but while also being better defensively and improving other areas of the team - and that could very easily put the team in a better position moving forward.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 07, 2018, 12:23:07 PM
Once again...the idea isn't that Leivo and/or Kapanen will replace JVR's scoring. Not going to happen, at least not immediately. JVR has some very useful positive attributes - standing in front screening the goalie, great hands in close - but what else does he offer? He's not particularly fast, not great along the boards (not physical at all for his size), not great defensively. So if you can move him to bring in someone who actually improves the defense, and you bring in NHL ready Kapanen who is more tenacious, faster, good along the boards, potential PKer, will chip in some scoring - the overall team could be improved even if the scoring drops off a bit. There is some risk to be sure, but pretty much everyone agrees we need to shore up the back end.

I don't think this team is ready to challenge for the cup right now so the smartest approach might be to move him if the return is decent, and especially if it improves the defense.

This. You can't just look at replacing JvR's scoring, but the overall impact of moving him. I'm fairly confident the Leafs have a guy internally that can score ~20 instead of JvR's ~30, but while also being better defensively and improving other areas of the team - and that could very easily put the team in a better position moving forward.

Good points all.  And I would personally focus on getting Kapanen in the line-up.  I don't quite get the focus on Leivo.  He looks like a classic tweener to me.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on January 07, 2018, 01:23:27 PM
Yeah, I think not only is Kapanen better than Leivo right now, he has a higher ceiling. That said, I don't think we really know what Leivo could do with more ice time higher in the lineup. Maybe his limitations are evident to the coaching staff (via practice) but he doesn't look bad when he's in the lineup, especially considering his linemates.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 09, 2018, 12:37:32 PM
https://theathletic.com/206841/2018/01/09/mirtle-travis-dermott-could-and-probably-should-change-the-maple-leafs-trade-deadline-plans/

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

The TSN intermission crew mentioned something similar to this last night: isn't keeping JvR basically our deadline rental purchase?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on January 09, 2018, 07:00:54 PM
I'd still try to bring in a de Hann / Pysyk / Petrovic player.

My understanding is that Petrovic isn't having a good year in Florida and has been scratched some games... Seems like a good buy low candidate.  Leivo + pick/prospect?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 09, 2018, 07:46:58 PM
https://theathletic.com/206841/2018/01/09/mirtle-travis-dermott-could-and-probably-should-change-the-maple-leafs-trade-deadline-plans/

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

The TSN intermission crew mentioned something similar to this last night: isn't keeping JvR basically our deadline rental purchase?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

Well, he's two games in so maybe all such speculation is just a wee bit premature.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Dappleganger on January 09, 2018, 08:54:59 PM
This link comes from the future. Weird.

http://www.breakingnews365.net/594894ce9255b/toronto-maple-leafs-have-traded-d-jake-gardiner-to-the-chicago-blackhawks-for-d-brent-seabrook.html
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on January 09, 2018, 08:58:57 PM
This link comes from the future. Weird.

http://www.breakingnews365.net/594894ce9255b/toronto-maple-leafs-have-traded-d-jake-gardiner-to-the-chicago-blackhawks-for-d-brent-seabrook.html

Seems legit. ;D
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 10, 2018, 05:17:13 PM
https://theathletic.com/206841/2018/01/09/mirtle-travis-dermott-could-and-probably-should-change-the-maple-leafs-trade-deadline-plans/

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

The TSN intermission crew mentioned something similar to this last night: isn't keeping JvR basically our deadline rental purchase?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

Well, he's two games in so maybe all such speculation is just a wee bit premature.

If not from me, take it from someone who professionally watched him play:
https://theathletic.com/208215/2018/01/10/bourne-leafs-d-is-now-a-rotation-but-travis-dermotts-play-is-going-to-end-that-quickly/
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 10, 2018, 10:35:32 PM
https://theathletic.com/206841/2018/01/09/mirtle-travis-dermott-could-and-probably-should-change-the-maple-leafs-trade-deadline-plans/

You don't really need to read the article (i.e. have a subscription) to discuss this: What if Dermott is good enough that we don't need to force a trade (i.e. overpay) at the deadline for a defenseman?

The TSN intermission crew mentioned something similar to this last night: isn't keeping JvR basically our deadline rental purchase?

From a managerial perspective, I personally prefer internal options where possible (sunk costs) and only dipping into UFA for either the premiere players (core pieces, in their prime) or sneaky useful barrel scrapings (overlooked analytics options for pump and dump, a la Winnik). What I hate to see are middling/declining players getting paid UFA money by us on an open bid. So the above two scenarios tickles my fancy a bit.

I'd be happy to shed Komarov, Bozak + stalled prospects for picks and things for a middle-6 centre to free up contract room, add to the pick pool, and replace Bozak. Keeping Bozak for the final stretch is also an option, mostly because I don't know who is available to replace him. If there's some way to pry Marcus Johansson or Mikael Backlund free, I'd be very open to it.

Well, he's two games in so maybe all such speculation is just a wee bit premature.

If not from me, take it from someone who professionally watched him play:
https://theathletic.com/208215/2018/01/10/bourne-leafs-d-is-now-a-rotation-but-travis-dermotts-play-is-going-to-end-that-quickly/

Hard to take your advice when you keep citing people behind a paywall.  Can you just summarize in a couple of sentences?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 10, 2018, 10:42:09 PM
Hard to take your advice when you keep citing people behind a paywall.  Can you just summarize in a couple of sentences?

He's good.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 10, 2018, 10:44:48 PM
Hard to take your advice when you keep citing people behind a paywall.  Can you just summarize in a couple of sentences?

He's good.

Look, if you want to have a discussion (and this is by golly a discussion board) then make it possible.  Otherwise just ignore my comments.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 11, 2018, 02:30:40 PM
Clearly I was just trolling, but seeing as how this is a discussion board, you are more than welcome to bring your own research/opinions to the table.

For those that aren't as familiar with Dermott yet, and don't want to go to the above link for the tasty videos, Jeff Veillette put a lot of work into a pre-season prospect ranking on his own and released it publicly once the season got under way.

Dermott was ranked #3 (http://faceoffcircle.ca/2017/09/30/2017-leafs-top-prospects-3-travis-dermott/) on his list (http://faceoffcircle.ca/2017/10/28/public-release-2017-leafs-prospect-rankings/). The article is worth a perusal, as is the rest of the list. Jeff posted a follow-up (http://faceoffcircle.ca/2018/01/05/travis-dermott-earned-call-maple-leafs/) when Dermott was recalled, which gives an update on what he's been doing with the Marlies lately.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: L K on January 11, 2018, 05:05:52 PM
Hard to take your advice when you keep citing people behind a paywall.  Can you just summarize in a couple of sentences?

He's good.

Look, if you want to have a discussion (and this is by golly a discussion board) then make it possible.  Otherwise just ignore my comments.

The article didn't say a whole lot.  It was pretty much a brief puff piece that Dermott is awesome and that he is likely to break out of the "5/6/7" rotation quickly as the front runner for a permanent roster spot.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 14, 2018, 01:05:58 PM
The website-that-shall-not-be-named with an article today about why the Canucks should trade Tanev now. The argument basically boils down to him being good and the Canucks not. His injury history is always a concern but the Leafs are pretty desperate for an upgrade. I think we should be making him our prime target, and going pretty hard on him. Him or Severson, but Tanev seems more acquirable.

Ray Ferraro and Mike Johnson both suggested he could get a 1st rounder (from a playoff team) plus a B level prospect in return. I'd do our 1st rounder (or Kapanen in it's place) + someone like Andrew Nielsen. Throw Carrick in there too for kicks. Him and Rielly played together at the World Championships last season so there's some familiarity there. Makes our defence look something like:

Rielly-Tanev
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott/Borgman-Hainsey
Polak

edit: The Canucks seem like a team that would be higher on Gauthier than most should be, so this could be a chance to get some really good value for him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 14, 2018, 01:48:32 PM
The website-that-shall-not-be-named with an article today about why the Canucks should trade Tanev now.

If we can get him for Gauthier, or Carrick, or Leivo, or Rychel, or Bracco, or Nielsen (or 3-4 of them) + a whatever middle pick, you take it and you run. And then you laugh at Chiarelli all the way, but you run like you stole it.

Edit: the Canucks have contract room (45/50) and literally nothing in the minors. A Grabner-esque trade of multiples of our B/C prospects would do them more good than draft picks and they should really consider it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 14, 2018, 01:55:29 PM
The website-that-shall-not-be-named with an article today about why the Canucks should trade Tanev now.

If we can get him for Gauthier, or Carrick, or Leivo, or Rychel, or Bracco, or Nielsen (or 3-4 of them) + a whatever middle pick, you take it and you run. And then you laugh at Chiarelli all the way, but you run like you stole it.

Edit: the Canucks have contract room (45/50) and literally nothing in the minors. A Grabner-esque trade of multiples of our B/C prospects would do them more good than draft picks and they should really consider it.

Gotta think they'll need at least one big piece like a 1st rounder or Kapanen, but if there's a GM out there that Lou could fleece it's Benning.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 14, 2018, 03:52:57 PM
Gotta think they'll need at least one big piece like a 1st rounder or Kapanen, but if there's a GM out there that Lou could fleece it's Benning.

I think Benning'll ask, sure, but who else would give them so many surefire depth pieces? How often does a late (playoff) 1st rounder yield an NHLer? They can have Bracco, for feeding Boeser. USHL kids!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 15, 2018, 10:23:26 AM
A less flashy move that I could see the Leafs making is trying to swap Carrick (plus maybe a sweetener) for a righty from another organization that's also not being used very much or fallen out of favour. Petrovic or Pysyk from Florida were the first two guys to come to mind.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on January 15, 2018, 11:13:37 AM
A less flashy move that I could see the Leafs making is trying to swap Carrick (plus maybe a sweetener) for a righty from another organization that's also not being used very much or fallen out of favour. Petrovic or Pysyk from Florida were the first two guys to come to mind.

This is what I'm hoping for.

Reilly - Hainsey
Gardiner - Zaitsev
Dermott - Pysyk/Petrovic
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: disco on January 15, 2018, 01:45:15 PM
This looks good, let's have this. Anyone have an Accelerator 5000:

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Liljegren
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 15, 2018, 02:00:05 PM
Quote
The Arizona Coyotes are believed to be looking to trade defenceman Jason Demers, sources close to the organization have told TFP.

Demers, 29, has three-years left on his contract. The Coyotes acquired him on Sept. 17, 2017 in exchange for forward Jamie McGinn.

He comes with a $3.9375 million salary cap hit, though his overall cap hit is $4.5 million the Panthers retained $562,500 of his salary as part of trading him to Arizona.

The native of Dorval, Quebec, also owns an eight-team no-trade list and will have a slight say in where he ends up, if traded.

https://www.thefourthperiod.com/jan-2018/demers-could-be-traded-by-deadline

I was pretty big on the Demers train when Florida was looking to trade him. He's been having a very good season so far (50.73% CF on a 46.76% team, while playing tough minutes (alongside OEL). I was going to bring his name up earlier as a trade option but I didn't think the Coyotes would move him. If they are looking at that the Leafs should 100% be inquiring. That's two defencemen now rumoured to be available that would be perfect fits for our blueline (along with Tanev).
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 15, 2018, 02:33:36 PM
Tier the (available) DMan Trade Pool for me, brother Carlton (et al).

Very expensive but wow, which Babsocks should I wear to the parade?: Karlsson, Doughty
Solid but pretty pricey:
SLAM DUNK:
That was easy... maybe too easy:
What the hell, Lou?: Keep Polak
Dale Tallon Special: Gudbranson
Peter Chiarelli Style:

Pool: Doughty, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson, Pysyk, Petrovic, Demers, Tanev, Gudbranson, Severson, Green, De Haan, Murray, Trouba, Myers, Schenn, Franson, Cole, Hickey, Carlson, etc. I don't even know if some of these are even available, but the bold are RHD.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 15, 2018, 02:40:07 PM
Oh man, it's not too late for Luke Schenn to be our future captain!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 15, 2018, 02:50:20 PM
Oh man, it's not too late for Luke Schenn to be our future captain!

I'd classify trading for Schenn again as a Dale Tallon Special. Maybe we can trade him for Konecny later. Depreciation and all.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bill_Berg on January 15, 2018, 08:09:06 PM
Tier the (available) DMan Trade Pool for me, brother Carlton (et al).

Very expensive but wow, which Babsocks should I wear to the parade?: Karlsson, Doughty
Solid but pretty pricey:
SLAM DUNK:
That was easy... maybe too easy:
What the hell, Lou?: Keep Polak
Dale Tallon Special: Gudbranson
Peter Chiarelli Style:

Pool: Doughty, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson, Pysyk, Petrovic, Demers, Tanev, Gudbranson, Severson, Green, De Haan, Murray, Trouba, Myers, Schenn, Franson, Cole, Hickey, Carlson, etc. I don't even know if some of these are even available, but the bold are RHD.

I added and subtracted some and since you put keep Polak in the What the hell, Lou category, I figured the two below that category were on par with it.

Very expensive but wow, which Babsocks should I wear to the parade?: Karlsson, Doughty, Ekman-Larsson (I don't think they're giving him up for peanuts, even cashews)
Solid but pretty pricey: Trouba
SLAM DUNK: Demers, Tanev
That was easy... maybe too easy: Pysyk, Petrovic, Green, Franson, Cole, Johnson
What the hell, Lou?: Keep Polak, Schenn
Dale Tallon Special: Gudbranson
Peter Chiarelli Style: Ceci, Martin

Pool: Doughty, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson, Pysyk, Petrovic, Demers, Tanev, Gudbranson, Severson, Green, De Haan, Murray, Trouba, Myers, Schenn, Franson, Cole, Hickey, Carlson, etc. I don't even know if some of these are even available, but the bold are RHD.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 16, 2018, 08:37:56 AM
I added and subtracted some and since you put keep Polak in the What the hell, Lou category, I figured the two below that category were on par with it.

Very expensive but wow, which Babsocks should I wear to the parade?: Karlsson, Doughty, Ekman-Larsson (I don't think they're giving him up for peanuts, even cashews)
Solid but pretty pricey: Trouba
SLAM DUNK: Demers, Tanev
That was easy... maybe too easy: Pysyk, Petrovic, Green, Franson, Cole, Johnson
What the hell, Lou?: Keep Polak, Schenn
Dale Tallon Special: Gudbranson
Peter Chiarelli Style: Ceci, Martin

Pool: Doughty, Karlsson, Ekman-Larsson, Pysyk, Petrovic, Demers, Tanev, Gudbranson, Severson, Green, De Haan, Murray, Trouba, Myers, Schenn, Franson, Cole, Hickey, Carlson, etc. I don't even know if some of these are even available, but the bold are RHD.

The Dale Tallon Special and the Peter Chiarelli Style categories are similar, but worse than What the hell, Lou? WTHL is like... old schoolish but a considered selection; Dale Tallon Specials are boomerang buys that are as anti-fancy-stats as possible; Peter Chiarelli Style could also be called Character First/Let's Lose.

I think I might slot OEL with Trouba, but under him (handedness preference and playstyle).

By the way, That was easy... maybe too easy is the category for the players that we can get for a song, but have very clear compromises we would need to work around (e.g. Franson, Green).

I think John Carlson would be a sneaky solid UFA get if the Capitals continue to shoot themselves in the foot via Cap spending and manage to not afford him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 16, 2018, 09:48:37 AM
Very expensive but wow, which Babsocks should I wear to the parade?: Karlsson, Doughty, Ekman-Larsson (I don't think they're giving him up for peanuts, even cashews)
Solid but pretty pricey: Trouba
SLAM DUNK: Demers, Tanev
That was easy... maybe too easy: Pysyk, Petrovic, Green, Franson, Cole, Johnson
What the hell, Lou?: Keep Polak, Schenn
Dale Tallon Special: Gudbranson
Peter Chiarelli Style: Ceci, Martin

I'm good with almost all of these so instead of making my own I'll just say where I'd make changes.

Green would go down to the "What the hell, Lou?" category. He's a good player, but I don't see any fit with this team. Green will be a solid addition to any team that needs a sheltered PP guy, but that's not really us. Honestly I'm not even sure Babcock would play him on a healthy defence. He wouldn't bump Hainsey or Zaitsev out of the top-4 and if Babs needs a PK guy then Polak gets the call over him. He'd also likely cost a 1st round pick and again while that might be a fair cost for a team who needs him, it's not for us.

Cole and Johnson are interesting options, but they're both bottom pairing lefties. It might make sense to acquire them if it meant that Babcock would be fine playing Dermott or Borgman on the left side and that Polak would be bumped out of the line-up. But I think the cost for those guys might out-weight the benefits especially since they're both UFAs and almost certainly wouldn't be brought back. So they might go down to the "What the hell, Lou?" category as well just because it'd be a misuse of assets.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on January 16, 2018, 10:14:41 AM
The list of players clearly better than Dermott from the pool of availables is... very sparse and mostly very expensive.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 02, 2018, 08:01:01 PM
The list of players clearly better than Dermott from the pool of availables is... very sparse and mostly very expensive.

Given this last little spurt, which gives an intriguing glimpse at what the team can do, I for one will be very disappointed if anyone other than the 3 veteran UFAs + Polak/Martin are moved before the deadline.  Given that the best-by date for trading Bozak/JVR/Leo has passed, I could even accept if they stand pat, though I think it would still be best to get what they can for at least one of those 3.  This year is still about building, not trying to make a run for the Cup that almost certainly go up in a Lightning-ignited fire (if they get even that far).
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: slapshot on February 03, 2018, 08:11:05 AM
I personally don't see the Leafs trading any of JVR, Bozak or Komorov at the trade deadline, unless it is such a great offer they can't refuse and upgrades the current team. They won't subject from the existing lineup to a sell off in personnel as that would be sending the wrong message to a team that wants to win.  Babcock made it pretty clear this week, he's all about add not subtract. I think they hang on to all of them for as long a playoff run as possible, and then the Leafs wait to see what's going to happen with Taveras. If they have a real shot at him (he decides he wants out of the Islanders), they would likely dump all 3 of the contracts to make room. I think the Leafs are more likely to let their young d-man develop and see what they have for another year and take a shot at Taveras. If they don't get him. I could see them maybe resigning some of their pending UFAs and trying to take shot at Doughty next year depending on the development of their young d-men and where the Nylander and Marner contracts close at (Nylander's probably sets the bar for Marner unless Marner has a crazy good or bad following season). I think it's pretty clear Matthews will be in the 10-12 K range. Anyway that's my take.
While everyone including myself was anxious to see the Leafs add a right-handed d-man to strengthen the back end, I think now Shanny and Lou have wisely been patient and let these young d-men develop to see what they have. The cupboard may not have been as bare as first thought.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 03, 2018, 02:19:15 PM
The list of players clearly better than Dermott from the pool of availables is... very sparse and mostly very expensive.

Given this last little spurt, which gives an intriguing glimpse at what the team can do, I for one will be very disappointed if anyone other than the 3 veteran UFAs + Polak/Martin are moved before the deadline.  Given that the best-by date for trading Bozak/JVR/Leo has passed, I could even accept if they stand pat, though I think it would still be best to get what they can for at least one of those 3.  This year is still about building, not trying to make a run for the Cup that almost certainly go up in a Lightning-ignited fire (if they get even that far).
Yeah I tend to agree.  I think they should trade Bozak and sign JVR to an extension if they can.  Actually with JVR they should aggressively pursue an extension right now and if he won't sign, then just trade him and at least get a draft pick or two out of it.  But yes, Polak and Martin should both be dealt, and maybe even Komarov if anyone wants him.  They probably will get little more than a bag of pucks for those three guys though.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 03, 2018, 02:34:45 PM
They won't subject from the existing lineup to a sell off in personnel as that would be sending the wrong message to a team that wants to win.

The message being sent by dealing those guys is "the organization's needs come first" which is a message they're all going to have to get used to as pros. It is a good and smart message.

If the Leafs were being mentioned as really serious contenders some hurt feelings might be understandable but right now they're third in a weak division and are probably still underdogs to make it out of the first round. If players think that sort of position means the team isn't going to make the smartest moves possible with their assets they should learn otherwise as quickly as they can.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: mr grieves on February 04, 2018, 12:53:25 AM
If players think that sort of position means the team isn't going to make the smartest moves possible with their assets they should learn otherwise as quickly as they can.

Or..... they could not learn that and not have to this season, as it's pretty unlikely Lou's going to do the smart thing.

Of course, the team should. How many playoff-bound teams need scoring, have aging cores, and are desperate to do something this year? Enough partners there to shake out a good prospect and a pick for JvR, I'd think.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 04, 2018, 10:24:55 AM
http://faceoffcircle.ca/2018/02/03/extremist-approach-leafs-trade-deadline/

The first one lol
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 04, 2018, 11:29:16 AM
http://faceoffcircle.ca/2018/02/03/extremist-approach-leafs-trade-deadline/

The first one lol

I like the idea of trading Polak for a pre-season game, but that's probably asking too much. I'd take a conditional bag of pucks.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 04, 2018, 03:07:05 PM
http://faceoffcircle.ca/2018/02/03/extremist-approach-leafs-trade-deadline/

The first one lol
I'd have no problem with any of those deals. I think RNH would be good here.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 04, 2018, 03:24:51 PM
The Leafs are in a good position this trade deadline.  If they do nothing, fine.  But if Lamoriello gets some offers he can't refuse, he will take them.  If they can get a first round pick for JVR I think they will do it.  A second rounder for Bozak would be nice also.  Then if they can offload Komarov and Martin they will have room for the young guys in their system who aren't playing right now.  It looks like the Leafs are going to get a nice boost internally on Defense with Holl, Dermott, and Liljegren.  So things look good for next season.  If the Leafs make some noise this year in the playoffs, great.  I just don't see them as contenders yet.  Next season maybe.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 04, 2018, 07:42:31 PM
If players think that sort of position means the team isn't going to make the smartest moves possible with their assets they should learn otherwise as quickly as they can.

Or..... they could not learn that and not have to this season, as it's pretty unlikely Lou's going to do the smart thing.

Of course, the team should. How many playoff-bound teams need scoring, have aging cores, and are desperate to do something this year? Enough partners there to shake out a good prospect and a pick for JvR, I'd think.

I think the thing they should be concerned with is losing momentum. If they don't make noise in the playoffs(a real possibility) and if they don't add Tavares(a strong probability) then they could be in a spot where in looking to come back next year with a team that's the equal of this year's one they're either pressured into bad moves in re-signing guys like JVR and Bozak or they're forced into a UFA market that very rarely yields good value deals.

Alternately, if you can trade them for the sorts of assets you can then use to trade for replacements I think the Leafs could easily weather the loss of those guys and come back stronger for it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: skrackle on February 04, 2018, 08:23:25 PM
I expect another 1st round loss for the Leafs this year. Maybe they'll surprise me. The games haven't been played yet, so I'll begrudge them the benefit of the doubt.

When (if) they lose in the 1st round, it will represent zero growth from last year. It will put a fine point on the problem of how the Leafs improve the team from where they are now, to contender status. There's no guarantee that they will.

To win a Stanley Cup, they need to do everything better and have better luck than any other team in a given year. I'd like to see them look long term and get the most in return for anyone who they must know isn't going to be part of a Cup team.

What I'd like to see is a 1st round pick for JVR, ideally from a team that ends up missing the playoffs. Beyond that, just more drafting and developing and unearthing gems beyond the 1st round of the draft. And, keep the cap number down. Can they do that?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: mr grieves on February 04, 2018, 11:26:23 PM
If players think that sort of position means the team isn't going to make the smartest moves possible with their assets they should learn otherwise as quickly as they can.

Or..... they could not learn that and not have to this season, as it's pretty unlikely Lou's going to do the smart thing.

Of course, the team should. How many playoff-bound teams need scoring, have aging cores, and are desperate to do something this year? Enough partners there to shake out a good prospect and a pick for JvR, I'd think.

I think the thing they should be concerned with is losing momentum. If they don't make noise in the playoffs(a real possibility) and if they don't add Tavares(a strong probability) then they could be in a spot where in looking to come back next year with a team that's the equal of this year's one they're either pressured into bad moves in re-signing guys like JVR and Bozak or they're forced into a UFA market that very rarely yields good value deals.

Alternately, if you can trade them for the sorts of assets you can then use to trade for replacements I think the Leafs could easily weather the loss of those guys and come back stronger for it.

Yup. I agree with this. No one will be disappointed with a first round exit if they're trying to make a go of it without some vets they had last time -- but another first round loss, followed by the subtraction of roster players, could be a bit deflating. Also, fewer avenues to get better if you let the likes of JvR and Bozak just walk.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: mr grieves on February 08, 2018, 12:22:44 PM
Mirtle makes the case for selling in the Athletic:


I wonder: after bottoming out and getting Stamkos/Hedman, how many picks did TBL use over the next several years...? Are the Leafs keeping up so they too can a deep, cheap team in the future?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: princedpw on February 08, 2018, 01:39:21 PM
Mirtle makes the case for selling in the Athletic ...

Yup, I'm on board with this. 

My hope is that Toronto is in the playoff picture for the next decade or so.  I'm already happy with this season.  This is the year in which they likely have the least incentive to buy at the deadline given their current situation in the standings.  A first-round pick or top prospect for JVR, especially someone who might become a decent 3rd-line center or top-3 defenseman in a couple of years would be very attractive.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 08, 2018, 01:53:48 PM
Mirtle makes the case for selling in the Athletic ...

Yup, I'm on board with this. 

My hope is that Toronto is in the playoff picture for the next decade or so.  I'm already happy with this season.  This is the year in which they likely have the least incentive to buy at the deadline given their current situation in the standings.  A first-round pick or top prospect for JVR, especially someone who might become a decent 3rd-line center or top-3 defenseman in a couple of years would be very attractive.

It doesn't even necessarily mean they'll be worse off if they trade a JVR and/or Bozak too.  You could try and inject some of the Marlies in the lineup as Mirtle suggested and who knows, maybe your speed and skill increase instead of decrease?  Sometimes a kid gets a shot at a lineup and plays his mind out before he realizes he's supposed to earn his way like they used to believe in the old days.  Remember Kapanen scoring a huge playoff goal last year after being called up, he played great for the Leafs in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Crake on February 08, 2018, 03:06:52 PM
I wonder if the market for jvr isn't as good as we hope. There isn't a shortage of scoring wingers available this year with Nash, Grabner, Kane, patches, Hoffman, Vanek etc all more likely to be traded than jvr is
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Kaberle15 on February 08, 2018, 07:20:53 PM
If Karlsson is avaliable i would try a Kessel like package + JVR as they can flip him for more future assets

Something like: 2 1st rounders + a 2nd + JVR for Karlsson

I also would move uncle Leo for a prospect. however, this year JVR is the biggest asset, if they lose Leo for free is not that much of a Loss, plus they will have to make a move to make room for Sochnikov before the deadline.

I would keep Bozak, they don't have a 3rd Center in their system capable as Bozak, If they can find anyone on free agent to fill his spot, I would consider extend him (for less money)

I would trade Leivo or waive him

If someone bites in a Martin trade he is good as gone...

However, I do think they will stand pat and do nothing this year. They made several great moves in the Tank year, and since, manage to build the foundation for this Team and this is the best Leafs team that I can remember and the young core, hopefully, will be intact for a long time.

Is it Feb 27th yet ?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: LuncheonMeat on February 08, 2018, 07:45:31 PM
If Karlsson is avaliable i would try a Kessel like package + JVR as they can flip him for more future assets
Something like: 2 1st rounders + a 2nd + JVR for Karlsson

Even if he was available, I can't imagine that would be enough.

Given the state of the team/ownership in Ottawa, I would be surprised if he re-signed there. I would maybe wait and see if he's available at the end of his contract, but giving up those assets in a trade would be a real break in the draft and develop philosophy the Leafs have employed.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 08, 2018, 07:52:40 PM
Its a very very deep draft too. I would be very loathe to part with our first and would much rather try to pick up another.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Kaberle15 on February 09, 2018, 04:20:50 AM
Its a very very deep draft too. I would be very loathe to part with our first and would much rather try to pick up another.

I would add a bottom 3 protected choice in the 2nd 1st rounder just in case, don't need the arrogant Burke approach... but I would do it in a heart beat, Karlsson would elevate this from almost contenders to one of the favorites to win the cup.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 09, 2018, 09:10:36 AM
It's not the worst offer, especially if Ottawa turns JVR into a 1st or more.

I just don't think with the team drowning and looking to get a new building, they'll trade their best player to their biggest rival.

Melnyk seems very upset that the Leafs regularly embarrass them by selling out their arena and turning games in Ottawa into home games for Toronto.

There are rumors out there that Carolina and Detroit could make a deal for Justin Faulk and AA.

If I was the Leafs GM I'd be all over that trying to outbid Detroit. Faulk isn't having an amazing year, but he's still a top-four caliber right shot dman.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Kaberle15 on February 09, 2018, 09:18:34 AM
Since Ottawa is the other home town for the Leafs...  ::)

Also, we traded or Captain for basically nothing, we are talking about 3 Garantees Picks + a potential asset that could land another 2 high picks... for a rebuilding team on a Budget...

Falk is not a bad idea also or Green.. if the price is right and Karlsson isn't avaliable...
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 09, 2018, 09:46:59 AM

Yeah, like WIGWAL says there's just no way the sense would trade Karlsson here.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 09, 2018, 09:49:14 AM
I just don't think with the team drowning and looking to get a new building, they'll trade their best player to their biggest rival.

Melnyk seems very upset that the Leafs regularly embarrass them by selling out their arena and turning games in Ottawa into home games for Toronto.

Melnyk would send Karlsson somewhere else for free before even considering trading him here for a fair offer.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 09, 2018, 10:05:29 AM
Just my read on the Leafs trade block likelihoods

JvR - not likely; high offer required
Bozak - not likely; high offer required
Komarov - 2nd rder and up
Polak - not likely; 1st rd pick not withstanding
Moore - open to a 4C swap, or better centre package
Martin - wait until off season, or to a contender that Martin likes
Leivo - gone for middle round pick(s)
Soshnikov - 2nd rder and up, unless Komarov goes
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 09, 2018, 01:15:49 PM
Coming soon to a Leafs lineup:
Johnsson - Willy - Hyman
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: L K on February 09, 2018, 01:30:18 PM
Coming soon to a Leafs lineup:
Johnsson - Willy - Hyman

If Johnsson - Willy - Hyman is a line does that make your Matthews line Brown - Matthews - Kapanen?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 09, 2018, 01:36:58 PM
If Johnsson - Willy - Hyman is a line does that make your Matthews line Brown - Matthews - Kapanen?

JvR - Matthews - Kapanen sounds more fun, you joke ruiner, you.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 09, 2018, 01:49:42 PM
If Johnsson - Willy - Hyman is a line does that make your Matthews line Brown - Matthews - Kapanen?

JvR - Matthews - Kapanen sounds more fun, you joke ruiner, you.

Just imagine when we have Tavares as second line center.

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
JVR(or his replacement)-Tavares-Kapanen
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
<insert 4th line here>

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: mr grieves on February 09, 2018, 02:17:36 PM
Its a very very deep draft too. I would be very loathe to part with our first and would much rather try to pick up another.

Deep draft... and a number of teams that would be buyers -- looking for more scoring, perhaps interested in a JvR -- have a forwards on Pronman's top 50 prospects list. Getting one of Kyrou (STL), Bean (CAR), Necas (CAR), Tolvanen (NSH), Kaprizov (MIN), etc. into the system might help replace JvR and Marleau in a few years...
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 09, 2018, 02:35:27 PM
Its a very very deep draft too. I would be very loathe to part with our first and would much rather try to pick up another.

Deep draft... and a number of teams that would be buyers -- looking for more scoring, perhaps interested in a JvR -- have a forwards on Pronman's top 50 prospects list. Getting one of Kyrou (STL), Bean (CAR), Necas (CAR), Tolvanen (NSH), Kaprizov (MIN), etc. into the system might help replace JvR and Marleau in a few years...

I like NSH and MIN as potential trade partners as they're always looking for high end scoring and generally have defensively reliable options.

JvR to NYI tickles me a bit too. Something like... JvR (retained salary) + Martin for one of their firsts or Ho-Sang/Bellows + eating Kulemin's contract (can we inflate our LTIR room?)

Edit: Snow said he won't be trading Tavares or his 2 1sts for rentals.
a) Unless it's Benning, no one believes what GMs say out loud to the press
b) NYI gets to turn a broken Kulemin into a scoring threat in JvR and gets back a fan favourite in Martin in a make or break season with their franchise centre for the price of a high pick or prospect
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 09, 2018, 03:23:52 PM
For ad-hoc comparisons of players you want/hate

Pretty regular stats
http://ownthepuck.blogspot.ca (HERO/WARRIOR Charts)

Advanced Stats

Passing/Entry Micro Stats
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 09, 2018, 03:37:29 PM
Mirtle makes the case for selling in the Athletic:


Mirtle also makes the case for buying

https://theathletic.com/235821/2018/02/09/mirtle-why-the-maple-leafs-should-be-buyers-at-the-trade-deadline/
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 09, 2018, 04:06:59 PM
Mirtle makes the case for selling in the Athletic:


Mirtle also makes the case for buying

https://theathletic.com/235821/2018/02/09/mirtle-why-the-maple-leafs-should-be-buyers-at-the-trade-deadline/

Quote
@67sound
@The Athletic Id add a third option: sell and buy. Move out Komarov, Bozak, Polak, Martin, Sosh, hell even Hainsey or JVR. Then go all in for a McDonagh/OEL type and maybe someone like Plekanec. A bit like @JeffVeillettes extremist approach.

@67sound
Youll have to pay a bit in prospects/picks to make those upgrades and there are a lot of moving parts but you add by addition and subtraction.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 09, 2018, 04:23:03 PM
Quote
@67sound
@The Athletic Id add a third option: sell and buy. Move out Komarov, Bozak, Polak, Martin, Sosh, hell even Hainsey or JVR. Then go all in for a McDonagh/OEL type and maybe someone like Plekanec. A bit like @JeffVeillettes extremist approach.

@67sound
Youll have to pay a bit in prospects/picks to make those upgrades and there are a lot of moving parts but you add by addition and subtraction.

That would be so fun

#CavsMode
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 09, 2018, 04:35:01 PM
Quote
@67sound
@The Athletic Id add a third option: sell and buy. Move out Komarov, Bozak, Polak, Martin, Sosh, hell even Hainsey or JVR. Then go all in for a McDonagh/OEL type and maybe someone like Plekanec. A bit like @JeffVeillettes extremist approach.

@67sound
Youll have to pay a bit in prospects/picks to make those upgrades and there are a lot of moving parts but you add by addition and subtraction.

That would be so fun

#CavsMode

It would destroy the dressing room and probably thereby ruin any chances for playoff success this year, but it would be interesting in terms of pixel generation on this board and Across the Universe.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 09, 2018, 04:44:39 PM
Quote
@67sound
@The Athletic Id add a third option: sell and buy. Move out Komarov, Bozak, Polak, Martin, Sosh, hell even Hainsey or JVR. Then go all in for a McDonagh/OEL type and maybe someone like Plekanec. A bit like @JeffVeillettes extremist approach.

@67sound
Youll have to pay a bit in prospects/picks to make those upgrades and there are a lot of moving parts but you add by addition and subtraction.

That would be so fun

#CavsMode

It would destroy the dressing room and probably thereby ruin any chances for playoff success this year, but it would be interesting in terms of pixel generation on this board and Across the Universe.

There would be an adjustment, but if you bring in real quality that makes the team more talented I think the room would adapt. Players love playing on a good team. The names suggested have been in the League long enough that playing a Babcock style would not be totally foreign to them, allowing them to have on ice success potentially quickly.

If you can move out all the expiring UFA's and fringe pieces and turn that return into one or two real impact players that would be pretty amazing. It's all wishful thinking, but fun nonetheless.

You could create a hole for a guy like Johnsson to step into, he's really ready.

Johnsson-Aaltonen-Kapanen was the best line in the AHL by a distance.

I feel like this could be an opportunity to do what Tampa did a few years ago and begin flooding the team with excelling AHL prospects.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 09, 2018, 05:11:23 PM
You could create a hole for a guy like Johnsson to step into, he's really ready.

Johnsson-Aaltonen-Kapanen was the best line in the AHL by a distance.

I feel like this could be an opportunity to do what Tampa did a few years ago and begin flooding the team with excelling AHL prospects.

This would be great. Tampa had the benefit of their AHL coach behind the NHL bench at that time, so the trust was already there and they got the leash to augment the core. Babcock claims to not know what the Marlies are like and wants them to break through the veteran stopgaps to earn the spots when those chances come up. I don't think we'll get to see the trade deadline roster gifts the way we saw in the Tank season anytime soon.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 10, 2018, 11:50:21 AM

It takes them awhile but they eventually get to the conclusion I prefer every year:
Sell only what brings in a good deal makes the team better either on the ice now or opens options down the road.

Nothing needs to be forced except shedding one roster spot when Sosh is back tonight, and opening up contract room if possible.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Fletch on February 10, 2018, 03:58:01 PM
Coming soon to a Leafs lineup:
Johnsson - Willy - Hyman
Ha Ha Ha, reminds me of when the Jays had Dickie, Johnson and Wang in their rotation.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 10, 2018, 10:16:55 PM
Coming soon to a Leafs lineup:
Johnsson - Willy - Hyman
Ha Ha Ha, reminds me of when the Jays had Dickie, Johnson and Wang in their rotation.

Bless you.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 10, 2018, 10:18:11 PM

Not unexpected. But Im reading it more as a dare to the other teams to see if theyd ante up.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bender on February 10, 2018, 10:20:36 PM

Not unexpected. But Im reading it more as a dare to the other teams to see if theyd ante up.
I'm starting to think we keep him on a sweetheart deal...
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 11, 2018, 12:48:38 AM
I hope not... He's the laziest 30 goal man I've ever seen.  I'd rather have 20 goals and a relentless forechecker and backchecker.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: slapshot on February 11, 2018, 11:53:39 AM
With talk about the Leafs add center depth, here are few thoughts.

If this Leafs wanted to move Komarov to centre on 4th land, pick up Grabner for a second go around. Imagine him and Kapanen on either wing, blinding speed. Another good penalty killer if anyone got hurt, and some scoring touch. Babcock liked him if when they let him go.

Mikael Backlund, decent two way center with speed and some skill. If Calgary were to hit the skids of the next couple of weeks, they might part with him for a younger player, Leivo or Sosh and a pick.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: mr grieves on February 11, 2018, 01:55:19 PM
I'm starting to think we keep him on a sweetheart deal...

Wouldn't that have been months ago? At this point, I don't think there's a deal from the Leafs with term.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 11, 2018, 02:13:34 PM

Not unexpected. But Im reading it more as a dare to the other teams to see if theyd ante up.
Sounds like it. More of a "if you want him you'd have to blow our socks off with an offer'
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: skrackle on February 11, 2018, 07:21:23 PM
Aside from what I'd like to see the Leafs do at the trade deadline, I don't expect much to happen. Maybe they'll pick up a depth player with some playoff experience.

Management might want to see how a young team with the toughest possible playoff matchups does before making any significant changes.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 12, 2018, 09:17:30 AM
Every time there is reported asking price I roll my eyes. I have a hard time believing anything meaningful will happen with the asking prices out there. Let's just hope it's more posturing then actual requirements to get some moves done.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 13, 2018, 05:35:19 PM
So where ever Rick Nash ends up, the Leafs should probably check in on the losers who missed out on that deal and see if they want a softer, younger, cheaper Rick Nash.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 13, 2018, 09:19:17 PM
So where ever Rick Nash ends up, the Leafs should probably check in on the losers who missed out on that deal and see if they want a softer, younger, cheaper Rick Nash.
Matt Martin?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 14, 2018, 10:42:37 AM
So where ever Rick Nash ends up, the Leafs should probably check in on the losers who missed out on that deal and see if they want a softer, younger, cheaper Rick Nash.
Matt Martin?

Matt Martin has as many 3-point games as Rick Nash does this season!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 14, 2018, 10:49:41 AM
Anyone think Bozak could fetch a king's ransom at the deadline?

It is a bleak picture for teams looking for centers.

Move Marleau into the #3 center spot and put Kapanen with Kadri and Marner.

I know most won't want to move Bozak while the team is trying to go deep, but I think it could be addition by subtraction and if the market is squeezed so thin that he could get you a 1st round pick, I might pull the trigger.

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Kapanen-Kadri-Marner
JVR-Marleau-Brown
Komarov-Moore-Soshnikov
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 14, 2018, 10:57:43 AM
Anyone think Bozak could fetch a king's ransom at the deadline?

It is a bleak picture for teams looking for centers.

His play wouldn't really make that easy. Second lowest points per game of his career, lowest goals per game of his career.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 14, 2018, 11:07:32 AM
Anyone think Bozak could fetch a king's ransom at the deadline?

It is a bleak picture for teams looking for centers.

His play wouldn't really make that easy. Second lowest points per game of his career, lowest goals per game of his career.

I hear you, but if it's a choice between him and a guy like Letestu teams could get desperate. Especially when the Sens are apparently asking for a 1st, a player and a prospect for Brassard.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 14, 2018, 11:24:36 AM
Anyone think Bozak could fetch a king's ransom at the deadline?

It is a bleak picture for teams looking for centers.

His play wouldn't really make that easy. Second lowest points per game of his career, lowest goals per game of his career.

I hear you, but if it's a choice between him and a guy like Letestu teams could get desperate. Especially when the Sens are apparently asking for a 1st, a player and a prospect for Brassard.

While I agree with you that Bozak could bring a better return than his numbers warrant, as a general principle we should never use sens delusionality as a benchmark.  Although good on them for trading Dion I guess.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 15, 2018, 05:06:03 PM
I dearly hope we are chumming the waters between Columbus, Philadelphia, Carolina, Nashville, Minnesota. All of them are looking for a marquee scorer for their playoff drives. 3 of them have defense prospects to offer, and all of them have picks to play with. Most, if not all, will miss out on Nash.

Our selection menu ranges from guaranteed goals to feisty with pretty good hands in tight.

Deluxe Model: JvR
Big Brother: Martin
Bang for the Buck: Leivo
LNIB (minor usage wear): Soshnikov
Perfect for Playoffs: Komarov
Make a Fair Offer: Fehr
Budget-friendly: Rychel
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 16, 2018, 09:45:47 AM
https://theathletic.com/239110/2018/02/16/why-the-maple-leafs-should-chase-another-centre-at-the-trade-deadline/

Jonas Siegel doing the legwork on selling my idea of focusing on bolstering the centres, rather than fixating on a top-2 RHD.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 16, 2018, 10:12:51 AM
https://theathletic.com/239110/2018/02/16/why-the-maple-leafs-should-chase-another-centre-at-the-trade-deadline/

Jonas Siegel doing the legwork on selling my idea of focusing on bolstering the centres, rather than fixating on a top-2 RHD.

This article doesn't even mention Tavares so nobody should click it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 16, 2018, 10:20:52 AM
https://theathletic.com/239110/2018/02/16/why-the-maple-leafs-should-chase-another-centre-at-the-trade-deadline/

Jonas Siegel doing the legwork on selling my idea of focusing on bolstering the centres, rather than fixating on a top-2 RHD.

This article doesn't even mention Tavares so nobody should click it.

No sense in going for him at the deadline though.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 16, 2018, 02:51:28 PM

For weeks I've been so terrified that this would happen I didn't even want to bring it up.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: louisstamos on February 16, 2018, 03:15:46 PM

For weeks I've been so terrified that this would happen I didn't even want to bring it up.

Oh please, no.  His contract is terrible, and really he's not any better than Moore.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 16, 2018, 03:27:19 PM
For weeks I've been so terrified that this would happen I didn't even want to bring it up.

Unless it's straight up for Martin . . . and even then, no.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 16, 2018, 03:35:43 PM
Also horrifying but to a lesser extent, the Pens are shopping Matt Hunwick.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 16, 2018, 05:44:52 PM
Also horrifying but to a lesser extent, the Pens are shopping Matt Hunwick.
For Roman Polak and a sack of magic beans?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Joe S. on February 16, 2018, 05:59:31 PM
I really hope the leafs do nothing.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Arn on February 16, 2018, 06:25:05 PM
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 16, 2018, 09:49:30 PM
If they do this it's proof positive that Dubas and his analytics department have become completely isolated and tuned out within the organization.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: L K on February 17, 2018, 06:23:10 AM
https://theathletic.com/239110/2018/02/16/why-the-maple-leafs-should-chase-another-centre-at-the-trade-deadline/

Jonas Siegel doing the legwork on selling my idea of focusing on bolstering the centres, rather than fixating on a top-2 RHD.

Do we really need a 4th line Center to pull Matthews down to 15 minutes per game?  It just seems like any 4th line acquisition just replaces Moore and thats likely a rental and certainly not a guy who turns the Leafs into a bigger threat against Tampa.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 17, 2018, 10:12:24 AM
If they do this it's proof positive that Dubas and his analytics department have become completely isolated and tuned out within the organization.

I think that's a little hyperbolic, no?

You said yourself the other day that there are variables in these transactions that aren't represented in math.

I have friends in the industry, and they say that math has a lot to do with these sorts of deals, but you're still dealing with group dynamics, personality clashes, attitude issues with negative people, cliques and friends of people that you don't want to offend, etc...  And because a lot of these people are very young with a lot of money, some start to not give a damn about what anyone says, and problems can be a result of that.  Some are just plain bad employees that don't do as asked, and sometimes you have to remove them for the overall betterment of the group.  Some are great employees that help out with the overall result, even if their individual math suggests they only have a marginal impact on a given result.

I don't defer to authority, and I don't usually challenge these sorts of things as a fan because I really don't have the information that influences these decisions outside of math data that we have access to.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 17, 2018, 11:31:13 AM
I personally think Leivo is good depth, and the team will need him next year when someone inevitably leaves the organization.  At this point I don't think the Leafs should do much unless a very good deal comes along.  They don't have any glaring weaknesses IMO, and really when the team has just gone 9-1, even beating teams like Tampa Bay, Columbus, and Nashville, should you really change anything?

I hear a lot of flak about Polak, Komarov, and Martin, and while a lot of that is perfectly justified, those guys still play an important role on the team and they are good depth and good pieces to have in the playoffs.  Komarov is an elite penalty killer and I don't think he's as bad as everyone says he is.  He is a prototypical fourth line player and I have no issue with him playing that role on this team.  You've got to have a guy like Martin on the team despite how much the NHL has changed.  And Polak, well, of those three guys I like him the least because he's too slow and I find him a defensive liability.  So if they get rid of anyone I think it should be him, and perhaps make a deal for an upgrade on defense.  But even with that being said, Polak isn't *that* bad, particularly if he's being used as a seventh defenseman.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bullfrog on February 17, 2018, 11:38:51 AM
You've got to have a guy like Martin on the team despite how much the NHL has changed. 

Why?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 17, 2018, 11:51:31 AM
You've got to have a guy like Martin on the team despite how much the NHL has changed. 

Why?
Protection for guys like Auston Matthews.  Just ask Mats Sundin what he thinks of Tie Domi.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: leafsjunkie on February 17, 2018, 01:04:28 PM
You've got to have a guy like Martin on the team despite how much the NHL has changed. 

Why?
Protection for guys like Auston Matthews.  Just ask Mats Sundin what he thinks of Tie Domi.

Martin does not deter or stop anything, it's hogwash.
This carries no weight in today's NHL.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Strangelove on February 17, 2018, 01:14:09 PM
You've got to have a guy like Martin on the team despite how much the NHL has changed. 

Why?
Protection for guys like Auston Matthews.  Just ask Mats Sundin what he thinks of Tie Domi.

So Martins presence in the press box will have an impact on whether the other team finishes their check against Matthews?

I know this was a popular line of thinking in the Don Cherry / Bobby Orr years, but I didnt think anyone still thought this way.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 17, 2018, 02:15:03 PM
You've got to have a guy like Martin on the team despite how much the NHL has changed. 

Why?
Protection for guys like Auston Matthews.  Just ask Mats Sundin what he thinks of Tie Domi.

So Martins presence in the press box will have an impact on whether the other team finishes their check against Matthews?

I know this was a popular line of thinking in the Don Cherry / Bobby Orr years, but I didnt think anyone still thought this way.
Things can still get out of hand in an NHL game and sometimes a guy like Martin is useful, is all I'm saying.  Against a team like Boston, for example.  You don't want Marchand running around doing whatever he wants out there.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 17, 2018, 02:37:56 PM
Most teams are no longer carrying sherrifs on their rosters. Usually the player instead is faster and more skilled. Dedicating a roster spot to that type of role player puts the team behind in terms of generating goals (and wins).

Martin is not a dedicated fighter but he can admirably fulfill that role while playing NHL level hockey. Unfortunately for him, we have players like Kapanen who are several factors better than him at hockey and at the end of the day, that matters more to the teams success.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 19, 2018, 04:53:15 PM
Leafs are reported to have offered a 5th for Glendening. The Red Wings countered with an ask of a 2nd.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 19, 2018, 05:27:56 PM
So what's wrong with Dominic Moore again?  And what kind of upgrade would Glendening be?  I can understand the Leafs wanting to upgrade, but at least do it right.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 19, 2018, 05:49:17 PM
Centre depth move, I guess.  You won't have to worry about this guy wanting more ice and to play in the top 9. 

Babcock loves his PK guys.

I'd prefer someone with a little more offensive upside, as long as we're shopping.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 19, 2018, 06:45:37 PM
Leafs are reported to have offered a 5th for Glendening. The Red Wings countered with an ask of a 2nd.

This was reported by "Wings Nation" are they a reputable outlet?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 19, 2018, 06:58:01 PM
Leafs are reported to have offered a 5th for Glendening. The Red Wings countered with an ask of a 2nd.

This was reported by "Wings Nation" are they a reputable outlet?

I got the report via Frank Seravelli/TSN (https://www.tsn.ca/flyers-discussing-trade-for-wings-mrazek-1.1003935) by way of MLHS (https://www.mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/02/19/leafs-links-report-leafs-offer-fifth-round-pick-luke-glendening-bob-mckenzie-updates-leafs-situation-ahead-trade-deadline/).
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 19, 2018, 07:01:31 PM
Leafs are reported to have offered a 5th for Glendening. The Red Wings countered with an ask of a 2nd.

If this news is at all accurate, Lou is scuttling any potential deal as we speak. News doesn't leak about deals he stays involved in.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 19, 2018, 07:02:39 PM
Leafs are reported to have offered a 5th for Glendening. The Red Wings countered with an ask of a 2nd.

If this news is at all accurate, Lou is scuttling any potential deal as we speak. News doesn't leak about deals he stays involved in.

I'm trying to broadcast it as much as possible for that very reason.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: LuncheonMeat on February 19, 2018, 07:22:15 PM
Perhaps the Wings could use Leivo?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 19, 2018, 07:24:22 PM
There is a Glendening  damn up in Thornbury/Clarksburg, hope that is not a sign.

When I last saw him play I liked his game, seems to have a bit more grit than Moore although Moore seems to be a smoother skater.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: azzurri63 on February 19, 2018, 07:35:53 PM
TSN says prices are high for some potential players looking to be moved. I wouldn't give up too much for anybody. Possibly Kapenen at least for Glendening. No thanks. The way Babcock judges players I would leave any trades to Lou & Shanny and leave Babcock out of the final decision. Babcock's judge of personnel is suspect. From a guy who says Gardiner has a high hockey IQ. F me.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 12:27:28 PM

He's left-handed but I still think the Leafs should be checking in on McDonagh. Him with Rielly moving to the right side would give us a legitimate top pairing.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 20, 2018, 12:38:09 PM

He's left-handed but I still think the Leafs should be checking in on McDonagh. Him with Rielly moving to the right side would give us a legitimate top pairing.

Given we would have him for at least another year I'd be willing to entertain this.  I don't think we'll be able to solve the RHD this offseason either.  All depends on what we'd have to give up.  (1st, Brown, prospect?)  I'd be ok with that.  Just not Kapanen, Dermott, or Liljegren.

McDonaugh - Rielly
Gardiner - Zaitsev/Hainsey
Dermott - Hainsey/Zaitsev

That looks a lot better for the next 1.5 seasons.

EDIT:  I still prefer a Tanev deal.  I think it will cost less in terms of assets and he's signed for one more year beyond McDonagh and Gardiner.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 01:18:22 PM
Given we would have him for at least another year I'd be willing to entertain this.  I don't think we'll be able to solve the RHD this offseason either.  All depends on what we'd have to give up.  (1st, Brown, prospect?)  I'd be ok with that.  Just not Kapanen, Dermott, or Liljegren.

I'd prefer to move Brown but I'd be fine with dealing Kapanen in a trade like this. He can't be off the table when you're dealing with a player like McDonagh.

EDIT:  I still prefer a Tanev deal.  I think it will cost less in terms of assets and he's signed for one more year beyond McDonagh and Gardiner.

The talent difference between McDonagh and Tanev is pretty big. I think McDonagh is a legit #1, not Norris-level but still a #1. Tanev is like a really good #3 or #4. And his injury history is very worrisome. I've said before that I'd go after him but he does have warts.

I'm also not sure the required return between the two would be that massive. The Rangers seem motivated to move McDonagh, while the Canucks think Tanev is still a part of whatever future they're trying to build. That makes a big difference when negotiating a trade.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 20, 2018, 02:33:21 PM
EDIT:  I still prefer a Tanev deal.  I think it will cost less in terms of assets and he's signed for one more year beyond McDonagh and Gardiner.

The talent difference between McDonagh and Tanev is pretty big. I think McDonagh is a legit #1, not Norris-level but still a #1. Tanev is like a really good #3 or #4. And his injury history is very worrisome. I've said before that I'd go after him but he does have warts.

I'm also not sure the required return between the two would be that massive. The Rangers seem motivated to move McDonagh, while the Canucks think Tanev is still a part of whatever future they're trying to build. That makes a big difference when negotiating a trade.

Tanev is one of the best shot suppressing d-men in the league.  The talent difference you speak of is entirely on the offensive side of the puck and we don't seem to have much issue there among our d-men.  I think Tanev is a great compliment to Rielly (who's elite offensively).  A much better skating and passing version of Hainsey who has done pretty well for Rielly this year. 

I do agree with you that the acquisition cost is what it comes down to.  Would I give up a 1st, Kapanen, and a b-level prospect for McDonagh.  Yes.  But if Tanev is a 1st and a b-level prospect I'd rather keep Kapanen and have Tanev for that extra year.    If we trade for McDonagh we are going to lose one of him or Gardiner in 1.5 years.  If we trade for Tanev, we might be able to keep Gardiner.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 02:48:21 PM
If we trade for McDonagh we are going to lose one of him or Gardiner in 1.5 years.  If we trade for Tanev, we might be able to keep Gardiner.

My plan at that point would be to unload Zaitsev's contract so we could keep those guys around. That would give us this in 2019:

Rielly-McDonagh/Tanev
Gardiner-Liljegren
Dermott-x

Although like you brought up elsewhere, that puts us in a tricky spot come the next expansion draft.

edit: And even if we can't bring back Gardiner, losing him wouldn't be the end of the world with Dermott behind him on the depth chart. Rielly-x, Dermott-Liljegren looks like a solid top-4 long-term if Liljegren develops how we'd like him to and x isn't Zaitsev.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 20, 2018, 03:33:04 PM
Crazy, somewhat shoot-us-in-the-foot-now type trade:

Trade JvR and Komarov (with retention on one or both) to TB for Sergachev + Foote.

Leafs load up with two good potential dmen for expiring contracts.  The obvious drawback being that  i strengthens TB and worsens us this year.

Edit: just noticed Sergachev's points... Taking him out of TB's lineup might have more impact than I thought... A dman might need to be going back to make this work...  Hainsey?

Edit2: the intention was to give TB the chance to really go for it and take Sergachev and Foote off their hands while they're blinded by the Stanley cup...

Edit3: the obvious problem here being they'd prefer to spend that on Karlsson for 2 years of runs... But my hope is Ottawa says "not enough" or demands they take Ryan.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 20, 2018, 03:42:14 PM
Sergachev is 19, is producing at approx 0.5ppg and is making under 1 million a year for the next two years.

Imagine him on the Leafs, what would it take to trade him in that scenario?

Imagine Liljegren is producing 0.5ppg next season, it'd take a franchise type player coming back for you to deal him, right?

That's not to mention the benefit of getting top 3 production from a dman at that price and how it allows you freedom to fill out the rest of the team.

Okay, so no to your idea.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 20, 2018, 03:45:16 PM
Sergachev is like our Nylander/Marner. He's not going anywhere.

Honestly I doubt Tampa even moves Foote for both JVR and Komarov.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 20, 2018, 04:07:07 PM
Yes, I wasn't aware just how good Sergachev is doing in TB...  So that certainly complicates the idea...

I believe it's been reported that TB is willing to pay the price to go for it, and that's what this thought train is based on.

Could the Leafs offer up enough without costing Reilly/Gardiner or the big 3?

Or you believe they would move Sergachev or Foote for anything?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 20, 2018, 04:11:43 PM
Yes, I wasn't aware just how good Sergachev is doing in TB...  So that certainly complicates the idea...

I believe it's been reported that TB is willing to pay the price to go for it, and that's what this thought train is based on.

Could the Leafs offer up enough without costing Reilly/Gardiner or the big 3?

Or you believe they would move Sergachev or Foote for anything?

Yeah, they'd be willing to pay the price to get Karlsson.  That's probably the only way Sergachev gets moved.  Foote is probably a bit more in play depending on the deal.  But it won't be a for a rental forward who's a 4th liner (Komarov) or a 3rd liner with elite PP production (JvR). 

Plus, from the Leafs perspective, neither of those guys are getting moved unless another player they deem an upgrade is coming in.  (ie, if they could get Rick Nash then I see JvR getting traded... need to clear the cap room to bring in Nash)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bullfrog on February 20, 2018, 04:20:00 PM
Crazy, somewhat shoot-us-in-the-foot-now type trade:

Trade JvR and Komarov (with retention on one or both) to TB for Sergachev + Foote.

Leafs load up with two good potential dmen for expiring contracts.  The obvious drawback being that  i strengthens TB and worsens us this year.

Edit: just noticed Sergachev's points... Taking him out of TB's lineup might have more impact than I thought... A dman might need to be going back to make this work...  Hainsey?

Edit2: the intention was to give TB the chance to really go for it and take Sergachev and Foote off their hands while they're blinded by the Stanley cup...

Edit3: the obvious problem here being they'd prefer to spend that on Karlsson for 2 years of runs... But my hope is Ottawa says "not enough" or demands they take Ryan.

Edit4: the Leafs are retaining salary on Kessel until forever, so they can only retain salary on one more player.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 20, 2018, 04:22:09 PM
Edit4: the Leafs are retaining salary on Kessel until forever, so they can only retain salary on one more player.

You can retain salary on three players as far as I know.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 20, 2018, 04:28:40 PM
Edit4: the Leafs are retaining salary on Kessel until forever, so they can only retain salary on one more player.

Two. You can retain on up to 3. However, that deal is a no-go for all the other reasons.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 20, 2018, 04:29:42 PM
Or you believe they would move Sergachev or Foote for anything?

I think Foote could be in play for the right piece, but Sergachev is basically untouchable.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 20, 2018, 04:30:17 PM
Yeah, they'd be willing to pay the price to get Karlsson.  That's probably the only way Sergachev gets moved.  Foote is probably a bit more in play depending on the deal.  But it won't be a for a rental forward who's a 4th liner (Komarov) or a 3rd liner with elite PP production (JvR). 

The original price was under the assumption that Sergachev was playing more average-young-dman like, which doesn't appear to be the case.

Essentially answering my own question here, but the only possible chance at a deal would have to involve Kadri, which, creates a huge hole in our lineup, making the whole idea not worth it...

Plus, from the Leafs perspective, neither of those guys are getting moved unless another player they deem an upgrade is coming in.  (ie, if they could get Rick Nash then I see JvR getting traded... need to clear the cap room to bring in Nash)

Yeah, I wouldn't expect the Leafs to do this either.  Was more of a hypothetical.  Pulling in 2 quality dman prospects, one who's NHL ready, would be pretty sweet if they were willing to be patient enough.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 20, 2018, 04:32:18 PM
Or you believe they would move Sergachev or Foote for anything?

I think Foote could be in play for the right piece, but Sergachev is basically untouchable.

That makes me a sad panda. :(

On the plus side, Montreal trading this guy for a winger who has less points makes me feel better. :)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 10:54:31 AM

He's either been traded or he's been given a maintenance day.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 21, 2018, 10:57:29 AM
Or you believe they would move Sergachev or Foote for anything?

I think Foote could be in play for the right piece, but Sergachev is basically untouchable.

Late to the party here, but it's never too late to remind everyone that Sergachev was traded by GM Marc Bergevin of the storied Montreal Canadiens.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 21, 2018, 10:58:12 AM
Or you believe they would move Sergachev or Foote for anything?

I think Foote could be in play for the right piece, but Sergachev is basically untouchable.

That makes me a sad panda. :(

On the plus side, Montreal trading this guy for a winger who has less points makes me feel better. :)

EDIT: Haha avro just saw your post, but it bears repeating.  Ad nauseum.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 21, 2018, 11:15:12 AM

He's either been traded or he's been given a maintenance day.

Day-to-day with an abductor strain

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 11:17:04 AM
"abductor"? That's clearly a made-up muscle that's code for somebody's been traded.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 21, 2018, 11:36:21 AM
Hate to say it but I want this lad on the Leafs in the very near future.  JVR for all the right reasons should be moved for a good prospect and pick.
so hope Johnsson has a strain instead of a Plane.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 11:40:57 AM
Friedman has also mentioned the Glendening-to-Toronto rumours in his latest 31 Thoughts:

Quote
11. Toronto certainly has interest in Luke Glendening, but Im not sure how the Maple Leafs can do it for a draft pick. Theyre at 48 contracts, two shy of the max, and they wouldnt want to get back to 50.

Its likely they discussed Nikita Soshnikov as part of the trade before the winger was sent to St. Louis, so it makes sense that maybe Josh Leivo could be part of this.

The other key would be a draft pick, and the two sides are a few rounds apart on agreeing.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 21, 2018, 01:04:45 PM
Friedman has also mentioned the Glendening-to-Toronto rumours in his latest 31 Thoughts:

Quote
11. Toronto certainly has interest in Luke Glendening, but I’m not sure how the Maple Leafs can do it for a draft pick. They’re at 48 contracts, two shy of the max, and they wouldn’t want to get back to 50.

It’s likely they discussed Nikita Soshnikov as part of the trade before the winger was sent to St. Louis, so it makes sense that maybe Josh Leivo could be part of this.

The other key would be a draft pick, and the two sides are a few rounds apart on agreeing.

As of last night, Bob McKenzie said he thinks Glendening rumors to Toronto are dead based on the Wings asking price and Leafs won't offer up a higher pick.  Rumor is Leafs offered a 5th rounder.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 21, 2018, 01:13:50 PM
Friedman has also mentioned the Glendening-to-Toronto rumours in his latest 31 Thoughts:

Quote
11. Toronto certainly has interest in Luke Glendening, but Im not sure how the Maple Leafs can do it for a draft pick. Theyre at 48 contracts, two shy of the max, and they wouldnt want to get back to 50.

Its likely they discussed Nikita Soshnikov as part of the trade before the winger was sent to St. Louis, so it makes sense that maybe Josh Leivo could be part of this.

The other key would be a draft pick, and the two sides are a few rounds apart on agreeing.

As of last night, Bob McKenzie said he thinks Glendening rumors to Toronto are dead based on the Wings asking price and Leafs won't offer up a higher pick.  Rumor is Leafs offered a 5th rounder.
Matt Martin for him...Do you do it? I'd be tempted. Think the Leafs have enough internally for a 4th line centre. Leo could go there or they could call Ben Smith up from the Marlies. He's having a decent year and a good pro.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 21, 2018, 01:21:36 PM
As of last night, Bob McKenzie said he thinks Glendening rumors to Toronto are dead based on the Wings asking price and Leafs won't offer up a higher pick.  Rumor is Leafs offered a 5th rounder.

If Lou isn't completely put off by the media getting wind of the deal - especially specifics of the deal - I imagine they'll revisit it closer to the deadline. That being said, with the amount of out there, I think it's basically dead.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 21, 2018, 01:29:41 PM
In the LA LA Land Leafs front office in my head Dubas leaked this to the media so that he doesn't have to deal with the consequences down the line.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 21, 2018, 01:37:44 PM
As of last night, Bob McKenzie said he thinks Glendening rumors to Toronto are dead based on the Wings asking price and Leafs won't offer up a higher pick.  Rumor is Leafs offered a 5th rounder.

If Lou isn't completely put off by the media getting wind of the deal - especially specifics of the deal - I imagine they'll revisit it closer to the deadline. That being said, with the amount of out there, I think it's basically dead.

I hope Lou is actually that stubborn.  Somehow the rumored deal was leaked and now he won't make it on principal alone.  "Nothing leaks!"
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: LuncheonMeat on February 21, 2018, 01:39:16 PM
As of last night, Bob McKenzie said he thinks Glendening rumors to Toronto are dead based on the Wings asking price and Leafs won't offer up a higher pick.  Rumor is Leafs offered a 5th rounder.

If Lou isn't completely put off by the media getting wind of the deal - especially specifics of the deal - I imagine they'll revisit it closer to the deadline. That being said, with the amount of out there, I think it's basically dead.

I think it was Friedman who mentioned this the other day. That if a Lou trade gets leaked, it probably means the deal is already dead.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 21, 2018, 01:39:42 PM
Friedman has also mentioned the Glendening-to-Toronto rumours in his latest 31 Thoughts:

Quote
11. Toronto certainly has interest in Luke Glendening, but I’m not sure how the Maple Leafs can do it for a draft pick. They’re at 48 contracts, two shy of the max, and they wouldn’t want to get back to 50.

It’s likely they discussed Nikita Soshnikov as part of the trade before the winger was sent to St. Louis, so it makes sense that maybe Josh Leivo could be part of this.

The other key would be a draft pick, and the two sides are a few rounds apart on agreeing.

As of last night, Bob McKenzie said he thinks Glendening rumors to Toronto are dead based on the Wings asking price and Leafs won't offer up a higher pick.  Rumor is Leafs offered a 5th rounder.
Matt Martin for him...Do you do it? I'd be tempted. Think the Leafs have enough internally for a 4th line centre. Leo could go there or they could call Ben Smith up from the Marlies. He's having a decent year and a good pro.

I read or heard somewhere that a Matt Martin deal is more likely in the summer AFTER he gets his bonus of 1.5Million.  After that, the actual remaining salary to be paid to him from the original 10M is only 2.5M for the next 2 seasons. (that's 2.5million TOTAL of real money he'll get, cap number is of course 2.5)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 21, 2018, 04:04:05 PM
Friedman has also mentioned the Glendening-to-Toronto rumours in his latest 31 Thoughts:

Quote
11. Toronto certainly has interest in Luke Glendening, but Im not sure how the Maple Leafs can do it for a draft pick. Theyre at 48 contracts, two shy of the max, and they wouldnt want to get back to 50.

Its likely they discussed Nikita Soshnikov as part of the trade before the winger was sent to St. Louis, so it makes sense that maybe Josh Leivo could be part of this.

The other key would be a draft pick, and the two sides are a few rounds apart on agreeing.

As of last night, Bob McKenzie said he thinks Glendening rumors to Toronto are dead based on the Wings asking price and Leafs won't offer up a higher pick.  Rumor is Leafs offered a 5th rounder.
Matt Martin for him...Do you do it? I'd be tempted. Think the Leafs have enough internally for a 4th line centre. Leo could go there or they could call Ben Smith up from the Marlies. He's having a decent year and a good pro.

I read or heard somewhere that a Matt Martin deal is more likely in the summer AFTER he gets his bonus of 1.5Million.  After that, the actual remaining salary to be paid to him from the original 10M is only 2.5M for the next 2 seasons. (that's 2.5million TOTAL of real money he'll get, cap number is of course 2.5)
Didn't know that, thx.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 21, 2018, 04:18:00 PM
I read or heard somewhere that a Matt Martin deal is more likely in the summer AFTER he gets his bonus of 1.5Million.  After that, the actual remaining salary to be paid to him from the original 10M is only 2.5M for the next 2 seasons. (that's 2.5million TOTAL of real money he'll get, cap number is of course 2.5)
Didn't know that, thx.

Here:
I'd be very surprised if they dealt him in-season. Regardless of what we think about Martin, that wouldn't be good for team morale. Everyone on the team loves him. This seems like an off-season move to me.

At that point, he'd have 2 years left on his contract with a cap hit of $2.5mil. His actual salary paid in those two years is $2.25mil and then $1.75mil. He has signing bonuses of $1.5mil and $1.0mil in those two years. Assuming that the first signing bonus is paid out on July 1st like most of them are, a team acquiring him after that would only have to pay him $2.5mil for two seasons of work. That's good value. Finding a budget-y team that isn't going to be near the cap (which is rising) to take his contract without having to eat anything shouldn't be impossible.

and then a whole bunch of other people online and in articles said the same thing because they're copying Carlton it's obvious.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 05:00:30 PM
I think it was Friedman who mentioned this the other day. That if a Lou trade gets leaked, it probably means the deal is already dead.

Ah man, it's going to be fascinating to find out what wins out here. Lou's archaic views towards being a general manager or Babcock's inane desire to acquire a terrible 4C he was in love with 4 years ago. What a battle of attrition this is going to be.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bullfrog on February 21, 2018, 05:17:48 PM
We're all pulling for Lou on this one, right?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 21, 2018, 06:34:09 PM

He's left-handed but I still think the Leafs should be checking in on McDonagh. Him with Rielly moving to the right side would give us a legitimate top pairing.

Looks like the Leafs are listening to your suggestions...

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2018, 06:44:41 PM
My concern with McDonagh is the cost to acquire.  My hope is JvR goes out for some of the assets to get McDonagh.

Just no Lily, and keep at least 1 first.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 21, 2018, 07:56:26 PM
Looks like the Leafs are listening to your suggestions...


Neato. I just read this (https://www.sny.tv/rangers/news/the-latest-updates-on-a-potential-ryan-mcdonagh-trade/266472174) article that's sorta a round-up of McDonagh talk, and apparently both Custance and LeBrun said the Rangers would be looking for something similar to what they paid when they acquired Keith Yandle a couple years ago.

That deal was Yandle, a 4th, and a spare contract for Anthony Duclair (Kapanen/Brown), John Moore (bottom pairing defenceman, maybe Borgman or Rosen?), a 1st and a 2nd. That seems workable to me.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 21, 2018, 08:20:34 PM
Based on Babcock's comments not long ago that the best way for the players to put pressure on the GM is to play well, I would say that the Leafs just might be going for it this year, I believe they have gone close to 9-1 since Babcock said that.  They do have a half decent shot to go for a nice run.  Lou Lamoriello's job is not easy right now.  I'm not sure what I would do.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 21, 2018, 08:31:41 PM
They do have a half decent shot to go for a nice run.  Lou Lamoriello's job is not easy right now.  I'm not sure what I would do.

I don't know. It feels like a pretty easy choice to me. You look at how they're winning games, what the team looks like when they're playing against the better teams, etc., and it's pretty clear to me that they're not quite real Cup contenders yet, and deadline acquisitions aren't going to make a big enough difference. A couple small depth moves to shore up some holes, and hope the team finds some magic - that's the fairly obvious route here.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 21, 2018, 09:27:29 PM
My concern with McDonagh is the cost to acquire.  My hope is JvR goes out for some of the assets to get McDonagh.

Just no Lily, and keep at least 1 first.

As long as Kapanen, Dermott, and Liljagren aren't part of the deal, I'm not super concerned about the Leafs potentially including a 1st - but no more than 1.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 21, 2018, 10:02:08 PM
As long as Kapanen, Dermott, and Liljagren aren't part of the deal, I'm not super concerned about the Leafs potentially including a 1st - but no more than 1.

I think I'd rather trade Kapanen than the first.  Unless JvR was traded to recoup another first, then go nuts.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 21, 2018, 10:16:14 PM
I think I'd rather trade Kapanen than the first.  Unless JvR was traded to recoup another first, then go nuts.

I'm pretty confident Kapanen is/will be as good, if not better, than the players who will be available when the Leafs' pick comes around - and he's already contributing at the NHL level. Rather have him now than a player who might be as good as him in 3 years. I mean, we're talking about a pick in the early to mid 20s. The players expected to be drafted in that range aren't super exciting. As long as the team doesn't make a habit out of moving 1st rounders, moving this year's instead of a solid piece like Kapanen is the smarter move, as their window to win the Cup should really open up next season.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on February 21, 2018, 10:17:18 PM
As long as Kapanen, Dermott, and Liljagren aren't part of the deal, I'm not super concerned about the Leafs potentially including a 1st - but no more than 1.

I think I'd rather trade Kapanen than the first.  Unless JvR was traded to recoup another first, then go nuts.
So you think the Leafs late 1st round pick is likely to produce a player better than Kapanen? Kapanen is 21, fast, good offensive skills, kills penalties, effective along the boards...holy cow, I'd much rather give away our first round pick than Kapanen.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bender on February 21, 2018, 10:39:43 PM
My concern with McDonagh is the cost to acquire.  My hope is JvR goes out for some of the assets to get McDonagh.

Just no Lily, and keep at least 1 first.

As long as Kapanen, Dermott, and Liljagren aren't part of the deal, I'm not super concerned about the Leafs potentially including a 1st - but no more than 1.
I also wouldn't want to move Andreas Johnsson
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 21, 2018, 11:28:15 PM
Well, they're going to have to give to get.  They're not getting anything valuable for Brooks and Bracco. 
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 22, 2018, 12:10:17 AM
Essentially, I think we have enough NHL ready wingers to spare one, even as good as Kapanen.

That first improves our chances greatly to keep the cupboard stocked with cost controlled options for the future.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 22, 2018, 12:50:46 AM
Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 22, 2018, 01:08:50 AM
Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.

Stocked with NHL'ers like Kasperi Kapanen.

If you draft someone in the #20-#30 range you are extremely fortunate if they come into the NHL with the skillset that Kapanen has.

If a team values that more than Kapanen, you absolutely tear their hand off.

For every first rounder like Kapanen there are lots like Biggs, Percy and Gauthier.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Hockey fans tend to fetishize the first round pick, it is very valuable, but ultimately it's just a lotto ticket when compared to a youngster like Kapanen.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 22, 2018, 01:12:14 AM
Well, they're going to have to give to get.  They're not getting anything valuable for Brooks and Bracco. 

Exactly, now that the team is good with good prospects nobody wants to give to get.

If you want to trade people a pile of garbage, guess what you get in return?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 02:52:04 AM
Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.

This, incidentally, is why they should be trading their expiring contracts. By adding extra picks you can then trade picks and still have some.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 22, 2018, 07:14:28 AM
Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.

This, incidentally, is why they should be trading their expiring contracts. By adding extra picks you can then trade picks and still have some.

That's the ideal!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 22, 2018, 07:18:23 AM
Stocked with NHL'ers like Kasperi Kapanen.

If you draft someone in the #20-#30 range you are extremely fortunate if they come into the NHL with the skillset that Kapanen has.

If a team values that more than Kapanen, you absolutely tear their hand off.

For every first rounder like Kapanen there are lots like Biggs, Percy and Gauthier.

A bird in hand is worth two in the bush.

Hockey fans tend to fetishize the first round pick, it is very valuable, but ultimately it's just a lotto ticket when compared to a youngster like Kapanen.

Kapanen is part of a group of wingers that we barely have space for.  Starting next year, Johnsson joins that group, possibly Grundstrom as well.

Where do you plan to put these guys? And what do you plan to do when all their contracts are up within a year or two of each other?  It smells like a Chicago situation to me where we'll have to jettison some of these guys at some time. If Kapanen helps us get a #1 dman now, I take that shot.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bullfrog on February 22, 2018, 07:58:01 AM
Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.

This, incidentally, is why they should be trading their expiring contracts. By adding extra picks you can then trade picks and still have some.

I'm on board with this 100%. The prospect pool isn't as deep as it could be.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 08:40:11 AM
Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.

This, incidentally, is why they should be trading their expiring contracts. By adding extra picks you can then trade picks and still have some.

I'm on board with this 100%. The prospect pool isn't as deep as it could be.

Basically the only argument against it at this point is "but what about a long playoff run" in a year where, let's be honest, they're almost certainly going to be an underdog in their first round series.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on February 22, 2018, 08:50:17 AM
Think of it this way: if we're going to be a great team that places high in the standings and goes deep in the playoffs for a long time, we're going to need as many first round picks as we can get to try to keep the pipeline stocked.

This, incidentally, is why they should be trading their expiring contracts. By adding extra picks you can then trade picks and still have some.

I'm on board with this 100%. The prospect pool isn't as deep as it could be.

How quickly we forget this how the Leafs were terribad for so long.  Trading draft picks and young players/prospects.  Next thing you know, you have a team of overpriced aging veterans, no picks, no prospects and a terrible team.

Signing overpriced UFA's seems to be way less catastrophic than emptying out your cupboard.  Signing Marleau was unnecessary, but not ultimately a disaster. 
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 08:56:24 AM
How quickly we forget this how the Leafs were terribad for so long.  Trading draft picks and young players/prospects.  Next thing you know, you have a team of overpriced aging veterans, no picks, no prospects and a terrible team.

I'm not sure what period of time this is referring to but the Leafs problems had way more to do with making bad picks than it did not having picks. The Leafs in the 2000s made about as many draft picks as anyone else.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on February 22, 2018, 09:36:44 AM
How quickly we forget this how the Leafs were terribad for so long.  Trading draft picks and young players/prospects.  Next thing you know, you have a team of overpriced aging veterans, no picks, no prospects and a terrible team.

I'm not sure what period of time this is referring to but the Leafs problems had way more to do with making bad picks than it did not having picks. The Leafs in the 2000s made about as many draft picks as anyone else.

While difficult to say who the Leafs would have picked with the picks they traded away, just by looking at prospects they traded away like Rask, Steen, Stralman and looking at the picks they traded way like Seguin, Hamilton, Josi etc.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 22, 2018, 10:00:35 AM
Y'all should see what the Leafs raked in at the 2003 (the deepest draft ever, until probably 2015), 2004, and 2005 drafts (http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr00008490.html). 1999 and 2000 were also pretty wonderful.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 10:12:11 AM
While difficult to say who the Leafs would have picked with the picks they traded away, just by looking at prospects they traded away like Rask, Steen, Stralman and looking at the picks they traded way like Seguin, Hamilton, Josi etc.

Ok. But it's probably more relevant that they traded multiple picks to draft Luke Schenn than just that they traded multiple picks.


Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 22, 2018, 10:49:11 AM
While difficult to say who the Leafs would have picked with the picks they traded away, just by looking at prospects they traded away like Rask, Steen, Stralman and looking at the picks they traded way like Seguin, Hamilton, Josi etc.

Ok. But it's probably more relevant that they traded multiple picks to draft Luke Schenn than just that they traded multiple picks.
Luc has begotten us JVR who will spawn great things. Luc is a fountain from which all life flows ;)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bender on February 22, 2018, 10:53:56 AM
Well, they're going to have to give to get.  They're not getting anything valuable for Brooks and Bracco.

RE: Johnsson. He's 5th in league scoring. So we're going to give away an AHL asset that will be ready and cost effective literally next year so we can get a rental? I really hope not. Does anyone think we can get over the hump by adding, say, Rick Nash? I don't. We have to replace Komarov, Bozak & JVR next year and pay the kids. Johnsson is a piece in all of that.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on February 22, 2018, 10:55:01 AM
If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 10:55:44 AM

Yay?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 10:58:09 AM
RE: Johnsson. He's 5th in league scoring. So we're going to give away an AHL asset that will be ready and cost effective literally next year so we can get a rental? I really hope not. Does anyone think we can get over the hump by adding, say, Rick Nash? I don't. We have to replace Komarov, Bozak & JVR next year and pay the kids. Johnsson is a piece in all of that.

Nobody is talking about Rick Nash or a rental though. Ryan McDonagh is exactly what this team needs and still has a year left on his contract and there's really no reason to think he would definitely walk at the end of it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bender on February 22, 2018, 11:17:56 AM
RE: Johnsson. He's 5th in league scoring. So we're going to give away an AHL asset that will be ready and cost effective literally next year so we can get a rental? I really hope not. Does anyone think we can get over the hump by adding, say, Rick Nash? I don't. We have to replace Komarov, Bozak & JVR next year and pay the kids. Johnsson is a piece in all of that.

Nobody is talking about Rick Nash or a rental though. Ryan McDonagh is exactly what this team needs and still has a year left on his contract and there's really no reason to think he would definitely walk at the end of it.

It's a bit easier to swallow but I really don't know if McDonagh is the answer. How likely are we to win a cup with McDonagh on the roster in the next 2 years? You add McDonagh now and it limits your ability to plug holes elsewhere in the lineup, especially once Bozak & JVR leave for nothing.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bender on February 22, 2018, 11:20:49 AM
If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.

It depends what the price is. What if they're asking for Kapanen, Johnsson, 1st+?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 11:21:44 AM
It's a bit easier to swallow but I really don't know if McDonagh is the answer. How likely are we to win a cup with McDonagh on the roster in the next 2 years? You add McDonagh now and it limits your ability to plug holes elsewhere in the lineup, especially once Bozak & JVR leave for nothing.

It's way, way easier to replace JVR and Bozak than it is to acquire a comparable defenseman.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 11:25:00 AM
RE: Johnsson. He's 5th in league scoring. So we're going to give away an AHL asset that will be ready and cost effective literally next year so we can get a rental? I really hope not. Does anyone think we can get over the hump by adding, say, Rick Nash? I don't. We have to replace Komarov, Bozak & JVR next year and pay the kids. Johnsson is a piece in all of that.

Nobody is talking about Rick Nash or a rental though. Ryan McDonagh is exactly what this team needs and still has a year left on his contract and there's really no reason to think he would definitely walk at the end of it.

It's a bit easier to swallow but I really don't know if McDonagh is the answer. How likely are we to win a cup with McDonagh on the roster in the next 2 years? You add McDonagh now and it limits your ability to plug holes elsewhere in the lineup, especially once Bozak & JVR leave for nothing.

I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 22, 2018, 11:28:37 AM
I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.

McDonagh is a little different in my mind, though. I see that as a move that's more about next year than these playoffs.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 11:30:08 AM
I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.

McDonagh is a good enough player that you can't really bank on there being a similar opportunity to acquire him when it's most convenient for the Leafs. That isn't to say they should abandon all prudence but we shouldn't treat it like they can just have a top pairing delivered in 30 minutes or he's free.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 11:31:50 AM
It depends what the price is. What if they're asking for Kapanen, Johnsson, 1st+?

I think we can all agree that Kapanen and Johnsson aren't future superstar players, right? I mean I love them both but they project to be cost-effective (until they aren't anymore) middle-6 wingers who can ride shotgun on the top line with Matthews if need be. But they aren't elite players. We aren't talking about Marner or Nylander here. Whether it happens this season, or next season, or the season after that, those 2 are basically exactly the type of players that we're going to have to use to acquire an elite top pairing defenceman like McDonagh.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 22, 2018, 11:34:18 AM
If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.
I can't even fathom a way to improve this D-core internally. I am starting to believe a trade may be required to take this team to the next level. In no way are we going to like what we will have to give up but if it got us at top 2 D man we will a much better team.

What's a realistic ask for Karlsson?  (Kappi, Brown, 1st, and Johnsson) that's probably not enough they will likely require Marner or Nylander or Liljegren.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 22, 2018, 11:35:45 AM
If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.
I can't even fathom a way to improve this D-core internally. I am starting to believe a trade may be required to take this team to the next level. In no way are we going to like what we will have to give up but if it got us at top 2 D man we will a much better team.

What's a realistic ask for Karlsson?  Kappi, Brown, 1st, and Johnsson

I think you are undervaluing Karlsson there.  They want 6 or seven pieces for him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 11:37:31 AM
If the price to land a top pairing/legit #1 defenseman (and not just a rental) includes Kapanen, then you have to seriously consider it. But if you can get away with trading our first rounder this year and keeping Kapanen, I think you have to do that. It probably means you think the team is capable of competing for the Cup in the next 1-3 years, and Kapanen will be more valuable to the team during that period than the draft pick will be. What if Nylander or Marner goes down with a long term injury...Kapanen could possibly step into one of those spots right away. I'm not sure anyone else in the system, including Johnsson, has the skillset Kapanen possesses.
I can't even fathom a way to improve this D-core internally. I am starting to believe a trade may be required to take this team to the next level. In no way are we going to like what we will have to give up but if it got us at top 2 D man we will a much better team.

What's a realistic ask for Karlsson?  Kappi, Brown, 1st, and Johnsson

Ottawa won't trade him here. If they would there's no chance in any universe it wouldn't involve 2 of Nylander, Marner and Liljegren.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 22, 2018, 11:40:28 AM
It's a bit easier to swallow but I really don't know if McDonagh is the answer. How likely are we to win a cup with McDonagh on the roster in the next 2 years? You add McDonagh now and it limits your ability to plug holes elsewhere in the lineup, especially once Bozak & JVR leave for nothing.

It's way, way easier to replace JVR and Bozak than it is to acquire a comparable defenseman.

Agreed.  I have no problem with trading a Kapanen or a Johnsson plus a first and a depth d (ie Borgman or Carrick) to acquire McDonagh.  We'd have the strongest blueline we'd have had in many many years for the next 1.5 seasons (McDonagh-Rielly, Gardiner-Zaitsev, Dermott-Hainsey) and have cap space left to fill the bottom 6 slots left open. 

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Marleau-Kadri-Marner
Johnsson-?-Brown
?-?-Leivo

Really, the main concern I'd have there is finding a decent centerman.  Looking at the available free agents, its Tavares, Stastny, Jumbo Joe and then Bozak might actually be the next best option.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 11:46:13 AM
I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.

McDonagh is a little different in my mind, though. I see that as a move that's more about next year than these playoffs.

Perhaps, but unless you think he is THE solution to our blueline deficits, rather than just the best available guy right now, I think you hold off.  We don't know what we have in Liljegren, for example.  Things might look quite different next year at this team.

To me, we are in a good place going into the playoffs this year.  No pundit really thinks we are a serious contender, yet there is some chance we could catch lightning in a bottle.  Next year will be a different story.  And admittedly, we will need to move to a "win soon" mode pretty quickly to take advantage of a goalie that appears to be entering his prime.  Andersen's "window" is the one that matters most of all.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 11:47:36 AM
I agree with Bender.  I think it was busta who said somewhere that minor tinkering (in terms of additions; I still would not be averse to dealing any of the UFAs at the deadline) if anything is what we should be doing at this point.  Not really a contender yet, though we could just possibly go deep this year if absolutely everything falls into place like it did for OTT last year.  Next year at this time is when some critical decisions will need to be made; if all goes well the window really opens then.

McDonagh is a good enough player that you can't really bank on there being a similar opportunity to acquire him when it's most convenient for the Leafs. That isn't to say they should abandon all prudence but we shouldn't treat it like they can just have a top pairing delivered in 30 minutes or he's free.

And that's not what I'm expecting either, but your point well taken.  As I said, the landscape may be different next year depending on how Liljegren does.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 11:52:20 AM
And that's not what I'm expecting either, but your point well taken.  As I said, the landscape may be different next year depending on how Liljegren does.

I think odds are pretty long that a 19 year old Liljegren makes a big impact next year.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 11:53:33 AM
Perhaps, but unless you think he is THE solution to our blueline deficits, rather than just the best available guy right now, I think you hold off.  We don't know what we have in Liljegren, for example.  Things might look quite different next year at this team.

To me, Liljegren's eventual emergence will allow you to trade Zaitsev eventually (but probably not as early as next year). He still doesn't solve the problem that we need another guy who can handle the top assignments alongside Rielly. We have nobody in our organization who can do that. As some point it's something that we're going to have to bring in, and it should happen sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 11:57:50 AM
And that's not what I'm expecting either, but your point well taken.  As I said, the landscape may be different next year depending on how Liljegren does.

I think odds are pretty long that a 19 year old Liljegren makes a big impact next year.

Maybe, maybe not.  Rielly did at that age.  By this time next year I think the Leafs should have a pretty good projection on what he's likely to be.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 11:59:20 AM
Perhaps, but unless you think he is THE solution to our blueline deficits, rather than just the best available guy right now, I think you hold off.  We don't know what we have in Liljegren, for example.  Things might look quite different next year at this team.

To me, Liljegren's eventual emergence will allow you to trade Zaitsev eventually (but probably not as early as next year). He still doesn't solve the problem that we need another guy who can handle the top assignments alongside Rielly. We have nobody in our organization who can do that. As some point it's something that we're going to have to bring in, and it should happen sooner rather than later.

Opportunity costs.

Like I said, this is a good year to stand pretty pat for us.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 12:04:54 PM
Like I said, this is a good year to stand pretty pat for us.

I really don't get this. You said yourself that "next year will be a different story" and "we will need to move to a "win soon" mode pretty quickly". If a 'McDonagh' type defenceman with 1.5 years left on his contract became available next year at this time would you feel comfortable making a move for him then? Why pass at an opportunity right now that would give us a better chance to win this year, next year, and beyond?

And I don't think it's completely unreasonable to suggest that we actually have a better chance to win the Cup this season than we do next season. Nobody really saw Andersen having a Vezina-like year. It's entirely possible that he takes a small step back next season. Plus the whole losing JVR and Bozak thing is going to hurt our depth one way or another.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 12:08:26 PM
Maybe, maybe not.  Rielly did at that age.

Well A) Rielly was a top 5 pick and B) that "big impact" was scoring 27 points as a sheltered #6 defenseman on a bad team.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 12:10:53 PM
Well A) Rielly was a top 5 pick and B) that "big impact" was scoring 27 points as a sheltered #6 defenseman on a bad team.

Yeah if we're using Rielly as the template for when Liljegren can be reliable upon to be a capable top pairing defenceman who plays against the other teams top opposition then Timmy is still 4 years away. That's 4 years of Matthews/Nylander/Marner's prime.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 22, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
Well A) Rielly was a top 5 pick and B) that "big impact" was scoring 27 points as a sheltered #6 defenseman on a bad team.

Yeah if we're using Rielly as the template for when Liljegren can be reliable upon to be a capable top pairing defenceman who plays against the other teams top opposition then Timmy is still 4 years away. That's 4 years of Matthews/Nylander/Marner's prime.

Some of the better defensemen are able to capably handle that role prior to when Morgan finally managed that.  I don't doubt that being on a bad team for the first few years hurt his development.  But even still, we are talking about AT LEAST 1 more year until Liljegren is likely ready for a 2nd pair role and if everything pans out a 1st pair role the year after that.  At best.  That is as blue-tinted as my glasses can get.


Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 12:25:11 PM

The only defensemen to have big impacts in their draft+2 years or earlier in the last, oh, 15 years that come to mind are Doughty and Ekblad.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 22, 2018, 12:26:11 PM

The only defensemen to have big impacts in their draft+2 years or earlier in the last, oh, 15 years that come to mind are Doughty and Ekblad.

Werenski
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 12:27:15 PM
Werenski

Fair goes.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 22, 2018, 12:33:11 PM
Werenski

Fair goes.

Yeah, he immediately came to mind but you are right- not many others have managed great feats by their age 20 season. 

link (https://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2006&year_max=2018&season_start=1&season_end=-1&rookie=N&age_min=18&age_max=20&pos=D&is_playoffs=N&c1stat=points&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&threshhold=5&order_by=goals)

Interesting the number of guys on that list who haven't exactly had stellar careers either.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 12:35:34 PM
Like I said, this is a good year to stand pretty pat for us.

I really don't get this. You said yourself that "next year will be a different story" and "we will need to move to a "win soon" mode pretty quickly". If a 'McDonagh' type defenceman with 1.5 years left on his contract became available next year at this time would you feel comfortable making a move for him then? Why pass at an opportunity right now that would give us a better chance to win this year, next year, and beyond?

And I don't think it's completely unreasonable to suggest that we actually have a better chance to win the Cup this season than we do next season. Nobody really saw Andersen having a Vezina-like year. It's entirely possible that he takes a small step back next season. Plus the whole losing JVR and Bozak thing is going to hurt our depth one way or another.

Would anybody even being talking about McDonagh as the "solution" if he weren't available?  I don't think so.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 12:35:59 PM
Werenski

Fair goes.

Jones?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 12:36:47 PM
Well A) Rielly was a top 5 pick and B) that "big impact" was scoring 27 points as a sheltered #6 defenseman on a bad team.

Yeah if we're using Rielly as the template for when Liljegren can be reliable upon to be a capable top pairing defenceman who plays against the other teams top opposition then Timmy is still 4 years away. That's 4 years of Matthews/Nylander/Marner's prime.

That's not what I said.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 12:37:26 PM
Yeah, he immediately came to mind but you are right- not many others have managed great feats by their age 20 season. 

link (https://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&year_min=2006&year_max=2018&season_start=1&season_end=-1&rookie=N&age_min=18&age_max=20&pos=D&is_playoffs=N&c1stat=points&c1comp=gt&c1val=30&threshhold=5&order_by=goals)

Interesting the number of guys on that list who haven't exactly had stellar careers either.

Yeah, and a lot of those guys are draft +3(Phaneuf, OEL, Karlsson, etc)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 12:37:33 PM
Would anybody even being talking about McDonagh as the "solution" if he weren't available?  I don't think so.

I'm not sure what this means. We're talking about him as the solution because he is available, yes. Alex Pietrangelo would also be the solution but he's not available so we're not talking about him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 12:42:45 PM
Jones?

For me that's sort of stretching the definition of "big impact" but sure. We're still talking about a number of guys you could count on one hand, most of them being drafted significantly higher than Liljegren went.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 12:47:18 PM
Would anybody even being talking about McDonagh as the "solution" if he weren't available?  I don't think so.

I'm not sure what this means. We're talking about him as the solution because he is available, yes. Alex Pietrangelo would also be the solution but he's not available so we're not talking about him.

What I'm getting at is that there tends to be a bit of euphoria at the deadline amongst us here in the f-base which leads to thinking that whoever is out there and available suddenly becomes the best solution that we have to grab now.  It leads to shattenkirkosis and other death-dealing maladies.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see Ryan McDonagh as some kind of savior that we need to part with significant prospects/picks for at this point in the Shanaplan.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 12:48:22 PM
Jones?

For me that's sort of stretching the definition of "big impact" but sure. We're still talking about a number of guys you could count on one hand, most of them being drafted significantly higher than Liljegren went.

But it COULD happen, right?  You can't absolutely rule it out, so therefore I'm right.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 12:49:48 PM
But it COULD happen, right?  You can't absolutely rule it out, so therefore I'm right.

There is absolutely no precedent for a defenseman picked outside of the top 10 having a season like that so...I'm going to rule no.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 12:54:38 PM
I'm sorry, but I just don't see Ryan McDonagh as some kind of savior that we need to part with significant prospects/picks for at this point in the Shanaplan.

He's a #1 defenceman who is only 28 years old and is signed to a reasonable cap hit for the next two playoff runs. He's solid defensively and he scores a very good amount at 5-on-5. He can skate. He's experienced. He's played a top pairing shutdown role for years. He has leadership qualities. This isn't Kevin Shattenkirk. He's basically the perfect compliment for Rielly on the top pairing. It'd be a bonus if he was right handed but that's hardly the end of the world.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 01:03:29 PM
But it COULD happen, right?  You can't absolutely rule it out, so therefore I'm right.

There is absolutely no precedent for a defenseman picked outside of the top 10 having a season like that so...I'm going to rule no.

Precedent isn't destiny.  However, having said that I realize that bookmaking is a reliable industry so you are certainly entitled to your opinion here.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 01:04:41 PM
I'm sorry, but I just don't see Ryan McDonagh as some kind of savior that we need to part with significant prospects/picks for at this point in the Shanaplan.

He's a #1 defenceman who is only 28 years old and is signed to a reasonable cap hit for the next two playoff runs. He's solid defensively and he scores a very good amount at 5-on-5. He can skate. He's experienced. He's played a top pairing shutdown role for years. He has leadership qualities. This isn't Kevin Shattenkirk. He's basically the perfect compliment for Rielly on the top pairing. It'd be a bonus if he was right handed but that's hardly the end of the world.

So McDonagh is your dream come true?  OK then, but I think it's better to wait.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 01:07:21 PM
Precedent isn't destiny.

Then, heck, why limit it to Liljegren? We may be talking about Fedor Gordeev's Norris season next year.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 22, 2018, 01:08:33 PM
Can someone put Liljegren in a time machine and give him 5 years NHL experience and send him back to us? That would solve a lot of our problems. Please and thank you.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 22, 2018, 01:09:43 PM
Precedent isn't destiny.

Then, heck, why limit it to Liljegren? We may be talking about Fedor Gordeev's Norris season next year.

Gordeev is easier to spell than Liljegren, so that wouldn't be all bad.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 22, 2018, 01:15:24 PM
I'm sorry, but I just don't see Ryan McDonagh as some kind of savior that we need to part with significant prospects/picks for at this point in the Shanaplan.

He's a #1 defenceman who is only 28 years old and is signed to a reasonable cap hit for the next two playoff runs. He's solid defensively and he scores a very good amount at 5-on-5. He can skate. He's experienced. He's played a top pairing shutdown role for years. He has leadership qualities. This isn't Kevin Shattenkirk. He's basically the perfect compliment for Rielly on the top pairing. It'd be a bonus if he was right handed but that's hardly the end of the world.

Do we know if he can play the right side effectively?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 01:18:51 PM
Do we know if he can play the right side effectively?

He's played mostly with right-handed defencemen with the Rangers so I don't think he's ever really had a stretch of games where he's had to. I'm pretty comfortable with Rielly playing on the right side though.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2018, 01:19:52 PM
Precedent isn't destiny.

Then, heck, why limit it to Liljegren? We may be talking about Fedor Gordeev's Norris season next year.

Good point, but it will be dwarfed by the afterglow of our 16-0 march to the Cup.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bender on February 22, 2018, 01:43:24 PM
So what is everyone ok to give up for McDonagh?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 22, 2018, 01:46:12 PM
So McDonagh is your dream come true?  OK then, but I think it's better to wait.

While I'm as cautious as anyone when it comes to trades, with this kind of perspective, you're basically going to be waiting forever. The "dream come true" defenceman isn't going to become available at a price that is palatable - quite likely what the team will have to give up to get him will hurt as much or more than that player will help. They're either going to come with an acquisition cost that is unpalatable or they'll demand a cap hit that causes other significant issues. McDonagh is basically at the upper limit of what will be available at a reasonable/manageable acquisition cost.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 01:49:51 PM
So what is everyone ok to give up for McDonagh?

I mentioned this a couple of pages back, but LeBrun and Custace have both said that the return would probably be similar to what the Rangers gave up when they acquired Keith Yandle a few years ago, that was:

Keith Yandle, Chris Summers and round 4 pick in the 2016 draft (Tarmo Reunanen) to New York Rangers for Anthony Duclair, John Moore, round 2 pick in the 2015 draft (Oliver Kylington) and round 1 pick in the 2016 draft (Dennis Cholowski)

So to me the Leafs equivalent would be something like Kapanen/Brown, Borgman/Carrick/Rosen, 2nd round pick, 1st round pick

Might need a little more to seal the deal but I'd be comfortable with something like that.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on February 22, 2018, 02:25:57 PM
So what is everyone ok to give up for McDonagh?

I mentioned this a couple of pages back, but LeBrun and Custace have both said that the return would probably be similar to what the Rangers gave up when they acquired Keith Yandle a few years ago, that was:

Keith Yandle, Chris Summers and round 4 pick in the 2016 draft (Tarmo Reunanen) to New York Rangers for Anthony Duclair, John Moore, round 2 pick in the 2015 draft (Oliver Kylington) and round 1 pick in the 2016 draft (Dennis Cholowski)

So to me the Leafs equivalent would be something like Kapanen/Brown, Borgman/Carrick/Rosen, 2nd round pick, 1st round pick

Might need a little more to seal the deal but I'd be comfortable with something like that.
If that deal were on the table, who would you rather part with...Kapanen or Brown? I see Kapanen as having higher upside (and he's younger) so that's probably who I'd want if I were the Rangers. Brown is more established but isn't as fast or as good with the puck. Has a nose for the net though.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 22, 2018, 02:39:17 PM
I have no idea how to make this D better without giving up the farm. Is Seabrook a consideration? Robidias Island can be wonderful place late in someone's career.

Kronwall? Johnson?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 02:41:27 PM
So what is everyone ok to give up for McDonagh?

If I'm allowed to dream out loud then ideally the bulk of a McDonagh deal would come from assets gained from the trading of JVR and/or Bozak. If JVR could yield a B+ prospect and a pick and Bozak a second rounder then I think that, plus a first and some filler. I think Brown/Johnsson would be tough sells for a team that figures to be rebuilding if they're going to be 27+ when the team is rebuilt.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 22, 2018, 02:42:39 PM
I have no idea how to make this D better without giving up the farm. Is Seabrook a consideration? Robidias Island can be wonderful place late in someone's career.

Kronwall? Johnson?

Woof.  I wouldn't take Seabrook if Chicago attached their 1st round pick in the deal even if we thought we could Robidas Island him after this year.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 02:45:00 PM
I have no idea how to make this D better without giving up the farm. Is Seabrook a consideration? Robidias Island can be wonderful place late in someone's career.

Kronwall? Johnson?

Hard, hard pass on all 3. Wouldn't take them for free.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 22, 2018, 02:46:13 PM
If that deal were on the table, who would you rather part with...Kapanen or Brown? I see Kapanen as having higher upside (and he's younger) so that's probably who I'd want if I were the Rangers. Brown is more established but isn't as fast or as good with the puck. Has a nose for the net though.

Yeah I'd prefer to keep Kapanen too, but I'd imagine the Rangers would prefer him as well. I'd do what I could to make it Brown, even offering up extra smaller pieces, but if they were deadset on Kapanen I'd understand.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 22, 2018, 02:47:57 PM
I have no idea how to make this D better without giving up the farm. Is Seabrook a consideration? Robidias Island can be wonderful place late in someone's career.

Kronwall? Johnson?

Considering the acquisition cost, contract situations, etc., none have any appeal.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
Man, you what'd be nice to have right now? One of those B/B+ sorts of forward prospects. The sort of guys you accumulate with picks in the high 20's/early 30's and who you can sell as having the value of a late first rounder but with some development years tacked on.

The sort of guy you could have taken with, say, the 31st pick in the draft one year.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 22, 2018, 02:50:46 PM
I have no idea how to make this D better without giving up the farm. Is Seabrook a consideration? Robidias Island can be wonderful place late in someone's career.

Kronwall? Johnson?

Hard, hard pass on all 3. Wouldn't take them for free.
I am trying to come up with attainable names. Unlike the massive names everyone else is throwing out there. Let's not forget Polak/Carrick = woof as well.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 22, 2018, 03:01:09 PM
I am trying to come up with attainable names. Unlike the massive names everyone else is throwing out there. Let's not forget Polak/Carrick = woof as well.

Sure, but the upgrades on Polak/Carrick either come from the significant acquisition at the top of the lineup (aka, players that cost a lot to acquire), or smaller, less flashy pickups.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 22, 2018, 03:02:00 PM
So what is everyone ok to give up for McDonagh?

If I'm allowed to dream out loud then ideally the bulk of a McDonagh deal would come from assets gained from the trading of JVR and/or Bozak. If JVR could yield a B+ prospect and a pick and Bozak a second rounder then I think that, plus a first and some filler. I think Brown/Johnsson would be tough sells for a team that figures to be rebuilding if they're going to be 27+ when the team is rebuilt.

So, not Korshkov either?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 22, 2018, 03:03:12 PM
I have no idea how to make this D better without giving up the farm. Is Seabrook a consideration? Robidias Island can be wonderful place late in someone's career.

Kronwall? Johnson?

Hard, hard pass on all 3. Wouldn't take them for free.
I am trying to come up with attainable names. Unlike the massive names everyone else is throwing out there. Let's not forget Polak/Carrick = woof as well.

You put McDonagh in that top pairing, then Hainsey is quite the upgrade to your 3rd pairing.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2018, 03:03:43 PM
So what is everyone ok to give up for McDonagh?

If I'm allowed to dream out loud then ideally the bulk of a McDonagh deal would come from assets gained from the trading of JVR and/or Bozak. If JVR could yield a B+ prospect and a pick and Bozak a second rounder then I think that, plus a first and some filler. I think Brown/Johnsson would be tough sells for a team that figures to be rebuilding if they're going to be 27+ when the team is rebuilt.

So, not Korshkov either?

Who?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 22, 2018, 03:44:02 PM
I don't see anything big happening. God I hope Liljegren can be good quick.

Intriguing 2018 D UFAs: Chara, Enstrom, Bieksa, Carlson, EMELIN, Hamhuis, Oduya, Cole

No idea what the Shanaplan is to get better on D?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 22, 2018, 04:12:15 PM
I have no idea how to make this D better without giving up the farm. Is Seabrook a consideration? Robidias Island can be wonderful place late in someone's career.

Kronwall? Johnson?

I've mentioned going after Severson before - hopefully with JvR being the primary piece.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 22, 2018, 04:14:51 PM
Is Igor Ozhiganov still a thing? KHL guy the Leafs had the inside track on. His stats look bad compared to previous years.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-likely-team-sign-russian-defenceman-ozhiganov/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-likely-team-sign-russian-defenceman-ozhiganov/)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 22, 2018, 04:32:17 PM
Is Igor Ozhiganov still a thing? KHL guy the Leafs had the inside track on. His stats look bad compared to previous years.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-likely-team-sign-russian-defenceman-ozhiganov/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-likely-team-sign-russian-defenceman-ozhiganov/)

He has to finish out this year in the KHL.  Word is, though, that he's verbally committed to the Leafs.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 22, 2018, 04:44:56 PM
Is Igor Ozhiganov still a thing? KHL guy the Leafs had the inside track on. His stats look bad compared to previous years.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-likely-team-sign-russian-defenceman-ozhiganov/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-likely-team-sign-russian-defenceman-ozhiganov/)

He has to finish out this year in the KHL.  Word is, though, that he's verbally committed to the Leafs.
Well the Shannaplan is probably to do nothing on the blueline then.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 22, 2018, 05:15:07 PM
Is Igor Ozhiganov still a thing? KHL guy the Leafs had the inside track on. His stats look bad compared to previous years.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-likely-team-sign-russian-defenceman-ozhiganov/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/leafs-likely-team-sign-russian-defenceman-ozhiganov/)

He has to finish out this year in the KHL.  Word is, though, that he's verbally committed to the Leafs.
Well the Shannaplan is probably to do nothing on the blueline then.

He's supposedly more likely to start on the 3rd pairing than step in as a top four, so we still need to upgrade.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 22, 2018, 05:25:12 PM
Grabner and Nash won't be playing tonight.  Looks like they're goners for sure.

Boston moved a player for a pick earlier... Speculation is they're after Nash.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 22, 2018, 05:44:08 PM
Hope we don't sell the farm for anyone, trade JVR, Bozak and Komi for the best picks/prospects you can get.  I don't believe in clearing out #1 or 2 picks  and our best prospects for other teams players that are for sale. We always overpay and never get the return. Owen Nolan or that D-Man from the Rangers (can't remember his name, ya my age again), who played for us for what one playoff series. It never seems to work. 
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bender on February 22, 2018, 05:55:24 PM
Hope we don't sell the farm for anyone, trade JVR, Bozak and Komi for the best picks/prospects you can get.  I don't believe in clearing out #1 or 2 picks  and our best prospects for other teams players that are for sale. We always overpay and never get the return. Owen Nolan or that D-Man from the Rangers (can't remember his name, ya my age again), who played for us for what one playoff series. It never seems to work.
Brian Leetch???
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 22, 2018, 06:03:05 PM
Hope we don't sell the farm for anyone, trade JVR, Bozak and Komi for the best picks/prospects you can get.  I don't believe in clearing out #1 or 2 picks  and our best prospects for other teams players that are for sale. We always overpay and never get the return. Owen Nolan or that D-Man from the Rangers (can't remember his name, ya my age again), who played for us for what one playoff series. It never seems to work.
Brian Leetch???
Yep thanks I was breaking my head on that one.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WAYNEINIONA on February 22, 2018, 06:19:31 PM
I must be missing something. Why are so many determined to get rid of JVR?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 22, 2018, 06:27:49 PM
I must be missing something. Why are so many determined to get rid of JVR?

There's at least a couple reasons that may or may not be independent of each other (depending on the person):

1) our chances to win the cup are extremely slim, so sell off the UFAs and continue building.
2) sacrifice JvR (and some offense and PP power) in order to upgrade defence (ex: McDonough)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 22, 2018, 06:57:34 PM
I must be missing something. Why are so many determined to get rid of JVR?

The idea is trade him now instead of losing him for nothing in the summer.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: caveman on February 22, 2018, 07:08:46 PM
it looks like there is some real team chemistry on the Leafs this year.....don't know if that makes a difference at the trade deadline...but the 4 forward lines are rolling....
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 22, 2018, 07:51:37 PM
I must be missing something. Why are so many determined to get rid of JVR?
Don't get me wrong, I love JVR and I wanted him and Kessel and we got both of them, yes Phil had to go, but JVR is going to demand big $$$ as a premier scorer in the league.  The real problem in the cap age is how are you going to pay, Matthews, Marner and Nylander and some of the others in the next two years.
Somehow we need to get some of our other up and comers into the lineup.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 23, 2018, 10:43:48 AM
So if Matthews is hurt long term, in a worst case scenario situation, does that change the Leafs approach to the deadline?

I can see both sides of the coin.  On the one hand, Matthews is a major part of your team and he is integral to what you are trying to accomplish.  If he is done for the season, this reduces the likely hood that you are going to have success in the post season, so do you take a more "This isn't our year" approach, sell off some players, get some asssets and then reload for next year when he is healthy?  That would seem to be the prudent course of action.

However, it's still a team game.  You can't just pull the plug on the season because one guy gets hurt, even if he is your most valuable skater (goalies excluded), and the message you would be sending to the rest of the team would be less than encouraging to say the least.  Basically you would be saying you bunch of slugs are nothing without Matthews so why even try?  But you still don't want to spend assets on rentals, or even shorter term solutions because you could be potentially losing a year in which you can viably compete for the cup.

Maybe the best course of action is to just do nothing.  Maybe it still makes sense to try and get a guy like McDonough.  If this Matthews injury is serious though, it does complicate things.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 23, 2018, 10:51:25 AM
Looking at the replay, how serious could the Matthews injury be?  Even if it's a separated shoulder, that should only be weeks for recovery depending on how severe.  Not like it's a leg/knee issue that would take months.

That being said, I think his injury 100% changes what the Leafs plan to do at the deadline.  If worst case he's out long term, they'll most likely try to add more futures by unloading expiring contracts, the fans will understand too.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 23, 2018, 10:58:57 AM
If its a seperated shoulder then their could be labrum issues and then he would be done for a long time, hope it is not a collarbone.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 11:15:10 AM
Looking at the replay, how serious could the Matthews injury be?  Even if it's a separated shoulder, that should only be weeks for recovery depending on how severe.  Not like it's a leg/knee issue that would take months.

That being said, I think his injury 100% changes what the Leafs plan to do at the deadline.  If worst case he's out long term, they'll most likely try to add more futures by unloading expiring contracts, the fans will understand too.

Yeah I'd be pretty surprised if this was something that ended his season or something like that.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 23, 2018, 11:28:34 AM
Looking at the replay, how serious could the Matthews injury be?  Even if it's a separated shoulder, that should only be weeks for recovery depending on how severe.  Not like it's a leg/knee issue that would take months.

That being said, I think his injury 100% changes what the Leafs plan to do at the deadline.  If worst case he's out long term, they'll most likely try to add more futures by unloading expiring contracts, the fans will understand too.

Yeah I'd be pretty surprised if this was something that ended his season or something like that.

I'd give him extra rest if anything. Our spot is locked. Give Willy a spin centering Hyman and Leivo (showcase!) behind Kadri's line.

Also, keeping Matthews (artificially) outside of the top 10 in goal scoring frees up even more space next season with his reduced performance bonus ($2M for Schedule B, right?).

I highly doubt that it turns them towards selling off JvR/Bozak/Komarov more readily. Players on the roster don't care about prospects and draft picks in return. If they're having a good season (we are), morale is damaged by selling off UFAs at the deadline unless there is a clear cut roster return (e.g. Bozak for Tavares).
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 23, 2018, 11:44:52 AM
Looking at the replay, how serious could the Matthews injury be?  Even if it's a separated shoulder, that should only be weeks for recovery depending on how severe.  Not like it's a leg/knee issue that would take months.

That being said, I think his injury 100% changes what the Leafs plan to do at the deadline.  If worst case he's out long term, they'll most likely try to add more futures by unloading expiring contracts, the fans will understand too.

Yeah I'd be pretty surprised if this was something that ended his season or something like that.

I'd give him extra rest if anything. Our spot is locked. Give Willy a spin centering Hyman and Leivo (showcase!) behind Kadri's line.

Also, keeping Matthews (artificially) outside of the top 10 in goal scoring frees up even more space next season with his reduced performance bonus ($2M for Schedule B, right?).

I highly doubt that it turns them towards selling off JvR/Bozak/Komarov more readily. Players on the roster don't care about prospects and draft picks in return. If they're having a good season (we are), morale is damaged by selling off UFAs at the deadline unless there is a clear cut roster return (e.g. Bozak for Tavares).

Bolded made me laugh.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 11:52:54 AM
Also, keeping Matthews (artificially) outside of the top 10 in goal scoring frees up even more space next season with his reduced performance bonus ($2M for Schedule B, right?).

That can be reached on a goals per game, so he basically has that locked down.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 23, 2018, 11:55:25 AM
Also, keeping Matthews (artificially) outside of the top 10 in goal scoring frees up even more space next season with his reduced performance bonus ($2M for Schedule B, right?).

That can be reached on a goals per game, so he basically has that locked down.

Is there somewhere I could see a list of the Schedule B opportunities Matthews has at the $2M?
I'm guessing there's top 10 G, top 10 Gpg, scoring awards, etc.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 11:59:22 AM
Is there somewhere I could see a list of the Schedule B opportunities Matthews has at the $2M?
I'm guessing there's top 10 G, top 10 Gpg, scoring awards, etc.

Chris Johnson broke down everyone's potential bonuses last season here: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-rookie-success-hurt-teams-cap-situation/

He says his schedule B bonuses are only for top-10 in goals or top-10 among forwards in goals per game.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 23, 2018, 12:08:01 PM
Bolded made me laugh.

That was indeed (and usually is) my intention!

If the Leafs do anything with their expiring UFAs, it'll be towards a non-rental core augmenter, but more likely to be drawing from the pool of prospects rather than the UFAs.

I'm trying to remember who did this, but an unofficial poll of some GMs about what they'd pay for JvR at the deadline was pretty high (1st rd pick, top prospect, plus). I can see the Metro division clawing over one another for him. I can see the offense-by-committee teams taking a healthy swing too.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 23, 2018, 12:10:41 PM
Is there somewhere I could see a list of the Schedule B opportunities Matthews has at the $2M?
I'm guessing there's top 10 G, top 10 Gpg, scoring awards, etc.

Chris Johnson broke down everyone's potential bonuses last season here: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-rookie-success-hurt-teams-cap-situation/

He says his schedule B bonuses are only for top-10 in goals or top-10 among forwards in goals per game.

Wouldn't you know it, it's the exact article I was looking at prior to posting, but I didn't scroll down past the prose because I remembered reading it last year.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 23, 2018, 01:31:16 PM
Bolded made me laugh.

That was indeed (and usually is) my intention!

If the Leafs do anything with their expiring UFAs, it'll be towards a non-rental core augmenter, but more likely to be drawing from the pool of prospects rather than the UFAs.

I'm trying to remember who did this, but an unofficial poll of some GMs about what they'd pay for JvR at the deadline was pretty high (1st rd pick, top prospect, plus). I can see the Metro division clawing over one another for him. I can see the offense-by-committee teams taking a healthy swing too.

Oh it was Dreger?

He probably only polled Nonis, so nvm
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 02:07:07 PM
'A' prospect can be pretty subjective, but if we're talking like a Liljegren or Kapanen type then I don't see how you don't make that trade.

I'd also be a little surprised if that's what he actually brought back though. Maybe he meant to say "a" prospect, not 'A' prospect.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 23, 2018, 02:19:56 PM
'A' prospect can be pretty subjective, but if we're talking like a Liljegren or Kapanen type then I don't see how you don't make that trade.

I'd also be a little surprised if that's what he actually brought back though. Maybe he meant to say "a" prospect, not 'A' prospect.

With rumours around that Nashville, to boost scoring, is looking to excavate the corpse of Rick Nash would you do a Fabbro + 1st?

Because I sure as sugar would.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 02:22:41 PM
With rumours around that Nashville, to boost scoring, is looking to excavate the corpse of Rick Nash would you do a Fabbro + 1st?

Because I sure as sugar would.

I'm pretty sure I said last offseason that I'd do JVR for Fabbro straight up, so heck yeah. I just don't think teams get that silly on deadline day with rentals anymore.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 23, 2018, 02:25:18 PM
I'm pretty sure I said last offseason that I'd do JVR for Fabbro straight up, so heck yeah. I just don't think teams get that silly on deadline day with rentals anymore.

No, although Nashville's in a weird situation after getting Turris without giving up any defensemen. I get that they want to keep depth in the system but they're close to just having no room on the blueline.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 02:28:25 PM
No, although Nashville's in a weird situation after getting Turris without giving up any defensemen. I get that they want to keep depth in the system but they're close to just having no room on the blueline.

They might have to lose Ellis to free agency by the time Fabbro is really ready to step in.

Something to keep in mind with Nashville too is that they're reportedly bringing their uber-prospect Eeli Tolvanen over after his season ends in Europe. That'll basically be a deadline type acquisition for them. That'll give them Forsberg-Fiala-Tolvanen-Hartnell on the left side.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 23, 2018, 02:36:36 PM
They might have to lose Ellis to free agency by the time Fabbro is really ready to step in.

Even still, there's a limit to how valuable a team is going to think a guy is if their structure limits him to being a #4 guy.

Something to keep in mind with Nashville too is that they're reportedly bringing their uber-prospect Eeli Tolvanen over after his season ends in Europe. That'll basically be a deadline type acquisition for them. That'll give them Forsberg-Fiala-Tolvanen-Hartnell on the left side.

Huh. NHL.com had him as a RW but that seems to not be the case elsewhere. Either way he's still pretty young and pretty small. I don't think it'd be too hard a sell to convince them they'd maybe be better suited being patient with him and adding size/experience/a surer thing in JVR.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 23, 2018, 02:42:59 PM
I have the Bobcast queued up, but havent had a chance to dive into it yet to get Dregers actual annunciation to determine whether he meant a prospect or A prospect.

I was thinking of shopping JvR to the Islanders/Devils/Flyers/Hurricanes to see who wants to jump to the top of the pile.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 02:44:08 PM
I have the Bobcast queued up, but havent had a chance to dive into it yet to get Dregers actual annunciation to determine whether he meant a prospect or A prospect.

I initially meant that as a joke but I do wonder if that's what happened now.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 02:44:49 PM
They might have to lose Ellis to free agency by the time Fabbro is really ready to step in.

Even still, there's a limit to how valuable a team is going to think a guy is if their structure limits him to being a #4 guy.

Something to keep in mind with Nashville too is that they're reportedly bringing their uber-prospect Eeli Tolvanen over after his season ends in Europe. That'll basically be a deadline type acquisition for them. That'll give them Forsberg-Fiala-Tolvanen-Hartnell on the left side.

Huh. NHL.com had him as a RW but that seems to not be the case elsewhere. Either way he's still pretty young and pretty small. I don't think it'd be too hard a sell to convince them they'd maybe be better suited being patient with him and adding size/experience/a surer thing in JVR.

Hey, I've said before I'd be ok with just holding onto JVR but if that's the return then I certainly hope you're right.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 23, 2018, 03:01:51 PM
I have the Bobcast queued up, but havent had a chance to dive into it yet to get Dregers actual annunciation to determine whether he meant a prospect or A prospect.

I initially meant that as a joke but I do wonder if that's what happened now.

When you find out, let us know please.  It'll be the biggest such thing since the debate over what Neil Armstrong actually said as he stepped onto the moon.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 23, 2018, 03:09:53 PM
This was part of a larger discussion about how the Leafs should move forward. Leafs stuff starts at 42:50 (Soundcloud (https://soundcloud.com/tsn-hockey-bobcast/the-tsn-hockey-bobcast-season-2-episode-12)); this conversation is a bit past the McDonagh talk. Transcription errors are mine, if any.

Dreger: I pulled a page off Bob's playbook and I contacted a couple of general managers today just specific to James van Reimsdyk, and I asked, "What would the market be for James van Reimsdyk." And the response that I got, "He'd be top of the class. He'd be the highest ranked forward."

LeBrun: You mean on July 1st? Or you mean, right now...

Dreger: Today! It would be a first, it would be an A prospect or a couple of prospects, and again that traditional conditional pick. You're talking about 4 key pieces! So, you know, for Lou to weigh it, to, you know, err on the side of 'well, let's see how we do in the playoffs because there's value in the experience of that process' versus getting all of that and maybe getting in the OEL sweepstakes or something like that in the offseason? That's curious.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 03:12:07 PM
Hmmm I think I'm going to need a linguistic expert to comb through that first.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bullfrog on February 23, 2018, 03:16:29 PM
I'd be pretty disappointed if they weren't shopping JvR hard.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 23, 2018, 03:25:37 PM
The earlier part of the conversation was about how no one was quite sure if Lou was really in on a trade potential or just dabbling because he would always really lowball it on the first pass.

So we've made an offer for McDonagh, but it was on the lower end of everyone else's pitch.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2018, 03:29:28 PM
So we've made an offer for McDonagh, but it was on the lower end of everyone else's pitch.

Lou: We'll give you Josh Leivo.

NYR GM: Lou... I respect the hell out of you but I mean Ryan McDonagh is a top-pairing defenc...

Lou: And a 3rd.

NYR GM: ...

Lou: In 2021.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: IJustLurkHere on February 23, 2018, 04:50:33 PM
I'd be pretty disappointed if they weren't shopping JvR hard.

Do people really  expect this? When has a playoff team (even one on the bubble, which the leafs aren't) ever traded a 30 goal scorer out?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 23, 2018, 05:20:18 PM
Do people really  expect this? When has a playoff team (even one on the bubble, which the leafs aren't) ever traded a 30 goal scorer out?

Last year the St. Louis Blues, a playoff team, traded a top pairing defenseman out.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 23, 2018, 07:16:20 PM
Why are you guys suggesting the Leafs should trade JVR?  The Leafs are a few points out from being the top team in the league right now.  I say change nothing.  They are rolling right now and they have good chemistry.  They actually have a somewhat decent chance of going to the cup this year.  It's not easy to do that.  I have watched them play against great teams like Tampa Bay, Nashville, and Boston lately and I really think this team is for real.  While it would be tempting to trade JVR for a nice haul, I don't think I would do it, personally.  JVR has practically as many goals as Auston Matthews.  He is extremely talented.  JVR was the one good thing Brian Burke did for Toronto.  He fleeced Philly's GM at the time.

If the Leafs do anything, the should make a somewhat minor addition.  Not a big splash.  They have numerous spare parts like Josh Leivo who they can parlay into something they could use, like a decent defenseman that would keep Polak out of the lineup.  He doesn't even have to be all that great.  Polak is pretty terrible IMO.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 23, 2018, 07:30:29 PM
They actually have a somewhat decent chance of going to the cup this year. 

I think that's the point of contention. Right now they're probably underdogs to make it out of the first round.
 
JVR was the one good thing Brian Burke did for Toronto.  He fleeced Philly's GM at the time.

Burke drafted Kadri, Rielly and Brown, signed Bozak, traded for Gardiner...
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 23, 2018, 07:32:04 PM
Lets bring him back when Lou signs on for Yoda in the next Star Wars franchise.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 23, 2018, 08:55:14 PM
They actually have a somewhat decent chance of going to the cup this year. 

I think that's the point of contention. Right now they're probably underdogs to make it out of the first round.
 
JVR was the one good thing Brian Burke did for Toronto.  He fleeced Philly's GM at the time.

Burke drafted Kadri, Rielly and Brown, signed Bozak, traded for Gardiner...
Didn't one of the draft picks he traded for Kessel turn into Tyler Seguin?  I'm pretty sure it did.  Another one became Dougie Hamilton.  There was another pick also.  IIRC it was two firsts and a second for Kessel.  Essentially now we have Kapanen to show for all that.  Perhaps there were outside influences but I'm not a fan of what Brian Burke did in Toronto.  Yes, you can cherry pick the good things he did.  Overall he was slightly less of a disaster than John Ferguson, though, IMO.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 23, 2018, 09:06:07 PM
Didn't one of the draft picks he traded for Kessel turn into Tyler Seguin?  I'm pretty sure it did.  Another one became Dougie Hamilton.  There was another pick also.

Yes, I am on record as not having liked the Kessel deal too.

  IIRC it was two firsts and a second for Kessel.  Essentially now we have Kapanen to show for all that.

The first round pick acquired from Pittsburgh went to Anaheim for Andersen so Kapanen and 60% of Andersen, roughly.

  Perhaps there were outside influences but I'm not a fan of what Brian Burke did in Toronto.  Yes, you can cherry pick the good things he did.  Overall he was slightly less of a disaster than John Ferguson, though, IMO.

I'm not advocating for Burke's time here, just saying you were exaggerating things. JVR, Bozak, Kadri, Gardiner, Brown and Rielly represent 30% of the active roster of the current team and pretty significant parts of it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 23, 2018, 09:11:00 PM
you were exaggerating things
I probably was.  That was a dark time to be a Leafs fan.  I did not enjoy it.  You are right, Burke did some good things and the remaining players on our roster are testament to that.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on February 23, 2018, 09:16:35 PM
One could also argue that Burke, through his decisions to trade for and build the team around Kessel, and hire Carlyle as coach...laid the groundwork for the Leafs to descend to the NHL depths and eventually draft Matthews. So maybe he deserves even more credit.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: IJustLurkHere on February 23, 2018, 11:50:15 PM
Do people really  expect this? When has a playoff team (even one on the bubble, which the leafs aren't) ever traded a 30 goal scorer out?

Last year the St. Louis Blues, a playoff team, traded a top pairing defenseman out.

Okay, good example, it CAN happen. Still seems unlikely.

My recollection is the Blues were in a position where they were really averse to letting yet annother big name walk away for nothing in a year where they weren't as competitive as in other recent seasons. He was a rumoured trade all season long... Where this is the most competitive Leafs team in 15 years. Maybe someone makes an offer to blow Lou's socks off, but I doubt he'd be working the phones himself on JVR.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 24, 2018, 05:00:39 AM
Do people really  expect this? When has a playoff team (even one on the bubble, which the leafs aren't) ever traded a 30 goal scorer out?

Last year the St. Louis Blues, a playoff team, traded a top pairing defenseman out.

Okay, good example, it CAN happen. Still seems unlikely.

My recollection is the Blues were in a position where they were really averse to letting yet annother big name walk away for nothing in a year where they weren't as competitive as in other recent seasons. He was a rumoured trade all season long... Where this is the most competitive Leafs team in 15 years. Maybe someone makes an offer to blow Lou's socks off, but I doubt he'd be working the phones himself on JVR.

Well, regardless of whether I think he will I definitely think he should. Because if the choice comes down to trading JVR for the best return or keeping him for a potential playoff run then when the team makes that decision I think they should make that choice knowing what that best return would be. If it's something like Fabbro, a first and a conditional pick that's one decision, if it's a low first/high second and a 3rd then that's a different consideration.

But to your point I think most of us would acknowledge that trading JVR right now would be a unconventional and risky move and most NHL GM's tend to avoid unconventional moves and are risk-averse. That said I think a lot of us feel as though unconventional moves can still be good moves and the risk here is actually somewhat in a hockey sense( if the Leafs struggle to score in the playoffs the criticism from fans/media might be intense but JVR seems unlikely to make that big of a difference himself). Trading JVR instead of letting him walk seems kind of smart, to some of us, with a limited downside.

Also, I think you're again making an assumption that trading JVR would necessarily leave the team worse off competitively in an immediate sense and while that's an option the Leafs could take, trading JVR for futures, it's only one option. Another, as has been discussed, would be taking a good haul of prospects/picks for JVR and then flipping that haul to someone like the Rangers for McDonagh. Then you can put McDonagh on the blueline and try to replace JVR's production up front with a bigger role for Kapanen and maybe calling up Johnsson. Indirectly trading a top line LW for a top pairing D would again be unusual at this point in the season but it wouldn't necessarily hurt the team.

So do I expect JVR to be traded...no, not really. But I think they should all the same. Especially if the return is high and the potential for a move like that with the Rangers exists.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bill_Berg on February 24, 2018, 08:33:54 AM
It's true that JVR would be a playoff asset,  but it's a hard road to the ECF. If JVR is worth a bag of gold, they should move him. I like the idea of flipping the return for a guy like McDonagh. The Leafs need to gain in the long term and losing JVR to free agency is losing in the long term.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 24, 2018, 09:46:42 AM
They actually have a somewhat decent chance of going to the cup this year. 

I think that's the point of contention. Right now they're probably underdogs to make it out of the first round.

The Leafs path to the Cup will definitely go through Boston and Tampa through the first two rounds and probably Pittsburgh in the 3rd round. At this point those are the clear cut top-3 teams in the East right now. Maybe even the top-3 teams in the entire league. But yeah I mean if they get through those guys I like our chances!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Andy on February 24, 2018, 10:03:27 AM
It's true that JVR would be a playoff asset,  but it's a hard road to the ECF. If JVR is worth a bag of gold, they should move him. I like the idea of flipping the return for a guy like McDonagh. The Leafs need to gain in the long term and losing JVR to free agency is losing in the long term.

And the thing is, Toronto can still potentially re-sign JVR. I think it's a no brainer to move him, particularly if the return is more than enough to cover the cost of McDonagh, but I also don't think there's a lick of a chance it will happen.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 24, 2018, 11:42:45 AM
Brassard to the Penguins is going to make them very tough to beat. Wonder why we didn't take a big stab at him.  He is a real goud pro.
always liked his game. 
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 24, 2018, 11:52:06 AM
Brassard to the Penguins is going to make them very tough to beat. Wonder why we didn't take a big stab at him.  He is a real goud pro.
always liked his game.

Ok, so, just to be clear...the Leafs aren't going to get a good deal on players from Ottawa and even if they were it'd be a lot to spend on a guy who is maybe an upgrade on Bozak.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 24, 2018, 11:59:20 AM
Brassard to the Penguins is going to make them very tough to beat. Wonder why we didn't take a big stab at him.  He is a real goud pro.
always liked his game. 
I'm glad they didn't give up 6 assets to get him. I sure wouldn't be giving up a 1st rounder for him. He's not really an upgrade over Bozak.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 24, 2018, 12:08:29 PM

Probably doesn't happen... but... if the Leafs were looking for a cheap centre to have round just in case while Matthews is out Holland wouldn't be the worst option.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 24, 2018, 03:12:44 PM

Probably doesn't happen... but... if the Leafs were looking for a cheap centre to have round just in case while Matthews is out Holland wouldn't be the worst option.
Sure why not, it's costs nothing.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Joe S. on February 24, 2018, 03:42:51 PM

Probably doesn't happen... but... if the Leafs were looking for a cheap centre to have round just in case while Matthews is out Holland wouldn't be the worst option.
Sure why not, it's costs nothing.

Except a roster and contract spot.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 24, 2018, 04:00:11 PM

Probably doesn't happen... but... if the Leafs were looking for a cheap centre to have round just in case while Matthews is out Holland wouldn't be the worst option.
Sure why not, it's costs nothing.

Except a roster and contract spot.

Yeah, I think Carlton might be drunk.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bender on February 24, 2018, 05:30:31 PM
The trade deadline suspense is killing me
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 24, 2018, 06:28:54 PM
Sure why not, it's costs nothing.

Except a roster and contract spot.

Throw Matthews on the IR and you've got a roster spot. The rosters expand post-deadline so after that it won't be a problem.

He has a contract for next season too though which isn't exactly the most ideal thing, but we'll likely need a new 'Leivo' to sit in the press box for every game. He'd be perfect for that.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 24, 2018, 06:31:16 PM
Yeah, I think Carlton might be drunk.

Beats going after Glendening.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 24, 2018, 10:06:35 PM
So, who do you all think will no longer be a Leaf come Monday night's game in TB?

I say Connor Brown and Johnsson (+ a 1st) for McDonagh.  And that's it.  I don't think they'll trade any of the the UFAs.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bullfrog on February 25, 2018, 11:20:16 AM
With the Nash trade, the Leafs have to pull the trigger on JvR. He's more valuable than Nash and even more valuable if the Leafs retain max salary on him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 25, 2018, 11:27:03 AM
With the Nash trade, the Leafs have to pull the trigger on JvR. He's more valuable than Nash and even more valuable if the Leafs retain max salary on him.
Did you not see them beat Boston last night without Auston Matthews?  Did you see JVR's ridiculous deflection pass to set up Kadri's goal?

All I have to say is that it had better be a king's ransom in return for JVR.  I think the Leafs should not change anything.  They are beating the league's best teams with their current lineup.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 25, 2018, 11:34:19 AM
With the Nash trade, the Leafs have to pull the trigger on JvR. He's more valuable than Nash and even more valuable if the Leafs retain max salary on him.

Yeah, I'm still in that camp. The Leafs have to be thinking about more than just this year's playoffs. The chance to flip JVR into a solid run with McDonagh or another comparable defenseman I think is too great considering the prospect depth at wing.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 25, 2018, 11:40:08 AM
With the Nash trade, the Leafs have to pull the trigger on JvR. He's more valuable than Nash and even more valuable if the Leafs retain max salary on him.

Yeah, I'm still in that camp. The Leafs have to be thinking about more than just this year's playoffs. The chance to flip JVR into a solid run with McDonagh or another comparable defenseman I think is too great considering the prospect depth at wing.

I really hope they do, but it still feels like they aren't going to, and that feels like a mistake.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 25, 2018, 11:42:45 AM
With the Nash trade, the Leafs have to pull the trigger on JvR. He's more valuable than Nash and even more valuable if the Leafs retain max salary on him.
Did you not see them beat Boston last night without Auston Matthews?  Did you see JVR's ridiculous deflection pass to set up Kadri's goal?

All I have to say is that it had better be a king's ransom in return for JVR.  I think the Leafs should not change anything.  They are beating the league's best teams with their current lineup.
Did you not see Boston's third goal where JVR clearly had the guy covered yet let him go and score. Sorry but he is a defensive liability and efforts like that have no place on this team. Having said that he is more valuable then Nash so he should get a good return. Leo is another guy that needs to go.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 25, 2018, 11:43:56 AM
This was mentioned before but what is Boston going to do with two R. Nash's on the team.
Nash#1 and Nash#2  (like boys in a family). To really confuse the issue they should both wear the same number.
I am getting dizzy. 
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: nutman on February 25, 2018, 03:35:37 PM
Think OTT would want JVR and a package.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 25, 2018, 03:44:39 PM

Pretty sure Ottawa isn't interested in a soon to be UFA like JVR.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bullfrog on February 25, 2018, 05:38:48 PM
With the Nash trade, the Leafs have to pull the trigger on JvR. He's more valuable than Nash and even more valuable if the Leafs retain max salary on him.
Did you not see them beat Boston last night without Auston Matthews?  Did you see JVR's ridiculous deflection pass to set up Kadri's goal?

All I have to say is that it had better be a king's ransom in return for JVR.  I think the Leafs should not change anything.  They are beating the league's best teams with their current lineup.

I sure did. I even made a joke about how that increased his value. I love JvR. But I would prefer long term success with the Leafs and trading him for assets rather than losing him for nothing increases the chances of that happening.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 25, 2018, 06:10:45 PM
Rangers GM admits that he's exploring the trade market on McDonagh:

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 25, 2018, 06:21:36 PM
With the Nash trade, the Leafs have to pull the trigger on JvR. He's more valuable than Nash and even more valuable if the Leafs retain max salary on him.
Did you not see them beat Boston last night without Auston Matthews?  Did you see JVR's ridiculous deflection pass to set up Kadri's goal?

All I have to say is that it had better be a king's ransom in return for JVR.  I think the Leafs should not change anything.  They are beating the league's best teams with their current lineup.

I sure did. I even made a joke about how that increased his value. I love JvR. But I would prefer long term success with the Leafs and trading him for assets rather than losing him for nothing increases the chances of that happening.
Agree..I hope the Leafs move him. Nice player but not affordable moving forward.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Dappleganger on February 25, 2018, 06:52:30 PM
With the Nash trade, the Leafs have to pull the trigger on JvR. He's more valuable than Nash and even more valuable if the Leafs retain max salary on him.
Did you not see them beat Boston last night without Auston Matthews?  Did you see JVR's ridiculous deflection pass to set up Kadri's goal?

All I have to say is that it had better be a king's ransom in return for JVR.  I think the Leafs should not change anything.  They are beating the league's best teams with their current lineup.

I sure did. I even made a joke about how that increased his value. I love JvR. But I would prefer long term success with the Leafs and trading him for assets rather than losing him for nothing increases the chances of that happening.
Agree..I hope the Leafs move him. Nice player but not affordable moving forward.

I think the Leafs could afford JVR going forward. $2m raise on his current deal.

$6.25 x 6 years. I think it's possible.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: L K on February 25, 2018, 07:03:11 PM

Pretty sure Ottawa isn't interested in a soon to be UFA like JVR.

Pretty sure Ottawa isn't interested in a player who is going to make more than 5 million dollars.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Dappleganger on February 25, 2018, 08:43:15 PM

Pretty sure Ottawa isn't interested in a soon to be UFA like JVR.

Definitely not. Trade JVR to whoever gives you the best 1st rnd pick and send that to Ottawa as part of the deal.
 
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 25, 2018, 11:44:59 PM
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2532370-assessing-lou-lamoriellos-legacy-with-the-devils-how-bad-was-his-final-decade (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2532370-assessing-lou-lamoriellos-legacy-with-the-devils-how-bad-was-his-final-decade)

Which Lou will show up for work tomorrow?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 11:28:03 AM
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/fourth-line-winger-music-video~1333768
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 26, 2018, 01:43:43 PM

Kypreos just said the Leafs have made an offer on McDonagh.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 01:58:56 PM

Kypreos just said the Leafs have made an offer on McDonagh.

(https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/1355589814_excited.gif)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: nutman on February 26, 2018, 02:01:15 PM
Am not sure i believe it, as Lou just don't let this kind of stuff out until its done.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 02:05:55 PM
Am not sure i believe it, as Lou just don't let this kind of stuff out until its done.

The Plekanec trade was rumoured the day before it happened.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 26, 2018, 02:07:10 PM
Am not sure i believe it, as Lou just don't let this kind of stuff out until its done.

From the Leafs' side, sure, but he can't control the leakage on the other end.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 26, 2018, 02:12:37 PM
If there more details being leaked, then, yeah, I'd say there's nothing to it. But vague rumblings about a clear fit? I buy it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 26, 2018, 02:17:59 PM
There are only two sure things in life: (1) death and (2) that there will be a rumored blockbuster involving the Leafs that originates about an hour or so before the trade deadline.

Taxes used to be on the list but rich people don't pay 'em anymore, here.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 26, 2018, 02:19:22 PM
If anyone needs me, I have to run off to the recycling center now.  I'll be back later, after the earth shifts on its axis.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 02:19:42 PM
Nikitia Zaitsev's exact contract terms were leaked like a month before it was announced. Everybody knew that they were talking to Marleau before that signing happened. Their interest in Andersen was rumoured prior to the trade. Again, it was said 2 days ago that Plekanec was linked to the Leafs. The idea that nothing leaks from the Leafs just isn't true, even if it isn't coming directly out of the Leafs front office.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 26, 2018, 02:30:07 PM

I really doubt Kypreos would say something like that with nothing behind it. There's no reason for him to lie or for anyone involved in the trade(and these are the two organizations Kypreos is most likely to have sources in) to lie to him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 02:36:25 PM

That's not not us!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 02:52:54 PM

That's not not us!

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself, and potentially the Leafs doing something stupid like trading Marner/Nylander, and paper jams.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 02:54:49 PM
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself, and potentially the Leafs doing something stupid like trading Marner/Nylander, and paper jams.

The fact that it wasn't already announced is pretty clear indication that we haven't offered Marner/Nylander for anyone. If those names ever come up from our side, other teams will just take it and run.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 02:57:31 PM
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself, and potentially the Leafs doing something stupid like trading Marner/Nylander, and paper jams.

The fact that it wasn't already announced is pretty clear indication that we haven't offered Marner/Nylander for anyone. If those names ever come up from our side, other teams will just take it and run.

Not necessarily.  If one of those names came up, I'm pretty sure the rival GM would feel Lou has lost it, and they would want to see how far they could take it before they got Matthews too.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: azzurri63 on February 26, 2018, 02:59:38 PM
Get a kick at this whole TSN Tradecentre show. Whata joke. 10 hours so much hype, huge panel of insiders for what. Odd trade here and there. Hilarious listening to these guys. Every year same crap. Actually people that watch this for 10 hours.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Dappleganger on February 26, 2018, 03:00:10 PM
The only way the names Nylander or Marner come up is in a trade for Karlsson and I'm not sure I'd be willing to do that.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 26, 2018, 03:01:17 PM
There goes the buzzer!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 26, 2018, 03:02:11 PM
Get a kick at this whole TSN Tradecentre show. Whata joke. 10 hours so much hype, huge panel of insiders for what. Odd trade here and there. Hilarious listening to these guys. Every year same crap. Actually people that watch this for 10 hours.

As usual, I have it on in the background of my office while I'm working. I don't think too many people are hanging on its every word on a Monday.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 03:02:33 PM
It's 3:01.  Do you know where your defenceman is?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 03:07:01 PM
Kypreos says he believes the Rangers got something through before the deadline.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: louisstamos on February 26, 2018, 03:08:17 PM
Kypreos says he believes the Rangers got something through before the deadline.

BMac says Tampa got him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 03:09:13 PM
Sorry, CtB :(
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 26, 2018, 03:09:50 PM
So the Leafs did nothing?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 03:11:58 PM
So the Leafs did nothing?

They increased the sales of Leaf turtlenecks by one.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Dappleganger on February 26, 2018, 03:12:05 PM
McDonagh doesn't scare me. I'm ok with the Leafs not getting him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 03:12:23 PM
So the Leafs did nothing?

They increased the sales of Leaf turtlenecks by one.

I want one.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: azzurri63 on February 26, 2018, 03:14:15 PM
A 1st, 2nd and a 3rd for Tatar. I don't mind JVR but what could we have gotten for him. I honestly think Kapenen can be a top 9 or even top 6 winger. What would he be able to put up on one of the top lines with the extra ice time and even a bit more PP time. I know it's tough because the Leafs are a top team and do you really want to make too many changes? I just don't think the Leafs are going to resign JVR so for me I would have like to dump him, move Kapenen up in the lineup and recoup something for him.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 03:15:01 PM
So the Leafs did nothing?

They increased the sales of Leaf turtlenecks by one.

I want one.

I was banking on that :-).  Plekanec got his for free.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: RedLeaf on February 26, 2018, 03:15:33 PM
I think T-Bay just secured themselves a stanley cup
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 26, 2018, 03:15:42 PM
So the Leafs did nothing?

They increased the sales of Leaf turtlenecks by one.
That's insignificant.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2018, 03:17:13 PM
A 1st, 2nd and a 3rd for Tatar. I don't mind JVR but what could we have gotten for him. I honestly think Kapenen can be a top 9 or even top 6 winger. What would he be able to put up on one of the top lines with the extra ice time and even a bit more PP time. I know it's tough because the Leafs are a top team and do you really want to make too many changes? I just don't think the Leafs are going to resign JVR so for me I would have like to dump him, move Kapenen up in the lineup and recoup something for him.
We could finish first in the league at this rate. JVR and his net presence will be a huge asset in this years playoff run. If we don't win it's a better education with JVR in the lineup then without.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 03:18:27 PM
So the Leafs did nothing?

They increased the sales of Leaf turtlenecks by one.
That's insignificant.

Significantly so though.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 03:18:57 PM
I was banking on that :-).  Plekanec got his for free.

Are you telling me you're his new supplier?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 03:20:40 PM
I was banking on that :-).  Plekanec got his for free.

Are you telling me you're his new supplier?

I never said I was a *good* business man.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 26, 2018, 03:26:42 PM

I just do not understand this day from the Leafs' perspective.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 26, 2018, 03:29:19 PM
I just do not understand this day from the Leafs' perspective.

I do, to an extent. They were never going to make moves to move out pending UFAs, and the prices on rental players were just silly.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 26, 2018, 03:30:52 PM
I do, to an extent. They were never going to make moves to move out pending UFAs, and the prices on rental players were just silly.

Well, right, but the latter is what makes the former so hard to understand.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 03:36:45 PM

I just do not understand this day from the Leafs' perspective.

I've had a lot of highs and lows in regards to how I feel about the Leafs management with Lou, and today is definitely back to a low.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: TML fan on February 26, 2018, 03:38:16 PM
Best guess is the Leafs didn't want to send the wrong message by weaking the team going into the playoffs. Some might see it as giving up on the season. It doesn't make much sense to me either, I'm just looking for any kind of justification for not doing anything.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 26, 2018, 03:41:08 PM

I just do not understand this day from the Leafs' perspective.

I've had a lot of highs and lows in regards to how I feel about the Leafs management with Lou, and today is definitely back to a low.

Yup, they acquire Plekanec and then sit on their hands while our direct rivals load up today.

If they're not adding D they should have been a big-time seller today.

This is bordering on being as bad as Benning in Vancouver.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bender on February 26, 2018, 03:42:50 PM

I just do not understand this day from the Leafs' perspective.

I've had a lot of highs and lows in regards to how I feel about the Leafs management with Lou, and today is definitely back to a low.

Yup, they acquire Plekanec and then sit on their hands while our direct rivals load up today.

If they're not adding D they should have been a big-time seller today.

This is bordering on being as bad as Benning in Vancouver.

That's a bit melodramatic.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 26, 2018, 03:43:37 PM

I just do not understand this day from the Leafs' perspective.

I've had a lot of highs and lows in regards to how I feel about the Leafs management with Lou, and today is definitely back to a low.

Yup, they acquire Plekanec and then sit on their hands while our direct rivals load up today.

If they're not adding D they should have been a big-time seller today.

This is bordering on being as bad as Benning in Vancouver.

That's a bit melodramatic.

Oh look, the water carriers have arrived.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2018, 03:44:10 PM
Best guess is the Leafs didn't want to send the wrong message by weaking the team going into the playoffs. Some might see it as giving up on the season. It doesn't make much sense to me either, I'm just looking for any kind of justification for not doing anything.
They got their C? It honestly sounds like people wanted Karlsson of McDonagh or they would be disappointed. Sure McDonagh would have been nice but we can't win them all. We are a strong team with lot's of depth with our draft picks intact. Yes, we still need help on the blue line but an upgrade wasn't available to us today.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 03:46:42 PM
Best guess is the Leafs didn't want to send the wrong message by weaking the team going into the playoffs. Some might see it as giving up on the season. It doesn't make much sense to me either, I'm just looking for any kind of justification for not doing anything.
They got their C? It honestly sounds like people wanted Karlsson of McDonagh or they would be disappointed. Sure McDonagh would have been nice but we can't win them all. We are a strong team with lot's of depth with our draft picks intact. Yes, we still need help on the blue line but an upgrade wasn't available to us today.

Technically the upgrade was available, it's just that the Leafs didn't want to pay the price for it.

I think what is bothersome is that it seems like the day was approached without a lack of direction.  They weren't trying to build for the future or trying to go for it now.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 03:46:47 PM

I just do not understand this day from the Leafs' perspective.

I've had a lot of highs and lows in regards to how I feel about the Leafs management with Lou, and today is definitely back to a low.

Yup, they acquire Plekanec and then sit on their hands while our direct rivals load up today.

If they're not adding D they should have been a big-time seller today.

This is bordering on being as bad as Benning in Vancouver.

That's a bit melodramatic.

Oh look, the water carriers have arrived.

To help wash down that salt.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 26, 2018, 03:47:00 PM
This is bordering on being as bad as Benning in Vancouver.

Seriously?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: TML fan on February 26, 2018, 03:49:30 PM
I was referring more to not trading JVR. I'm not too bent out of shape about not getting McDonagh. It's not like the Leafs couldn't have made a comparable offer, but maybe NYR liked Tampa's players better? Not trading JVR though, boggles my mind.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Chris on February 26, 2018, 03:49:44 PM
I'm actually kind of happy they didn't do anything. Well, it would have been nice to acquire a defenseman that would permanently push Polak out of the lineup (if that's even possible), but I wasn't too thrilled with the prices I was seeing for McDonagh or Karlsson. I'd rather keep the team together, see how they handle another playoff run, and then make some decisions.

It will kind of suck if we lose JVR for nothing or next to nothing but maybe the offers for him weren't as great as we all though they would be. Or, maybe there is an "agreement" that he signs for a discount during the summer. I think this team has shown they can compete with anyone, so if Andersen can keep his form into the playoffs...you never know!
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 03:53:44 PM
Technically the upgrade was available, it's just that the Leafs didn't want to pay the price for it.

I think what is bothersome is that it seems like the day was approached without a lack of direction.  They weren't trying to build for the future or trying to go for it now.

I'm pretty okay with it. Plekanec makes a pretty big difference without impeding the development of our actual core players. McDonagh or Karlsson definitely would've been huge gets, but the cost was over the line our front office wanted to bother with. At this stage of our team build, I prefer holding some hard lines on deadline spending.

Should they have sold to capitalize on the market for JvR? I think my stance on this is that they should've sold him two years ago, but now that he's still here, there's more value to the team to retain his services to give them the best go at the playoffs with what they have. Maybe we get a pick from someone who wants to talk to him a week earlier.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 26, 2018, 03:53:47 PM
This is bordering on being as bad as Benning in Vancouver.

Seriously?

Yes, Plekanec doesn't move the needle, the Leafs won't lay a punch on this Tampa team.

Either commit to buying or commit to selling.

The didn't do enough of either.

They got caught in an arms race and have been seriously surpassed by their direct competitors, as soon as that becomes the case they should have entered asset management phase and cashed in on expiring contracts.

I find it extremely hard to believe there wasn't a bottom pair upgrade at the very least.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2018, 03:54:01 PM
Best guess is the Leafs didn't want to send the wrong message by weaking the team going into the playoffs. Some might see it as giving up on the season. It doesn't make much sense to me either, I'm just looking for any kind of justification for not doing anything.
They got their C? It honestly sounds like people wanted Karlsson of McDonagh or they would be disappointed. Sure McDonagh would have been nice but we can't win them all. We are a strong team with lot's of depth with our draft picks intact. Yes, we still need help on the blue line but an upgrade wasn't available to us today.

Technically the upgrade was available, it's just that the Leafs didn't want to pay the price for it.

I think what is bothersome is that it seems like the day was approached without a lack of direction.  They weren't trying to build for the future or trying to go for it now.
We're 13-2 in the last 15. I am okay sticking with this group. Honestly outside McDonagh who would you of wanted?

I thought maybe Oduya on the waiver wire would of been a low risk gamble.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: RedLeaf on February 26, 2018, 03:55:34 PM
Best guess is the Leafs didn't want to send the wrong message by weaking the team going into the playoffs. Some might see it as giving up on the season. It doesn't make much sense to me either, I'm just looking for any kind of justification for not doing anything.
They got their C? It honestly sounds like people wanted Karlsson of McDonagh or they would be disappointed. Sure McDonagh would have been nice but we can't win them all. We are a strong team with lot's of depth with our draft picks intact. Yes, we still need help on the blue line but an upgrade wasn't available to us today.

I get that they're wasn't an upgrade available on D today, but it is very frustrating to watch them to continually add up front (with mostly aging players) and still not be able to address their biggest weakest. Surely a suitable defensemen has been within their reach at some point over the past few seasons.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 26, 2018, 03:57:59 PM
This is bordering on being as bad as Benning in Vancouver.

Seriously?

Yes, Plekanec doesn't move the needle, the Leafs won't lay a punch on this Tampa team.

Either commit to buying or commit to selling.

The didn't do enough of either.

They got caught in an arms race and have been seriously surpassed by their direct competitors, as soon as that becomes the case they should have entered asset management phase and cashed in on expiring contracts.

I find it extremely hard to believe there wasn't a bottom pair upgrade at the very least.

By every account, they were in on McDonagh and that LITERALLY went down to the wire... They were committed to going for it, but didn't beat Tampa's offer and had no time to adjust.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 03:58:35 PM
The Leafs front office likes their defense group more than we do.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: AvroArrow on February 26, 2018, 03:59:04 PM
A lack of action does not mean they did nothing.  That is the most common form of ignorance during trade, draft and UFA time.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bill_Berg on February 26, 2018, 03:59:17 PM
I don't think it's as easy to play trades of one another internally. Maybe they thought they would get McDonagh or Green when they traded for Plekanec, and Montreal said now or he's going to the Jets so they pulled the trigger. Then the Rangers wouldn't back down on Liljigren and Green said no to the Leafs. Would love to be a fly on the wall for one deadline.

I'm fine with what they did. They're a little better, they have a chance to improve on last year's result and they didn't give up much to do it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 03:59:56 PM
The Leafs front office likes their defense group more than we do.

They only have two top-4 defencemen.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 26, 2018, 04:00:13 PM
Best guess is the Leafs didn't want to send the wrong message by weaking the team going into the playoffs. Some might see it as giving up on the season. It doesn't make much sense to me either, I'm just looking for any kind of justification for not doing anything.
They got their C? It honestly sounds like people wanted Karlsson of McDonagh or they would be disappointed. Sure McDonagh would have been nice but we can't win them all. We are a strong team with lot's of depth with our draft picks intact. Yes, we still need help on the blue line but an upgrade wasn't available to us today.

Technically the upgrade was available, it's just that the Leafs didn't want to pay the price for it.

I think what is bothersome is that it seems like the day was approached without a lack of direction.  They weren't trying to build for the future or trying to go for it now.
We're 13-2 in the last 15. I am okay sticking with this group. Honestly outside McDonagh who would you of wanted?

I thought maybe Oduya on the waiver wire would of been a low risk gamble.

Honestly, I thought Tanev would have been more of a fit.  But yeah the injury thing is a bit of a concern. 

Maybe their stance is just a by-product of being in between that not really bad, but not quite the a surefire cup contender.

I think though if they lose Bozak, JVR, and Komarov to free agency and they have to run with the youngin's next year, it would have made sense to get something for them and run with them for the end of this year. 

I don't think the Leafs can beat Boston, Tampa and Pittsburgh this year.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2018, 04:02:11 PM
Best guess is the Leafs didn't want to send the wrong message by weaking the team going into the playoffs. Some might see it as giving up on the season. It doesn't make much sense to me either, I'm just looking for any kind of justification for not doing anything.
They got their C? It honestly sounds like people wanted Karlsson of McDonagh or they would be disappointed. Sure McDonagh would have been nice but we can't win them all. We are a strong team with lot's of depth with our draft picks intact. Yes, we still need help on the blue line but an upgrade wasn't available to us today.

I get that they're wasn't an upgrade available on D today, but it is very frustrating to watch them to continually add up front (with mostly aging players) and still not be able to address their biggest weakest. Surely a suitable defensemen has been within their reach at some point over the past few seasons.
Ask EDM how their search for an available D has gone?

Hopefully we can keep the band together long enough for Lilegren to grow into his hype and maybe that Ozhiganov guy signs and develops into a meaningful role. Doughty and Karlsson? Doubt it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 04:06:11 PM
The Leafs front office likes their defense group more than we do.

They only have two top-4 defencemen.

We've got two almost 1s, four 4/5s, and an 8.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2018, 04:08:09 PM
The Leafs front office likes their defense group more than we do.

They only have two top-4 defencemen.

We've got two almost 1s, four 4/5s, and an 8.
LOL, now that's an analysis of yours I actually understand.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: bustaheims on February 26, 2018, 04:09:39 PM
Well, right, but the latter is what makes the former so hard to understand.

Sure, from a pure asset management POV it doesn't make sense, but, from the perspective of thinking they have an outside shot at something? I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 04:10:23 PM
Well, at least we've got more cap space for Tavares on July 1st I guess.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Strangelove on February 26, 2018, 04:15:44 PM
The thing that bugs me most about not moving JVR, besides the fact that he's a one tool guy whose value may be at its peak, is that he may well be a liability in the playoffs. I still recall how abysmal he was defensively against Boston in the first round years back. There's little reason to think that would change this time around, and his puck-tipping skills are not enough to compensate.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 04:19:13 PM
The thing that bugs me most about not moving JVR, besides the fact that he's a one tool guy whose value may be at its peak, is that he may well be a liability in the playoffs. I still recall how abysmal he was defensively against Boston in the first round years back. There's little reason to think that would change this time around, and his puck-tipping skills are not enough to compensate.

With Komarov-Plekanec-x  as a secondary shutdown unit I wouldn't be surprised to see JVR-Bozak-x used more like a 4th line that'll get extra minutes when we're trailing by 2+ goals from here on out, or at least in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2018, 04:22:06 PM
The thing that bugs me most about not moving JVR, besides the fact that he's a one tool guy whose value may be at its peak, is that he may well be a liability in the playoffs. I still recall how abysmal he was defensively against Boston in the first round years back. There's little reason to think that would change this time around, and his puck-tipping skills are not enough to compensate.
We have enough depth to hopefully steer him away from all defensive responsibilities. He plays less then any other of our top 9 forwards. He is very much sheltered. I don't think he will necessarily walk. He has been cast in dream role here and I am sure he is aware.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 04:22:34 PM
The thing that bugs me most about not moving JVR, besides the fact that he's a one tool guy whose value may be at its peak, is that he may well be a liability in the playoffs. I still recall how abysmal he was defensively against Boston in the first round years back. There's little reason to think that would change this time around, and his puck-tipping skills are not enough to compensate.

If there was one tool to have though...

With Komarov-Plekanec-x  as a secondary shutdown unit I wouldn't be surprised to see JVR-Bozak-x used more like a 4th line that'll get extra minutes when we're trailing by 2+ goals from here on out, or at least in the playoffs.

This basically. In one move (Plekanec), they've isolated the liability to a single, still highly dangerous line. It's first-line offense with 4th line defense, in 4th line minutes + top-3 PP.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Strangelove on February 26, 2018, 04:23:40 PM
The thing that bugs me most about not moving JVR, besides the fact that he's a one tool guy whose value may be at its peak, is that he may well be a liability in the playoffs. I still recall how abysmal he was defensively against Boston in the first round years back. There's little reason to think that would change this time around, and his puck-tipping skills are not enough to compensate.

With Komarov-Plekanec-x  as a secondary shutdown unit I wouldn't be surprised to see JVR-Bozak-x used more like a 4th line that'll get extra minutes when we're trailing by 2+ goals from here on out, or at least in the playoffs.

I agree, though that doesn't excite me much either. Komarov is not the defensive stalwart he once was. Whether it's Komarov's line or Bozak's line, I foresee a lot of time spent in the Leafs' end when those guys are on the ice. But I guess I'll wait to see how much Plekanec can compensate for Leo's weaknesses.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 26, 2018, 04:24:02 PM

I just do not understand this day from the Leafs' perspective.

I've had a lot of highs and lows in regards to how I feel about the Leafs management with Lou, and today is definitely back to a low.

Yup, they acquire Plekanec and then sit on their hands while our direct rivals load up today.

If they're not adding D they should have been a big-time seller today.

This is bordering on being as bad as Benning in Vancouver.
I'll guess we'll see what happens in the playoffs.  Not every deadline deal works out. I wish the Leafs had unloaded JVR for prospects/picks but it didn't happen so I await and see what they do in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 26, 2018, 04:24:24 PM
I really think this is one year too early to start breaking the bank to go for it.

I too think they should have traded JVR -- that just didn't make sense.  But OTOH I really like our position going into the playoffs.  Absolutely no pressure, and we have enough skill to possibly thread the needle, or at least win a round or two.  Which I would take, this year.  It's progress.

Even if we lose in the 1st, it's not the end of our world.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 04:25:28 PM
I still think this team could take Boston in a 7-game series in the first round. After that though...
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2018, 04:32:37 PM
I still think this team could take Boston in a 7-game series in the first round. After that though...
One way to get through TB and BOS is to finish first have them play each other. Wouldn't have to play either until probably the conference final. The winner to TB vs BOS could even endup against PIT in the second round. Dream scenario.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 26, 2018, 04:34:31 PM
If it goes to game 7 against Tampa and JVR breaks McDonagh's ankle while driving to the net scoring the series winning goal I'll forgive the non move of not trading JVR
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 26, 2018, 04:36:53 PM
They only have two top-4 defencemen.

We've got two almost 1s, four 4/5s, and an 8.

Let's arbitrarily do a comparison with numbers I'm making up.

League Average D corps
1D: 8 out of 10
2D: 7
3D: 6
4D: 5
5D: 3
6D: 2
Extra: 1

For a total value of: 33

Rielly: 8.5
Gardiner: 8
Zaitsev: 4
Hainsey: 4
Dermott: 5
Carrick: 3.5
Polak: 2

Leafs: 35

Hurray, we're (slightly) above the arbitrary average I made up.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2018, 04:38:30 PM
If it goes to game 7 against Tampa and JVR breaks McDonagh's ankle while driving to the net scoring the series winning goal I'll forgive the non move of not trading JVR
Not sure why McDonagh needs to break his ankle in this scenario but okay...
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: louisstamos on February 26, 2018, 04:41:22 PM
If it goes to game 7 against Tampa and JVR breaks McDonagh's ankle while driving to the net scoring the series winning goal I'll forgive the non move of not trading JVR
Not sure why McDonagh needs to break his ankle in this scenario but okay...

(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/505/362/3f4.gif)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Dappleganger on February 26, 2018, 04:42:54 PM
If it goes to game 7 against Tampa and JVR breaks McDonagh's ankle while driving to the net scoring the series winning goal I'll forgive the non move of not trading JVR
Not sure why McDonagh needs to break his ankle in this scenario but okay...

"Breaks Ankle" - means he falls over trying to counter-act the opposing players move.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 26, 2018, 04:43:24 PM
If it goes to game 7 against Tampa and JVR breaks McDonagh's ankle while driving to the net scoring the series winning goal I'll forgive the non move of not trading JVR
Not sure why McDonagh needs to break his ankle in this scenario but okay...
I mean in hockey terms, JVR pulls a sick move and McDonagh falls down trying to cover him, not actually breaking his ankle. See Kapanen against Boston on Saturday for an example.


Check out @TheFlintors Tweet: ?s=09
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bill_Berg on February 26, 2018, 04:47:43 PM
Lou said they weren't interested in Green. Interesting.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-2018-live-blog-latest-rumours-analysis/
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 04:48:29 PM
Lou said they weren't interested in Green. Interesting.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-2018-live-blog-latest-rumours-analysis/

Green never really made much sense to me. I don't think Babcock would have liked him very much, and it still leaves the team short a penalty-killer (in Babs' eyes).
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 26, 2018, 04:49:11 PM
Lou said they weren't interested in Green. Interesting.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-2018-live-blog-latest-rumours-analysis/
Lou is as honest as the driven snow.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 26, 2018, 04:50:42 PM
Lou said they weren't interested in Green. Interesting.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-2018-live-blog-latest-rumours-analysis/
Lou is as honest as the driven snow.
Green has a neck injury so that scared lots of people away. I read somewhere that Green wouldn't come to TO anyway.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bill_Berg on February 26, 2018, 04:54:39 PM
Lou said they weren't interested in Green. Interesting.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-2018-live-blog-latest-rumours-analysis/

Green never really made much sense to me. I don't think Babcock would have liked him very much, and it still leaves the team short a penalty-killer (in Babs' eyes).

I was iffy on him, but they just keep playing Polak so...
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: cabber24 on February 26, 2018, 04:56:36 PM
Lou said they weren't interested in Green. Interesting.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/nhl-trade-deadline-2018-live-blog-latest-rumours-analysis/

Green never really made much sense to me. I don't think Babcock would have liked him very much, and it still leaves the team short a penalty-killer (in Babs' eyes).

I was iffy on him, but they just keep playing Polak so...
No interest in a Green type Dman. We need a defensive minded minute cruncher.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 26, 2018, 04:59:27 PM
I am Ok with everything, getting Plekanec is a great move.
Lets remember the Leafs said they won't trade away their future for a quick fix now. They have lived up to this promise.  We are basically in Year 2 of the 5 year rebuild and have a chance to make it to round 2 of the playoffs and then hot goaltending and some good play by our amazing younguns and our older guys, means anything can happen.
My main concern is getting Matthews healthy as soon as possible.

Glad we didn't trade Johnsson or any of the other Marlies today
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 26, 2018, 05:01:55 PM
Like they say...some of the best trades are the ones you don't make. Let's hope
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 26, 2018, 05:06:09 PM
So, now that this is over, and to provide you all with my very valuable opinion, I think the Plekanec deal is stupid.

They didn't deal with the UFAs on the roster.  Fine.  They wanted to retain them for a run, then fine.  So they get themselves a fourth line centre, and spend a high draft pick to get him...and I'm fine with that too, as long as they address their biggest problem:  defense.

They did nothing to address their biggest hole, but they spent a high pick for an 8-minute guy for 3 months of service?

This just doesn't make good sense.

To me, you acquire a Plekanec after you've addressed your more pressing issue, and only if you've got some currency left over after dealing with your biggest problem.

But they bought the snowmobile before the furnace.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 26, 2018, 05:09:36 PM
So, now that this is over, and to provide you all with my very valuable opinion, I think the Plekanec deal is stupid.

I liked the Plekanec trade by itself, but in a couple months it will probably seem silly that we've thrown away 2nd rounders two years in a row on 4C's when we really never stood a chance to win the Cup.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 26, 2018, 05:10:40 PM
So, now that this is over, and to provide you all with my very valuable opinion, I think the Plekanec deal is stupid.

They didn't deal with the UFAs on the roster.  Fine.  They wanted to retain them for a run, then fine.  So they get themselves a fourth line centre, and spend a high draft pick to get him...and I'm fine with that too, as long as they address their biggest problem:  defense.

They did nothing to address their biggest hole, but they spent a high pick for an 8-minute guy for 3 months of service?

This just doesn't make good sense.

To me, you acquire a Plekanec after you've addressed your more pressing issue, and only if you've got some currency left over after dealing with your biggest problem.

But they bought the snowmobile before the furnace.

I love you.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 26, 2018, 05:12:22 PM
So, now that this is over, and to provide you all with my very valuable opinion, I think the Plekanec deal is stupid.

They didn't deal with the UFAs on the roster.  Fine.  They wanted to retain them for a run, then fine.  So they get themselves a fourth line centre, and spend a high draft pick to get him...and I'm fine with that too, as long as they address their biggest problem:  defense.

They did nothing to address their biggest hole, but they spent a high pick for an 8-minute guy for 3 months of service?

This just doesn't make good sense.

To me, you acquire a Plekanec after you've addressed your more pressing issue, and only if you've got some currency left over after dealing with your biggest problem.

But they bought the snowmobile before the furnace.

I love you.
Daily affirmation like this is a good thing in the world. I love all you guys
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 26, 2018, 05:13:11 PM
So, now that this is over, and to provide you all with my very valuable opinion, I think the Plekanec deal is stupid.

I liked the Plekanec trade by itself, but in a couple months it will probably seem silly that we've thrown away 2nd rounders two years in a row on 4C's when we really never stood a chance to win the Cup.

Well, yeah.  In for a dime, in for a dollar as the saying goes.  Not in for a dime, and then let's throw the dime in the toilet 8 weeks later.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 26, 2018, 05:17:09 PM
they still have a 2nd round pick and we didn't get Glendenning from Detroit.  Maybe just maybe the chemistry will be right this year. Perhaps we will surprise.  Hope springs eternal in Loafland.
On a real good pro message, Kapi will be on the wing with Willie, Marner will stay with Kadri and  Keptain Komi will be anchored to his new Plank. This is good news
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Captain Canuck on February 26, 2018, 05:22:30 PM
I'm not going to lie, I'm a bit disappointed they didn't get a d-man.

Like others have said why trade for Plekanec, keep all your UFAs and then just stand pat on the blueline? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Reminds me of the 2002 deadline, Leafs had a solid team, only a piece or two away IMO, and what do they do....trade for a washed up Tom Barrasso! Talk about disappointment!

At the same time I realize it's not quite the Leafs time yet, but getting really mixed signals from Leafs management with the moves that were and were not made the last 48 hours.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 26, 2018, 05:37:35 PM
I'm not going to lie, I'm a bit disappointed they didn't get a d-man.

Like others have said why trade for Plekanec, keep all your UFAs and then just stand pat on the blueline? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Reminds me of the 2002 deadline, Leafs had a solid team, only a piece or two away IMO, and what do they do....trade for a washed up Tom Barrasso! Talk about disappointment!

At the same time I realize it's not quite the Leafs time yet, but getting really mixed signals from Leafs management with the moves that were and were not made the last 48 hours.
Why? They had a weakness at the 4c position, they addressed it. They tried to get McDonagh but couldn't match.  Trading away a 25 goal scorer from your team that could potentially do well in the playoffs sends the wrong message to the team, so to trade him for picks, prospects won't work. If they could have done JVR for a McDonagh in a round about way, that would fly.
Ask Brayden Schenn how he feels about trading Stastny away. Like Jeff O'Neill says..Winnipeg feels like management believes they can win it all by the trade, St Louis feels like management is giving up on the year.
I wanted JVR gone to but that's the way it goes. I think the Plekanec trade will be good for the Leafs. We essentially have 2 3rd lines now and 2 firsts. The team is better then it was last game.
Time will tell.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 26, 2018, 05:40:19 PM
So, now that this is over, and to provide you all with my very valuable opinion, I think the Plekanec deal is stupid.

They didn't deal with the UFAs on the roster.  Fine.  They wanted to retain them for a run, then fine.  So they get themselves a fourth line centre, and spend a high draft pick to get him...and I'm fine with that too, as long as they address their biggest problem:  defense.

They did nothing to address their biggest hole, but they spent a high pick for an 8-minute guy for 3 months of service?

This just doesn't make good sense.

To me, you acquire a Plekanec after you've addressed your more pressing issue, and only if you've got some currency left over after dealing with your biggest problem.

But they bought the snowmobile before the furnace.

I love you.

That was for you...I'm glad you caught it.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 26, 2018, 05:41:20 PM
I'm not going to lie, I'm a bit disappointed they didn't get a d-man.

Like others have said why trade for Plekanec, keep all your UFAs and then just stand pat on the blueline? It doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Reminds me of the 2002 deadline, Leafs had a solid team, only a piece or two away IMO, and what do they do....trade for a washed up Tom Barrasso! Talk about disappointment!

At the same time I realize it's not quite the Leafs time yet, but getting really mixed signals from Leafs management with the moves that were and were not made the last 48 hours.
Why? They had a weakness at the 4c position, they addressed it. They tried to get McDonagh but couldn't match.  Trading away a 25 goal scorer from your team that could potentially do well in the playoffs sends the wrong message to the team, so to trade him for picks, prospects won't work. If they could have done JVR for a McDonagh in a round about way, that would fly.
Ask Brayden Schenn how he feels about trading Stastny away. Like Jeff O'Neill says..Winnipeg feels like management believes they can win it all by the trade, St Louis feels like management is giving up on the year.
I wanted JVR gone to but that's the way it goes. I think the Plekanec trade will be good for the Leafs. We essentially have 2 3rd lines now and 2 firsts. The team is better then it was last game.
Time will tell.
We are on the same page G.T. and we all have to stop whining about things that didn't happen, and back what has become a very good Leaf squad. Lets see where they take us.  Make it an adventure.

And lets keep developing the Johnssons, Bracco's, Timashovs and Lilypads and keep drafting smart.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 26, 2018, 05:41:55 PM
The thing that bugs me most about not moving JVR, besides the fact that he's a one tool guy whose value may be at its peak, is that he may well be a liability in the playoffs. I still recall how abysmal he was defensively against Boston in the first round years back. There's little reason to think that would change this time around, and his puck-tipping skills are not enough to compensate.

If there was one tool to have though...

With Komarov-Plekanec-x  as a secondary shutdown unit I wouldn't be surprised to see JVR-Bozak-x used more like a 4th line that'll get extra minutes when we're trailing by 2+ goals from here on out, or at least in the playoffs.

This basically. In one move (Plekanec), they've isolated the liability to a single, still highly dangerous line. It's first-line offense with 4th line defense, in 4th line minutes + top-3 PP.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Plekanec line take more minutes at 5v5 in tied or leading games. JVR will continue to see lower 5v5 mins... and the biggest change I want to see is using JVR on BOTH PP units.  Hes unbelievable in front and nobody else can come close.  Hes not going to tire out with the low 5v5 mins hes getting.

JVR
Bozak-Kadri-Marner
Rielly

JVR
Nylander-Marleau-Matthews
Gardiner

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: RedLeaf on February 26, 2018, 05:42:34 PM
Im wondering if a big loss tonight ignites even more fans about todays non-events .
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 26, 2018, 05:47:23 PM
Again its time to stop our whining, lets back this club, hell they have beaten some very good teams on a 14-3 run (or very close to this) with the lineup without this latest upgrade.  Perhaps the Mechanic can service us to a win or two in the playoff, then the last week would have been a great success.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 26, 2018, 05:48:50 PM
So, now that this is over, and to provide you all with my very valuable opinion, I think the Plekanec deal is stupid.

I liked the Plekanec trade by itself, but in a couple months it will probably seem silly that we've thrown away 2nd rounders two years in a row on 4C's when we really never stood a chance to win the Cup.

...which is why I think it's stupid.  And given our current crop of 2016 draft picks, I'm not too pumped about the pipeline. 

They're going to have to go out and buy 2 permanent'ish centres this summer, no?  Unless we still think Nylander is going to end up there?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 26, 2018, 05:52:58 PM
So, now that this is over, and to provide you all with my very valuable opinion, I think the Plekanec deal is stupid.

I liked the Plekanec trade by itself, but in a couple months it will probably seem silly that we've thrown away 2nd rounders two years in a row on 4C's when we really never stood a chance to win the Cup.

...which is why I think it's stupid.  And given our current crop of 2016 draft picks, I'm not too pumped about the pipeline. 

They're going to have to go out and buy 2 permanent'ish centres this summer, no?  Unless we still think Nylander is going to end up there?

I think keeping Nylander there through this stretch (especially on the road) is testing the waters on having him be a full time center next year.  Considering we have Marner, Kapanen, and Brown on the right side as well Id rather have Nylander play center anyways so none of those guys have to play on the 4th line next year.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 26, 2018, 05:54:15 PM
Again its time to stop our whining, lets back this club, hell they have beaten some very good teams on a 14-3 run (or very close to this) with the lineup without this latest upgrade.  Perhaps the Mechanic can service us to a win or two in the playoff, then the last week would have been a great success.
I hope they can go on a 14-3 run in the playoffs. :)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 26, 2018, 05:57:06 PM
So, now that this is over, and to provide you all with my very valuable opinion, I think the Plekanec deal is stupid.

I liked the Plekanec trade by itself, but in a couple months it will probably seem silly that we've thrown away 2nd rounders two years in a row on 4C's when we really never stood a chance to win the Cup.

...which is why I think it's stupid.  And given our current crop of 2016 draft picks, I'm not too pumped about the pipeline. 

They're going to have to go out and buy 2 permanent'ish centres this summer, no?  Unless we still think Nylander is going to end up there?
If Willie can play Centre like last game then he will be slotted there next year, he has enough time to prove himself with Auston out, we have enough wingers in the pipeline to fill 2 or 3 positions almost immediately to fly by his side.
If the Mechanic plays well perhaps we rent him for one more year.
The fact of the matter is they lost next to nothing when previous Leaf managements would have sold the farm for what. We are keeping our cards in our hands. Let's play them wisely
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 26, 2018, 05:58:45 PM

They're going to have to go out and buy 2 permanent'ish centres this summer, no?  Unless we still think Nylander is going to end up there?
Babs said if Willie is good at centre, he's staying there...I think it was Seigel who posted that.

Im wondering if a big loss tonight ignites even more fans about todays non-events .
With borderline fans, yes. The Leafs, like any team could play a stinker at any time. Witness a few weeks ago in Boston. We have a really good team here that is still learning their way. Patience is still the right course of action.
And I like Coco-Puffs suggestion of using JVR as a PP specialist and cutting down his 5v5
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 26, 2018, 06:05:51 PM

They're going to have to go out and buy 2 permanent'ish centres this summer, no?  Unless we still think Nylander is going to end up there?
Babs said if Willie is good at centre, he's staying there...I think it was Seigel who posted that.

Im wondering if a big loss tonight ignites even more fans about todays non-events .
With borderline fans, yes. The Leafs, like any team could play a stinker at any time. Witness a few weeks ago in Boston. We have a really good team here that is still learning their way. Patience is still the right course of action.
And I like Coco-Puffs suggestion of using JVR as a PP specialist and cutting down his 5v5

Well, thanks for the pep talk.

In reality, with this defense, they better plan on another Vezina like season from Andersen next year if they think they've got a shot at winning a Cup...and if they were really being patient, they wouldn't have bothered to spend a 2nd round pick to our rival team (we all know we're going to watch that pick's development for the next 5 years) for a rental 4th line centre.

It's ridiculous what they did with this deadline.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 26, 2018, 06:11:21 PM
Have to highly disagree with you Frank. Babcock said the glaring weakness on the team was a 4C. Yes we have defensive issues to deal with but great defensemen do not grow on trees and they teams that have them can demand insane amounts that a team like Tampa just paid for a non Karlson player.
We have developed Dermott, Holl looked very good in his two games and we have Lilypad ready to go to launching pad, time to trust the Force Frank.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on February 26, 2018, 06:33:23 PM
Have to highly disagree with you Frank. Babcock said the glaring weakness on the team was a 4C. Yes we have defensive issues to deal with but great defensemen do not grow on trees and they teams that have them can demand insane amounts that a team like Tampa just paid for a non Karlson player.
We have developed Dermott, Holl looked very good in his two games and we have Lilypad ready to go to launching pad, time to trust the Force Frank.

Highlander, you're an optimistic guy, and bless you for that.  But if Babcock said that the team was only a 4C weak, then he's just plain delusional.  That, or he's just lying.

We all know where the real weakness is, and they simply didn't address it this year, and they don't have internal options to address it.  They've wasted a Vezina caliber season of goaltending, and a 2nd round pick, on a hope and a prayer. 

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 26, 2018, 06:45:15 PM
Well, right, but the latter is what makes the former so hard to understand.

Sure, from a pure asset management POV it doesn't make sense, but, from the perspective of thinking they have an outside shot at something? I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it.


But if you think you have an outside chance and that means something to them why not turn their expiring contracts into assets they could then use to bolster that outside chance and that can't walk in the summer.

Just seems like more of the same Polak/Sosh/Komarov inability to read and adapt. This team, that used to feel cutting edge and aggressive, now seems either meek or delusional.

Honestly if this team sort of stalls out as NYR sorts of also-rans I think we'll look back on today as a big reason why.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 26, 2018, 07:18:53 PM
Well, right, but the latter is what makes the former so hard to understand.

Sure, from a pure asset management POV it doesn't make sense, but, from the perspective of thinking they have an outside shot at something? I get it. I don't agree with it, but I get it.


But if you think you have an outside chance and that means something to them why not turn their expiring contracts into assets they could then use to bolster that outside chance and that can't walk in the summer.

Just seems like more of the same Polak/Sosh/Komarov inability to read and adapt. This team, that used to feel cutting edge and aggressive, now seems either meek or delusional.

Honestly if this team sort of stalls out as NYR sorts of also-rans I think we'll look back on today as a big reason why.

Now you are making me feel ill.

It seems like a long time ago that Dubas was new and seemed on the fast-track to become a dynamic, next-age GM.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 26, 2018, 07:33:18 PM
Have to highly disagree with you Frank. Babcock said the glaring weakness on the team was a 4C. Yes we have defensive issues to deal with but great defensemen do not grow on trees and they teams that have them can demand insane amounts that a team like Tampa just paid for a non Karlson player.
We have developed Dermott, Holl looked very good in his two games and we have Lilypad ready to go to launching pad, time to trust the Force Frank.

Highlander, you're an optimistic guy, and bless you for that.  But if Babcock said that the team was only a 4C weak, then he's just plain delusional.  That, or he's just lying.

We all know where the real weakness is, and they simply didn't address it this year, and they don't have internal options to address it.  They've wasted a Vezina caliber season of goaltending, and a 2nd round pick, on a hope and a prayer.

I never said that Frank, yes they were aware of D issues but were not ready to sell the farm for a Superstud or a semi one.  The demands that are asked can drain a teams prospect pool. Whats our rush? lets draft and develop two more D this year.  Lets only draft D this year if thats what needs to be done. Oh ya and one good C
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: TML fan on February 26, 2018, 11:59:05 PM
The Leafs are a long shot to get out of the first round. Personally, by not trading JVR, I think the Leafs got worse. Now you have 3 relatively important players who can walk in the summer, and fewer future assets than what you started with.

I get that maybe you don't want to give up on the season which would be the optics of trading JVR, but at the same time if the core players can't see the bigger picture, then the Leafs have worse problems than just not having assets to show for pending UFAs.

I feel that the Leafs have drifted slightly off course here and it worries me.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 27, 2018, 12:08:59 AM
The Leafs are a long shot to get out of the first round. Personally, by not trading JVR, I think the Leafs got worse. Now you have 3 relatively important players who can walk in the summer, and fewer future assets than what you started with.

I get that maybe you don't want to give up on the season which would be the optics of trading JVR, but at the same time if the core players can't see the bigger picture, then the Leafs have worse problems than just not having assets to show for pending UFAs.

I feel that the Leafs have drifted slightly off course here and it worries me.

Hard to disagree with this.  But at least they didn't deal any of their high-end prospects.

For me, now that they've made their choices, I will look forward to the playoffs as a time for them to try to learn how to win in those kind of games w/o having any real expectations.  If Andersen stays hot, they could upset at least one team.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: A Finnish leaf fan on February 27, 2018, 06:52:32 AM
While I'm slightly upset the Leafs did next to nothing, I can understand why the management chose this path. Their recent run has put them back into contention for home ice for the first round (Tampa is probably out of reach now that they added McD but the Bruins will be losing a lot of points due to their heavy schedule to close the regular season). Thus, selling the pending key UFA's was not really an option due to the signal it would have given to the young players on the team (see Brayden Schenn's comments  (https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/1491096-blues-schenn-no-fan-of-crazy-stastny-trade) to the Blues trading Stastny, also a pending UFA, away and get my point). I'm sure the Leafs would have liked to add help on defense but the asking price was just too high with a lot of other teams having the same need. As it has been pointed out, the Leafs are not yet a Cup contender so spending a boatload of prospects and/or picks to improve was not an option. Adding a defensively sound middle-/bottom-pairing D to replace Polak would have been nice but that kind of players just were not available this time, at least not for a reasonable price.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Boston Leaf on February 27, 2018, 07:26:38 AM
you got to give something to get something.. At least we are not whining about losing any of our future prospects or Kapanen or Dermott etc.

As far as the 3 UFA's go who knows maybe they will somehow bring JVR back.. I could care less right now if Komarov walks but of the three he is most likely to be resigned for a year or two.

I have total trust in the crew (Lou, Shanny, Hunter, Dubas etc) they have done the right thing during this journey and I am sure know what they are doing.. They do no knee jerk reactions and figure they have discussed every scenario in total detail
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Andy on February 27, 2018, 07:28:30 AM
I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here but are the Leafs really a doomed organization because they didn't want to part with a couple of firsts, Kapanen and the 2nd best D prospect after Liljegren? Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh who, while certainly fitting an area of concern, would either be gone or need to be retained with a mighty hefty cap hit after next year.

And I was on the record for being a proponent for moving JVR for a boatload and using those pieces to pick up McDonagh. I just understand why it wasn't, or couldn't be, done. I'm a huge Kapanen fan and while Johnsson looks pretty great in the AHL he hasn't played a single NHL game. The subtraction of JVR and Kapanen for this year's playoff run leaves some pretty big holes that can't be immediately filled. And simply trading the UFA's for futures doesn't make a whole lot of sense for a playoff team that is top 5 or 6 overall. This probaly isn't exactly how I would have played things out but I really can't see how this deadline day was "ridiculous" or a potential catalyst for the franchise "stalling out."
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 08:50:45 AM
I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here but are the Leafs really a doomed organization because they didn't want to part with a couple of firsts, Kapanen and the 2nd best D prospect after Liljegren?  Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh

I don't see where you get that. What Tampa traded was far more along the lines of Brown, Johnsson, Korshkov, a 1st and a conditional 1st than what you mention. Even if you want to say Namestnikov is more akin to Kapanen than Brown(despite being 4 years older than Kapanen and never scoring 40 points unitl this year) then even still that was the cost for McDonagh and Miller.

Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh who, while certainly fitting an area of concern, would either be gone or need to be retained with a mighty hefty cap hit after next year.

The Leafs are going to have to try to add to their blue line at some point and, yes, that means spending real money on a defenseman probably. McDonagh, who doesn't have the eyepopping offensive numbers that inflate contracts, could either be re-signed at a reasonable rate for a top pairing guy or he could also be flipped if the Leafs are on an endless search for a top pairing guy they don't have to pay real money to.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 09:17:26 AM

Seriously, they've been running the team for two years now and lots of good trades have been made around the league. What really good acquisitions have the Leafs made in these past two years? Marleau, Hainsey, Polak...?

I think we're sort of running out of time to praise how great they are for managing to win the Lottery.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Andy on February 27, 2018, 09:17:47 AM
I don't know, maybe I'm missing something here but are the Leafs really a doomed organization because they didn't want to part with a couple of firsts, Kapanen and the 2nd best D prospect after Liljegren?  Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh

I don't see where you get that. What Tampa traded was far more along the lines of Brown, Johnsson, Korshkov, a 1st and a conditional 1st than what you mention. Even if you want to say Namestnikov is more akin to Kapanen than Brown(despite being 4 years older than Kapanen and never scoring 40 points unitl this year) then even still that was the cost for McDonagh and Miller.

Because that's essentially what it would have cost to acquire McDonagh who, while certainly fitting an area of concern, would either be gone or need to be retained with a mighty hefty cap hit after next year.

The Leafs are going to have to try to add to their blue line at some point and, yes, that means spending real money on a defenseman probably. McDonagh, who doesn't have the eyepopping offensive numbers that inflate contracts, could either be re-signed at a reasonable rate for a top pairing guy or he could also be flipped if the Leafs are on an endless search for a top pairing guy they don't have to pay real money to.

You know, for some reason I thought Namestnikov was a fair bit younger than 25. I picked him up in my fantasy league earlier this year and thought this was his first full season. So yea, I guess I was missing something here  :-X

As for McDonagh, well, he signed this deal at 23 so I think that's more of a factor of his relatively cheap cap-hit as opposed to the lack of eye-popping statistics. I think he'll fetch a pretty penny as an FA.

I think I'd rather that cap hit be available for a similar (or better) defenseman who can play the right side. Granted that's a tough pursuit and the deal you proposed for McDonagh is quite more palatable to me (if NY was inclined to accept that and keep Miller, that is) but I still can't say that not getting McDonagh is some kind of calamity. Leafs are still in a good position imo. We just need somebody to break Polak's knee so he never sees the Leafs blueline again.


Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Andy on February 27, 2018, 09:20:57 AM

Seriously, they've been running the team for two years now and lots of good trades have been made around the league. What really good acquisitions have the Leafs made in these past two years? Marleau, Hainsey, Polak...?

I think we're sort of running out of time to praise how great they are for managing to win the Lottery.

Paging Frederik Andersen... ;) 
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 09:25:11 AM
As for McDonagh, well, he signed this deal at 23 so I think that's more of a factor of his relatively cheap cap-hit as opposed to the lack of eye-popping statistics. I think he'll fetch a pretty penny as an FA.

I think I'd rather that cap hit be available for a similar (or better) defenseman who can play the right side. Granted that's a tough pursuit and the deal you proposed for McDonagh is quite more palatable to me (if NY was inclined to accept that and keep Miller, that is) but I still can't say that not getting McDonagh is some kind of calamity. Leafs are still in a good position imo. We just need somebody to break Polak's knee so he never sees the Leafs blueline again.

I don't think making, or not making, any one move is disastrous. I do think that somehow coming out of yesterday without improving their chances in the mid/long-term(despite moves being available to do so) and not improving their assets is emblematic of a management team that seems to be coasting or, and I think this is the most charitable read, sitting on their thumbs until the absolute perfect situation comes across their path.

Because if they're waiting for a top pairing D to fall out of the sky who doesn't need to get paid a hefty chunk of money and doesn't cost a metric ton in terms of asset cost and fits in ideally to their LD/RD depth chart then they're going to be waiting a very long time.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 09:28:21 AM
Paging Frederik Andersen... ;)

I more meant in the time since last season started and definitely within the last year once it's become clear that the guys they more or less inherited/fell into have things ahead of schedule. Fair point that Andersen is a big part of that but even that's running a little thin to be hanging a hat on.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 27, 2018, 09:28:50 AM
https://theathletic.com/254686/2018/02/27/mirtle-why-the-leafs-missed-out-on-ryan-mcdonagh-and-other-trade-deadline-thoughts/

Basically, their hard line expanded beyond the obvious three to encompass Liljegren and Dermott.
Lou:
Quote
There's no question the development of Dermott has played a role in a lot of our thought process, Lamoriello said, before later adding on a radio appearance, When he did come in and get an opportunity, I mean, he made an immediate impact. That was the thought process when we were looking at maybe seeing if we should and could make us better in that area. Right now we feel very good about our defence.

Transcription of Lou's presser at 4pm yesterday:
https://www.mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/02/26/lou-lamoriello-addresses-media-deadline-feel-good-way-club-come-along-improvement-young-players/
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 27, 2018, 09:35:32 AM
Reading Corey Pronman's review of prospects traded yesterday, it sure sounds like both the guys New York got from Tampa are mid-level prospects. It's very difficult for me to believe that we couldn't have beaten that offer without giving up Kapanen/Dermott/Liljegren.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Andy on February 27, 2018, 09:39:13 AM
As for McDonagh, well, he signed this deal at 23 so I think that's more of a factor of his relatively cheap cap-hit as opposed to the lack of eye-popping statistics. I think he'll fetch a pretty penny as an FA.

I think I'd rather that cap hit be available for a similar (or better) defenseman who can play the right side. Granted that's a tough pursuit and the deal you proposed for McDonagh is quite more palatable to me (if NY was inclined to accept that and keep Miller, that is) but I still can't say that not getting McDonagh is some kind of calamity. Leafs are still in a good position imo. We just need somebody to break Polak's knee so he never sees the Leafs blueline again.

I don't think making, or not making, any one move is disastrous. I do think that somehow coming out of yesterday without improving their chances in the mid/long-term(despite moves being available to do so) and not improving their assets is emblematic of a management team that seems to be coasting or, and I think this is the most charitable read, sitting on their thumbs until the absolute perfect situation comes across their path.

Because if they're waiting for a top pairing D to fall out of the sky who doesn't need to get paid a hefty chunk of money and doesn't cost a metric ton in terms of asset cost and fits in ideally to their LD/RD depth chart then they're going to be waiting a very long time.

You know, I really I can't argue with anything you've said. As I mentioned, I was in the "JVR for futures and futures + for McDonagh" camp.  I'm just not really sure standing pat yesterday is a make-it or break-it situation. Now if we go into next season's playoffs and Hainsey is still on the top pairing and Polak (or someone thereof) is sniffing around the starting lineup then I might start to get worried..
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 09:40:16 AM
Reading Corey Pronman's review of prospects traded yesterday, it sure sounds like both the guys New York got from Tampa are mid-level prospects. It's very difficult for me to believe that we couldn't have beaten that offer without giving up Kapanen/Dermott/Liljegren.

I think they almost certainly could have if anyone outside of the Maple Leafs front office knew who Yegor Korshkov was.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 27, 2018, 09:44:34 AM
Reading Corey Pronman's review of prospects traded yesterday, it sure sounds like both the guys New York got from Tampa are mid-level prospects. It's very difficult for me to believe that we couldn't have beaten that offer without giving up Kapanen/Dermott/Liljegren.

I think they almost certainly could have if anyone outside of the Maple Leafs front office knew who Yegor Korshkov was.

I wonder if there is something to that.  Yesterday, when I was responding to CtB's post, I was trying to articulate how Brett Howden could be viewed as a better prospect than Korshkov.  It just feels like Howden is more well known, and therefore seems to have more value. 
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 27, 2018, 09:44:47 AM
I think they almost certainly could have if anyone outside of the Maple Leafs front office knew who Yegor Korshkov was.

You mean if they drafted Jordan Kyrou or Alex DeBrincat or Jonathan Dahlen or Janne Kuokkanen or Samuel Girard or Carter Hart or Kale Clague or Filip Gustavsson or Dillon Dube instead?

Maybe. Hindsight is 20/20 though.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 27, 2018, 09:45:03 AM
Reading Corey Pronman's review of prospects traded yesterday, it sure sounds like both the guys New York got from Tampa are mid-level prospects. It's very difficult for me to believe that we couldn't have beaten that offer without giving up Kapanen/Dermott/Liljegren.

I think they almost certainly could have if anyone outside of the Maple Leafs front office knew who Yegor Korshkov was.

That's the double-edged sword of panning for gold so far off the beaten path.
Triple cliche score, right there.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 09:48:48 AM
That's the double-edged sword of panning for gold so far off the beaten path.

You know who used to pan for gold? People who couldn't afford mining equipment.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 27, 2018, 09:54:27 AM
That's the double-edged sword of panning for gold so far off the beaten path.

You know who used to pan for gold? People who couldn't afford mining equipment.

Also people who didn't want to draw that much attention to a potential vein.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 09:59:11 AM
That's the double-edged sword of panning for gold so far off the beaten path.

You know who used to pan for gold? People who couldn't afford mining equipment.

Also people who didn't want to draw that much attention to a potential vein.

Well, no, because if it was a legitimate claim you could work the land however you wanted. Primarily panning was done to prove the worth of a claim before selling it to someone who'd work it properly and by wildcatting prospectors just looking to sell what they found.

There's a chance I watched too much of Ken Burns' The West.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 27, 2018, 10:01:26 AM
Well, no, because if it was a legitimate claim you could work the land however you wanted. Primarily panning was done to prove the worth of a claim before selling it to someone who'd work it properly and by wildcatting prospectors just looking to sell what they found.

There's a chance I watched too much of Ken Burns' The West.

This is what I got from watching Deadwood too.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 27, 2018, 10:10:59 AM
I only learn about the power of friendship, teamwork, and believing in yourself from tv.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 27, 2018, 10:14:27 AM
I only learn about the power of friendship, teamwork, and believing in yourself from tv.
For me comic books! ;)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: nutman on February 27, 2018, 10:56:08 AM
I am so glad we did not spend the farm for a quick fix. I like the defense we have coming up from our farm system.  Our goalie and forwards will get us to the second round this year and that was the plan, so I for one am good with this.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 10:59:15 AM
You mean if they drafted Jordan Kyrou or Alex DeBrincat or Jonathan Dahlen or Janne Kuokkanen or Samuel Girard or Carter Hart or Kale Clague or Filip Gustavsson or Dillon Dube instead?

Hey man, anyone can make the "smart" decision. Sometimes you want to really explore the studio with your decision making process. Get weird with it. What if an office is also a submarine?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 27, 2018, 11:00:16 AM
I only learn about the power of friendship, teamwork, and believing in yourself from tv.
For me comic books! ;)

I've also gained unreasonable expectations of forensic science and zoom/enhance technology available to videos.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 27, 2018, 11:03:29 AM
You guys are hurting my brain with all your wild, scary thoughts.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on February 27, 2018, 02:33:50 PM
I'm sort of glad the Leafs stood pat yesterday as I didn't want to ship out young guys like Kapanen, Dermott or Liljegren as some of the bigger rumors were throwing out there.   I want to see how Kapanen and Dermott especially do down the stretch and into the playoffs.  Why ship out a package of your own talent for a "big name" and then see that package of players flourish into real good players?  Hopefully this team continues to grow together in the right direction.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Bullfrog on February 27, 2018, 02:46:12 PM
I saw it as a two-step process:

1. Sell some UFAs for futures (picks and/or prospects.)
2. Buy some quality talent.

With step one, I would have been glad to move even one of the upcoming UFAs. JvR would obviously net the best return, but even Bozak should have gotten a 2nd rounder and a mid-level prospect.

Step two didn't even have to happen for me to be satisfied. But it would have been a bonus, particularly if they moved two or more of the UFAs.

I'm bummed out neither happened. And, honestly, I'm bummed that we didn't get McDonagh, even though I knew chances weren't great. He's the exact type of player I think the team needs. I don't think this team really needs a Karlsson or Doughty calibre player, but he would have been a huge upgrade.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 02:46:40 PM
I'm sort of glad the Leafs stood pat yesterday as I didn't want to ship out young guys like Kapanen, Dermott or Liljegren as some of the bigger rumors were throwing out there.

These things are never binary. There were all manners of approaches the Leafs could have taken. Presenting it as "I'm glad the Leafs didn't make a trade as opposed to trading Auston Matthews for a bag of used dishrags" seems to really just be fighting strawmen.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 27, 2018, 02:47:45 PM
I'm sort of glad the Leafs stood pat yesterday as I didn't want to ship out young guys like Kapanen, Dermott or Liljegren as some of the bigger rumors were throwing out there.

I mean this has been said before but it really doesn't feel like the guy most of us are bummed we didn't get would have required any of those pieces.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 02:50:32 PM

I can only speak for myself but I never once heard Liljegren or Dermott mentioned in anything close to a credible rumour. Some people mentioned them as potential pieces for a Karlsson deal but that was never happening.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 27, 2018, 02:53:29 PM
Lou:
Quote
There's no question the development of Dermott has played a role in a lot of our thought process, Lamoriello said, before later adding on a radio appearance, When he did come in and get an opportunity, I mean, he made an immediate impact. That was the thought process when we were looking at maybe seeing if we should and could make us better in that area. Right now we feel very good about our defence.

This is like me saying "right now I feel very good about being single" after my crush checks 'no' on the slip of paper I just handed her (people still do that, right??).

We can be pretty certain that the Leafs made an offer on McDonagh, and it was probably a half-decent one. So they can't feel THAT good about the defence. They're aware it needs upgrading, Lou's obviously not going to say that in front of a mic at this point and time though.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 27, 2018, 03:39:40 PM
At least Lou didn't make a crazydumb move, reverting to his final years in Jersey.  Although in saying that, I guess I am mostly agreeing with Nik that the current front office hasn't really pulled off a trade or signing of note since Andersen.  I was willing to let them dine out on that for this deadline, but starting this summer they need to show us they can add the pieces needed to make the team a top-tier contender.  Then we'll see how shrewd they really are.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 27, 2018, 04:21:03 PM
What you guys don't understand about JVR is that guys like Evander Kane only got a second round draft pick. The market was soft and the other GMs were shrewd. Now before you all jump in and say that Kane is a cancer in the dressing room, let's not forget that JVR is a flawed player also. JVR is brutal defensively. So really, would you have taken a second rounder for JVR? I wouldn't.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 04:54:25 PM
What you guys don't understand about JVR is that guys like Evander Kane only got a second round draft pick.

I really don't know why you'd say this, and build an argument around it, when it's just not true.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: sickbeast on February 27, 2018, 05:04:29 PM
What you guys don't understand about JVR is that guys like Evander Kane only got a second round draft pick.

I really don't know why you'd say this, and build an argument around it, when it's just not true.
What's not true about it? It's only a first round pick if San Jose signs him to an extension. The fourth round pick is conditional also. From what I understand the trade was basically Kane for a second round pick. Please correct me if I am wrong. Otherwise I don't appreciate the nit picking and the micro managing for no reason.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 27, 2018, 05:16:08 PM
What's not true about it? It's only a first round pick if San Jose signs him to an extension. The fourth round pick is conditional also.

The condition on the 4th round pick is whether it's a 4th in 2019 or a 3rd in 2020, at San Jose's choice. So it's definitely two picks(and an AHL depth player/prospect) that could just as easily be said to be a conditional 1st(re-signing Kane isn't out of the question) and a 3rd. Either way, he 100% didn't get dealt for "only" a 2nd round pick.

Beyond that Kane isn't just a question mark in the dressing room, he's also a flawed player(he's not getting any Selke votes either). A flawed player who hasn't scored 50+ points since 2011-2012(the only time in his career when he has) vs. JVR who's cracked that mark in three of the last four years. So I'm pretty comfortable saying JVR is a better and more valuable player than Kane.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 27, 2018, 05:34:00 PM
At least Lou didn't make a crazydumb move, reverting to his final years in Jersey.  Although in saying that, I guess I am mostly agreeing with Nik that the current front office hasn't really pulled off a trade or signing of note since Andersen.  I was willing to let them dine out on that for this deadline, but starting this summer they need to show us they can add the pieces needed to make the team a top-tier contender.  Then we'll see how shrewd they really are.
How many rounds in the playoffs do they have to get through to show we are a top-tier contender?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Guilt Trip on February 27, 2018, 05:45:36 PM
At least Lou didn't make a crazydumb move, reverting to his final years in Jersey.  Although in saying that, I guess I am mostly agreeing with Nik that the current front office hasn't really pulled off a trade or signing of note since Andersen.  I was willing to let them dine out on that for this deadline, but starting this summer they need to show us they can add the pieces needed to make the team a top-tier contender.  Then we'll see how shrewd they really are.
How many rounds in the playoffs do they have to get through to show we are a top-tier contender?
None..They're likely going up against one of the top 5 teams in the league. That's a tough road. Winning a round or losing one will have little impact..The Leafs are a very good team.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 27, 2018, 07:38:13 PM
At least Lou didn't make a crazydumb move, reverting to his final years in Jersey.  Although in saying that, I guess I am mostly agreeing with Nik that the current front office hasn't really pulled off a trade or signing of note since Andersen.  I was willing to let them dine out on that for this deadline, but starting this summer they need to show us they can add the pieces needed to make the team a top-tier contender.  Then we'll see how shrewd they really are.
How many rounds in the playoffs do they have to get through to show we are a top-tier contender?
None..They're likely going up against one of the top 5 teams in the league. That's a tough road. Winning a round or losing one will have little impact..The Leafs are a very good team.
That is not my point, ZBBM said we need to add pieces during the summer and I don't have a problem with that, but if we end up contending for the Cup, then why do we need to add expensive pieces that may not fit in. I think these guys know what they are doing, since Shanahan took over. If we get thrashed in the first round then we have to look at things.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 27, 2018, 08:27:23 PM
What I'm saying is that this year should be the last of the low-expectation years, in terms of the playoffs.  Next year is the beginning of what I would consider a real window of time that they should be going for it.  It remains to be seen whether Lou/Shanahan can get the defenseman (men) we need.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: skrackle on February 28, 2018, 01:43:52 AM
At least Lou didn't make a crazydumb move, reverting to his final years in Jersey.  Although in saying that, I guess I am mostly agreeing with Nik that the current front office hasn't really pulled off a trade or signing of note since Andersen.  I was willing to let them dine out on that for this deadline, but starting this summer they need to show us they can add the pieces needed to make the team a top-tier contender.  Then we'll see how shrewd they really are.
How many rounds in the playoffs do they have to get through to show we are a top-tier contender?
None..They're likely going up against one of the top 5 teams in the league. That's a tough road. Winning a round or losing one will have little impact..The Leafs are a very good team.

I'd say the Leafs would have to make the final 4 to be considered a contender. The Leafs are an improving team, but they have not won a playoff round since the Pat Quinn era. That's not on current management, but just being happy to be in the playoffs will wear thin soon.

They are obviously banking on improvement mostly from within. Winning at least one round would be an indication the Leafs are on the right track.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: hockeyfan1 on February 28, 2018, 03:03:11 AM
I saw it as a two-step process:

1. Sell some UFAs for futures (picks and/or prospects.)
2. Buy some quality talent.

With step one, I would have been glad to move even one of the upcoming UFAs. JvR would obviously net the best return, but even Bozak should have gotten a 2nd rounder and a mid-level prospect.

Step two didn't even have to happen for me to be satisfied. But it would have been a bonus, particularly if they moved two or more of the UFAs.

I'm bummed out neither happened. And, honestly, I'm bummed that we didn't get McDonagh, even though I knew chances weren't great. He's the exact type of player I think the team needs. I don't think this team really needs a Karlsson or Doughty calibre player, but he would have been a huge upgrade.


Acquiring McDonagh probably would have helped the Leafs, but according to how Lamoniello and the management were thinking, and to some extent Babcock included, the price for acquiring him might just have been too high -- a 1st Round pick, a prospect and perhaps either one of Dermott or Lillejgren.

Mirltle's piece explains and quotes Lou Lam & Babcock's comments (from the radio show).

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 28, 2018, 02:58:41 PM
https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/31-thoughts-karlsson-pacioretty-deadline-deals-fell-flat/
Re: who else was in on Karlsson other than the Golden Knights:
Quote
3. [...] A couple of sources indicated Toronto was looking to add another first-round pick, and it would have been interesting to see what the Maple Leafs were going to do with that.

Looks like they were considering flipping a UFA (I assume JvR, because who else would net a 1st?) to generate some trade capital, but held off when the back half of the trade did not materialize.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on February 28, 2018, 03:13:03 PM
RDS: Valiev and Rychel follow-up (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rds.ca%2Fhockey%2Frocket%2Fune-meilleure-chance-a-montreal-pour-rychel-et-valiev-1.5967574&edit-text=&act=url)

Valiev on whether or not he was surprised to be traded.
Quote
Not at all. I wanted that to happen. In fact, I asked
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 28, 2018, 03:20:27 PM
RDS: Valiev and Rychel follow-up (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rds.ca%2Fhockey%2Frocket%2Fune-meilleure-chance-a-montreal-pour-rychel-et-valiev-1.5967574&edit-text=&act=url)

Valiev on whether or not he was surprised to be traded.
Quote
Not at all. I wanted that to happen. In fact, I asked

Please trade me to the team with the worst minor-league defence depth you can find.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: TML fan on February 28, 2018, 03:22:33 PM
That's not surprising. His chances to crack this lineup were pretty slim.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on February 28, 2018, 03:22:48 PM
Thanks for this report. I wish them both the best, especially Valiev
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on March 01, 2018, 09:54:06 AM
Lou considered the promotions of Kapanen and Dermott to be like trade acquisitions. Which to me, also reads as they've played their way out of the general trade bait tier.

https://www.mapleleafshotstove.com/2018/03/01/lou-lamoriello-relatively-quiet-trade-deadline-couple-additions-last-several-weeks-like-trades-kasperi-kapanen-travis-dermott/

Re: making the big trade at the deadline:
Quote
Lamoriello: It all depends on the individual situation and what the needs are for that team. I believe in the team that you have, at this given time, you ought to know if they are good enough to go a certain distance and what the need is. We tried very hard here over the last couple of years to stay focused on a plan, to have a team and have an organization that can sustain competing for a number of years not just one shot at it. We had a couple of additions, too, in the last several weeks that are like trades in Kapanen and Dermott. There are little things that happen that persuade you to go one way or another in how you make decisions.

Re: Lou's build philosophy
Quote
Can you put together a team now in 2018 the same way the New Jersey Devils were put together? Is it still the same formula if you want to get a team that can win the Stanley Cup and contend and win it for many years?

Lamoriello: I think it goes back to the drafting. There is credit that should be given to the scouts in our organization for the players that were drafted, in particular players that were drafted in the high-end. Of course, Auston was drafted first overall, but when you look at the decisions they made and this was prior to me on Mitch Marner there were other players available and the decision on Willy Nylander there were others that were available and where they turned out Look at Connor Brown and Dermott, and the acquisition they made for Hyman. Im only looking at the young players right now that will serve the core for future because they stay within that window of free agency with the age factor.

I believe you can, to answer the question trying to give it a little background. They have to be supported with the players to have success. You certainly have to start with the goaltender. I always believe that you start with the goaltender and go through the defense and then, if you can get the quality forwards, you have a chance.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 10:00:11 AM

"If you think about it, these college free agents are like having 1st round picks".
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on March 01, 2018, 10:12:13 AM
I mean, I kind of agree with the philosophy in general.  The Leafs now with Dermott and Kapanen having regular roles are improved from the team that played back in October, so in that sense they're like "acquisitions" since they weren't on the Leafs until recently.  Hopefully Plekanec can provide a bit of an upgrade down the middle and we'll see where this thing goes in the playoffs.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 10:21:30 AM

We've had GMs try to upsell their inactivity before. It's a stretch to call that a philosophy.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on March 01, 2018, 10:42:48 AM

We've had GMs try to upsell their inactivity before. It's a stretch to call that a philosophy.

Well it's a matter of a minor upgrade with Plekanec, and seeing what we have in house.  I don't mind the approach of playing our guys down the stretch and into the playoffs to see how good they are, we're still only 2 years removed from 30th overall.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Strangelove on March 01, 2018, 10:43:41 AM
I mean, I kind of agree with the philosophy in general.  The Leafs now with Dermott and Kapanen having regular roles are improved from the team that played back in October, so in that sense they're like "acquisitions" since they weren't on the Leafs until recently.  Hopefully Plekanec can provide a bit of an upgrade down the middle and we'll see where this thing goes in the playoffs.

If Plekanec is used by Babcock as a top six forward (a la early season Komarov), then that is subtraction by addition.

The contrast between how veterans and young stars are treated by the team is pretty wacky. Komarov got several months to stink up the joint and put up historically awful offensive numbers before finally being demoted from the top six.

Nylander got one game at center before the coach kicked him out of the position in favour of an underperforming veteran and publicly questioned his "compete" level.

The tough love thing didn't work when Randy did it, and i don't much like it from Babcock and co either.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 01, 2018, 10:51:37 AM
Don't forget that JVR, Bozak, and Komarov are technically all "own-rentals" too. How many teams acquired 5 key roster players? If you think about it we crushed deadline day.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 10:53:45 AM
Well it's a matter of a minor upgrade with Plekanec, and seeing what we have in house.  I don't mind the approach of playing our guys down the stretch and into the playoffs to see how good they are, we're still only 2 years removed from 30th overall.

It's not the end of the world or anything but I think that it's clear that A) they tried to make something happen and couldn't and B) teams out there were able to improve their situations at very reasonable prices.

But more than that there's just so much BS in that interview. Like this:

Quote
You certainly have to start with the goaltender. I always believe that you start with the goaltender and go through the defense and then, if you can get the quality forwards, you have a chance.

Like, what does this even mean? Clearly successful teams have been built by adding key elements on D/F first so...it's important to have good goaltending then? Good goaltending matters? Stunning insight there Lou.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on March 01, 2018, 11:06:02 AM
Well it's a matter of a minor upgrade with Plekanec, and seeing what we have in house.  I don't mind the approach of playing our guys down the stretch and into the playoffs to see how good they are, we're still only 2 years removed from 30th overall.

It's not the end of the world or anything but I think that it's clear that A) they tried to make something happen and couldn't and B) teams out there were able to improve their situations at very reasonable prices.

I'm fine with them A) trying to make something happen and couldn't if they value some of the prospects in the system highly and didn't want to give up on them.  I don't know what the equal package to get McDonagh would have been.  Tampa gave up a 20 goal scorer and a couple of prospects.  Does that mean the Leafs could have made the deal with Brown, and maybe Johnnson and/or Grundstrom and picks? 
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 11:14:19 AM
I'm fine with them A) trying to make something happen and couldn't if they value some of the prospects in the system highly and didn't want to give up on them.  I don't know what the equal package to get McDonagh would have been.  Tampa gave up a 20 goal scorer and a couple of prospects.  Does that mean the Leafs could have made the deal with Brown, and maybe Johnnson and/or Grundstrom and picks?

I don't think trading a prospect means you're giving up on a prospect. To the contrary, I think you're recognizing their value but just that it maybe isn't the perfect fit depending on the various strengths/weaknesses or you have the opportunity to get something even more valuable in return.

I've said this before but if you're ok with the principle of making a deal that will really improve the team you have to also be ok with moving players who you'd rather not get rid of. Remember that the talk re: Phaneuf when he got traded here was how great it was that we got the #1 defenseman of our dreams and didn't have to give up too much? Well, it turned out only one of those things was true.

But even then my reaction here is really just that Lou seems full of it rather than any specific criticisms of what they did or didn't do at the deadline.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on March 01, 2018, 12:45:12 PM
Quote
You certainly have to start with the goaltender. I always believe that you start with the goaltender and go through the defense and then, if you can get the quality forwards, you have a chance.

Like, what does this even mean? Clearly successful teams have been built by adding key elements on D/F first so...it's important to have good goaltending then? Good goaltending matters? Stunning insight there Lou.

I was a bit confused that we would pursue a goaltender so early in our rebuild (why not gain more top end picks? ride out Bernier's contract until the deadline, etc.). I liked Andersen as a choice, but I was confused by the timing.

Looking back on it now, I think I get it. Having a stable presence, even an average one, makes a huge difference to skilled creative players up front and young defenders. When every little mixup or mishap from trying to execute winds up in the back of your net, it's deflating in a game and cumulative over the course of a season +. I look at Carolina's beautiful defense group and pretty solid complement of forwards as the reverse example, and see them still waffling in the mushy middle despite their consistent shot share advantage.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on March 01, 2018, 12:49:32 PM
I think I can remember Burke saying exactly what Lou just game out with, built out
 starting with the net, defense and then forwards.  So it must be the common mantra for aging GM's.

We started with a flock of talented forwards, bought a great Goaltender and have a suspect D.  So in the words of Meatloaf "2 out of 3 aint bad".
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on March 01, 2018, 12:52:16 PM
Well it's a matter of a minor upgrade with Plekanec, and seeing what we have in house.  I don't mind the approach of playing our guys down the stretch and into the playoffs to see how good they are, we're still only 2 years removed from 30th overall.

It's not the end of the world or anything but I think that it's clear that A) they tried to make something happen and couldn't and B) teams out there were able to improve their situations at very reasonable prices.

I'm fine with them A) trying to make something happen and couldn't if they value some of the prospects in the system highly and didn't want to give up on them.  I don't know what the equal package to get McDonagh would have been.  Tampa gave up a 20 goal scorer and a couple of prospects.  Does that mean the Leafs could have made the deal with Brown, and maybe Johnnson and/or Grundstrom and picks?

I appreciate a management group that can set their valuation and stick with it. I also a appreciate a management group that knows when they're within spitting distance of glory and just boxes everyone else out. I don't think the Leafs are that close yet.

McDonagh would have been nice to get; the ask according to a couple insider-adjacent people was Liljegren +. For us, he would have been a marked improvement to the current corps, but not a perfect fit 'forever'. Would he have moved the needle enough to warrant the spend? I don't know but I lean towards not really.

Ranger fans were a bit miffed by the seemingly middling return, and I was surprised it was so cheap looking. The Leafs were a distant third in terms of what was being offered.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 01, 2018, 01:01:08 PM
McDonagh would have been nice to get; the ask according to a couple insider-adjacent people was Liljegren +.

I'm curious where you heard that.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on March 01, 2018, 01:15:35 PM
McDonagh would have been nice to get; the ask according to a couple insider-adjacent people was Liljegren +.

I'm curious where you heard that.


There was this one:

Which is clearly just a guess by an insider-adjacent person. The other one I saw referenced on reddit was a TSN off-camera employee who tweeted some deets, but I can't find it. He used to follow me for some reason, but has disappeared (Lou'd?). Kypreos was apparently also saying that the Leafs would need to start at Liljegren or they won't get any traction on a McDonagh trade.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on March 01, 2018, 01:16:00 PM
Don't forget that JVR, Bozak, and Komarov are technically all "own-rentals" too. How many teams acquired 5 key roster players? If you think about it we crushed deadline day.

Hey man, 6 player adds!  Don't sell us short here.  The 3 you mentioned, Plekanec, Dermott and Kapanen make 6.  8)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 01, 2018, 01:27:37 PM
Which is clearly just a guess by an insider-adjacent person. The other one I saw referenced on reddit was a TSN off-camera employee who tweeted some deets, but I can't find it. He used to follow me for some reason, but has disappeared (Lou'd?). Kypreos was apparently also saying that the Leafs would need to start at Liljegren or they won't get any traction on a McDonagh trade.

Even calling Mirtle "insider-adjacent" sounds like quite the stretch. That guess also came prior to the actual return from Tampa became public and everyone at that point figured it was going to be a pretty massive haul for the Rangers. I just can't fathom how the Rangers could accept the prospects that they did from Tampa but demand that the Leafs give them Liljegren or Dermott.

As for the other one, you lost me at "on reddit".
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on March 01, 2018, 01:29:04 PM
Which is clearly just a guess by an insider-adjacent person. The other one I saw referenced on reddit was a TSN off-camera employee who tweeted some deets, but I can't find it. He used to follow me for some reason, but has disappeared (Lou'd?). Kypreos was apparently also saying that the Leafs would need to start at Liljegren or they won't get any traction on a McDonagh trade.

Even calling Mirtle "insider-adjacent" sounds like quite the stretch. That guess also came prior to the actual return from Tampa became public and everyone at that point figured it was going to be a pretty massive haul for the Rangers. I just can't fathom how the Rangers could accept the prospects that they did from Tampa but demand that the Leafs give them Liljegren or Dermott.

As for the other one, you lost me at "on reddit".

Let me show you what they were saying on hfboards...
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on March 01, 2018, 01:29:15 PM
Like, what does this even mean? Clearly successful teams have been built by adding key elements on D/F first so...it's important to have good goaltending then? Good goaltending matters? Stunning insight there Lou.

It's just typical Lou drivel.  I don't even read the transcripts of his interviews anymore...there just isn't anything substantial in them. 

Babcock I find a little more candid, but Lou interviews like a platitudes programmed robot.

Speaking of Lou, nobody has talked about this trade deadline in the context of him not having a deal for next season and beyond...does anyone think that Dubas takes over this summer, and maybe Lou just stays on as an advisor?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 01, 2018, 01:32:07 PM
Let me show you what they were saying on hfboards...

(https://media.giphy.com/media/ToMjGpx9F5ktZw8qPUQ/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 01, 2018, 01:34:30 PM
Don't forget that JVR, Bozak, and Komarov are technically all "own-rentals" too. How many teams acquired 5 key roster players? If you think about it we crushed deadline day.

Hey man, 6 player adds!  Don't sell us short here.  The 3 you mentioned, Plekanec, Dermott and Kapanen make 6.  8)

You're right. That A just became an A+.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on March 01, 2018, 01:44:02 PM
Let's assume all top three suitors were negotiated into offering pretty much the equivalent package.

I think the kicker is the conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st if they win a Cup in the remainder of McDonagh contract. Which of Tampa, Florida, and Toronto has the best window with McDonagh?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 01:56:15 PM
Let's assume all top three suitors were negotiated into offering pretty much the equivalent package.

I think the kicker is the conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st if they win a Cup in the remainder of McDonagh contract. Which of Tampa, Florida, and Toronto has the best window with McDonagh?

If you're that invested in the pursuit of McDonagh why in the world would you let NYR's perception of your Stanley Cup chances be the deciding factor?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on March 01, 2018, 01:56:50 PM
Let's assume all top three suitors were negotiated into offering pretty much the equivalent package.

I think the kicker is the conditional 2nd that turns into a 1st if they win a Cup in the remainder of McDonagh contract. Which of Tampa, Florida, and Toronto has the best window with McDonagh?

Florida could catch a wildcard spot if they keep playing the way they are.  They looked pretty good against the Leafs the other night too, and are 7-3 in their last 10.

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/standings#/wildcard

But obviously, Tampa is the clear front runner in your example.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 01:59:57 PM
When every little mixup or mishap from trying to execute winds up in the back of your net, it's deflating in a game and cumulative over the course of a season +.

For a guy who supposedly loves data over the cliche you sure revert to the cliche whenever it's needed to insulate this management group from criticism.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on March 01, 2018, 02:00:35 PM
Which is clearly just a guess by an insider-adjacent person. The other one I saw referenced on reddit was a TSN off-camera employee who tweeted some deets, but I can't find it. He used to follow me for some reason, but has disappeared (Lou'd?). Kypreos was apparently also saying that the Leafs would need to start at Liljegren or they won't get any traction on a McDonagh trade.

Even calling Mirtle "insider-adjacent" sounds like quite the stretch. That guess also came prior to the actual return from Tampa became public and everyone at that point figured it was going to be a pretty massive haul for the Rangers. I just can't fathom how the Rangers could accept the prospects that they did from Tampa but demand that the Leafs give them Liljegren or Dermott.

As for the other one, you lost me at "on reddit".

I think everyone seems to be saying that the Leafs package of 1st, 2nd*, Brown/Kapanen, Grundstrom, and Bracco (or equivalent prospects like Johnsson, Korshkov etc) would have got it done. (* conditional 1st if they won the cup)  I don't see that at all and I'll explain why:

1.  Howden was a 1st round pick (higher pedigree than any of the prospects listed above) and is a CENTER projected to be a middle-six guy.
2.  Hajek is a 2nd round pick and is a DEFENSEMAN projected to be a 4/5 guy.  Furthermore, Rangers really insisted on him so maybe they see his upside as being higher.

All of our decent prospects are wingers except for Liljegren (counting Dermott as no longer a prospect btw).  Brooks is really our only C prospect of note and he doesn't have Howden's pedigree.

Furthermore Brown is NOT equivalent to Namestnikov and some of us (including me at first) said "ok Kapanen" instead.  Again, we are talking about wingers... but Namestnikov was drafted as a Center and played wing in TB primarily because they have lots of Centers (Stamkos, Point, Johnson).  In his first game as a Ranger, Vlad was playing center and that is where the Rangers see him.  Again, the value of middle-six wingers or middle-six winger prospects is not as high as centers and d-men.  So- I don't doubt for one second that given our lack of Center ice trade chips that Rangers would have wanted one of Dermott or Liljegren.  They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 01, 2018, 02:21:23 PM
Furthermore Brown is NOT equivalent to Namestnikov and some of us (including me at first) said "ok Kapanen" instead.  Again, we are talking about wingers... but Namestnikov was drafted as a Center and played wing in TB primarily because they have lots of Centers (Stamkos, Point, Johnson).  In his first game as a Ranger, Vlad was playing center and that is where the Rangers see him.  Again, the value of middle-six wingers or middle-six winger prospects is not as high as centers and d-men.  So- I don't doubt for one second that given our lack of Center ice trade chips that Rangers would have wanted one of Dermott or Liljegren.  They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).

I think you've made some good points here regarding the prospects Tampa gave up. One thing I'd point out is that we seem to be forgetting that Tampa didn't just trade for McDonagh. J.T. Miller came in the deal as well. If I had to break down the components of the trade I'd say that he was essentially traded one-for-one for Namestnikov. Friedman or somebody wrote that Tampa sent out an e-mail to the other teams saying that they were looking to move a centre for a natural winger, so this swap makes sense as they're of similar age and have close point totals. I'm not entirely sure how crucial this aspect of the trade was to New York in terms of getting the deal done. Namestnikov is 25 years old and the Rangers are rebuilding. I think if anything this swap was more beneficial to the Lightning since it gives them that natural winger they were looking for. I also just think that Miller is the better of those two players in general. He's really flown under the radar when talking about this trade.

I guess what I'm saying is that when we're trying to break this deal down into components like you did the Namestnikov for Miller part really isn't something we should consider too much. So Brown or Kapanen don't need to be the equivalent of Namestnikov, they'd be the equivalent of Howden. And even though yes Howden is a centre and those guys aren't Brown's NHL experience and Kapanen's higher upside would cancel out Howden's position bonus when I'm calculating their trade value.

Now, if the Rangers weirdly said "we have to trade Miller for a NHL centre in this trade as well" then yeah I would concede that we couldn't have competed with Tampa's offer.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 02:26:56 PM
One thing I'd point out is that we seem to be forgetting that Tampa didn't just trade for McDonagh. J.T. Miller came in the deal as well.

It really is remarkable how often a 24 year old coming off a 22 goal/56 point season is being seen as a valueless afterthought.

And while he may be a natural winger he seems to be taking a bunch of face-offs this year and was winning them at a pretty good clip.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 02:27:55 PM
They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).

It really is remarkable just how much I'm starting to hate that Korshkov pick.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 01, 2018, 02:29:13 PM
They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).

It really is remarkable just how much I'm starting to hate that Korshkov pick.

Starting?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 02:37:43 PM
Starting?

You'll notice I'm no longer making "Haha, he's old" jokes.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on March 01, 2018, 02:40:16 PM
Starting?

You'll notice I'm no longer making "Haha, he's old" jokes.

I fail to see what your feelings about Highlander have to do with this.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 01, 2018, 02:40:43 PM
Starting?

You'll notice I'm no longer making "Haha, he's old" jokes.

Well I mean 26 isn't really that old.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zee on March 01, 2018, 02:54:42 PM
They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).

It really is remarkable just how much I'm starting to hate that Korshkov pick.

But he plays for Yaroslavl Lokomotiv.

Everybody's doing a brand-new dance, now
(Come on baby, do the Lokomotiv)
I know you'll get to like it if you give it a chance now
(Come on baby, do the Lokomotiv)
My little baby sister can do it with me
It's easier than learning your a-b-c's
So come on, come on, do the Lokomotiv with me
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on March 01, 2018, 02:57:35 PM
When every little mixup or mishap from trying to execute winds up in the back of your net, it's deflating in a game and cumulative over the course of a season +.

For a guy who supposedly loves data over the cliche you sure revert to the cliche whenever it's needed to insulate this management group from criticism.

Probably because I don't feel it is an unsubstantiated cliche. And supposedly is right, as I've also never purported to love data over cliche (or traditional views). If it happens to be the way I see it, regardless of which side it aligns with, that's what I'll write.

Maybe it sounds like I'm feeling protective of this management group, but I wasn't interested in us betting the farm on McDonagh or even Karlsson at this deadline. I may have also been the first to piss on the Martin signing so it's not like I have unrestrained praise for everything they're doing.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 03:00:52 PM
But he plays for Yaroslavl Lokomotiv.

I've always been partial to Chelyabinsk Traktor.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 01, 2018, 03:03:51 PM
I may have also been the first to piss on the Martin signing so it's not like I have unrestrained praise for everything they're doing.

Woah woah woah, I'd like to make it abundantly clear that I was the first one to piss on the Martin contract, by about 8.5 minutes.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 03:10:23 PM
Probably because I don't feel it is an unsubstantiated cliche.

Really? So you think the difference between a good NHL goalie and a not very good NHL goalie is that playing the not very good one means that every single mistake results in a goal? That in a league where the difference between a good goalie and a not good goalie is 15 goals out of 1000 shots it's not just a question of degree?

Or do you not think young forwards/defensemen can learn to win in spite of not very good goaltending behind them at the beginning? Because there's a few Stanley Cup banners in Chicago that would probably beg to differ.

As I said in the post you quoted, lots of good teams have been built by putting the forwards in place first(or the defense). Lots of good teams overcame the adversity of wonky goaltending. There just isn't evidence that starting with a good goalie is any more or less effective than any other method of team construction.

Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: herman on March 01, 2018, 03:12:05 PM
I may have also been the first to piss on the Martin signing so it's not like I have unrestrained praise for everything they're doing.

Woah woah woah, I'd like to make it abundantly clear that I was the first one to piss on the Martin contract, by about 8.5 minutes.

I couched that with a 'may have' because I wasn't going to check the data.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Frank E on March 01, 2018, 03:25:02 PM
Probably because I don't feel it is an unsubstantiated cliche.

Really? So you think the difference between a good NHL goalie and a not very good NHL goalie is that playing the not very good one means that every single mistake results in a goal? That in a league where the difference between a good goalie and a not good goalie is 15 goals out of 1000 shots it's not just a question of degree?

Or do you not think young forwards/defensemen can learn to win in spite of not very good goaltending behind them at the beginning? Because there's a few Stanley Cup banners in Chicago that would probably beg to differ.

As I said in the post you quoted, lots of good teams have been built by putting the forwards in place first(or the defense). Lots of good teams overcame the adversity of wonky goaltending. There just isn't evidence that starting with a good goalie is any more or less effective than any other method of team construction.

Well, 15 goals per 1000 shots averages out to .45 goals per game, given an average of 30 shots.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 03:28:28 PM
Well, 15 goals per 1000 shots averages out to .45 goals per game, given an average of 30 shots.

Sure, but even that is working under the premise that SV% is an entirely defense-independent number which it probably isn't. Even such, it doesn't translate to "every" mistake.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: L K on March 01, 2018, 04:03:41 PM
I may have also been the first to piss on the Martin signing so it's not like I have unrestrained praise for everything they're doing.

Woah woah woah, I'd like to make it abundantly clear that I was the first one to piss on the Martin contract, by about 8.5 minutes.

Fake News

The [...] brightside to this is hope [...].
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: L K on March 01, 2018, 04:06:33 PM
They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).

It really is remarkable just how much I'm starting to hate that Korshkov pick.

Don't knock Korshkov.  He's the fourth leading Leaf associated player on his team.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 01, 2018, 04:22:30 PM
They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).

It really is remarkable just how much I'm starting to hate that Korshkov pick.

Don't knock Korshkov.  He's the fourth leading Leaf associated player on his team.

I'm going to crawl in bed with a bottle of amaretto. Good day.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on March 01, 2018, 04:23:20 PM
They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).

It really is remarkable just how much I'm starting to hate that Korshkov pick.

Don't knock Korshkov.  He's the fourth leading Leaf associated player on his team.

I'm going to crawl in bed with a bottle of amaretto. Good day.

Careful.  You may wake up with a bottle of scotch.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Coco-puffs on March 01, 2018, 04:43:04 PM
They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).

It really is remarkable just how much I'm starting to hate that Korshkov pick.

Don't knock Korshkov.  He's the fourth leading Leaf associated player on his team.

I'm going to crawl in bed with a bottle of amaretto. Good day.

Careful.  You may wake up with a bottle of scotch.

Sign me up (as long as its a good bottle of scotch)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on March 01, 2018, 05:53:32 PM
Starting?

You'll notice I'm no longer making "Haha, he's old" jokes.

I fail to see what your feelings about Highlander have to do with this.
Did I miss something when I was taking my Geritol?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on March 01, 2018, 05:54:50 PM
They weren't going to see a package of three wingers/winger prospects from the Leafs as anywhere equal to the package they got from TB which is NHL-Center, Center (prospect), D-man (prospect).

It really is remarkable just how much I'm starting to hate that Korshkov pick.

Don't knock Korshkov.  He's the fourth leading Leaf associated player on his team.
I guess you have named your poison, to sweet for my liking but it's a big world for us all.

I'm going to crawl in bed with a bottle of amaretto. Good day.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on March 01, 2018, 08:41:50 PM
Starting?

You'll notice I'm no longer making "Haha, he's old" jokes.

I fail to see what your feelings about Highlander have to do with this.
Did I miss something when I was taking my Geritol?

Nope, nothing going on here.  Hey is that the the theme song to Matlock I hear?
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: LuncheonMeat on March 01, 2018, 09:04:30 PM
Starting?

You'll notice I'm no longer making "Haha, he's old" jokes.

I fail to see what your feelings about Highlander have to do with this.
Did I miss something when I was taking my Geritol?

Nope, nothing going on here.  Hey is that the the theme song to Matlock I hear?

Mannix, actually.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on March 01, 2018, 10:07:21 PM
Starting?

You'll notice I'm no longer making "Haha, he's old" jokes.

I fail to see what your feelings about Highlander have to do with this.
Did I miss something when I was taking my Geritol?

Nope, nothing going on here.  Hey is that the the theme song to Matlock I hear?

He always ate a fully loaded chili dog for lunch.  I like chili dogs.
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: hockeyfan1 on March 02, 2018, 02:29:29 AM
Starting?

You'll notice I'm no longer making "Haha, he's old" jokes.

I fail to see what your feelings about Highlander have to do with this.
Did I miss something when I was taking my Geritol?

Nope, nothing going on here.  Hey is that the the theme song to Matlock I hear?

Mannix, actually.


Mission: Impossible (the '60's edition)   :)
Title: Re: Trade Deadline
Post by: Highlander on March 02, 2018, 10:25:26 AM
Funny I was thinking about Rod Serling and his intro to The Twilight Zone (on my hike yesterday)..Witness if you will