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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: disco on October 10, 2017, 07:10:29 PM

Title: Andreas Borgman
Post by: disco on October 10, 2017, 07:10:29 PM
I'm putting the hits here. There will be a few.
Two minutes for being a beast, hawk totally tipped the puck :D
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: Arn on October 11, 2017, 05:43:30 AM
I love that the referee about 3 feet away from the hit and looking directly at it calls nothing and the guy half way down the ice calls a penalty
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: Kaberle15 on October 11, 2017, 09:21:10 AM
I love that the referee about 3 feet away from the hit and looking directly at it calls nothing and the guy half way down the ice calls a penalty

To be fair, the puck was almost behind the net when he hits...
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: Highlander on October 11, 2017, 09:33:53 AM
I love that the referee about 3 feet away from the hit and looking directly at it calls nothing and the guy half way down the ice calls a penalty

To be fair, the puck was almost behind the net when he hits...
Who cares, we need a D man that can punish and looks like the Borg is a crusher
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: Bender on October 11, 2017, 10:22:25 AM
I love that the referee about 3 feet away from the hit and looking directly at it calls nothing and the guy half way down the ice calls a penalty

To be fair, the puck was almost behind the net when he hits...

He already committed to the hit when he was making the pass, the pass took a half second to travel back round the net. I wouldn't call that a late hit and if it's not a late hit then it's not a penalty.
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 11, 2017, 10:34:39 AM
He already committed to the hit when he was making the pass, the pass took a half second to travel back round the net. I wouldn't call that a late hit and if it's not a late hit then it's not a penalty.

DeBrincat never made a pass. There's some debate as to whether or not the puck touched his stick but he never was in possession.

Which I think was ultimately the issue. He was committed to the hit before he knew if DeBrincat ever touched the puck and did so with no way of knowing if he did.
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 11, 2017, 10:37:11 AM
He already committed to the hit when he was making the pass, the pass took a half second to travel back round the net. I wouldn't call that a late hit and if it's not a late hit then it's not a penalty.

DeBrincat never made a pass. There's some debate as to whether or not the puck touched his stick but he never was in possession.

Which I think was ultimately the issue. He was committed to the hit before he knew if DeBrincat ever touched the puck and did so with no way of knowing if he did.

Is there a grey area though?

DeBrincat was in a position to play the puck, motioned like he was going to and then made the decision not to, surely the dman must get some leeway in that situation?

It's also frustrating that the ref that was 3 feet away looking directly at it thought it was fine and yet the far ref calls a penalty from 50 feet away.
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 11, 2017, 10:50:32 AM
Is there a grey area though?

DeBrincat was in a position to play the puck, motioned like he was going to and then made the decision not to, surely the dman must get some leeway in that situation?

Well, the way I understand it the rule is there so defenders don't over commit to hits. Rulebook wise you could make an argument that if DeBrincat did touch the puck it would constitute possession and then the hit would be nominally legal(even with the very vague definition of what constitutes charging) but to me the whole point of the rule is to dissuade guys from lining up big hits and worrying about the legality later.

It's also frustrating that the ref that was 3 feet away looking directly at it thought it was fine and yet the far ref calls a penalty from 50 feet away.

I don't entirely get that. The whole point of the two referee system is so you can have two different perspectives from two angles. The closer ref might have been looking at the hit and making the same assumption Borgman did of DeBrincat playing it with the further away ref watching the puck and seeing DeBrincat didn't. Being closer to the action also means you have a more limited field of vision.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that even if what I say up there is true it can be hard to buy that a Ref from 50 feet away or wherever can definitively say whether or not DeBrincat played the puck but Refs make bad calls from up close all the time and I don't know that we have definitive evidence here that this was a bad call.
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 11, 2017, 10:50:39 AM
Which I think was ultimately the issue. He was committed to the hit before he knew if DeBrincat ever touched the puck and did so with no way of knowing if he did.

DeBrincat kind of ran into him from behind moments earlier too. If it wasn't for the size/strength difference it could have been a dangerous hit. Not saying that that gives Borgman the right to go after him, but I'm sure he was a little irked about it and wanted to return the favour the first chance he got. And I'm sure the ref noticed that too and figured he was going hunting for a hit.
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: Frank E on October 11, 2017, 11:15:50 AM
Which I think was ultimately the issue. He was committed to the hit before he knew if DeBrincat ever touched the puck and did so with no way of knowing if he did.

DeBrincat kind of ran into him from behind moments earlier too. If it wasn't for the size/strength difference it could have been a dangerous hit. Not saying that that gives Borgman the right to go after him, but I'm sure he was a little irked about it and wanted to return the favour the first chance he got. And I'm sure the ref noticed that too and figured he was going hunting for a hit.

That's exactly what I saw too...Borgman didn't like the hit from behind, and was going right after him.  If it weren't for Borgman hammering a guy half his size, I don't think that call gets made.
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: Highlander on October 11, 2017, 11:22:34 AM
The main thing is he hammered him. Worth the penalty :)
Title: Re: Andreas Borgman
Post by: disco on October 14, 2017, 01:34:06 PM
Babs: "Go out and hit people."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObeOxj34PkU
I love how he skates into position along the boards and the guy just bounces of him and onto his back. Right into the center with the shoulder, even with Rodriquez looking down a bit. The dude knows how to body-check properly, totally clean. I'm predicting The Borg will be this years Zaitsev in the sense of an overseas pickup inserted into the corps and showing he can stick.