TMLfans.ca

Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Marlies & Prospect Talk => Topic started by: Frank E on August 21, 2017, 05:26:57 PM

Title: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Frank E on August 21, 2017, 05:26:57 PM
Busta's #marliescrushmonday post, and certainly herman's unhealthy, and weird, obsession with Griffith got me thinking about your favourite Marlies/prospects that just couldn't cut it in the NHL no matter how much you wanted it for them.  Some of mine:

Williams
Newbury
Peelash
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Bullfrog on August 21, 2017, 05:51:29 PM
Karel Pilar
Peter Holland
Jerry D'Amigo
Stuart Percy
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 21, 2017, 06:28:59 PM
Yegor Korshkov.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Rebel_1812 on August 21, 2017, 07:04:59 PM
Tyler Biggs
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: disco on August 21, 2017, 07:47:52 PM
Lonny Bohonos
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: louisstamos on August 21, 2017, 08:08:29 PM
My first ever favorite player when I was a kid and used to see the Newmarket Saints (the Leafs farm team before St. John's) was Peter Ing.

He never really got a fair shake, though. :P
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: herman on August 21, 2017, 08:29:49 PM
Mikael Tellqvist
Justin Pogge
Jerry D'Amigo
Brandon Kozun
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 21, 2017, 10:23:25 PM

This may not quite be playing by the rules of the game because he did end up having something of an NHL career but Jay Harrison was always that guy for me.

Also Christian Hanson. I really thought he'd establish himself as at least a 4th line C.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Bullfrog on August 21, 2017, 10:25:30 PM
I had Jay Harrison on my list, but figured because he's had a somewhat decent career he didn't count. But "guys that turned out OK but were discarded by the Leafs" could be another list.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: bustaheims on August 21, 2017, 10:39:18 PM
Carter Ashton. Thought he'd be able to become a full-time NHLer somewhere. Still don't think Carlyle used him properly, and that messed him up.

Also really thought Matt Finn would have cracked an NHL lineup by now.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 21, 2017, 11:13:53 PM

To redeem myself from my Harrison pick a teammate of his, Staffan Kronwall, was a guy I really thought would be able to play in the bigs.

And then from the "sort of had a NHL career post-Leafs" file is Nathan Dempsey.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 22, 2017, 08:29:14 AM
My serious pick would be Dmitry Vorobiev. I really thought that he was going to be a solid top-4 defenceman for us if we could only get him to come over from Russia. Then it seemed like he never really took his career seriously as there were reports of him getting massively overweight. He's still playing in the KHL right now but his numbers suggest that he's nothing special.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: cabber24 on August 22, 2017, 09:25:12 AM
I had Jay Harrison on my list, but figured because he's had a somewhat decent career he didn't count. But "guys that turned out OK but were discarded by the Leafs" could be another list.
Harrison can thank Paul Maurice for rescuing him from the AHL. Paul coached the Marlies and when he was head coach of CAR he acquired Harrison. I liked Harrison too.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: cabber24 on August 22, 2017, 09:26:16 AM
Lonny Bohonos
Remember watching him in the Spangler cup years after his Leaf days. I shouldn't say watching... noticing via highlights that Bohonos was in the Spangler cup.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: cabber24 on August 22, 2017, 09:28:39 AM
Carter Ashton. Thought he'd be able to become a full-time NHLer somewhere. Still don't think Carlyle used him properly, and that messed him up.

Also really thought Matt Finn would have cracked an NHL lineup by now.
Wasn't a big Ashton fan he would try to fight and always ended up bleeding profusely. A very punch-able nose apparently.

Matt Finn doesn't even ring a bell.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: cabber24 on August 22, 2017, 09:36:28 AM
Pogge hurts the most because he was chosen over Rask... which triggered the dark days of Andrew Raycroft which lead to a death spiral for the whole franchise.

Pilar! Loved that guy. Heart problems and a lockout season steered him overseas where he stayed.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Bullfrog on August 22, 2017, 10:03:25 AM
I had Jay Harrison on my list, but figured because he's had a somewhat decent career he didn't count. But "guys that turned out OK but were discarded by the Leafs" could be another list.
Harrison can thank Paul Maurice for rescuing him from the AHL. Paul coached the Marlies and when he was head coach of CAR he acquired Harrison. I liked Harrison too.

Slightly off-topic, but I remember watching Stralman on the Marlies and thinking "holy crap, this guy is going to be really good." He got the call-up and played two half seasons with the Leafs then they traded him.........for Wayne Primeau.  :-\  The other guy they let get away (through waivers!) was Steve Sullivan. That really annoyed the hell out of me.

I also really thought Alyn McCauley was going to turn into a solid 2nd line centre, but that didn't pan out.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Frank E on August 22, 2017, 10:11:59 AM
I had Jay Harrison on my list, but figured because he's had a somewhat decent career he didn't count. But "guys that turned out OK but were discarded by the Leafs" could be another list.
Harrison can thank Paul Maurice for rescuing him from the AHL. Paul coached the Marlies and when he was head coach of CAR he acquired Harrison. I liked Harrison too.

Slightly off-topic, but I remember watching Stralman on the Marlies and thinking "holy crap, this guy is going to be really good." He got the call-up and played two half seasons with the Leafs then they traded him.........for Wayne Primeau.  :-\  The other guy they let get away (through waivers!) was Steve Sullivan. That really annoyed the hell out of me.

I also really thought Alyn MacCauley was going to turn into a solid 2nd line centre, but that didn't pan out.

McCauley played 488 NHL games, so I'd say that's a pretty decent NHL career.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Frank E on August 22, 2017, 10:18:46 AM
Jonas Frogren
Ryan Hamilton
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 22, 2017, 10:39:23 AM
Pierre Hedin was someone who came over to North America with quite a bit of hype but fizzled out quickly. Wasn't he the guy one of his Swedish coaches called Lidstrom-like (I couldn't find any evidence of that from google but I thought it was about him).

edit: Looks like that Lidstrom comment I remembered was about Stralman, man we really should have listened to that.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: bustaheims on August 22, 2017, 10:44:30 AM
Wasn't a big Ashton fan he would try to fight and always ended up bleeding profusely. A very punch-able nose apparently.

I blame Carlyle for that. He got into fights more frequently when it was clear he was fighting for a 4th line spot on team coached by a guy who liked to dress fighters on that line.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Omallley on August 22, 2017, 10:46:50 AM
I had Jay Harrison on my list, but figured because he's had a somewhat decent career he didn't count. But "guys that turned out OK but were discarded by the Leafs" could be another list.
Harrison can thank Paul Maurice for rescuing him from the AHL. Paul coached the Marlies and when he was head coach of CAR he acquired Harrison. I liked Harrison too.

Slightly off-topic, but I remember watching Stralman on the Marlies and thinking "holy crap, this guy is going to be really good." He got the call-up and played two half seasons with the Leafs then they traded him.........for Wayne Primeau.  :-\  The other guy they let get away (through waivers!) was Steve Sullivan. That really annoyed the hell out of me.

I also really thought Alyn MacCauley was going to turn into a solid 2nd line centre, but that didn't pan out.

McCauley played 488 NHL games, so I'd say that's a pretty decent NHL career.

He was serviceable. But there was that playoffs in the early 2000s where he really played well (granted, the team was pretty much entirely made up of AHL players at that point) and I definitely had the "maybe he'll put it all together" feeling for him in the coming years. He never hit that level of scoring again.

I had brief hopes that Max Kondratiev would amount to something. And I definitely thought Jeremy Williams had an NHL shot...
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 22, 2017, 10:51:03 AM
Wasn't a big Ashton fan he would try to fight and always ended up bleeding profusely. A very punch-able nose apparently.

I blame Carlyle for that. He got into fights more frequently when it was clear he was fighting for a 4th line spot on team coached by a guy who liked to dress fighters on that line.

Yeah, I don't know if Ashton would have been a regular NHLer otherwise, but it's blatantly clear that he essentially tried to become a fighter to get into Randy's good books when it clearly wasn't something he was cut out for.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 22, 2017, 10:55:36 AM
Does Paul Ranger fit into this? I had pretty high hopes for his comeback. He didn't quite reach them but I thought that he was a pretty decent bottom pairing guy in his season here.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: herman on August 22, 2017, 11:09:15 AM
There's a pretty good list of baby Buds that didn't pan out, and then there is a much larger and more cringeworthy list of baby Buds that management shipped off too soon.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: RedLeaf on August 22, 2017, 11:11:53 AM
I really don't know why this thread made me think of Kyle Wellwood because he did go on to have a somewhat successful NHL career, just not with the Leafs. Maybe because he was sort of our fools gold of what we thought we had coming down the pipe back then. Its sort of a reminder of how lucky we really are now to be in this current position.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Arn on August 22, 2017, 11:17:00 AM
I really don't know why this thread made me think of Kyle Wellwood because he did go on to have a somewhat successful NHL career, just not with the Leafs. Maybe because he was sort of our fools gold of what we thought we had coming down the pipe back then. Its sort of a reminder of how lucky we really are now to be in this current position.

Steen and Stajan are another couple of probably similar to Wellwood. More so Steen I'd say.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: herman on August 22, 2017, 11:26:21 AM
I really wanted to see the Steen - Stajan - Wellwood line make it together.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: CarltonTheBear on August 22, 2017, 11:40:35 AM
I really don't know why this thread made me think of Kyle Wellwood because he did go on to have a somewhat successful NHL career, just not with the Leafs. Maybe because he was sort of our fools gold of what we thought we had coming down the pipe back then. Its sort of a reminder of how lucky we really are now to be in this current position.

I was actually really bummed when Wellwood left the NHL. He really transformed his game and became a reliable 3rd line player in his later NHL years, even on the defensive side of the game. If he was just a little bit bigger I'm sure somebody would have signed him and he could have kept his career going. He's only 34 now and has been out of the NHL for 4 seasons now.

Just out of curiosity, I decided to look up his Hero chart:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DH2DJycUAAE0pe0.jpg)
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 22, 2017, 11:46:35 AM

I feel like Wellwood is someone who probably would have had a really successful career if he'd been around 10 years later or 20 years earlier. He was just in exactly the wrong time for a small, creative player who was kind of a weird dude.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Bates on August 22, 2017, 11:48:40 AM
I was a STH in St. John's when Dempsey played there, I'm still shocked at how good he was in the minors but couldn't translate it to the NHL.  Chris Snell was another guy who kinda fell off the map after lighting it up in St. John's.

To redeem myself from my Harrison pick a teammate of his, Staffan Kronwall, was a guy I really thought would be able to play in the bigs.

And then from the "sort of had a NHL career post-Leafs" file is Nathan Dempsey.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Coco-puffs on August 22, 2017, 12:13:33 PM

I feel like Wellwood is someone who probably would have had a really successful career if he'd been around 10 years later or 20 years earlier. He was just in exactly the wrong time for a small, creative player who was kind of a weird dude.

20 years earlier, definitely.  10 years later, I don't know.  His approach to training was lax to put it mildly.  In today's NHL, only the upper tier of elite players can get away with being lax in training.  Furthermore, he was at his best on the power-play and he pretty much capitalized on that with the Leafs post-lockout (the first one).  The amount of power-plays have been declining since- although, I do think he'd be more effective in these new 4F1D schemes patrolling one of the side-boards.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 22, 2017, 12:58:33 PM
20 years earlier, definitely.  10 years later, I don't know.  His approach to training was lax to put it mildly.  In today's NHL, only the upper tier of elite players can get away with being lax in training.

In a way, that's sort of my point. When he came up there was still the thought that a guy who was a little slow but offensively gifted could play an important role on a team because of their PP acumen. The speed of the post-lockout game caught up to him and he lost some of that effectiveness in a way that a lot of guys did.

If he was around now, I think his training habits are an issue that get addressed earlier on and are either dealt with or he doesn't even get out of the AHL.
Title: Re: Juuuust didn't quite make it
Post by: Dappleganger on August 22, 2017, 04:42:44 PM
Is it too soon to put Josh Leivo on the list (j/k)? How bout Matt Frattin?