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Other Hockey News & Views => General NHL News & Views => NHL Transactions => Topic started by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 24, 2017, 11:24:54 AM

Title: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 24, 2017, 11:24:54 AM
Per Lebrun

To Isles
1st
2nd
2nd

To CGY
Hamonic
4th
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Frank E on June 24, 2017, 11:43:39 AM
Damn.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: princedpw on June 24, 2017, 12:07:11 PM
Damn.

Would you have wanted the leafs to trade slightly more than that for Hamonic?  eg, straight-up 1st,2nd,2nd for him?

It would be interesting to do a tmlfans poll on that. 

I don't think I would want to do 1st, 2nd, 2nd for Hamonic.  I'm not sure Hamonic is quite good enough for that outlay (not that I really know).  I think another defenseman will become available and/or we'll need those picks for cost-controlled players 3 years from now.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Frank E on June 24, 2017, 12:18:02 PM
Damn.

Would you have wanted the leafs to trade slightly more than that for Hamonic?  eg, straight-up 1st,2nd,2nd for him?

It would be interesting to do a tmlfans poll on that. 

I don't think I would want to do 1st, 2nd, 2nd for Hamonic.  I'm not sure Hamonic is quite good enough for that outlay (not that I really know).  I think another defenseman will become available and/or we'll need those picks for cost-controlled players 3 years from now.

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating 1st round pick plus 2 2nds going the other way for Hamonic.  But a deal with JVR being the centerpiece, I'm good with. 

He's only got one year to go on this deal, and I was advocating trading him earlier this season while his production was good, he was healthy, and he had some affordable term left on his deal that would lead me to think he was reasonably valuable as a trade centerpiece.

I'm more looking at the Chicagos and Pittsburghs of the league, and noticing that they trade out significant players every year to maintain their consistent competitiveness while remaining cap compliant.  Following this template, complementary pieces that surround your core are likely to be changed up a fair bit over the coming years, or at least they should be.  The idea is to trade-out pieces while they're still valuable, and before they become expensive.

So I think we should be turning JVR and Bozak into different currency ASAP, and I think Hamonic would very much fill a need on this team right now.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 24, 2017, 12:20:37 PM

Or, if NYI only wants draft picks, you trade a 1st, 2nd and 2nd for him and then use JVR and/or Bozak to try and recoup some of those picks elsewhere.

I don't know if Hamonic is necessarily the guy you want but there's a limited number of top 4 defensemen who are going to move this year and if you keep balking at their price you're going to be left as the guy without the chair.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Deebo on June 24, 2017, 12:28:27 PM
NYI could have preferred to move him to the west.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Frank E on June 24, 2017, 12:30:22 PM

Or, if NYI only wants draft picks, you trade a 1st, 2nd and 2nd for him and then use JVR and/or Bozak to try and recoup some of those picks elsewhere.

I don't know if Hamonic is necessarily the guy you want but there's a limited number of top 4 defensemen who are going to move this year and if you keep balking at their price you're going to be left as the guy without the chair.

Sure, same thing, as long as the picks are recouped at this point of the process. 

The Leafs aren't at the same point Calgary is at, at least I don't think they are yet.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on June 24, 2017, 12:32:35 PM
NYI could have preferred to move him to the west.

Good point, also the origin of this deal stems from Hamonic requesting a trade to Western Canada early last season for family reasons.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Frank E on June 24, 2017, 12:36:03 PM
NYI could have preferred to move him to the west.

Good point, also the origin of this deal stems from Hamonic requesting a trade to Western Canada early last season for family reasons.

Yeah, I forgot about that.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 24, 2017, 12:46:51 PM
NYI could have preferred to move him to the west.

That seems like a bit of a stretch. It's not like anyone out there would really be sweating getting burned by Travis Hamonic. If the reports were true and the Leafs were really in those discussions it seems likely that moving him to Toronto was ok both with the Islanders and Hamonic.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Deebo on June 24, 2017, 12:55:26 PM
The Isles beat writer seemed to think that was thier preference yesterday:

Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: princedpw on June 24, 2017, 01:36:18 PM
Our offense will suffer if we trade JVR, but I agree that it is something we should do if we can get a defenseman out of it.  We'll push Leivo into his spot.  Trading Bozak is tougher as even with him, we are so thin at the moment that a single center injury puts us in a tough spot.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Bates on June 24, 2017, 04:09:19 PM
I think it has more with giving the player what he wants rather than fear of playing against him.  He asked for a trade out West last year for Family reasons. 
NYI could have preferred to move him to the west.

That seems like a bit of a stretch. It's not like anyone out there would really be sweating getting burned by Travis Hamonic. If the reports were true and the Leafs were really in those discussions it seems likely that moving him to Toronto was ok both with the Islanders and Hamonic.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 24, 2017, 05:38:05 PM
Giordano-Hamilton / Brodie-Hamonic is one heck of a top-4 defence group. I mean it's no Nashville but it's gotta be right in that group after them.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: disco on June 24, 2017, 07:23:55 PM
Damn.

Would you have wanted the leafs to trade slightly more than that for Hamonic?  eg, straight-up 1st,2nd,2nd for him?

It would be interesting to do a tmlfans poll on that. 

I don't think I would want to do 1st, 2nd, 2nd for Hamonic.  I'm not sure Hamonic is quite good enough for that outlay (not that I really know).  I think another defenseman will become available and/or we'll need those picks for cost-controlled players 3 years from now.

Agreed. Keep the picks and keep drafting D, better in the long run. The Big Three are fricking 19, 19 and 20.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 24, 2017, 09:29:13 PM
I think it has more with giving the player what he wants rather than fear of playing against him.  He asked for a trade out West last year for Family reasons.

First off, it wasn't "last year". He made the request in November of 2015. So I don't buy that the guy asks out, the team makes him wait two years and then their primary focus is going to be on what he wants.

But second, like I said, I don't think the Leafs would have pursued this to the extent that we were going to start hearing about potential players involved if they didn't have a general sense that Hamonic would be alright with coming here.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Captain Canuck on June 24, 2017, 09:53:31 PM
Glad that Hamonic got his wish to be traded to a team closer to home.
If you haven't seen it, watch the E60 segment "In the Name of the Father".
You can't help but pull for Travis after you've seen it.
Winnipeg would have been perfect, but Calgary will be the next best thing for him.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Bates on June 25, 2017, 04:50:10 AM
I guess that other 7 months is a big deal hey?  I meant as in last season.  Of course the Islanders would like best return but I genuinely think they preferred to get best return from a place that the player wanted to go to and that is Western Canada.  I don't recall saying Hamonic didn't want to come here, just tgat his first choice was West.  As I'm sure he would have picked Winnipeg over Calgary but didn't get that chance.
I think it has more with giving the player what he wants rather than fear of playing against him.  He asked for a trade out West last year for Family reasons.

First off, it wasn't "last year". He made the request in November of 2015. So I don't buy that the guy asks out, the team makes him wait two years and then their primary focus is going to be on what he wants.

But second, like I said, I don't think the Leafs would have pursued this to the extent that we were going to start hearing about potential players involved if they didn't have a general sense that Hamonic would be alright with coming here.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 25, 2017, 06:58:11 AM
I guess that other 7 months is a big deal hey?

When it happened is actually pretty significant because a lot of things can happen in that time span. Like, for instance, Hamonic's desire to be closer to home(as opposed to just "West) might have gone away slightly as he Got more involved in the local community or just the situation changed. In fact, it might have changed to the point where in the time since then and now Hamonic might have actually rescinded his trade request:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/report-travis-hamonic-rescinds-trade-request-islanders/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/report-travis-hamonic-rescinds-trade-request-islanders/)

Of course that doesn't even get into the 3rd grade geography of the issue. Like I said, Hamonic wanted to be closer to home, not just a generic request to be flung westward and practically, in terms of distance to Winnipeg, there is no real difference between Toronto and Calgary in that respect.

So in looking at this trade we have these two options:

1) New York liked what Calgary was offering more than Toronto

2) In order to sort-of fulfill a 2 year old trade request that had since been rescinded, the Islanders went with the second best offer they got in order to give Hamonic a marginally shorter flight home from where they traded him than Toronto.

Think horses, not zebras.

Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Bates on June 25, 2017, 01:14:13 PM
He rescinded trade request as you know but the request was always to Western Canada.  I doubt he wouldn't still want Western Canada but previous reason seems to have played itself out.  You however are perfectly ok to spin it whatever wrong way you want. 

https://www.nhl.com/news/hamonic-requests-trade-from-islanders-report/c-788613

I guess that other 7 months is a big deal hey?

When it happened is actually pretty significant because a lot of things can happen in that time span. Like, for instance, Hamonic's desire to be closer to home(as opposed to just "West) might have gone away slightly as he Got more involved in the local community or just the situation changed. In fact, it might have changed to the point where in the time since then and now Hamonic might have actually rescinded his trade request:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/report-travis-hamonic-rescinds-trade-request-islanders/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/report-travis-hamonic-rescinds-trade-request-islanders/)

Of course that doesn't even get into the 3rd grade geography of the issue. Like I said, Hamonic wanted to be closer to home, not just a generic request to be flung westward and practically, in terms of distance to Winnipeg, there is no real difference between Toronto and Calgary in that respect.

So in looking at this trade we have these two options:

1) New York liked what Calgary was offering more than Toronto

2) In order to sort-of fulfill a 2 year old trade request that had since been rescinded, the Islanders went with the second best offer they got in order to give Hamonic a marginally shorter flight home from where they traded him than Toronto.

Think horses, not zebras.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2017, 08:16:58 AM
He rescinded trade request as you know but the request was always to Western Canada.  I doubt he wouldn't still want Western Canada but previous reason seems to have played itself out.  You however are perfectly ok to spin it whatever wrong way you want. 

https://www.nhl.com/news/hamonic-requests-trade-from-islanders-report/c-788613

Only you could possibly think of the measured distance between two cities as "spin".
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 26, 2017, 09:46:23 AM
The rumoured situation with Toronto's offer was that it was JVR and a 2018 1st rounder, and the deal fell apart because JVR wouldn't waive his NTC and/or agree to talk about an extension with the Islanders. I'd make the case that that's a better offer than what they got from Calgary.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2017, 10:22:48 AM
The rumoured situation with Toronto's offer was that it was JVR and a 2018 1st rounder, and the deal fell apart because JVR wouldn't waive his NTC and/or agree to talk about an extension with the Islanders. I'd make the case that that's a better offer than what they got from Calgary.

Wasn't the idea there that it wouldn't just be Hamonic coming back though?
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Zee on June 26, 2017, 10:24:29 AM
The rumoured situation with Toronto's offer was that it was JVR and a 2018 1st rounder, and the deal fell apart because JVR wouldn't waive his NTC and/or agree to talk about an extension with the Islanders. I'd make the case that that's a better offer than what they got from Calgary.

This morning on the radio, Dreger said he doesn't believe the Leafs offered a first round pick. 
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: cabber24 on June 26, 2017, 10:25:27 AM
The rumoured situation with Toronto's offer was that it was JVR and a 2018 1st rounder, and the deal fell apart because JVR wouldn't waive his NTC and/or agree to talk about an extension with the Islanders. I'd make the case that that's a better offer than what they got from Calgary.
I don't really get Toronto's interest in a player who has already stated their desire to be on the west coast? I have a hard time believing the Leafs were an option or even pursuing him. Why trade for someone who doesn't want to be there?
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 26, 2017, 10:34:20 AM
Wasn't the idea there that it wouldn't just be Hamonic coming back though?

That reported offer was originally from Isles beat reporter Arthur Staple. All he said was JVR and a 2018 1st for Hamonic. Didn't mention anything else. Simmons reported the same thing but it's hard to tell if that came from his own sources or if he was just parroting what Staples wrote. I don't recall hearing about anything extra but I might have missed it.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2017, 10:36:16 AM
Wasn't the idea there that it wouldn't just be Hamonic coming back though?

That reported offer was originally from Isles beat reporter Arthur Staple. All he said was JVR and a 2018 1st for Hamonic. Didn't mention anything else. Simmons reported the same thing but it's hard to tell if that came from his own sources or if he was just parroting what Staples wrote. I don't recall hearing about anything extra but I might have missed it.

At the draft when Friedman first reported on Hamonic potentially being moved to Toronto he said it was as part of a "larger deal".
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2017, 10:38:27 AM
The rumoured situation with Toronto's offer was that it was JVR and a 2018 1st rounder, and the deal fell apart because JVR wouldn't waive his NTC and/or agree to talk about an extension with the Islanders. I'd make the case that that's a better offer than what they got from Calgary.
I don't really get Toronto's interest in a player who has already stated their desire to be on the west coast? I have a hard time believing the Leafs were an option or even pursuing him. Why trade for someone who doesn't want to be there?

He didn't say he wanted to be on the West Coast and, regardless, he rescinded his trade request. He was not traded because he wanted out of New York.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 26, 2017, 10:41:10 AM
At the draft when Friedman first reported on Hamonic potentially being moved to Toronto he said it was as part of a "larger deal".

Ah, ok, I found this tweet from Staple on that:

Quote
Arthur Staple‏ @StapeNewsday
From @FriedgeHNIC, #Isles discussing "bigger" deal than just futures with TOR, 2 pick/prospect from CGY. TOR has 59th pick, CGY no 2nd.

So he interpreted that comment as the deal being larger than just draft picks, which is originally what Snow was after.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 26, 2017, 10:51:22 AM
He didn't say he wanted to be on the West Coast and, regardless, he rescinded his trade request. He was not traded because he wanted out of New York.

The other team that the Islanders were pushing Hamonic on was Colorado. That's not exactly "Western Canada" either. I think it's pretty safe to say his trade request had little-to-nothing to do with this.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Bates on June 26, 2017, 11:23:17 AM
Yeah it's a huge spin to suggest that a team trading a player to one of the teams he asked to be traded to before last season is actually trying to do right by the player???  I have never suggested they would take a lessor deal but I think they would favor a similar offer from Western Canada. 
He rescinded trade request as you know but the request was always to Western Canada.  I doubt he wouldn't still want Western Canada but previous reason seems to have played itself out.  You however are perfectly ok to spin it whatever wrong way you want. 

https://www.nhl.com/news/hamonic-requests-trade-from-islanders-report/c-788613

Only you could possibly think of the measured distance between two cities as "spin".
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2017, 11:39:16 AM
Yeah it's a huge spin to suggest that a team trading a player to one of the teams he asked to be traded to before last season is actually trying to do right by the player???  I have never suggested they would take a lessor deal but I think they would favor a similar offer from Western Canada.

First off, you don't know what teams he asked to be traded to. You have Friedman's report and while Friedman's good, one report from him isn't a hard and cold fact. The story coming out of Hamonic's trade request was that he wanted to be closer to home. If that is the case why would he prefer Vancouver to Toronto when, and I cannot take credit for this fact, Toronto is closer to Winnipeg than Vancouver is. Just for a second put aside your stubbornness and think about things logically for once.

But secondly, why would that be the case if the trade offer and presumably the reason behind it were no longer relevant? Hamonic was not requesting a trade any more. Yeah, sure, you "knew" about that when you made your first post. Honestly, it's just bananas how desperate you seem to connect this trade to a two year old now rescinded trade request.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: OldTimeHockey on June 26, 2017, 06:21:29 PM
I can't believe you guys are arguing about this. He's in Calgary. Calgary paid an awful lot. The end.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 26, 2017, 06:25:15 PM
I can't believe you guys are arguing about this. He's in Calgary. Calgary paid an awful lot. The end.

I don't know what to tell you. "Calgary offered a better deal" should not have been a controversial statement.
Title: Re: Hamonic to CGY
Post by: Deebo on June 26, 2017, 06:30:55 PM
Wasn't the idea there that it wouldn't just be Hamonic coming back though?

That reported offer was originally from Isles beat reporter Arthur Staple. All he said was JVR and a 2018 1st for Hamonic. Didn't mention anything else. Simmons reported the same thing but it's hard to tell if that came from his own sources or if he was just parroting what Staples wrote. I don't recall hearing about anything extra but I might have missed it.

I think we can be pretty sure it was Simmons parroting Staples, I mean its Simmons.