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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Marlies & Prospect Talk => Topic started by: Significantly Insignificant on November 27, 2016, 04:58:45 AM

Title: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 27, 2016, 04:58:45 AM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-suspend-goaltender-garret-sparks-indefinitely/
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 27, 2016, 05:10:17 AM
Some context.

Quote
According to users in a Facebook goalie group for which Sparks is an administrator, members of the forum were mocking a disabled person and Sparks came to that person’s defence by asking one of those in the forum where he lived and writing, “I want to go to open hockey with you, drag you out to center ice and beat you into a [expletive] pulp until you can’t run that [expletive] little mouth of yours. God, you sound like a 13-year-old girl.”

When another member reprimanded Sparks for insulting women, he apologized and continued, “Girls don’t even whine as much as this guy does.”

Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: L K on November 27, 2016, 08:23:58 AM
1) It was a closed group so this certainly wasn't a public discussion
2) If this is all that he said, that's certainly pretty mild to justify an indefinite suspension

It's certainly not PC appropriate language but that seems to be a bit over the top to be described as sexist language.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 27, 2016, 08:57:45 AM

In a situation like this it's a fair bet he got suspended less because of what he said and more that as a representative of the Leafs they won't want him to be out there saying anything that isn't entirely PR approved.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Bullfrog on November 27, 2016, 11:29:41 AM
1) It was a closed group so this certainly wasn't a public discussion
2) If this is all that he said, that's certainly pretty mild to justify an indefinite suspension

It's certainly not PC appropriate language but that seems to be a bit over the top to be described as sexist language.

Agreed on your two points. But I disagree on the your last statement. It's these "mild" statements that cumulatively lead to a sexist society.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Highlander on November 27, 2016, 11:39:46 AM
You would thing the Leaf protocols would be heavily established, so Sparks goes overboard (in regards to protocol) and gets suspended. Now if he was really belittiling a person who was being cruel to disabled persons, then I would say the suspension should just be a slap on the wrist. 
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: L K on November 27, 2016, 01:26:30 PM
1) It was a closed group so this certainly wasn't a public discussion
2) If this is all that he said, that's certainly pretty mild to justify an indefinite suspension

It's certainly not PC appropriate language but that seems to be a bit over the top to be described as sexist language.

Agreed on your two points. But I disagree on the your last statement. It's these "mild" statements that cumulatively lead to a sexist society.

That's fair. 
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 27, 2016, 03:50:23 PM
You would thing the Leaf protocols would be heavily established, so Sparks goes overboard (in regards to protocol) and gets suspended. Now if he was really belittiling a person who was being cruel to disabled persons, then I would say the suspension should just be a slap on the wrist.

I don't see why what the other person said/did matters here. No matter how noble the aim if Sparks had said something a little racist or homophobic in defense of a disabled person nobody would think that made it ok.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: bustaheims on November 27, 2016, 05:16:18 PM
Agreed on your two points. But I disagree on the your last statement. It's these "mild" statements that cumulatively lead to a sexist society.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: mr grieves on November 27, 2016, 05:41:55 PM
You would thing the Leaf protocols would be heavily established, so Sparks goes overboard (in regards to protocol) and gets suspended. Now if he was really belittiling a person who was being cruel to disabled persons, then I would say the suspension should just be a slap on the wrist.

I don't see why what the other person said/did matters here. No matter how noble the aim if Sparks had said something a little racist or homophobic in defense of a disabled person nobody would think that made it ok.

Well, "when they go low, we go high" isn't good for anything but keeping HR happy and losing presidential elections. To belittle and silence a bully, you often have to get down on their level, as our better stand-up comedians have long understood.

Of course, he did violate team policy, so I'm not disputing the suspension.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Bill_Berg on November 27, 2016, 06:00:23 PM
So the little girl comment was worse than the beat you to a pulp comment?
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 27, 2016, 06:13:17 PM
Well, "when they go low, we go high" isn't good for anything but keeping HR happy and losing presidential elections. To belittle and silence a bully, you often have to get down on their level, as our better stand-up comedians have long understood.

I think you may be vastly overestimating the effect any of those comedians had on actually silencing anyone.

Regardless, you can be all manner of "low" without being racist, sexist or homophobic as those same Comedians would know.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: McGarnagle on November 27, 2016, 08:19:00 PM
Didn't Reilly effectively do the same thing last year? I don't recall a suspension.

http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/leafs-morgan-rielly-apologizes-after-girl-comment-1.2965604
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 27, 2016, 08:34:43 PM
Didn't Reilly effectively do the same thing last year? I don't recall a suspension.

Have to figure someone getting in trouble for it before would compound things, not excuse them.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: McGarnagle on November 27, 2016, 08:46:38 PM
Didn't Reilly effectively do the same thing last year? I don't recall a suspension.

Have to figure someone getting in trouble for it before would compound things, not excuse them.

If only the player safety department thought the same way.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Coco-puffs on November 28, 2016, 10:16:08 AM
So the little girl comment was worse than the beat you to a pulp comment?

From my perspective, asking Sparks to apologize for the sexist remarks would have been sufficient- just like Reilly last year.  Threatening to hurt someone online is what put this over the top IMO and it isn't being discussed as much as I'd expect.  I think it was worse than the sexist comments, if only by a little.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Highlander on November 28, 2016, 10:49:13 AM
didnt hear about a sexist comment, not right at all. 
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Zee on November 28, 2016, 10:51:15 AM
I think Sparks's comment would have been fine if he had just told the guy to stop acting like a 13 year old.  Because the original poster was acting childish and immature with his comments.  Leave the "girl" part out and it's fine.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Coco-puffs on November 28, 2016, 10:59:22 AM
I think Sparks's comment would have been fine if he had just told the guy to stop acting like a 13 year old.  Because the original poster was acting childish and immature with his comments.  Leave the "girl" part out and it's fine.

I don't think threatening to beat the person into a pulp is "fine". 
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Zee on November 28, 2016, 11:13:57 AM
I think Sparks's comment would have been fine if he had just told the guy to stop acting like a 13 year old.  Because the original poster was acting childish and immature with his comments.  Leave the "girl" part out and it's fine.

I don't think threatening to beat the person into a pulp is "fine".

Whatever, if the guy was making disparaging remarks about disabled people as the reports indicate,  I have no issue with Sparks playing internet tough guy on him.   
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: TML fan on November 28, 2016, 11:16:52 AM
This is brand protection for the Leafs. They know he'll win his grievance hearing and get all his money back, but it makes the Leafs look like the good guys.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Zee on November 28, 2016, 11:19:19 AM
This is brand protection for the Leafs. They know he'll win his grievance hearing and get all his money back, but it makes the Leafs look like the good guys.

Exactly, the new world is to ignore idiots online, don't say anything that will put you in a bad light.  The fact that Sparks confronted the guy online shows that he actually has a heart and doesn't stand for people like that, he just has to realize there are consequences from your employer when you post things the way he did. 
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Coco-puffs on November 28, 2016, 11:32:15 AM
I think Sparks's comment would have been fine if he had just told the guy to stop acting like a 13 year old.  Because the original poster was acting childish and immature with his comments.  Leave the "girl" part out and it's fine.

I don't think threatening to beat the person into a pulp is "fine".

Whatever, if the guy was making disparaging remarks about disabled people as the reports indicate,  I have no issue with Sparks playing internet tough guy on him.

Just to clarify, I *personally* like that Sparks threatened the puke and stood up for the physically-challenged person.  However, it wasn't fine from the perspective of representing an NHL/AHL organization. 
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: sneakyray on November 30, 2016, 08:11:53 AM
if he was an administrator for this group couldn't he just have banned the person and put out a message that this kind of behaviour is not tolerated?

Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: louisstamos on November 30, 2016, 09:38:42 AM
if he was an administrator for this group couldn't he just have banned the person and put out a message that this kind of behaviour is not tolerated?

That's probably exactly what the Leafs' argument is.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: sneakyray on November 30, 2016, 10:04:48 AM
if he was an administrator for this group couldn't he just have banned the person and put out a message that this kind of behaviour is not tolerated?

That's probably exactly what the Leafs' argument is.

my point is the argument as to whats worse the threat or the sexist comment...the whole thing shouldn't have happened
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Highlander on January 12, 2017, 11:54:37 AM
Is Sparks getting any playing time at all. Have they given up on him?
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: herman on January 12, 2017, 12:38:56 PM
Is Sparks getting any playing time at all. Have they given up on him?

A quick Google shows his first game back from the suspension was Dec 3.
He had played 4 games up until the incident (3-1), and has played 6 games since (5-5). Based on Lou's interview about Bibeau, it sounds like Sparks is on a slightly later track than Bibeau.

Depth chart order would be something like:
Andersen
McElhinney - no future
Bibeau
Sparks
Kaskisuo
Woll
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Zee on January 12, 2017, 01:01:19 PM
Is Sparks getting any playing time at all. Have they given up on him?

A quick Google shows his first game back from the suspension was Dec 3.
He had played 4 games up until the incident (3-1), and has played 6 games since (5-5). Based on Lou's interview about Bibeau, it sounds like Sparks is on a slightly later track than Bibeau.

Depth chart order would be something like:
Andersen
McElhinney - no future
Bibeau
Sparks
Kaskisuo
Woll

I forgot about Kaskisuo, I remember reading some stuff about him that he was realistically 3-4 years away if he makes it at all.  I guess by that time Leafs will also have a better read on Woll, given that he'll be 22-23.  Lines up with the end of Andersen's contract, so hopefully somebody emerges as a future goaltender.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on January 12, 2017, 01:16:30 PM
Sparks was the teams best player last night.

Pitched a shutout recently too.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: CarltonTheBear on January 12, 2017, 01:53:33 PM
Sparks was the teams best player last night.

Pitched a shutout recently too.

I don't care much for either goalie but Sparks' stats this season are considerably better than Bibeau's (albeit in less games). They were better last year too, but again in less games. With the goalie situation with the Leafs and Marlies now a lot clearer I'd like to see Sparks start to get a larger share of the starts for the Marlies in the 2nd half.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: herman on January 12, 2017, 02:34:49 PM
Stats wise: Sparks > Bibeau
Goalie form: Bibeau > Sparks

To me, they're both jockeying to be backups at best. Woll is the Dubas of the goalie corps.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on January 12, 2017, 02:49:12 PM
Bibeau's micro adjustments are an interesting wrinkle, as much as you'd look at the two and peg Bibeau as the more technically sound, his constant micro skating adjustments seem to leave him facing shots without being "set" as much as he could be.
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: herman on January 12, 2017, 02:54:54 PM
Bibeau's micro adjustments are an interesting wrinkle, as much as you'd look at the two and peg Bibeau as the more technically sound, his constant micro skating adjustments seem to leave him facing shots without being "set" as much as he could be.

It's probably what really hamstrings him every time there is even a minor scramble in front of him.

That being said, the micro-adjustment habit is between the ears and can eventually be coached out.

Sparks seems to be more reactionary (a la Reimer).
Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on January 12, 2017, 02:59:45 PM
Sparks I'd put closer to a Quick purely in terms of style, it's just balls out throw everything at it to make the save.

Hopefully one of them can figure it out this year.

Title: Re: Sparks Suspended
Post by: Highlander on January 12, 2017, 04:56:49 PM
Nice thing is we probably have two more years to see if one or both of them pan out