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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: LuncheonMeat on October 27, 2016, 02:14:43 PM

Title: Mitch Marner
Post by: LuncheonMeat on October 27, 2016, 02:14:43 PM
I figured he deserved his own thread. Nice article about MM at MLHS:

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/10/27/how-mitch-marner-shatters-the-size-myth/

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 27, 2016, 02:25:25 PM
I figured he deserved his own thread. Nice article about MM at MLHS:

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/10/27/how-mitch-marner-shatters-the-size-myth/

I was thinking the same thing.

Also: Caption contest!

(https://46wvda23y0nl13db2j3bl1yx-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/mitchmarne-flying-1068x758.jpg)
Make haste to the backcheck, my invisible steed! We must not let the foul Bruin a chance to claim the puck!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: TBLeafer on October 27, 2016, 02:32:53 PM
Just a little extra NOS this time.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 27, 2016, 02:35:51 PM
Meanwhile in Arizona, Dylan Strome is about to be a healthy scratch for his 3rd straight game: https://thebloggerstribune.com/2016/10/26/dylan-strome-hes-just-not-ready/
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: McGarnagle on October 27, 2016, 02:41:09 PM
Meanwhile in Arizona, Dylan Strome is about to be a healthy scratch for his 3rd straight game: https://thebloggerstribune.com/2016/10/26/dylan-strome-hes-just-not-ready/

Seems a little unnecessarily mean spirited. (the article, not your post)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zee on October 27, 2016, 02:42:42 PM
Meanwhile in Arizona, Dylan Strome is about to be a healthy scratch for his 3rd straight game: https://thebloggerstribune.com/2016/10/26/dylan-strome-hes-just-not-ready/

Still too early in both their careers to declare one a winner and one a bust.   Marner has 6 games played and Strome has 3.

It *appears* the Leafs have the better player right now, but who the hell knows?  We got lucky.  Had Arizona taken Marner at 3 the Leafs probably would have taken Strome at 4 (or maybe Hanifin)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 27, 2016, 02:44:05 PM
Seems a little unnecessarily mean spirited. (the article, not your post)

Really? The author is actually a pretty big Strome fan. He's mostly just preaching patience. If anything I thought my post was a little more mean spirited ;) (in a tongue-in-cheek way).
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: McGarnagle on October 27, 2016, 02:45:19 PM
Seems a little unnecessarily mean spirited. (the article, not your post)

Really? The author is actually a pretty big Strome fan. He's mostly just preaching patience. If anything I thought my post was a little more mean spirited ;) (in a tongue-in-cheek way).

Meh. I thought the trudeau meme was a bit much.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 27, 2016, 02:54:43 PM
Meanwhile in Arizona, Dylan Strome is about to be a healthy scratch for his 3rd straight game: https://thebloggerstribune.com/2016/10/26/dylan-strome-hes-just-not-ready/

(http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/photos/noah-hanifin-2016-979.jpg)
S'up guys. What are you all talking about?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on October 27, 2016, 03:46:43 PM

Marvelous Marner!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: mr grieves on October 27, 2016, 06:20:07 PM
He's looked less seasoned and sure of himself than Nylander or Matthews, but he also looks like he might be quickest and most agile of the three. The (relative) lack of production is, I think, both Bozak and JvR are often surprised by his passes -- whereas Nylander and Matthews are comparably skilled -- and also bad luck or figuring out the timing/space he has to get shots off. He's shooting 5.9% right now. Hopefully, when Nylander and Matthews slow down, Marner figures things out and heats up for a bit...
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: No.92 on October 27, 2016, 07:50:07 PM
He's looked less seasoned and sure of himself than Nylander or Matthews, but he also looks like he might be quickest and most agile of the three. The (relative) lack of production is, I think, both Bozak and JvR are often surprised by his passes -- whereas Nylander and Matthews are comparably skilled -- and also bad luck or figuring out the timing/space he has to get shots off. He's shooting 5.9% right now. Hopefully, when Nylander and Matthews slow down, Marner figures things out and heats up for a bit...

Pffftt!  Nylander and Matthews aren't slowing down.  They're both going to score 130pts in their rookie seasons. 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on October 27, 2016, 09:10:22 PM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: freer on October 27, 2016, 10:08:15 PM
Damn awesome... Enough said.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 27, 2016, 10:12:11 PM
Hopefully, when Nylander and Matthews slow down, Marner figures things out and heats up for a bit...

Ask, and ye shall receive.  Pray, and thy prayers shall not fall stillborn, yea, they shall fly straight to the ears of the LORD.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: sickbeast on October 29, 2016, 10:24:28 AM
The Leafs got really lucky with Mitch Marner.  It looks like Arizona picked the wrong guy.  Marner, Nylander, and Matthews are all incredible.  The Leafs have drafted incredibly well and those three guys are going to give the team an amazing core going forward.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: azzurri63 on October 29, 2016, 11:05:53 AM
Seriously everyone let's not get too carried away. We are 7 games into the season and we are writing off Strome and Marner is another saviour. I for one was happy with the pick and extremely happy with Mitch's play but it's way too early to determine who got the better player. No different than the media with the Auston Matthews and Patrick Laine comparisons. We are 2 weeks into the season and I'm already tired of listening to Paul Romaniuk and the rest of the TSN panel. When you watch any of these players they all have their flaws and all have their strengths. I for one had mixed feelings as far as what the Leafs would do with Mitch. I think he definitely should have stayed with the big club but only for the reason that there was nothing else for him to accomplish in the OHL. Watching him play in the World Juniors there were times he looked good but at others non existent. I think that boils down to his only flaw and the only reason there was talk about his NHL future. That flaw being his size. Although I think too much was made about it I compare him to smaller players like Kane and Gaudreau and the talent is there but for some reason Mitch looks he is easier to knock off the puck than the other 2. Again it's only 7 games into the season. I'm glad the kid is with the big club and things will only get better for him as he hopefully grows a tad more and puts on some more weight. The sky's the limit with Mitch and with the other 2 the future looks bright up front for the Leafs. I think Bracco will be another stud for us as well. I haven't seen Strome play this year but give it time he will be a solid NHL'er down the road.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Highlander on October 29, 2016, 11:19:15 AM
Good point, however Mitch is only 19, each year he will continue to pack muscle onto his frame and fill out the sparrow cage, he may not grow taller but all boys do fill out when they move into a man's body, that should help.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bullfrog on October 29, 2016, 12:58:14 PM
That's absolutely not guaranteed. 170 lb is a "man's size" already.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 29, 2016, 01:02:30 PM
That's absolutely not guaranteed. 170 lb is a "man's size" already.

I agree in a sense that not everyone just fills out into the 200's in their mid-twenties.

Marner though is 6ft tall and has access to the best sports nutrition and science experts who will absolutely help him gain mass over the course of his ELC.

I'd be extremely surprised if Marner isn't 15-20 lbs of muscle heavier by the end of his ELC.

Basically while it might not happen naturally for him, there is no reason for him not to continue to get stronger as a professional athlete.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on October 29, 2016, 05:40:48 PM
The Leafs got really lucky with Mitch Marner.  It looks like Arizona picked the wrong guy.  Marner, Nylander, and Matthews are all incredible.  The Leafs have drafted incredibly well and those three guys are going to give the team an amazing core going forward.

Word is Mark Hunter fought hard for it as Babs wanted a defenceman at 4 in that draft. Things got a little heated on the floor. LL mediated and in the end let Mark do his job. Good decision by Lou.

The League is now about fast and skill, fast and skill. Size optional. Hunter knew it and we're reaping the results!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on October 29, 2016, 05:48:13 PM
The Leafs got really lucky with Mitch Marner.  It looks like Arizona picked the wrong guy.  Marner, Nylander, and Matthews are all incredible.  The Leafs have drafted incredibly well and those three guys are going to give the team an amazing core going forward.

Word is Mark Hunter fought hard for it as Babs wanted a defenceman at 4 in that draft. Things got a little heated on the floor. LL mediated and in the end let Mark do his job. Good decision by Lou.

The League is now about fast and skill, fast and skill. Size optional. Hunter knew it and we're reaping the results!

I wonder if the decision would have been different if they had already drafted Matthews the year before. With Matthews and Nylander in the mix, I think Babcock would have had a better chance at convincing Lou to select  his D man.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Frank E on October 29, 2016, 06:05:26 PM
The Leafs got really lucky with Mitch Marner.  It looks like Arizona picked the wrong guy.  Marner, Nylander, and Matthews are all incredible.  The Leafs have drafted incredibly well and those three guys are going to give the team an amazing core going forward.

Word is Mark Hunter fought hard for it as Babs wanted a defenceman at 4 in that draft. Things got a little heated on the floor. LL mediated and in the end let Mark do his job. Good decision by Lou.

The League is now about fast and skill, fast and skill. Size optional. Hunter knew it and we're reaping the results!

The most interesting fact about that story is that LL had to do that from the Devils table, since he was still with NJ at the time Marner was drafted.  Amazing really.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on October 29, 2016, 06:14:56 PM
The Leafs got really lucky with Mitch Marner.  It looks like Arizona picked the wrong guy.  Marner, Nylander, and Matthews are all incredible.  The Leafs have drafted incredibly well and those three guys are going to give the team an amazing core going forward.

Word is Mark Hunter fought hard for it as Babs wanted a defenceman at 4 in that draft. Things got a little heated on the floor. LL mediated and in the end let Mark do his job. Good decision by Lou.

The League is now about fast and skill, fast and skill. Size optional. Hunter knew it and we're reaping the results!

The most interesting fact about that story is that LL had to do that from the Devils table, since he was still with NJ at the time Marner was drafted.  Amazing really.

haha got me! It was John Shannon yesterday on Prime Time. He must've subbed in Lou for Shanny accidentally. Good on Shanny then.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 29, 2016, 07:40:41 PM

Being excited about Marner is eminently reasonable given what he's shown. Saying he was the right pick vs. Hanafin or Strome is spiking the ball on the 5 yard line.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: No.92 on October 31, 2016, 03:27:41 AM
The Leafs got really lucky with Mitch Marner.  It looks like Arizona picked the wrong guy.  Marner, Nylander, and Matthews are all incredible.  The Leafs have drafted incredibly well and those three guys are going to give the team an amazing core going forward.

Word is Mark Hunter fought hard for it as Babs wanted a defenceman at 4 in that draft. Things got a little heated on the floor. LL mediated and in the end let Mark do his job. Good decision by Lou.

The League is now about fast and skill, fast and skill. Size optional. Hunter knew it and we're reaping the results!

The most interesting fact about that story is that LL had to do that from the Devils table, since he was still with NJ at the time Marner was drafted.  Amazing really.

LOL.  I love how people tell stories as if it were fact.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on October 31, 2016, 05:33:35 PM
The Leafs got really lucky with Mitch Marner.  It looks like Arizona picked the wrong guy.  Marner, Nylander, and Matthews are all incredible.  The Leafs have drafted incredibly well and those three guys are going to give the team an amazing core going forward.

Word is Mark Hunter fought hard for it as Babs wanted a defenceman at 4 in that draft. Things got a little heated on the floor. LL mediated and in the end let Mark do his job. Good decision by Lou.

The League is now about fast and skill, fast and skill. Size optional. Hunter knew it and we're reaping the results!

The most interesting fact about that story is that LL had to do that from the Devils table, since he was still with NJ at the time Marner was drafted.  Amazing really.

LOL.  I love how people tell stories as if it were fact.


I didn't. I said 'word is' and it was Shannon on the previous PTS. I just felt it was an interesting tidbit at the time because I remember Marner at 4 raised some eybrows and Hunter was right. Shannon knowing there was a semi-heated debate on the floor at the time is not huge story. Perhaps he exaggerated a little though. The context at the time and still continues today is the kind of 5-headed brain-trust with Babs, Lou, Shanny, Mark and Kyle. I guess Shannon forgot that LL arrived shortly thereafter.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on October 31, 2016, 05:47:14 PM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: louisstamos on October 31, 2016, 06:21:19 PM
Mitch Marner is at the 9 game point now.  Pension Plan Puppets made a thorough examination on whether or not to send him back to junior this season:

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/10/31/13477104/should-the-toronto-maple-leafs-send-mitch-marner-back-to-the-london-knights
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Kaberle15 on October 31, 2016, 06:32:40 PM
Mitch Marner is at the 9 game point now.  Pension Plan Puppets made a thorough examination on whether or not to send him back to junior this season:

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/10/31/13477104/should-the-toronto-maple-leafs-send-mitch-marner-back-to-the-london-knights

Just about right.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bullfrog on October 31, 2016, 07:31:24 PM
He makes a well-reasoned argument, that's for sure.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on October 31, 2016, 07:47:26 PM
An extremely well detailed analysis. 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: LuncheonMeat on October 31, 2016, 08:55:32 PM
He makes a well-reasoned argument, that's for sure.

I thought it was a little wordy.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 31, 2016, 08:56:55 PM
He makes a well-reasoned argument, that's for sure.

I thought it was a little wordy.

Me too. I thought long form journalism died in 2007?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Tigger on November 01, 2016, 05:48:56 AM
I'm glad the Leafs took Marner but I don't think Carolina is terribly upset with Hanifin.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on November 03, 2016, 09:57:55 PM
82 trying to make a move with the Marvelous One behind him... not smart  ;)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: TBLeafer on November 04, 2016, 09:34:32 AM
well, pass it to Phil was a thing...

Move it to Mitch!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Highlander on November 04, 2016, 03:35:09 PM
Move it on Marner
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 07, 2016, 11:18:21 AM
A good recap/analysis of some of Marner's highlight goals and assists so far this season:

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2016/11/7/13476422/nhl-maple-leafs-marner-matthews-goals-assists-calder-trophy-rookie-year

Quote
To recap, Mitch Marner is going to be a damn good player in this league for a very long time. It couldnt hurt him to add some size and get bigger as he ages. Regardless, he has already shown in the early stage of his NHL career that he does not lack the skills and hockey IQ needed to compete at this high of a level.

My personal guess hell be the next Nicklas Backstrom. Playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs, overshadowed by Auston Matthews, but still a remarkable and fantastic player. Backstrom is both of those things, and can be overshadowed by Alex Ovechkin.

I think that for casual NHL fans, and specifically those outside of Toronto that don't watch him night-in and night-out, Marner is going to be really underrated for many, many years.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: mr grieves on November 07, 2016, 11:30:28 AM
A good recap/analysis of some of Marner's highlight goals and assists so far this season:

http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2016/11/7/13476422/nhl-maple-leafs-marner-matthews-goals-assists-calder-trophy-rookie-year

Quote
To recap, Mitch Marner is going to be a damn good player in this league for a very long time. It couldnt hurt him to add some size and get bigger as he ages. Regardless, he has already shown in the early stage of his NHL career that he does not lack the skills and hockey IQ needed to compete at this high of a level.

My personal guess hell be the next Nicklas Backstrom. Playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs, overshadowed by Auston Matthews, but still a remarkable and fantastic player. Backstrom is both of those things, and can be overshadowed by Alex Ovechkin.

I think that for casual NHL fans, and specifically those outside of Toronto that don't watch him night-in and night-out, Marner is going to be really underrated for many, many years.

But I thought Nylander was looking like our Backstrom...?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 07, 2016, 11:33:00 AM
But I thought Nylander was looking like our Backstrom...?

We can have two Backstrom's!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 07, 2016, 11:39:19 AM
But I thought Nylander was looking like our Backstrom...?

We can have two Backstrom's!

The question is which one is our Nicklas Backstrom and which one is our Niklas Backstrom.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Highlander on November 07, 2016, 11:41:47 AM
But I thought Nylander was looking like our Backstrom...?

We can have two Backstrom's!

The question is which one is our Nicklas Backstrom and which one is our Niklas Backstrom.

The other one
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bullfrog on November 07, 2016, 11:50:07 AM
But I thought Nylander was looking like our Backstrom...?

We can have two Backstrom's!

The question is which one is our Nicklas Backstrom and which one is our Niklas Backstrom.

I think Marner has to be Nick and Nylander has to be Nik.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 14, 2016, 09:55:33 AM
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/11/14/13608674/the-magic-of-mitch-marner-breaking-down-the-enchanting-rookie-s-game

GIF-heavy breakdown of Marner's game vs the Penguins.

Like he was with London, Marner seems to know where everyone is on the ice. He's clearly being held back right now by Bozak and JvR.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on November 14, 2016, 10:04:59 AM
He's clearly being held back right now by Bozak and JvR.

What makes you think that?  Bozak and JvR are pretty darn good offensively.  The only way I see them holding him back is on the defensive end of things, where Marner seems to be the best of the three in his own end. 

If you ask me, that's always been the rub with Bozak and JvR- they just aren't good defensively.  Whether its Kessel or Marner, they (JvR and Bozak) compliment the star winger offensively but can become a bit of a shit-show in their own end.  I think the only reason the JBM line aren't as bad as the JBK was, is the other team is more often focused on Matthews now and the Kadri line draws the toughest assignment. 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Frank E on November 14, 2016, 10:31:20 AM
He's clearly being held back right now by Bozak and JvR.

What makes you think that?  Bozak and JvR are pretty darn good offensively.  The only way I see them holding him back is on the defensive end of things, where Marner seems to be the best of the three in his own end. 

If you ask me, that's always been the rub with Bozak and JvR- they just aren't good defensively.  Whether its Kessel or Marner, they (JvR and Bozak) compliment the star winger offensively but can become a bit of a shit-show in their own end.  I think the only reason the JBM line aren't as bad as the JBK was, is the other team is more often focused on Matthews now and the Kadri line draws the toughest assignment.

Yeah, Bozak and JVR are 50 point guys...if 50 point guys are holding Marner back, he's going to have a hard time in this league reaching this supposed potential. 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on November 14, 2016, 10:35:10 AM
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/11/14/13608674/the-magic-of-mitch-marner-breaking-down-the-enchanting-rookie-s-game

GIF-heavy breakdown of Marner's game vs the Penguins.

Like he was with London, Marner seems to know where everyone is on the ice. He's clearly being held back right now by Bozak and JvR.

I dont think I've ever read a second by second , breath by breath,  shift by shift anaysis quite like this before. I'm as big of Marner fan as anyone. In fact, I've predicted he will be better than Matthews when all is said and done. But this writer needs to get a life. We don't need slow motion breakdown of his every movement on the ice to appreciate his talent.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: TBLeafer on November 14, 2016, 11:04:03 AM
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/11/14/13608674/the-magic-of-mitch-marner-breaking-down-the-enchanting-rookie-s-game

GIF-heavy breakdown of Marner's game vs the Penguins.

Like he was with London, Marner seems to know where everyone is on the ice. He's clearly being held back right now by Bozak and JvR.

I dont think I've ever read a second by second , breath by breath,  shift by shift anaysis quite like this before. I'm as big of Marner fan as anyone. In fact, I've predicted he will be better than Matthews when all is said and done. But this writer needs to get a life. We don't need slow motion breakdown of his every movement on the ice to appreciate his talent.

And yet, you sound like you read it all.  :)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 14, 2016, 11:49:00 AM
He's clearly being held back right now by Bozak and JvR.

What makes you think that?  Bozak and JvR are pretty darn good offensively.  The only way I see them holding him back is on the defensive end of things, where Marner seems to be the best of the three in his own end. 

If you ask me, that's always been the rub with Bozak and JvR- they just aren't good defensively.  Whether its Kessel or Marner, they (JvR and Bozak) compliment the star winger offensively but can become a bit of a shit-show in their own end.  I think the only reason the JBM line aren't as bad as the JBK was, is the other team is more often focused on Matthews now and the Kadri line draws the toughest assignment.

Are they augmenting Marner's game in any way, or is it the other way around?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on November 14, 2016, 01:05:24 PM
He's clearly being held back right now by Bozak and JvR.

What makes you think that?  Bozak and JvR are pretty darn good offensively.  The only way I see them holding him back is on the defensive end of things, where Marner seems to be the best of the three in his own end. 

If you ask me, that's always been the rub with Bozak and JvR- they just aren't good defensively.  Whether its Kessel or Marner, they (JvR and Bozak) compliment the star winger offensively but can become a bit of a shit-show in their own end.  I think the only reason the JBM line aren't as bad as the JBK was, is the other team is more often focused on Matthews now and the Kadri line draws the toughest assignment.

Are they augmenting Marner's game in any way, or is it the other way around?

Of course Marner is having a bigger impact on them than they are having on him- that's what your BEST PLAYER does.  Marner is our best forward offensively, and will continue to be our best forward offensively for a very long time.  Matthews may become better overall and more impactful (due to position), but I don't think he's going to provide more offense than Marner. 

Sidney Crosby is Pittsburgh's best player and has pretty much led the league in scoring over the last 10 years.  Have Kunitz, Sheary, Hornqvist, etc "held him back"?

Mitch Marner is Top 40 in the NHL in 5 on 5 points per 60 minutes.  All of his ES points have come with Bozak; JvR was on the ice for over 80% of those points.  How are Bozak and JvR holding him back?


Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 14, 2016, 02:47:45 PM
Are they augmenting Marner's game in any way, or is it the other way around?

Of course Marner is having a bigger impact on them than they are having on him- that's what your BEST PLAYER does.  Marner is our best forward offensively, and will continue to be our best forward offensively for a very long time.  Matthews may become better overall and more impactful (due to position), but I don't think he's going to provide more offense than Marner. 

Sidney Crosby is Pittsburgh's best player and has pretty much led the league in scoring over the last 10 years.  Have Kunitz, Sheary, Hornqvist, etc "held him back"?

Mitch Marner is Top 40 in the NHL in 5 on 5 points per 60 minutes.  All of his ES points have come with Bozak; JvR was on the ice for over 80% of those points.  How are Bozak and JvR holding him back?

I think Marner's production would be higher with some other players. Bozak and JvR are not outright anchors, but are they the ideal complementary players that will help Marner achieve his potential?

From my perspective, Marner makes space for Bozak and JvR. Marner feeds their numbers; gets the puck for them; covers defensively for them. So it's a simple matter of resource allocation: Marner (because he's so good) is expending a good deal of time creating and covering for his linemates. Outside of that one game, the bulk of opportunities generated for Bozak and JvR seem to be wasted.

Edit: Current WOWY numbers say my eyes are wrong, at least regarding CF% at evens; sample sizes are small when apart.
http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/showplayer.php?pid=763&withagainst=true&season=2016-17&sit=5v5

16 + 42: TOI - 169:19; 51.0%
16 + 25: TOI - 167:01; 51.6%

16 - 42: TOI - 36:21; 50.0%
16 - 25: TOI - 38:39; 47.8%

42 - 16: TOI - 21:39; 57.5
25 - 16: TOI - 21:20; 63.8
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on November 14, 2016, 03:20:24 PM
I think Marner's production would be higher with some other players. Bozak and JvR are not outright anchors, but are they the ideal complementary players that will help Marner achieve his potential?

From my perspective, Marner makes space for Bozak and JvR. Marner feeds their numbers; gets the puck for them; covers defensively for them. So it's a simple matter of resource allocation: Marner (because he's so good) is expending a good deal of time creating and covering for his linemates. Outside of that one game, the bulk of opportunities generated for Bozak and JvR seem to be wasted.

Based on the Leafs roster, where the left wingers are Hyman, Komarov, JvR, and Martin (with Leivo/Holland in the pressbox) who would you rather have on Marner's Left wing?

As for his centerman.  Kadri would be an upgrade on Bozak defensively, but offensively speaking they are not much different in terms of output and capability.  Since Kadri draws the opposition top line as his assignment, I'd argue Marner would NOT be more productive since he'd have tougher competition each night.

Yes, Matthews would be an upgrade on Bozak offensively in terms of talent/skill.  No question.  However, Matthews draws the oppositions attention the most- he faces the shutdown players from the other team night in and night out and it has affected his production, even with a highly skilled player like Nylander on his wing.  Hence, Marner would also face tougher competition by playing with Matthews and there is no guarantee his production would go up.  I say all of the above believing that in the LONG RUN, I think Matthews and Marner should be the cornerstones of our top line.  However, both need some time to develop before I'd expect MORE production out of Marner when they have to go out there and face the oppositions best players together.

As I stated before, with Marner essentially being on the third line right now (in terms of how tough the opposition they are facing), its no surprise that the Jvr-Bozak-Marner line is doing quite well 5 on 5.  Move him up the lineup and you cannot guarantee his production would go up. 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 14, 2016, 04:09:59 PM
Based on the Leafs roster, where the left wingers are Hyman, Komarov, JvR, and Martin (with Leivo/Holland in the pressbox) who would you rather have on Marner's Left wing?

As for his centerman.  Kadri would be an upgrade on Bozak defensively, but offensively speaking they are not much different in terms of output and capability.  Since Kadri draws the opposition top line as his assignment, I'd argue Marner would NOT be more productive since he'd have tougher competition each night.

Yes, Matthews would be an upgrade on Bozak offensively in terms of talent/skill.  No question.  However, Matthews draws the oppositions attention the most- he faces the shutdown players from the other team night in and night out and it has affected his production, even with a highly skilled player like Nylander on his wing.  Hence, Marner would also face tougher competition by playing with Matthews and there is no guarantee his production would go up.  I say all of the above believing that in the LONG RUN, I think Matthews and Marner should be the cornerstones of our top line.  However, both need some time to develop before I'd expect MORE production out of Marner when they have to go out there and face the oppositions best players together.

As I stated before, with Marner essentially being on the third line right now (in terms of how tough the opposition they are facing), its no surprise that the Jvr-Bozak-Marner line is doing quite well 5 on 5.  Move him up the lineup and you cannot guarantee his production would go up.

Optimizing Marner's skillset is maybe less about the LW and more about the C. Offensively, he is on pace for super-stardom already, and I think he'd benefit greatly from wheeling with a left shot centre. He's had brief moments with Kadri and Matthews, and there were immediate sparks. Plays just last longer with either of those two.

You're right in that the competition is tougher for those two, but Marner plays up to the challenge. I do want to see him on Kadri's wing on the shutdown line because of his positioning instincts, creativity with the puck, and Kadri's give-and-go game (with a heavy shot and net nose on the left). Soshnikov - Kadri - Marner would be interesting to see.

As evidenced by the shift breakdown, every time Bozak was the forward back on D first, the line got crushed in their own zone. He's not disruptive enough, and plays stationary defense. He's got the wheels to keep up with Marner going the other way though. Most of the time, it looks like Marner is playing the centre role, other than the faceoffs.

JvR either doesn't play the right style to match Marner's game, or doesn't think the game fast enough because he's been perimetery this season.

When Matthews is ready to take the top-line matchups, then Marner would be a great fit there, leaving either Kadri or Nylander to take the overmatch advantage on line 3.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: freer on November 14, 2016, 07:46:20 PM
IMO

Marner is exactly where needs to be, according to the best coach in the NHL.

Marner is on pace for about 60-65 point this season. No one thought he would accomplish that this season.

IMO again if he can stay away from injuries, he will be the best player on the team, in a few years. (Since game 6 Matthews has really done nothing)

Again this season everyone criticizes Bozak. Why, he is a player who puts up .75 ppg and has with whom ever he has played with.

We have to have veterans with the rookies. or doesnt work, just look at DET over the 20 + seasons.

Let the coach who is earning millions a year do his job.

 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 16, 2016, 09:33:45 AM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/11/15/mike-babcock-on-mitch-marner-ive-never-coached-a-kid-that-good-that-young/

Quote
As you coach these young guys for the first time, were you surprised by many elements of Marners game?

Babcock: Hes a really talented guy. You look at all the kids in our lineup Carrick and Zaitsev and Hyman and Brown, and then the three guys that have elite skill he not only has the skill but he competes every night. He competes with and without the puck. Thats really positive. Obviously, some of those other guys have to compete thats why we like them so much. But when youve got that much skill, you can float around a little bit and still be in the league. Youre not going to be good, but youre going to be in the league. So hes that competitive, hes on the puck, hes smart. Easy to talk to. Enjoys the game. Wants to get better.

Mitch Marner is the prototypical forward that Hunter has been picking and grooming: great hockey sense, skates well, has skills, will work. I, for one, would love to see a full lineup of these players, if not at the deadline this year, then next season when the cap space opens up.

The league is transitioning to a game where there's no such thing as having too many players with smarts, speed, and puck-skill.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 16, 2016, 10:53:09 AM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/11/15/mike-babcock-on-mitch-marner-ive-never-coached-a-kid-that-good-that-young/

Quote
As you coach these young guys for the first time, were you surprised by many elements of Marners game?

Babcock: Hes a really talented guy. You look at all the kids in our lineup Carrick and Zaitsev and Hyman and Brown, and then the three guys that have elite skill he not only has the skill but he competes every night. He competes with and without the puck. Thats really positive. Obviously, some of those other guys have to compete thats why we like them so much. But when youve got that much skill, you can float around a little bit and still be in the league. Youre not going to be good, but youre going to be in the league. So hes that competitive, hes on the puck, hes smart. Easy to talk to. Enjoys the game. Wants to get better.

Mitch Marner is the prototypical forward that Hunter has been picking and grooming: great hockey sense, skates well, has skills, will work. I, for one, would love to see a full lineup of these players, if not at the deadline this year, then next season when the cap space opens up.

The league is transitioning to a game where there's no such thing as having too many players with smarts, speed, and puck-skill.

The sooner the better.

Also, kudos to Babcock for hitting the sweet spot in his remarks about the young guys.  Just enough of a hint of criticism (and an implied challenge to Matthew and Nylander to step it up to keep pace with Marner) but mostly positive.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: LuncheonMeat on November 16, 2016, 01:24:04 PM
IMO

Marner is exactly where needs to be, according to the best coach in the NHL.

Marner is on pace for about 60-65 point this season. No one thought he would accomplish that this season.

IMO again if he can stay away from injuries, he will be the best player on the team, in a few years. (Since game 6 Matthews has really done nothing)

Again this season everyone criticizes Bozak. Why, he is a player who puts up .75 ppg and has with whom ever he has played with.

We have to have veterans with the rookies. or doesnt work, just look at DET over the 20 + seasons.

Let the coach who is earning millions a year do his job.

You take Matthews, a 19-year-old, to task for doing 'nothing' since game 6, and then praise Bozak. Do you really think Bozak has been that much better than Matthews? Maybe we're not watching the same games.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 16, 2016, 03:33:12 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/11/16/mike-babcock-mitch-marner-helped-veterans-hit-ground-running/

Quote
How has having two veterans in JVR and Bozak maybe allowed Mitch to hit the ground running this season, do you think?

Babcock: Well, thats a good question. Mitch has helped those veterans hit the ground running. Obviously, there is a combination of things there. Bozie is good in the faceoff circle and can pass the puck. James can skate and is good at the net. Mitch is on the puck and elite and smart. Those guys have been a good group. The other thing about it is they dont always draw the hardest matchup. Naz does most of the time. On the road, usually one of Auston or them do. That makes it easier as well.

Babcock showing Marner more love; completely turns the question around to note that Marner is propping up the vets on his sheltered line.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on November 17, 2016, 06:58:24 PM
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/11/15/mike-babcock-on-mitch-marner-ive-never-coached-a-kid-that-good-that-young/

Quote
As you coach these young guys for the first time, were you surprised by many elements of Marners game?

Babcock: Hes a really talented guy. You look at all the kids in our lineup Carrick and Zaitsev and Hyman and Brown, and then the three guys that have elite skill he not only has the skill but he competes every night. He competes with and without the puck. Thats really positive. Obviously, some of those other guys have to compete thats why we like them so much. But when youve got that much skill, you can float around a little bit and still be in the league. Youre not going to be good, but youre going to be in the league. So hes that competitive, hes on the puck, hes smart. Easy to talk to. Enjoys the game. Wants to get better.

Mitch Marner is the prototypical forward that Hunter has been picking and grooming: great hockey sense, skates well, has skills, will work. I, for one, would love to see a full lineup of these players, if not at the deadline this year, then next season when the cap space opens up.

The league is transitioning to a game where there's no such thing as having too many players with smarts, speed, and puck-skill.

Agreed, I just heard the poignant fact on a round-table that we're just starting to see the first crop of a new harvest of young players that grew up playing the game after the post-2004 lockout rule changes. Zero-tolerance to clutching and grabbing on the puck-carrier has led to a drastic de-emphasis on size and brute strength in order to counter that. Now, even if you're small but fast, skilled and slippery enough to avoid getting laid out, then you're sound as a pound.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 17, 2016, 07:50:32 PM
As excited as Marner gets when he scores, he seems to love it even more when his teammates have success.

I love that and haven't seen it to this extent since Mats.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on November 18, 2016, 03:16:12 AM

Like, look at the way he uses his his body to shield it from the defender and gain position so he can make his two, and then breathtaking third move. Awesome.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on November 18, 2016, 03:20:50 AM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: KGB on November 18, 2016, 08:11:32 AM
Can you imagine how ridiculous he would be had he been sent back to London?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on November 18, 2016, 08:36:33 AM
Can you imagine how ridiculous he would be had he been sent back to London?

They'd need new scoreboards league-wide to accommodate triple-digit scores.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 18, 2016, 08:37:50 AM
Can you imagine how ridiculous he would be had he been sent back to London?

Honestly, there are limits to how much more ridiculous he could be vs. last year. He scored at a 200 point pace in the playoffs last year.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Arn on November 18, 2016, 08:57:19 AM
Mentioned this in the game thread

Is Marner the Malkin to Matthews' Crosby?

Others suggested Kane to Toews?

Either way, potentially rather exciting...
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 18, 2016, 09:16:26 AM
Mentioned this in the game thread

Is Marner the Malkin to Matthews' Crosby?

Others suggested Kane to Toews?

Either way, potentially rather exciting...

The reason I went with Kane/Toews is because Marner is a winger of similar ilk (and junior path). And Matthews is more like Malkin anyways.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 18, 2016, 09:24:25 AM
Matthews is serious like Toews.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 18, 2016, 09:28:24 AM
The reason I went with Kane/Toews is because Marner is a winger of similar ilk (and junior path). And Matthews is more like Malkin anyways.

The key difference being that at 19 Marner is probably already better defensively than Kane ever was.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 18, 2016, 09:32:25 AM
The reason I went with Kane/Toews is because Marner is a winger of similar ilk (and junior path). And Matthews is more like Malkin anyways.

The key difference being that at 19 Marner is probably already better defensively than Kane ever was.

Way less troublesome off the ice too.

What do you guys think of playing him on the PK?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 18, 2016, 09:45:52 AM
What do you guys think of playing him on the PK?

I could see him and Matthews both getting secondary minutes in 1-3 years, sure. That also led me to maybe a more appropriate comparison for the two: Datsyuk/Zetterberg (from when the Wings were still good, obviously).
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Peter D. on November 18, 2016, 09:53:04 AM
Mentioned this in the game thread

Is Marner the Malkin to Matthews' Crosby?

Others suggested Kane to Toews?

Either way, potentially rather exciting...

I hope it's the former.  I'd be lying if I didn't say I'd be disappointed if Matthews didn't have a better statistical career than Toews.  He has the potential to be more than a 60-70 point guy.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: KGB on November 18, 2016, 10:04:10 AM
I know we shouldn't do this, it's still early days, but Dylan Strome got another game with the Coyotes last night.  No points and his hooking penalty in overtime led to the game winning goal via a penalty shot.  The 'Yotes can use him two more times before deciding on whether he returns to Erie or not.  Thus far this season he has a single NHL point, an assist, in 7 games.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 18, 2016, 10:26:55 AM
For anybody who wants to see Marner's goal accompanied by Joe Bowen's call of it:

www.twitter.com/Leafs_TV/status/799633797138485248
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: hockeyfan1 on November 18, 2016, 01:56:15 PM
I like the excitement he exudes after scoring a goal.  He genuinely shows how much he enjoys playing for the Blue & White.  Haven't seen a player of this ilk that embraces his role and in a Maple Leaf uniform.

Yes, one can say he's so young and having fun, but, it's the whole point of the situation and that is that Marner's scoring /playmaking largely speaks for itself.  He let's his personality shine on the ice. 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 20, 2016, 05:27:32 PM
Arizona has sent Strome back to the OHL after 7 games played. Seems like the right call, although I'm not sure the Coyotes really handled this all that great. He was constantly going in and out of the line-up so he never got a chance to really settle in. And if they were worried about certain things in his game I'm surprised they didn't try him on the wing instead of at centre to start his career. I also feel like for someone of his talent they should have been more worried about the 40-game point than the ELC trigger game. He should have been given a longer leash. Going back to the OHL is just going to be a waste of a season.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on November 23, 2016, 10:57:17 PM
15 seconds left in OT...
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 23, 2016, 11:14:06 PM
What's kind of amazing there is that even after he bulldozes the guy and gets off a quality second attempt, he's not just standing there admiring things, he's right up and trying to chop it away from the Jersey player clearing it.  Just relentless around the net.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 24, 2016, 10:30:46 AM
What's kind of amazing there is that even after he bulldozes the guy and gets off a quality second attempt, he's not just standing there admiring things, he's right up and trying to chop it away from the Jersey player clearing it.  Just relentless around the net.

That might be my favourite Marner-moment of the season so far. Cammalleri literally didn't know what hit him.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: LuncheonMeat on November 24, 2016, 05:55:41 PM
What's kind of amazing there is that even after he bulldozes the guy and gets off a quality second attempt, he's not just standing there admiring things, he's right up and trying to chop it away from the Jersey player clearing it.  Just relentless around the net.

That might be my favourite Marner-moment of the season so far. Cammalleri literally didn't know what hit him.

My favorite as well. With the way he's played, it wouldn't have surprised to see him do a little no-look to Bozak for a tap-in after knocking down Cammalleri.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Arn on November 25, 2016, 09:31:10 AM
Just imagine what he'd be doing if he was down in the OHL.....
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zee on November 25, 2016, 02:08:26 PM
What's kind of amazing there is that even after he bulldozes the guy and gets off a quality second attempt, he's not just standing there admiring things, he's right up and trying to chop it away from the Jersey player clearing it.  Just relentless around the net.

That might be my favourite Marner-moment of the season so far. Cammalleri literally didn't know what hit him.

I got up out of my chair on that play, really thought he was going to win it there. That would have been highlite of the season for me.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 25, 2016, 09:49:11 PM
What's kind of amazing there is that even after he bulldozes the guy and gets off a quality second attempt, he's not just standing there admiring things, he's right up and trying to chop it away from the Jersey player clearing it.  Just relentless around the net.

That might be my favourite Marner-moment of the season so far. Cammalleri literally didn't know what hit him.

I got up out of my chair on that play, really thought he was going to win it there. That would have been highlite of the season for me.

Same here.  I let go with an involuntary Oghhhhhhh
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Highlander on November 27, 2016, 11:49:27 AM
The more I watch this kid, the more I feel like he is the steal of the deal.  Great thread pass to Martin and is a puck hound.  Relentless, never expected him to be this good, this soon. 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: sickbeast on November 27, 2016, 01:09:49 PM
The more I watch this kid, the more I feel like he is the steal of the deal.  Great thread pass to Martin and is a puck hound.  Relentless, never expected him to be this good, this soon.
He is the real deal, he is going to be like Doug Gilmour, maybe even better than that. He is small but he is tenacious and plays a physical game. He wins the battles along the boards and he is a huge forechecking beast. Combine that with his very high skill level and speed and he will be an elite player very soon.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: L K on November 27, 2016, 01:25:48 PM
18 points in 21 games.  A good time to remind everyone that the Leafs rookie scoring records are:

Goals - Wendel Clark - 34
Assists - Gus Bodnar - 40
Points - Peter Ihnacak - 66

Marner is current on pace to break the assist and point totals.  Matthews is on pace to break Clark's goal record.



Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 27, 2016, 03:49:55 PM
Can anyone remember a Calder race like this?

Marner, Laine, Matthews, Nylander, Werenski and Murray leading the pack to this point.

Murray might be the dark horse that nobody is really talking about.

7-1
1.75 GAA
.939 SvPct
1 SO
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 27, 2016, 03:53:28 PM
Can anyone remember a Calder race like this?

05-06 maybe. Crosby and Ovechkin both over 100 points, Phaneuf scoring 20 goals, Lundqvist going 30-12-9 with a .922, Boyes almost scoring 70 points.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: freer on November 27, 2016, 09:47:20 PM
Can anyone remember a Calder race like this?

05-06 maybe. Crosby and Ovechkin both over 100 points, Phaneuf scoring 20 goals, Lundqvist going 30-12-9 with a .922, Boyes almost scoring 70 points.

As good as this seasons rookies are, I don't see any of them hitting anything close to 100 points. IMO 80 points for the best rookie sound about right.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: princedpw on November 27, 2016, 11:38:23 PM
Can anyone remember a Calder race like this?

05-06 maybe. Crosby and Ovechkin both over 100 points, Phaneuf scoring 20 goals, Lundqvist going 30-12-9 with a .922, Boyes almost scoring 70 points.

As good as this seasons rookies are, I don't see any of them hitting anything close to 100 points. IMO 80 points for the best rookie sound about right.

Was that the year after the lockout?  So scoring was up that year, right, due to many extra power plays?  Still, I wouldn't expect the forwards to match Crosby/Ovechkin.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: bustaheims on November 28, 2016, 09:23:12 AM
Murray might be the dark horse that nobody is really talking about.

That's because he might not be eligible. He played more than 25 games in the league before this season, assuming playoff games count towards that total.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 28, 2016, 09:36:14 AM
Murray might be the dark horse that nobody is really talking about.

That's because he might not be eligible. He played more than 25 games in the league before this season, assuming playoff games count towards that total.

They may have changed the rules since then but Ken Dryden won the Calder the year after he won the Conn Smythe.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on November 28, 2016, 10:28:25 AM
Murray might be the dark horse that nobody is really talking about.

That's because he might not be eligible. He played more than 25 games in the league before this season, assuming playoff games count towards that total.

Playoff games don't count towards that total, so he's eligible.  I think the reason he hasn't really been part of the conversation is because he's only appeared in 8 games total so far this year.  If he stays healthy and plays well in the majority of the Pens remaining games he will certainly be in the conversation.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: LuncheonMeat on November 28, 2016, 03:02:06 PM
And this is why Marner will win the Calder.

(https://46wvda23y0nl13db2j3bl1yx-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/marns.gif)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on November 28, 2016, 10:27:35 PM
Plays like that make Babcock love you long time.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on December 28, 2016, 03:24:23 PM
https://theathletic.com/31430/2016/12/28/the-video-room-how-can-mitch-marner-become-a-30-goal-scorer/

Read this.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on December 31, 2016, 11:04:28 PM
MARNTHEWS with Tyler Bozak's baby ;D
https://www.instagram.com/p/BOpn2Y7FDPT/?taken-by=marner_93
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on January 05, 2017, 02:59:06 PM
www.twitter.com/Hockeymombracco/status/817073668748611585

Mitch Marner and Jeremy Bracco used to play together. They're pretty easy to find.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: louisstamos on January 05, 2017, 03:26:07 PM
That's awesome that they played hockey with the oldest brother from Home Improvement...
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on January 07, 2017, 09:13:36 PM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on January 09, 2017, 09:35:38 AM
What do you guys think of playing him on the PK?

Injuries forcing Babcock to use our obvious ideas...
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Frank E on January 09, 2017, 10:12:07 AM
What do you guys think of playing him on the PK?

Injuries forcing Babcock to use our obvious ideas...

I just wonder if you worry about getting them injured on the PK?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on January 09, 2017, 10:20:22 AM
I just wonder if you worry about getting them injured on the PK?

I worry about them getting injured on the PK as much as I worry about them getting injured at even strength, which is to say, a lot, but it's also part of the game. Bubble hockey is hilarious fun though.

Considering he has been the high guy on a line with two chronically stationary defenders, Marner has basically been playing PK defense all year already.

I cringe when players of any talent level block shots. I think the practice is borderline stupid, but I understand the instinct. We've already seen Marner throw himself in front of some good ones, and he did it fairly regularly in junior.

Edit: mentally reviewing my positions on aspects of hockey recently, I've concluded that yes, I'm in favour of a team forgoing fighting, hitting, and blocking shots (high forward laydown type) to focus more on positioning, supporting the puck, pursuing the puck as a group, and shooting the puck from advantageous locations.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 09, 2017, 10:53:43 AM
I just wonder if you worry about getting them injured on the PK?

I worry about them getting injured on the PK as much as I worry about them getting injured at even strength, which is to say, a lot, but it's also part of the game. Bubble hockey is hilarious fun though.

Considering he has been the high guy on a line with two chronically stationary defenders, Marner has basically been playing PK defense all year already.

I cringe when players of any talent level block shots. I think the practice is borderline stupid, but I understand the instinct. We've already seen Marner throw himself in front of some good ones, and he did it fairly regularly in junior.

Edit: mentally reviewing my positions on aspects of hockey recently, I've concluded that yes, I'm in favour of a team forgoing fighting, hitting, and blocking shots (high forward laydown type) to focus more on positioning, supporting the puck, pursuing the puck as a group, and shooting the puck from advantageous locations.

An inordinately high percentage of your observations are golden.  What the hell are you doing hanging around here?  You should be the guy hiding under the table whispering lines to Nick Kypreos.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Highlander on January 09, 2017, 11:05:34 AM
That is true. LOL
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on January 09, 2017, 11:14:45 AM
What the hell are you doing hanging around here?  You should be the guy hiding under the table whispering lines to Nick Kypreos.

Well, for starters, I don't want to be under the table that Nick Kypreos is sitting at  ;D And I really like it here.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 09, 2017, 12:13:06 PM

I don't worry too much about the injury risk but I do worry a little bit about throwing too much at them too soon. Marner's obviously been good offensively but not so good I think he shouldn't still be focused on improving there.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on January 09, 2017, 01:53:15 PM
Marner's Offense:
Stylistically, he's a tic-tac-toe player, which has been on display at times with Bozak (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JH_OqIQ_pQw). He has mentioned himself that he's looking to develop into a multi-tool threat. He has a good, accurate shot, but the release is not quite NHL heavy or deceptive yet, leaning pretty heavily on wristers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29s9_7y2Y60).

LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION
(http://hockeyviz.com/static/img/player/shotLoc/1617/shotLoc-1617-marnemi97.png)
Shooting location has improved from the early parts of the season, where he was favouring the RW, outside of the dot (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FQTrgUG9FM).

As you can see in the videos below, when he pulls to the inside to open up the angle to more of the net, his accuracy has more to work with.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzvLH8VHaIU[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgFpzROv9ps[/youtube]


LEGZ
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25BxX-UJqMM[/youtube]
He's such a fantastic skater that it's great to see him use that tool to get better reads on the net, or open up lanes for his teammates.

BRAAAAINS
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1SBCEDm5mg[/youtube]
I said this last year when reviewing Marner's games with London. He has that Gretzkyian sense of where everyone is on the ice, and where they will likely be. Check out this bump back pass to Bozak after calling for the give and go with JvR by stick out his stick around Emelin.

STICK HANDLING
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrjHkna2REA[/youtube]
Seriously, it's not fair what he can do with the puck given even a little bit of time and space. It's not just the puck handling though, it's also the change of speed and positioning to give the puck the best look at the net.

BOARDS
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU5gfeIOen0[/youtube]
Do you remember how everyone thought Marner was too small for the NHL? HAHAHAHAHA. Here he knows he's going to be hit, so he just presses up against the boards to transfer all the hit into the flexing glass, bounces out, and knowing there is a follow up hit, he uses the momentum to drive his first stride out of the corner around a JvR pick for the no-look sneak-snipe.

TO BE IMPROVED
Marner still takes a good number of Jason Blake-ian shots and the line tends to prefer transition plays, rather than setting up shop on the cycle. Those straight-line approaches are pretty easy for the defense and goaltenders to turn away. Marner (and co.) do so much damage when they can cross the middle (get the zone defense communication scrambled) and in close. Fortunately, he's not afraid to get greasy, and can pick the puck out of a pile. His teammates have caught up with his thinking speed too, so they're keeping their sticks on the ice when he makes forays to the net (Bozak is sneaky!).
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on January 13, 2017, 03:17:24 PM
Leafs 'Veterans':

Matt Hunwick - 31 (incredibly old)
Roman Polak - 30
Tyler Bozak - 30
Leo Komorov - 29
Matt Martin - 27
James Van Riemsdyk - 27
Nazem Kadri - 26
Jake Gardiner - 26
Morgan Rielly - 22(!)


Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: LuncheonMeat on January 13, 2017, 06:27:11 PM
NHL.com

Mitch Marner: 6' 0"
Matt Martin: 6' 3"

hmmmm......

Edit: They make a cute couple, though
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on January 13, 2017, 09:50:56 PM
NHL.com

Mitch Marner: 6' 0"
Matt Martin: 6' 3"

hmmmm......

Edit: They make a cute couple, though

Uh-huh.  Marner is the Muggsy Bogues of the NHL.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: McGarnagle on January 13, 2017, 10:10:50 PM
I know its been all about Matthews vs Laine in all the Calder talk, but is Marner that far off the discussion?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 13, 2017, 10:19:06 PM
I know its been all about Matthews vs Laine in all the Calder talk, but is Marner that far off the discussion?

Realistically if Matthews/Laine score 35-40 goals or better then, yeah, Marner probably is pretty far off.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Arn on January 13, 2017, 11:10:33 PM
Marner is in a way much more fun to watch, but I think Matthews is a small step up in level of quality.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: bustaheims on January 14, 2017, 12:02:27 AM
Realistically if Matthews/Laine score 35-40 goals or better then, yeah, Marner probably is pretty far off.

Pretty much. In most other seasons, Marner would be a strong contender, but, with two rookies poised to put up exceptional numbers for 1st year players, the 'merely' excellent numbers he's on pace for won't cut it.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on January 14, 2017, 09:34:32 AM
Unless the unexpected were to happen, and Marner has a stellar 2nd half and ends up taking the rookie point lead. I think that would put him in the Calder mix.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: McGarnagle on January 14, 2017, 10:17:12 AM
Unless the unexpected were to happen, and Marner has a stellar 2nd half and ends up taking the rookie point lead. I think that would put him in the Calder mix.

Well, he's only 3pts back now. And he and Matthews have a bunch of games in hand.

I'm going to put an order in for campaign buttons.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Highlander on January 14, 2017, 01:11:29 PM
whats the latest on Laine, I heard he was concussed
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bates on January 14, 2017, 01:38:46 PM
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/birthday-boys-uncle-takes-a-shot-laine-scores-with-visit-signed-jersey-410651155.html
whats the latest on Laine, I heard he was concussed
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: L K on January 14, 2017, 03:23:34 PM
Unless the unexpected were to happen, and Marner has a stellar 2nd half and ends up taking the rookie point lead. I think that would put him in the Calder mix.

Well, he's only 3pts back now. And he and Matthews have a bunch of games in hand.

I'm going to put an order in for campaign buttons.

35-40 goals is always going to trump 35-40 assists.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on January 14, 2017, 05:03:27 PM
Unless the unexpected were to happen, and Marner has a stellar 2nd half and ends up taking the rookie point lead. I think that would put him in the Calder mix.

Well, he's only 3pts back now. And he and Matthews have a bunch of games in hand.

I'm going to put an order in for campaign buttons.

35-40 goals is always going to trump 35-40 assists.

Yeah, that was sort of my point. If Matthews or Laine scores, say, 68 points but split 35-33, that's going to win out over Marner throwing up a 20-50 and I think the more impressive the goal total the more Marner would have to lead the point total with to be a real contender. Like if Matthews or Laine has 40 goals and 70 points, I  think Marner would need 80-90 points to crack some first place votes.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: freer on January 14, 2017, 08:09:27 PM
Unless the unexpected were to happen, and Marner has a stellar 2nd half and ends up taking the rookie point lead. I think that would put him in the Calder mix.

Well, he's only 3pts back now. And he and Matthews have a bunch of games in hand.

I'm going to put an order in for campaign buttons.

35-40 goals is always going to trump 35-40 assists.

Yeah, that was sort of my point. If Matthews or Laine scores, say, 68 points but split 35-33, that's going to win out over Marner throwing up a 20-50 and I think the more impressive the goal total the more Marner would have to lead the point total with to be a real contender. Like if Matthews or Laine has 40 goals and 70 points, I  think Marner would need 80-90 points to crack some first place votes.

Well IMO Marner is going to better then both of them!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on January 15, 2017, 12:43:56 AM
Mitch's first 25 assists.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYW-ZSS5x-4

[youtube]QYW-ZSS5x-4[/youtube]
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: McGarnagle on January 15, 2017, 01:05:54 PM
35-40 goals is always going to trump 35-40 assists.

Well, I suppose if they're yuuuge goals.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on January 16, 2017, 10:00:24 PM

Mitch adapts his second time around and takes wristers instead of slappers in the road hockey goalie challenge.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Highlander on January 17, 2017, 10:35:59 AM
Unless the unexpected were to happen, and Marner has a stellar 2nd half and ends up taking the rookie point lead. I think that would put him in the Calder mix.

Well, he's only 3pts back now. And he and Matthews have a bunch of games in hand.

I'm going to put an order in for campaign buttons.

35-40 goals is always going to trump 35-40 assists.
Please keep references to Trump in non hockey chatter ;)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: lamajama on January 17, 2017, 01:59:09 PM

Mitch adapts his second time around and takes wristers instead of slappers in the road hockey goalie challenge.

Why do they have to shoot from 100 feet away? I coulda stopped most of those.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on January 21, 2017, 10:52:04 PM
Look up a photo of 'Youthful Enthusiam' in the dictionary. Photo is MM.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bender on January 22, 2017, 04:28:51 PM
MM pulling his best Ric Flair impression.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on January 23, 2017, 10:04:12 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urne5H_eRHo[/youtube]

The highlight of this goal is obviously JvR, but what I'd like to put a spotlight on is Marner's move shortly before getting his shot blocked.

This is something he and other skilled players do a lot (Gardiner, especially). He takes the return pass at the side wall and he is open to the defense. The forwards draw towards him to start screening point passes, and Marner immediately pivots around the mostly stationary puck. This changes the opportunity angles from blocked passes to open shooting lane while the puck stays in its current safe location.

Then he purposely dives into the PK box to draw the defense away from the net front, as he's really shooting for a rebound here for JvR, who is on his open side, or Bozak in the slot. Then he rolls out as the high slot in case the rebound comes out past Bozak.

JvR shows pass with his stick, but he actually never even looks up, and catches Nilsson cheating off the post to cover the slot pass with a nearly impossible slice of cheddar.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Arn on January 24, 2017, 04:52:09 AM
Is it time to send him back to junior now?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Kaberle15 on January 24, 2017, 11:33:35 AM
Is it time to send him back to junior now?

Nah, wait a little more just to see if he will win the Rookie or the month race for january...
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 01, 2017, 12:17:26 PM
www.twitter.com/LeafsPR/status/826837961597648896

Marner named Rookie of the Month for January. He scored 15 points in 13 games.

The Leafs have dominated this award. Nylander won it in October, Matthews in December, and Marner now makes it 3 outta 4.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: bustaheims on February 01, 2017, 02:00:05 PM
First time in NHL history a team has had 3 different players win RotM in the same season.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on February 01, 2017, 03:09:39 PM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on February 01, 2017, 04:08:54 PM
First time in NHL history a team has had 3 different players win RotM in the same season.

Ok, you're up next, Brown.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Captain Canuck on February 01, 2017, 06:40:08 PM
First time in NHL history a team has had 3 different players win RotM in the same season.

This is freaking awesome!  8)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: hockeyfan1 on February 01, 2017, 07:12:51 PM
First time in NHL history a team has had 3 different players win RotM in the same season.

This is freaking awesome!  8)


Leaf-tastic!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 04, 2017, 08:55:18 PM
Quote
Randy Numbers @randynumbers
Marner is now one of 7 active players w/ 30 assists in his first 50 NHL games. He joins Kane, McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Backstrom & Ovechkin.

Guys, I can't tell, is that good company to be in?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: bustaheims on February 04, 2017, 08:58:15 PM
Quote
Randy Numbers @randynumbers
Marner is now one of 7 active players w/ 30 assists in his first 50 NHL games. He joins Kane, McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Backstrom & Ovechkin.

Guys, I can't tell, is that good company to be in?

Pfft. What have any of those players done?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: princedpw on February 05, 2017, 10:25:22 PM
Quote
Randy Numbers @randynumbers
Marner is now one of 7 active players w/ 30 assists in his first 50 NHL games. He joins Kane, McDavid, Crosby, Malkin, Backstrom & Ovechkin.

Guys, I can't tell, is that good company to be in?

Pfft. What have any of those players done?

That does seem to be the sort of list where you can be last and still turn out pretty well.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on February 05, 2017, 10:35:59 PM
Pretty decent company. And I have to follow up on my pre-season prediction that Marner may turn out to be the better player between himself and Matthews by the time the dust settles. Of course the jury's still out on that one, but it's certainly a legitimate race now with Marner surpassing Matthews in the rookie points total.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Boston Leaf on February 06, 2017, 07:19:30 AM
Marner and Matthews are two totally different style of players.. I am just glad they are both ours..
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on February 06, 2017, 07:50:19 AM
Marner and Matthews are two totally different style of players.. I am just glad they are both ours..

Completely fair point. We now have our very own dynamic duo.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Frank E on February 06, 2017, 10:26:06 AM
First time in NHL history a team has had 3 different players win RotM in the same season.

Ok, you're up next, Brown.

I know I've been pumping up his tires for a bit, but he's really an all 'round talent that can play in any situation, and as a rookie that's pretty commendable.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: L K on February 06, 2017, 12:30:23 PM
First time in NHL history a team has had 3 different players win RotM in the same season.

Ok, you're up next, Brown.

I know I've been pumping up his tires for a bit, but he's really an all 'round talent that can play in any situation, and as a rookie that's pretty commendable.

He grew on me pretty quickly watching him against the Knights and seeing how he performed in the AHL.  His rookie season is beyond exceeding expectations however.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on February 06, 2017, 10:30:40 PM
Helluva list ::)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Arn on February 07, 2017, 05:33:07 AM
It's been sort of joked about a little, but at what point does he genuinely start to have a shot at the Calder ahead of Matthews, if any?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Boston Leaf on February 07, 2017, 07:29:00 AM
It's been sort of joked about a little, but at what point does he genuinely start to have a shot at the Calder ahead of Matthews, if any?

I think he absolutely does... But the Center position is a tougher position to play as a rookie and counted on to do more it seems. Tougher growing pains. Mitch while so talented has benefited by two decent vets who have assisted in his growth.. But again I love it we have both and 29 and the rest
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 07, 2017, 08:38:58 AM
Per @mirtle, the last 12 players to reach 45 points in their first 51 games:

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4Bl1DYWMAEYY8r.jpg)

Is that good company???
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: bustaheims on February 07, 2017, 09:04:24 AM
Is that good company???

Is Scott Gomez good company? :P
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 07, 2017, 09:08:29 AM
Is that good company???

Is Scott Gomez good company? :P

He was until the Habs ruined him!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on February 07, 2017, 08:33:39 PM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on February 07, 2017, 09:25:23 PM
shoot, stick broke.... no worries...
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on February 14, 2017, 09:59:08 PM
www.twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/831693280844865537

Our season in a microcosm.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 15, 2017, 10:36:42 AM
Anybody else noticed that Marner has been playing a lot more "deep" in the defensive zone?  During the game last night I counted at least 4-5 times where Bozak was on the wing and Marner was down low helping the defense out.  It may have just been that Marner was the first on the backcheck (which happens often on that line), but often the C and W switch off when possible and they weren't doing that.

The main criticism I've always had about Bozak is that he doesn't move his feet in the defensive zone very much.  Always watching, from a half-decent "position" defensively, but doing nothing really to retrieve the puck and get it moving up ice. 

Marner was the opposite last night.  Whenever he was the man low in the zone, it seemed like they had no problem getting the puck and moving it up ice.  I wonder if Babcock has adjusted to Bozak's deficiency by asking Marner to do some more heavy lifting in the defensive zone.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on February 15, 2017, 10:58:38 AM
Anybody else noticed that Marner has been playing a lot more "deep" in the defensive zone?  During the game last night I counted at least 4-5 times where Bozak was on the wing and Marner was down low helping the defense out.  It may have just been that Marner was the first on the backcheck (which happens often on that line), but often the C and W switch off when possible and they weren't doing that.

The main criticism I've always had about Bozak is that he doesn't move his feet in the defensive zone very much.  Always watching, from a half-decent "position" defensively, but doing nothing really to retrieve the puck and get it moving up ice. 

Marner was the opposite last night.  Whenever he was the man low in the zone, it seemed like they had no problem getting the puck and moving it up ice.  I wonder if Babcock has adjusted to Bozak's deficiency by asking Marner to do some more heavy lifting in the defensive zone.

Yeah, good observation.

The Leafs tend to play fluid forwards, in that positions are only for lineup cards and faceoffs. The rest of the time, roles and responsibilities seem to be determined by relative proximity to the puck/play. They play a lot like a soccer team.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 15, 2017, 11:36:28 AM
Anybody else noticed that Marner has been playing a lot more "deep" in the defensive zone?  During the game last night I counted at least 4-5 times where Bozak was on the wing and Marner was down low helping the defense out.  It may have just been that Marner was the first on the backcheck (which happens often on that line), but often the C and W switch off when possible and they weren't doing that.

The main criticism I've always had about Bozak is that he doesn't move his feet in the defensive zone very much.  Always watching, from a half-decent "position" defensively, but doing nothing really to retrieve the puck and get it moving up ice. 

Marner was the opposite last night.  Whenever he was the man low in the zone, it seemed like they had no problem getting the puck and moving it up ice.  I wonder if Babcock has adjusted to Bozak's deficiency by asking Marner to do some more heavy lifting in the defensive zone.

Yeah, good observation.

The Leafs tend to play fluid forwards, in that positions are only for lineup cards and faceoffs. The rest of the time, roles and responsibilities seem to be determined by relative proximity to the puck/play. They play a lot like a soccer team.

To some degree for sure.  However, very rarely would you see Matthews covering the point in the defensive zone even though Hyman and Brown are strong backcheckers.  With the Kadri line, you will see Nylander and Komarov the odd time due to the backcheck, but often I see them switch off when possible.  In Marner's case, I think coach has said don't switch off.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on February 15, 2017, 03:44:51 PM
The Leafs tend to play fluid forwards, in that positions are only for lineup cards and faceoffs. The rest of the time, roles and responsibilities seem to be determined by relative proximity to the puck/play. They play a lot like a soccer team.

I deeply regret missing this opportunity for a Kadri joke. I'll endeavour do better next time.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Kaberle15 on February 17, 2017, 08:43:11 AM
Any Update on Marner after he the CBJ game ?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zee on February 17, 2017, 08:51:43 AM
Any Update on Marner after he the CBJ game ?

Word is he had an MRI done last night, we'll be told the results today.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on February 17, 2017, 10:18:16 AM
That would be a huge loss. *Fingers crossed he's alright*
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: PCB on February 17, 2017, 10:24:51 AM
As much as I would hate to see Mitch injured,  would his loss put the Leafs into full sell mode?  In otherwords forget the playoffs?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: nutman on February 17, 2017, 10:29:26 AM
As much as I would hate to see Mitch injured,  would his loss put the Leafs into full sell mode?  In otherwords forget the playoffs?




I don't think so. I do believe them days are gone.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: louisstamos on February 17, 2017, 10:31:35 AM
Lebrun says day-to-day with a UBI (upper body injury)

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zee on February 17, 2017, 10:43:01 AM
Day to day would be the best possible outcome.  Hopefully he's not too banged up.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: TBLeafer on February 17, 2017, 11:11:57 AM

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on February 17, 2017, 11:46:39 AM
Lebrun says day-to-day with a UBI (upper body injury)


I know modern medicine is still relatively primitive , but a UBI?  ;) Id hate to go into the operating room with that diagnosis.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: TBLeafer on February 17, 2017, 12:13:00 PM
DTD confirmed.


Kristen Shilton ‏@kristen_shilton  now53 seconds ago

Mitch Marner day to day, per Babcock

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bill_Berg on February 17, 2017, 12:40:13 PM
Lebrun says day-to-day with a UBI (upper body injury)


I know modern medicine is still relatively primitive , but a UBI?  ;) Id hate to go into the operating room with that diagnosis.

You know that's just pro sports these days reluctance to provide specific information about injuries. I think the people involved can narrow it down to left side right side too.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zee on February 27, 2017, 01:49:18 PM
Marner is back practicing today in a regular jersey.  Sounds like he'll be good to go tomorrow.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Frank E on February 27, 2017, 01:59:24 PM
Marner is back practicing today in a regular jersey.  Sounds like he'll be good to go tomorrow.

I wonder who drops out?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 27, 2017, 02:02:59 PM
Marner is back practicing today in a regular jersey.  Sounds like he'll be good to go tomorrow.

I wonder who drops out?

Right now it looks like Leivo.

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 27, 2017, 02:11:09 PM
Marner is back practicing today in a regular jersey.  Sounds like he'll be good to go tomorrow.

I wonder who drops out?

Right now it looks like Leivo.


While it would be nice to give Leivo a little more time to see if he can be consistent at the NHL level, at least the Nylander/Matthews pairing stayed together.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on February 27, 2017, 07:04:17 PM
Both Marner and Babcock want MM back already.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on February 27, 2017, 07:36:48 PM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on March 02, 2017, 01:30:52 PM
https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2017/02/28/theres-no-need-to-size-up-mitch-marner-feschuk.html

Feschuk trying to get on my good side.

Quote
Little Mitch, at the time, was playing peewee against boys a year older. At the time Michael Dal Colle, a longtime minor-hockey teammate of Marners who went on to be taken fifth overall by the New York Islanders in the 2014 NHL draft, was about 13 years old, standing five-foot-eight and 160 pounds, Paul Marner said. Mitch, at the same time, was four-foot-seven and about 85 pounds. Body-checking was permitted.

Every coach we played against was sending guys out to kill him. So his whole life, Mitch has dealt with that, Paul Marner said. And right now, even though theres some huge guys in the NHL, I think hes at the least size disadvantage hes probably ever had his whole life.

[...]

While Mitch weighed in at about 160 pounds when the Leafs drafted him fourth overall in 2015, he has since put on weight. Exactly how much weight? Well, Mitch can be coy about this subject.

Its whatever it says on the sheet. 170? Thats what it says on the sheet, he said.

Torontos No. 16, in contrast, is downright forceful about his height.

Im six feet, he recently said in a declaration that drew guffaws around the dressing room. Nobody believes that.

[...]

He tells me hes still growing all the time, Martin said, rolling his eyes. Good luck with that one. He thinks hes going to be 6-3. I know hes young. But hes not that young.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on March 18, 2017, 09:57:18 PM
Marnering.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on March 21, 2017, 09:10:15 AM
Morgan Reilly on the unbelievable no-look Marner pass for the game tying goal versus Boston last night..."We made eye contact, and after that you don't have to worry about it."  :o ???
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on March 21, 2017, 03:48:34 PM
(https://46wvda23y0nl13db2j3bl1yx-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/mitch-marner-696x389.jpg)

Someone in the press corps really likes taking aerial Mitch Marner vs the Bruins photos (https://46wvda23y0nl13db2j3bl1yx-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/mitchmarne-flying-1068x758.jpg).
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on March 21, 2017, 08:07:06 PM
(https://46wvda23y0nl13db2j3bl1yx-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/mitch-marner-696x389.jpg)

Someone in the press corps really likes taking aerial Mitch Marner vs the Bruins photos (https://46wvda23y0nl13db2j3bl1yx-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/mitchmarne-flying-1068x758.jpg).

haha I saw that! That was the point shot that Rask made a great kick save on Bozak.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on April 26, 2017, 05:08:59 PM
Looks like Mitchie's going on a trip:

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: L K on April 26, 2017, 09:04:31 PM
Surprised the Leafs wouldn't tell him to rest if he was recovering from mono
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bender on April 26, 2017, 10:14:43 PM
He had mono?

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: L K on April 26, 2017, 10:16:22 PM
He had mono?

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Quote
Babcock: I think the thing that happened to Mitchy most is when he got sick there. He got mono there and that I thought knocked him back. It took him a while to get the same pop back in him. You kind of lose a bit of swagger and then the playoffs come and youve got no room. I thought Game 6 in the third period was as good as hes been in the playoffs. I thought he had good pop and good energy. Mitchy loves hockey, he absolutely loves hockey. He goes about it in a positive way. He is a worker. He has great sense and competitiveness. This is a big summer for him. Hes going to get a lot stronger. Hes grown a lot since we drafted him. Hes a way taller kid than he was. Over time, he is going to put on some more meat. He is never going to be a heavy guy or a big guy, but hes going to be a lot stronger. He already, pound for pound, is very strong, but he can get much stronger.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zee on April 27, 2017, 09:02:31 AM
The question is, who was Marner kissing to get that mono?

Remember that jingle from a commercial way back when?

MONO MONO! GET THE MONO MONO GET THE MONO MONO GET THE MONO MONO GET THE MONO
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on April 27, 2017, 09:22:01 AM
The question is, who was Marner kissing to get that mono?

Remember that jingle from a commercial way back when?

MONO MONO! GET THE MONO MONO GET THE MONO MONO GET THE MONO MONO GET THE MONO

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKVDPY_X69g[/youtube]
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 27, 2017, 09:29:58 AM
The question is, who was Marner kissing to get that mono?



Martin duh.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: louisstamos on April 27, 2017, 11:13:41 AM
Do we know it was mono?  Maybe he was just really bored.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bullfrog on April 27, 2017, 11:34:52 AM
Mono can be brutal. I was fatigued for months after I got it.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zee on April 27, 2017, 01:03:15 PM
Mono can be brutal. I was fatigued for months after I got it.

Yeah I had it in my 20s...I remember being on a streetcar going to the doctor's office and nearly passing out from the heat.  I was so exhausted.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on May 16, 2017, 02:57:32 PM
Mitch Marner having himself a hell of a game so far at the WHC... 2 goals and an assist after the first period against the Finns.  Up to 10 points in 7 games at the tournament.  Trying to knock Willy off the tournament all-star selections :P
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on May 24, 2017, 07:56:50 PM
hahahaha
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on May 25, 2017, 03:50:41 PM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 25, 2017, 03:57:47 PM

Which one is Marner?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on May 25, 2017, 04:01:27 PM

Which one is Marner?

www.twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/867804337065656320
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: louisstamos on May 25, 2017, 04:10:37 PM
I think the most important thing here is...Robert Munsch has a school named after him?  The same guy who wrote "I Have to Go?"

That's pretty cool...
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zee on May 26, 2017, 09:19:13 AM

Looking at that picture it's hard to believe he's a rising star in the NHL.  Man I'm old.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bullfrog on May 26, 2017, 10:39:40 AM

Which one is Marner?

The skinny one.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 26, 2017, 11:21:25 AM

Which one is Marner?

You have winned.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on July 20, 2017, 01:40:50 PM
JULLLLYYYYYYYYY

https://theleafsnation.com/2017/07/20/mitchell-marner-entertainer/

GIF PARTY
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 20, 2017, 02:25:00 PM
If one GIF is good, 23 in a single post must be [good x23]/1.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on July 26, 2017, 11:14:59 AM
http://chumam.streamon.fm/listen-pl-1271

Radio hit with Marner's trainer, Dan Noble (since grade eight?!) where he talks about Marner's physical capabilities and the plan going forward as he develops.

According to Noble:
- crazy strength to weight ratio (backsquats 400 lbs at just under 170 lbs)
- tremendous body control
- picks up complex movements just by watching


Transcript: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/07/26/leafs-links-noble-mitch-marner-pound-pound-one-strongest-players-nhl-montreal-signs-mark-streit-markovs-destination-air/

So basically, Marner is a cheetah.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on July 26, 2017, 11:55:54 AM
Beat me to it Herman. Great insight. Mitch can thrive in the new NHL. Sounds like these guys really know what they're doing. It's great to have competent folks up and down your organization from scouting to training to brass and beyond.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on July 26, 2017, 03:16:30 PM
Call it jingoism if you want, but of the 3 new kingpins on this team, Marner is my favorite. I love the speed, skill, and deceptiveness. Of the three top guys in Matthews, Nylander and Mitch, I think Marner has more of the attributes generally associated with a typical underdog-type player with his smallish size, demeanour and non-athletic looks. Him being a Canadian kid just adds to the allure for me. And I tend to agree with those that feel his ceiling could be a lot higher than a lot of people think. Top 5 in the league isn't complete out of the realm. Of the 3, I'm expecting Marner to take the biggest step forward next season.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bender on July 26, 2017, 04:53:10 PM
Man I can barely do my bodyweight in squats

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Highlander on July 26, 2017, 05:21:26 PM
I call my Fitbit, my Fatbit
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 26, 2017, 05:55:01 PM

So basically, Marner is a cheetah.

Cheerhino?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on July 26, 2017, 09:04:48 PM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on July 28, 2017, 04:25:27 PM
Marner looking to trade his Lunchables for a SnackPack ;D
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: princedpw on August 11, 2017, 12:46:19 PM
Skip down this page and watch the marner training video:

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/08/10/leafs-links-matt-martin-dont-think-ive-ever-played-guy-small-dynamic-marner-puts-show-training-video/
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: slapshot on August 15, 2017, 02:37:57 AM
I don't think anyone has brought this up - and no doubt there will be naysayers - but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it is Marner and not Nylander who gets moved to the number 2 center spot, with Kadri dropping to three.

People talk about the Bozak line now like it's the "third line" because Bozak is the 3rd slot centre, but really Marner and JVR are at least 2nd line wingers if not first.

So if Bozak gets moved at some point, Marner seems to be an equally good candidate to move to centre, probably better defensively as Nylander and an unbelievable playmakers. Perhaps, face-offs may be a challenge because of his size, but he is super smart and could even surprise there as well.

Maybe solving the forward lines looks like this eventually...

Marleau  Matthews Nylander
JVR    Marner    Kapanen/Brown/Hyman
Komarov   Kadri   Kapanen/Brown/Hyman
Martin   Moore   Kapanen/Brown/Hyman

Soshnikov / Leivo / Johnsson (back ups if JVR or Komo gets moved)
Bracco first call up for right side
Brooks first call up for center
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on August 15, 2017, 10:49:33 AM
I don't think anyone has brought this up - and no doubt there will be naysayers - but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it is Marner and not Nylander who gets moved to the number 2 center spot, with Kadri dropping to three.

People talk about the Bozak line now like it's the "third line" because Bozak is the 3rd slot centre, but really Marner and JVR are at least 2nd line wingers if not first.

So if Bozak gets moved at some point, Marner seems to be an equally good candidate to move to centre, probably better defensively as Nylander and an unbelievable playmakers. Perhaps, face-offs may be a challenge because of his size, but he is super smart and could even surprise there as well.

Maybe solving the forward lines looks like this eventually...

Marleau  Matthews Nylander
JVR    Marner    Kapanen/Brown/Hyman
Komarov   Kadri   Kapanen/Brown/Hyman
Martin   Moore   Kapanen/Brown/Hyman

Soshnikov / Leivo / Johnsson (back ups if JVR or Komo gets moved)
Bracco first call up for right side
Brooks first call up for center

Marner played very little Center in his career.  Nylander has almost always played center, except for his first season in the AHL and first season and a half in the NHL.  Coaches like to ease young players into the Center position at the pro level.  Nylander played Center in Sweden almost exclusively, and has a year full-time in the AHL at center.

Their history suggests it would be very surprising if Marner moved to center when Bozak is gone instead of Nylander.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Arn on August 15, 2017, 11:13:09 AM
We could, however, once Bozak goes and Nylander moves to centre, move Gardiner up to the wing?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on August 15, 2017, 11:39:29 AM
I don't think anyone has brought this up - and no doubt there will be naysayers - but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it is Marner and not Nylander who gets moved to the number 2 center spot, with Kadri dropping to three.

Echoing what Coco-puffs already said, we did discuss this briefly (http://www.tmlfans.ca/community/index.php?topic=4559.msg300466#msg300466) a couple of weeks ago.

That being said, Marner was the primary backchecker and distributor on his line last year, and in his last two seasons with the Knights because that's his wheelhouse. Nylander played a similar role on his line by virtue of his speed and relative position in the offensive zone set up (taking a few draws as well).

OZ forward deployment was more fluid than the labels implied as it was more volleyball-esque roles rather than positional: Digger - Passer - Shooter. Defensively and off the draw is where Left - Centre - Right actually 'mattered'.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: freer on August 15, 2017, 01:45:04 PM
Bozak is not getting moved unless they get a stud D man back! He was clearly their best face off guy. Until Marner or Nylander can prove they are as proficient he won't be moved.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bullfrog on August 15, 2017, 03:13:32 PM
Unless you're talking about how handsome he is, you're not ever getting a stud defenseman for Bozak. Bozak's a solid second line centre, who might net you a solid second line defenseman (Zaitzeff-esque.)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 15, 2017, 03:20:03 PM

The difference between someone who has very good face-off numbers like Bozak and someone who has fairly bad face-off numbers like Matthews really only adds up to one and a quarter face-offs per game which really doesn't mean much on the offensive side of things.

I think there's a good argument to be made that you want someone who's really strong in the circle for defensive zone face-offs and PKing but the Leafs have that now with Moore so Bozak(who isn't great defensively) is largely superfluous in that regard.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: slapshot on August 16, 2017, 10:42:56 PM
I don't think anyone has brought this up - and no doubt there will be naysayers - but I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it is Marner and not Nylander who gets moved to the number 2 center spot, with Kadri dropping to three.

People talk about the Bozak line now like it's the "third line" because Bozak is the 3rd slot centre, but really Marner and JVR are at least 2nd line wingers if not first.

So if Bozak gets moved at some point, Marner seems to be an equally good candidate to move to centre, probably better defensively as Nylander and an unbelievable playmakers. Perhaps, face-offs may be a challenge because of his size, but he is super smart and could even surprise there as well.

Maybe solving the forward lines looks like this eventually...

Marleau  Matthews Nylander
JVR    Marner    Kapanen/Brown/Hyman
Komarov   Kadri   Kapanen/Brown/Hyman
Martin   Moore   Kapanen/Brown/Hyman

Soshnikov / Leivo / Johnsson (back ups if JVR or Komo gets moved)
Bracco first call up for right side
Brooks first call up for center

Marner played very little Center in his career.  Nylander has almost always played center, except for his first season in the AHL and first season and a half in the NHL.  Coaches like to ease young players into the Center position at the pro level.  Nylander played Center in Sweden almost exclusively, and has a year full-time in the AHL at center.

Their history suggests it would be very surprising if Marner moved to center when Bozak is gone instead of Nylander.

Based on your post, I decided to Google Marner to see how much centre he had played. What I found was not what I had been looking for but actually more interesting.

Check out this link from two years ago. Perhaps this plan has not changed.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/mitch-marner-expects-to-play-centre-on-toronto-maple-leafs/

To me it makes sense for the reasons I already stated. Also, Nylander seems to be developing that chemistry with Matthews, so why mess with it. If I were Nylander, I think I'd be just as happy playing on the number 1 line with Matthews, racking up the points. Plus Babcock keeps saying he sees Matthews as "driving a line" and Marner as doing the same. Maybe Nylander could too, but I just have a hunch about it. I could be totally wrong, but I would not be surprised at all if it played out with Marner at centre, and this story makes it even more conceivable. Who knows what's really in the minds of Leafs management - except Leafs management.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 16, 2017, 11:26:10 PM
Check out this link from two years ago. Perhaps this plan has not changed.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/mitch-marner-expects-to-play-centre-on-toronto-maple-leafs/

I think it'd be pretty farfetched to think that winning the draft lottery and drafting Matthews hasn't affected the Leafs and their plans at C.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on September 27, 2017, 03:10:30 PM
Nightmare fuel.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on October 09, 2017, 06:31:11 PM
Mitch-ell's be-tter, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 09, 2017, 06:38:40 PM

I don't really remember the pre-draft discussion on the two being about how Strome was NHL ready and Marner wasn't. Just that Strome figured to be a C long term and Marner didn't.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 09, 2017, 08:53:52 PM

I don't really remember the pre-draft discussion on the two being about how Strome was NHL ready and Marner wasn't. Just that Strome figured to be a C long term and Marner didn't.

Climate change (and shuttering all environmental policies dedicated to diverting its course) basically means people don't need those clunky heaters anymore, and can invest in jetskis instead.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 09, 2017, 09:55:45 PM

I don't really remember the pre-draft discussion on the two being about how Strome was NHL ready and Marner wasn't. Just that Strome figured to be a C long term and Marner didn't.

Climate change (and shuttering all environmental policies dedicated to diverting its course) basically means people don't need those clunky heaters anymore, and can invest in jetskis instead.

Leaving aside my pride in creating what is perhaps one of the most legendary hockey metaphors ever coined  :o 8) :P, what Nik said.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 15, 2017, 12:37:16 PM

Anyone else sort of feeling like maybe Marner has become a little too deferential? We haven't really gotten much in the way of wow moments from him this year and I wonder if it's because he's not really being expected to drive his line.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: RedLeaf on October 15, 2017, 12:51:42 PM

Anyone else sort of feeling like maybe Marner has become a little too deferential? We haven't really gotten much in the way of wow moments from him this year and I wonder if it's because he's not really being expected to drive his line.

I think he is expected to drive that line. I recall Babcock saying those words at some point last year . My guess is, like weve seen so many times with younger players, most recently with Rielly, that hes being asked to play a more defensive detailed game with the promise that the offense will come back in time once the defensive oriented mind-set becomes instinctive . Personally I loved Marners game up until what weve seen so far early this season. Hopefully this defense-first coaching doesnt stiffle his offence  prowess too much or for too long.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 15, 2017, 01:36:51 PM

Anyone else sort of feeling like maybe Marner has become a little too deferential? We haven't really gotten much in the way of wow moments from him this year and I wonder if it's because he's not really being expected to drive his line.

I was going to ask if people felt like he's off to a bad start, or maybe playing on the perimeter a little too much.  I think other teams realize he is going to pass a lot, so they just take away his options which seems to shut him down.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 16, 2017, 09:24:23 AM

Anyone else sort of feeling like maybe Marner has become a little too deferential? We haven't really gotten much in the way of wow moments from him this year and I wonder if it's because he's not really being expected to drive his line.

I was going to ask if people felt like he's off to a bad start, or maybe playing on the perimeter a little too much.  I think other teams realize he is going to pass a lot, so they just take away his options which seems to shut him down.

Pulling this in from the Habs GDT:

The mono thing was 6 months ago, I'm pretty sure he's well past the recovery phase for it at this point. It sure didn't seem to effect him at the World Championships where he was 2nd among Canadians in scoring. I think it's perfectly fine to just say that he hasn't been at his best 5 games into the season.

I think this is mental rather than mono, for Marner. And I also think it's the opposite of deferential, but amounts to the same appearance of indecisiveness.

He said he's been trying to shoot more, which basically translates to: Marner's not playing his usual game. What that amounts to on the ice, and you can see this, is an extra second or so of decision-making that previously was not there, which means defenders and goalies are have that extra bit of time to square him up or box him out.

I'm okay with him trying to work new elements into his game throughout the regular season; practice is going to push that stuff into the instinct level and reduce thinking time and if they're good tactics, the results will come (see Hyman).
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 16, 2017, 09:28:50 AM

Anyone else sort of feeling like maybe Marner has become a little too deferential? We haven't really gotten much in the way of wow moments from him this year and I wonder if it's because he's not really being expected to drive his line.

I was going to ask if people felt like he's off to a bad start, or maybe playing on the perimeter a little too much.  I think other teams realize he is going to pass a lot, so they just take away his options which seems to shut him down.

Pulling this in from the Habs GDT:

The mono thing was 6 months ago, I'm pretty sure he's well past the recovery phase for it at this point. It sure didn't seem to effect him at the World Championships where he was 2nd among Canadians in scoring. I think it's perfectly fine to just say that he hasn't been at his best 5 games into the season.

I think this is mental rather than mono, for Marner. And I also think it's the opposite of deferential, but amounts to the same appearance of indecisiveness.

He said he's been trying to shoot more, which basically translates to: Marner's not playing his usual game. What that amounts to on the ice, and you can see this, is an extra second or so of decision-making that previously was not there, which means defenders and goalies are have that extra bit of time to square him up or box him out.

I'm okay with him trying to work new elements into his game throughout the regular season; practice is going to push that stuff into the instinct level and reduce thinking time and if they're good tactics, the results will come (see Hyman).

Yeah, I got to thinking about this a little more after Nik asked the question, and I think the Leafs as a whole haven't really played well as a team.  It shows up mostly on the Marner line.  I think they are getting by on some great individual efforts, but overall it seems like their passing just isn't there.  That could be that teams are now wise to the skills that the Leafs bring to the game, or it could be a rust thing.  I'm sure they'll turn it around, but in watching the games, it looks like they are forcing some things rather than just letting them develop naturally.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Andy on October 16, 2017, 09:35:49 AM
I don't think Marner is a good fit with his line. Bozak isn't a very good passer and JVR just kind of skates off into his own world. Defensively the former two are atrocious and that certainly can't help a young player trying to ingratiate himself into the lineup and learn a two-way game. Even strength that line struggles badly to simply exit their zone, let alone do much offensively on a consistent basis. I'd love to see Marner on Kadri's wing and a defensively-minded winger on the Bozak line.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 16, 2017, 11:21:44 AM
Twitter having a meltdown this morning because Marner and Brown have swapped lines at practice.

Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 16, 2017, 11:25:54 AM
Twitter having a meltdown this morning because Marner and Brown have swapped lines at practice.

That's Josh Leivo music...

Leivo - Moore - Marner pls pls pls pls pls pls pls
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 16, 2017, 11:29:08 AM
Also very open to:
Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Marner (though he hasn't earned it this season)
JvR - Bozak - Brown
Komarov - Moore - Leivo/Fehr
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: bustaheims on October 16, 2017, 12:50:17 PM
Twitter having a meltdown this morning because Marner and Brown have swapped lines at practice.

That's Josh Leivo music...

Leivo - Moore - Marner pls pls pls pls pls pls pls

So, other than the fact that a JvR-Bozak-Brown line would be just as much of a mess defensively, while losing a step on offence . . .

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Marleau - Kadri - Komarov
JvR - Bozak - Brown
Leivo - Moore/Fehr - Marner

Seriously, this lineup would be nigh unstoppable (slightly more nigh than they already are). Unfortunately, it won't happen, because Martin needs to play for some reason.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 16, 2017, 12:59:37 PM
So, other than the fact that a JvR-Bozak-Brown line would be just as much of a mess defensively, while losing a step on offence . . .

I'd say Brown's an improvement defensively over Marner, but yeah the two biggest defensive deficiencies on that line are JVR and Bozak, and Brown isn't going to be able to fix that.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 16, 2017, 01:02:45 PM
Babs said that the whole JVR-Bozak-Marner trio was bad against Montreal and wanted to make a change and that it ended up being Marner who goes down because the "tie goes to veteran".

Accountability!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: bustaheims on October 16, 2017, 01:10:42 PM
I'd say Brown's an improvement defensively over Marner, but yeah the two biggest defensive deficiencies on that line are JVR and Bozak, and Brown isn't going to be able to fix that.

Yeah. That was less about Marner vs Brown defensively. More about how little impact swapping them is really going to have on the overall defensive play of the line.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 16, 2017, 01:15:17 PM
This is basically precisely why I don't think trading JVR would really hurt the team as much as people think it will. The JVR-Bozak duo will ALWAYS be a trainwreck defensively. It's basically been like for years. If Babs can't fix it at this point then there's really no hope for them in their own end. But there's nowhere else to put those two. JVR isn't going to play with Matthews because of Hyman, and he isn't going to play with Kadri because that's a shutdown unit. So we'll always be stuck with the two of them together until one of them leaves.

Trade JVR, move Komarov back to the left side with Bozak and Marner, and bump Brown to Kadri's line, and you still have arguably one of the best top-9 forward groups in the league.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Coco-puffs on October 16, 2017, 01:23:11 PM
This is basically precisely why I don't think trading JVR would really hurt the team as much as people think it will. The JVR-Bozak duo will ALWAYS be a trainwreck defensively. It's basically been like for years. If Babs can't fix it at this point then there's really no hope for them in their own end. But there's nowhere else to put those two. JVR isn't going to play with Matthews because of Hyman, and he isn't going to play with Kadri because that's a shutdown unit. So we'll always be stuck with the two of them together until one of them leaves.

Trade JVR, move Komarov back to the left side with Bozak and Marner, and bump Brown to Kadri's line, and you still have arguably one of the best top-9 forward groups in the league.

At 5v5, I completely agree. I don't think we would miss JvR that much- what we lose offensively we probably gain back defensively.  On the PP, he's one of the best net front presences in the league though.

EDIT.  Adding a comment regarding lineup without JvR:

Komarov is our best defensive forward, so I don't particularily like moving him to what would probably be our sheltered third line.  Instead:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown
Marleau-Bozak-Marner
Martin-Moore/Fehr-Leivo

(Martin is only in because I'm being realistic about Babcock's lineup decisions)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 16, 2017, 01:31:07 PM
EDIT.  Adding a comment regarding lineup without JvR:

Komarov is our best defensive forward, so I don't particularily like moving him to what would probably be our sheltered third line.  Instead:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Brown
Marleau-Bozak-Marner
Martin-Moore/Fehr-Leivo

(Martin is only in because I'm being realistic about Babcock's lineup decisions)

Yeah, that's probably the better way to go actually. Marleau and Marner's speed would give 3rd pairing defencemen fits all season long.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 16, 2017, 03:28:05 PM
I think he is expected to drive that line. I recall Babcock saying those words at some point last year .

I can't speak to what Babcock may have said at some point last year but I think the team's actions don't really indicate that as being the truth. I think that at least partly explains why they've been reluctant to move on from JVR and Bozak. JVR and Bozak together can generate enough offense that for it to be a productive line you don't really need someone as talented as Marner and it looks like that comfort it setting in to some extent.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 16, 2017, 03:40:46 PM
I think this is mental rather than mono, for Marner. And I also think it's the opposite of deferential, but amounts to the same appearance of indecisiveness.

He said he's been trying to shoot more, which basically translates to: Marner's not playing his usual game. What that amounts to on the ice, and you can see this, is an extra second or so of decision-making that previously was not there, which means defenders and goalies are have that extra bit of time to square him up or box him out.

I don't think of deference in a hockey sense being about shooting vs. passing for the most part. Nick Backstrom isn't being deferential to Ovechkin when he's setting him up, that's maximizing their respective skillsets. Likewise Gretzky behind the net looking for the perfect set-up opportunity was very much in control of the situation and imposing his own style on his team.

What I've seen from Marner isn't about shooting more or less but rather about being reactive to what other guys are doing around him as opposed to making things happen. Remember one of the reasons we said last year that Matthews/Marner would be a bad match was because both guys seemed to thrive with the puck on their sticks.

Admittedly this is just a general sense I'm getting without any help from beat reporters and press releases but I do think there's a case to be made that this is a by-product of keeping that line together.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 16, 2017, 04:06:49 PM
I don't think of deference in a hockey sense being about shooting vs. passing for the most part. Nick Backstrom isn't being deferential to Ovechkin when he's setting him up, that's maximizing their respective skillsets. Likewise Gretzky behind the net looking for the perfect set-up opportunity was very much in control of the situation and imposing his own style on his team.

What I've seen from Marner isn't about shooting more or less but rather about being reactive to what other guys are doing around him as opposed to making things happen. Remember one of the reasons we said last year that Matthews/Marner would be a bad match was because both guys seemed to thrive with the puck on their sticks.

Admittedly this is just a general sense I'm getting without any help from beat reporters and press releases but I do think there's a case to be made that this is a by-product of keeping that line together.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant by deferential. In light of that, I can see what you mean.

In the past, when Marner has slumped, they've been the result of confidence issues. I think you're spot on in calling him reactive, rather than imposing his game and dictating his pace.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 16, 2017, 10:43:40 PM
Marner will be fine as soon as the first snow falls.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 21, 2017, 10:47:07 PM
I don't think of deference in a hockey sense being about shooting vs. passing for the most part. Nick Backstrom isn't being deferential to Ovechkin when he's setting him up, that's maximizing their respective skillsets. Likewise Gretzky behind the net looking for the perfect set-up opportunity was very much in control of the situation and imposing his own style on his team.

What I've seen from Marner isn't about shooting more or less but rather about being reactive to what other guys are doing around him as opposed to making things happen. Remember one of the reasons we said last year that Matthews/Marner would be a bad match was because both guys seemed to thrive with the puck on their sticks.

Admittedly this is just a general sense I'm getting without any help from beat reporters and press releases but I do think there's a case to be made that this is a by-product of keeping that line together.

Thanks for clarifying what you meant by deferential. In light of that, I can see what you mean.

In the past, when Marner has slumped, they've been the result of confidence issues. I think you're spot on in calling him reactive, rather than imposing his game and dictating his pace.

Whatever it is, he's definitely in a slump right now. 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: TML fan on October 23, 2017, 03:35:44 AM
I'd hate to see Marner take a step backwards this year. It will raise questions, no doubt, but I think a little bit of regression was bound to happen to such a young team. You don't want to see it from a guy like Marner because a lot of this team's success is riding on him, but we may be forced to be more patient than we'd like based on the relative success of last season.

It's still early. It may be nothing. If he's good enough like we all (or mostly) think he is, he will bounce back.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: KadriFan on October 23, 2017, 06:27:33 AM
I think he will be playing center before long. 
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Bullfrog on October 23, 2017, 10:22:11 AM
He's 20 years old and it's eight games into the season. I'm not too concerned at this point.

It is nice to see Babcock's been giving him some opportunities with other scorers lately (after PK shifts, etc.)
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 24, 2017, 09:58:28 AM
Causes for concern:
https://theathletic.com/133419/2017/10/20/bourne-has-mitch-marner-been-bad-enough-defensively-to-deserve-the-fourth-line-yes/

Why has Marner looked off in the early goings?

Not going to spoil the article, but the reasons are all mental/confidence related and definitely fixable.

https://theathletic.com/136197/2017/10/24/mitch-marner-shows-hes-ready-to-move-higher-in-the-leafs-lineup/

We saw a more confident and effective Marner last night against the Kings, and it's infecting everyone around him (Martin, Moore).
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 24, 2017, 04:33:28 PM

They are about as Father/Son (age-wise) as Amy Poehler and Rachel McAdams were Mother/Daughter.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Frank E on October 24, 2017, 05:17:02 PM
There's definitely a lot of glue there with Martin and the younger guys...I wonder how much of it translates into a better hockey club with Martin in lineup vs. out, but still, there's obviously a lot of love there.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 24, 2017, 05:34:34 PM
Martin is serviceable. I don't like that we felt we needed him and his role, or his contract, or that he is occupying a spot that would likely be better served by a more skilled player (Leivo, Rychel, Kapanen, et al.), or that his presence sort of limits the style of the 4th line unless it is dragged up.

I am okay that the spot being designated for him is the lowest impact position.

I'm thrilled that he's not a grumpy cat and that everybody likes him and appreciates him. I think he's got more to his game than what he showed last season (adjusting to a new team and city), and I think the more time he spends with the skilled players and skills coaches in practice, the more effective he can be at puck separation (no one cares about fighting).
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: slapshot on October 26, 2017, 05:40:01 PM
Martin is like an insurance policy, something you don't think you need until you actually do. Granted the league has changed, tough guys have to be able to actually play, and I think Martin is fine. He takes his man, he's not stupid with the puck (makes simple plays) and is not a liability defensively. When the going gets tough in playoff time, it will be very useful to have that insurance policy. Though it's no longer a fighting league, teams will still exploit talented players by hammering them if they think there is no one there to keep them in check, to be accountable to. With all the firepower the Leafs have, I think we can afford one spot for that kind of insurance. Plus when his sticks up for his teammates it has a positive reaction for the team up on the bench.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 26, 2017, 05:53:48 PM

That is by far the strangest view I've ever seen on insurance policies.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 26, 2017, 06:01:18 PM

Although, if you think about it, enforcers are a little bit like insurance policies. They don't actually prevent anything bad from happening and getting compensation when they do tends to be a more complicated process than advertised.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Arn on October 26, 2017, 06:01:35 PM

That is by far the strangest view I've ever seen on insurance policies.

I dunno. I'd rank it a close second behind Trump
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on October 26, 2017, 06:15:13 PM
Martin is like an insurance policy, something you don't think you need until you actually do. Granted the league has changed, tough guys have to be able to actually play, and I think Martin is fine. He takes his man, he's not stupid with the puck (makes simple plays) and is not a liability defensively. When the going gets tough in playoff time, it will be very useful to have that insurance policy. Though it's no longer a fighting league, teams will still exploit talented players by hammering them if they think there is no one there to keep them in check, to be accountable to. With all the firepower the Leafs have, I think we can afford one spot for that kind of insurance. Plus when his sticks up for his teammates it has a positive reaction for the team up on the bench.

You just described the player we already had dedicated to this role who is even more effective: Komarov.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on October 26, 2017, 06:24:02 PM
Martin is like an insurance policy, something you don't think you need until you actually do. Granted the league has changed, tough guys have to be able to actually play, and I think Martin is fine. He takes his man, he's not stupid with the puck (makes simple plays) and is not a liability defensively. When the going gets tough in playoff time, it will be very useful to have that insurance policy. Though it's no longer a fighting league, teams will still exploit talented players by hammering them if they think there is no one there to keep them in check, to be accountable to. With all the firepower the Leafs have, I think we can afford one spot for that kind of insurance. Plus when his sticks up for his teammates it has a positive reaction for the team up on the bench.

I agree, it's an extra layer of accountability for your opponents when you have superstars. Evidently Babcock sees the value in having that over the minor skill trade-off between a serviceable goon and different twelfth forward.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: bustaheims on October 26, 2017, 06:49:26 PM
Although, if you think about it, enforcers are a little bit like insurance policies. They don't actually prevent anything bad from happening and getting compensation when they do tends to be a more complicated process than advertised.

This is probably the most accurate representation of fighters as insurance I've ever seen.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on November 10, 2017, 10:15:26 PM
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: hockeyfan1 on November 11, 2017, 03:43:12 AM


That's why he's Magical Mitch!
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: sickbeast on November 11, 2017, 12:31:51 PM
The end of the game last night was pure gold.  It's the hockey equivalent of a walk off grand slam in the bottom of the ninth.  I really enjoyed it.  The best part was that Marner was so critical to the OT comeback win.  He'll figure it out, he is going to be an elite player in the NHL for a long time.  He has the right coaches and the right people around him to help him improve his defensive play.  Look at Kadri, he had way bigger goat horns a few years ago, and look at him now.  I know he was kept off the score sheet but he was wreaking havoc all night creating great chances, he almost scored multiple times.  Kadri is on pace for at least 35 goals this season.  He's kind of flying under the radar but he has been one of the Leafs' best players so far this season.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Andy on November 11, 2017, 02:29:26 PM
Agreed on Kadri. He was great last night and I think he'd actually get my vote as the Leaf MVP so far. He just does so much with and away from the puck, all the while playing against other teams' top lines and getting the majority of defensive zone starts. His contract is an absolute steal.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 17, 2017, 08:39:30 PM
Quick question.  Would anybody here be upset if the Leafs traded Mitch Marner for Zach Werenski straight up?

Second quick questions.  In hindsight, should the Leafs have drafted Zach Werenski instead of Mitch Marner?
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 17, 2017, 09:13:55 PM
Quick question.  Would anybody here be upset if the Leafs traded Mitch Marner for Zach Werenski straight up?

Second quick questions.  In hindsight, should the Leafs have drafted Zach Werenski instead of Mitch Marner?

If Arizona picked Marner, the Leafs were ready to trade down and pick up either Provorov or Werenski +. Marner can be a game breaker though, so Id think about a one-for-one, but only if Bracco/Johnsson hit 85+% of Marner (which they arent likely to).
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 17, 2017, 09:41:23 PM
Quick question.  Would anybody here be upset if the Leafs traded Mitch Marner for Zach Werenski straight up?

Second quick questions.  In hindsight, should the Leafs have drafted Zach Werenski instead of Mitch Marner?

If Arizona picked Marner, the Leafs were ready to trade down and pick up either Provorov or Werenski +. Marner can be a game breaker though, so Id think about a one-for-one, but only if Bracco/Johnsson hit 85+% of Marner (which they arent likely to).

Yeah, I'm advocate of keeping Marner.  I think that having game breakers like him and Nylander help the Leafs win games.  As we saw last night, having that element gives them an edge.  Werenski scored tonight, so I just started looking at his stats.  I found it interesting that the too have played the exact same number of games.  Werenski is 16 points behind Marner for career points at this time.  I can't help but wonder thought what the Leafs would look like with someone like Werenski on the back end.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: herman on November 17, 2017, 11:22:22 PM
Yeah, I'm advocate of keeping Marner.  I think that having game breakers like him and Nylander help the Leafs win games.  As we saw last night, having that element gives them an edge.  Werenski scored tonight, so I just started looking at his stats.  I found it interesting that the too have played the exact same number of games.  Werenski is 16 points behind Marner for career points at this time.  I can't help but wonder thought what the Leafs would look like with someone like Werenski on the back end.

A player like Marner helps drive a whole line. We saw last year how good the team could be when 3 full threats could be rolled out. And we saw last year and early this year how much of a factor Marner was to his line's success. I value having multiple scoring lines more than another offensive LD.
Title: Re: Mitch Marner
Post by: disco on November 19, 2017, 05:31:59 PM
(https://images.thestar.com/content/dam/thestar/sports/leafs/2017/09/07/maple-leafs-mitch-marner-has-ardour-for-the-argonauts/marner-argos.jpg.size-custom-crop.1086x0.jpg)