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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Marlies & Prospect Talk => Topic started by: Nik the Trik on October 05, 2016, 08:01:26 AM

Title: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 05, 2016, 08:01:26 AM

Obviously it's very early for this and we don't know where the Leafs will be drafting but I thought it merited a thread at least in part just to mention that it looks like Jeff Marek is sort of being positioned as Sportsnet's Draft Guru. He released a very preliminary Top 31:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/sportsnets-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-october-jeff-marek/ (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/sportsnets-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-october-jeff-marek/)

Nothing new. Patrick #1, Liljegren #2.

Anyways, apparently they'll also be doing a draft-focused podcast so we're definitely going to have a ton of information throughout the year.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 05, 2016, 08:22:19 AM
Nice to see Marek doing these instead of Cox, who I'm pretty sure Sportsnet just threw on the assignment when they got the NHL rights because he was the closest they had to Bob McKenzie.

Speaking of Bob, here's his 2017 early rankings: http://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-s-pre-season-ranking-the-nolan-patrick-draft-1.567410

We've talked about this here and there before, but not a lot of defencemen present on these lists.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 05, 2016, 09:34:04 AM
We've started to hear more rumblings about this draft recently, I wonder if it's as weak as is being made out.

I've even seen some people question Patrick's ceiling, for those that have seen him work, is he a franchise level prospect?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Kaberle15 on October 05, 2016, 12:03:51 PM
It would be awesome to draft a defenceman...

2. Timothy Liljegren: The Swede is the undisputed top defenceman in this draft and, at this point, it's not even close.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: mr grieves on March 05, 2017, 06:58:57 PM
Looked up some reports on 2017 class defensemen who were in the mid-1st to mid-2nd round, according to NHL Central Scouting’s midterm rankings…. the scouting reports are from the Draft Site (long passages) (https://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2017/) and shorter takes are from Marek's rankings. 

NA9. Juuso Valimaki, D, Tri-City (WHL) — The two-way defenseman has brought more assertiveness to his game in his second WHL season. Valimaki (6-1, 204) has 39 points (12 goals, 27 assists) in 38 games and has shown more offensive drive and confidence in his game… A solid, safe blueliner who excels in all areas... Smart mobile defenseman with excellent feet and feel for the defensive zone. captained the Finnish U-18 team vocally displays his high hockey IQ, keeping his teammates on task. Besides prototypical size, he great puck handling skills to go along with his agility. This season, he has boasted his offensive totals considerably. That would be a signal that he is improving at the offensive end. He even had a hat trick this season against Vancouver in the WHL. He is not a riverboat gambling rocket out of his own end leading the rush type player. On the contrary, he seems to always be the last one out of his end because he plays such a solid and safe defensive game. You will see him make a tape to tape outlet passes in transition, but rarely leads the throops out. He will activate and calmly keep it until he is all the way down low. He will have to continue to get more handles and more time with the puck, to gain more confidence as an offensive generator. It is hard to argue against his point a game pace in the Dub, but he still has to develop a bit more instinct as a confident attacker at the higher levels. It seems a bit harsh on my part to be asking for more, even though I have him on the cusp of the first half of the first round, but there is untapped potential there. Not overly physical, but clears out the front uses his size well down low. Has a big frame that can get bigger. Great vision, puck-handling and accurate will be the bonuses that will come along with his safe, consistent mistake free play play in his own end.

NA10. Cale Makar, D, Brooks (AJHL) — Makar (5-11, 179), winner of the 2015-16 Alberta Junior Hockey League and Canadian Junior Hockey League Rookie of the Year, has continued his stellar play and development. He's a dynamic skater with quickness and elusiveness with or without the puck… This small defender has all the making of a future NHL offenseman. Seems to be in constant motion, and able to intercept pucks and turn them in to quick strikes towards his opponent's net. Very undersized and will need plenty more muscle as he continues his development. Cleary one of the smarter and better offensively talented dee-men in the class. The PP QB on his Alberta Junior League team, and has a quick release of a point shot that he gets off without taking a big backswing. He displays strong wrists take enable him to get strenght on his shots and zip on his passes. After being selected to play in the World junior Challenge it what might have been viewed as a step up in competition compared to the players he faces in the AJHL, he looked dominant in many phases, using his lateral agility and athletic strides to cut through the neutral zone, activating to open space on the give and go, and reading ensuing plays and covering huge areas of the ice with his feet. His speed and good edging work in consort with his ability to handle the puck at top speed. When he is doesn't have the puck, he looks to jump on errant passes or ones sent cross ice changing possessions. Will pinch but always gets back in position in a few strides becuase he so quick. Holds a strong gap. This is a player who creates space and time and plays smart. More of long term development project but he is a player.

NA11. Nicholas Hague, D, Mississauga Steelheads (OHL) --  Evaluating Hague means checking a lot of boxes. A big bodied blueliner (6-foot-6) with a solid first season in the OHL under his belt. Many nights he was Mississauga’s best defenceman. Runs the power play, has a nasty streak and won the OHL’s academic award last season. Scouts have some concern about his skating while others maintain he’s a bona fide top-10 pick and the skating isn’t an issue at all. [Marek, Oct] … Potential big defender in more ways than one. NHL teams continue to have their love affair with huge men at the defensive position who have upside to be top four defenders, since in general the dee-men are getting smaller. For a fellow his size, he has excellent mobility and overall strength He puts his long stick in the passing lanes and covers ground pretty quickly. Uses his size along the wall and can throw devastating bodychecks. When on the back pedal, he doesn't pivot as quickly as smaller men, but attackers trying to go wide find out how strong he is and long his stick is. Enjoys playing with an edge. He is growing more of his offensive game, by activated on the rush, and attempting to handle the puck more and more. Still needs work and must hone his carries and be more frugal in the time he holds onto it. Not the finished product, but there will not be a shortage of NHL teams considering him before the bottom third of the first round

NA12. Cal Foote, D, Kelowna Rockets (WHL) -- The defenceman factory in Kelowna is still open for business. Now serving: the son of former NHLer Adam Foote. Cal Foote plays a sound defensive role but can also chip in offensively. He has a bullet from the point, but seems to always default to the pass first. He’s loved by his teammates and has captain material... Second generation stud blueliner has improved his skating and does a number of things for the Rockets. He's good with the puck but does he push the pace enough? Scouts wonder. [Marek, Nov]… The 6-3, 213-pound son of former NHL defenseman Adam Foote probably won't be the physical presence his father was, but plays all situations and uses his smarts, reach and strength to contain his opponent and gain position. .. Big defenseman with a big point shot. Not necessarily a polished puck carrier, but is surprisingly agile going East-West, so he is excellent in his own end to cover attackers and space. uses his size to win wall and battle zone possessions and will clear the front. No mean streak, but is a really solid competitor for 60 minutes. Plays on both the penalty kill and the power play. Excellent hockey sense and reads his own end well. Stays square on rushers and takes them outside, using his stick to take way their time and space. Very good on his feet and light on his edging, and able to play strong on the puck. Has a good low shot that he places on the net. Needs to fill out and get stronger. The Kelowna system has developed many NHL defenders so he seems in a good position to improve and get selected fairly early. Great bloodlines with his father Adam Foote.

NA22. Henri Jokiharju, D, Portland (WHL) — In his first season in North America, Jokiharju (6-0, 176) has performed very well, with 31 points (six goals, 25 assists) in 44 games. He's an excellent skater, elusive with the puck and can beat the forecheck with a pass or his feet. He had three assists in seven games to help Finland win the gold medal at the 2016 World U-18 Championship.


EU6. Miro Heiskanen, D, HIFK Helsinki (Fin) — Undersized defenseman who continues to shine impressively in every international showing. Although he is slightly built and in need of beef and more muscle, he is very athletic,and has shown himself an equal to the grown men playing against him in the Finnish pro league. He possesses high end mobility, agility, an excellent skating stride and vision and makes solid defensive zone reads. A four-direction skater who easily transitions to his back pedal and calmly handles the attacker when middle zone turnovers happen. He is very good around his own net,and has a very active stick, clogs lanes and either moves the puck to the right place in transitions, or will skate the puck out, even under pressure. Plays calm and makes good decisions under pressure in his own end. Anticipates well and reads and activates from the defensive position flawlessly, as he carries and passes the puck so well. A power play quarterback who distributes well and gets it on net when he shoots. The negatives is he may not be able to get that much bigger and needs girth and muscle. So he is what he is: a extremely agile puck carrier who simply is not a big man. Hasn't the NHL had room for a few of these?
EU8. Urho Vaakanainen, D, JYP (Liiga) His game includes a strong offensive element that can handle quarterbacking a power play. Solid all-around skills. [Marek, Oct]… An intelligent, two-way defender (6-0, 185) who can read the play well, has good vision and a strong skill set that includes skating, passing and an accurate shot. He is a reliable team player and has a sound defensive game.

EU10. Filip Westerlund, D, Frolunda (SHL) -- After Jacob Larsson found his spot in the Anaheim Ducks organization, Westerlund was given a chance with the Swedish powerhouse and has made the most of it, playing regular minutes in the country's top league—surprising considering the right-hand shot defenceman didn’t play big minutes with the U-20 team last season. His development year over year has been described as spectacular. He models his game after Sami Vatanen and has been compared to both Larsson and Erik Karlsson. — His hockey sense, puck control and intelligence stand out the most to scouts. Westerlund (5-11, 179) has poise and makes smart decisions. He averages 12 minutes per game on a strong Frolunda team.

EU16. Erik Brannstrom, D, HV71 (Sweden) — can’t find a quick summary on him, but here’s an article comparing him to Kimo Timonen. (http://thehockeywriters.com/erik-brannstrom-let-him-entertain-you/)
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: mr grieves on March 07, 2017, 10:47:18 AM
The above might've been overkill...

A draft thought that fits in a small paragraph:

We often seem to assume that the only drafted defensemen who can move the needle before they hit the traditional "defenseman's prime" (26-27 or so), but, unless we're defining "move the needle" as "be a #1D who'll be a Norris candidate and on the national team by his early 20s," I don't think that's true. There are players drafted in the late-1st and into the mid-3rd who are in NHL lineups and are, by Corsi and GF%, legit top-4s by the time they're 21. Perhaps the Leafs can find one of those.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on March 08, 2017, 02:29:45 PM
Not knowing about this thread, I dumped some thoughts into another one titled exactly the same thing last year.

Here's Marek's update:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/sportsnets-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-march/

Anyway, if we were not landing Liljegren, I hoped we could snag Cale Makar. Unfortunately, it looks like he is rising higher than we are falling in the standings.

My Round 2-3 options:
Artyom Minulin (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=312207): very smart RHD, excelling despite playing on a weak Swift Current squad, good all-round puck mover
Josh Brook (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=201551): RHD, smart, smooth skating, distributes well, heavy wrister; points spiked this year compared to last
Conor Timmins (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=267584): RHD on the SSM Greyhounds, heady, consistent, plays all situations
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 08, 2017, 02:38:30 PM

I speak out of near total ignorance but that run on defenseman between 10-17 on Marek's list looks like a place to aim for. Doesn't seem to have much in the homerun-swing department but the chances of emerging with a solid D prospect seems reasonable.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on March 08, 2017, 02:42:14 PM

I speak out of near total ignorance but that run on defenseman between 10-17 on Marek's list looks like a place to aim for. Doesn't seem to have much in the homerun-swing department but the chances of emerging with a solid D prospect seems reasonable.

Spinning a JvR/Bozak into one or two more of these picks would not be too shabby.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 08, 2017, 03:03:46 PM

I speak out of near total ignorance but that run on defenseman between 10-17 on Marek's list looks like a place to aim for. Doesn't seem to have much in the homerun-swing department but the chances of emerging with a solid D prospect seems reasonable.

Spinning a JvR/Bozak into one or two more of these picks would not be too shabby.

I'm sure it's wishful thinking on my part but on the Marek/Wyshinski podcast Marek seemed to kind of say that there's a consensus forming on the top 2 with Patrick and Hischier but there's a degree of uncertainty after that.

So if you're wheeling and dealing looking to get into the top 15 it seems like there's a chance to trade into Liljegren territory? Again, wishful thinking on my part probably but I can dream.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: mr grieves on March 08, 2017, 03:10:54 PM
Anyway, if we were not landing Liljegren, I hoped we could snag Cale Makar. Unfortunately, it looks like he is rising higher than we are falling in the standings.

My Round 2-3 options:
Artyom Minulin (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=312207): very smart RHD, excelling despite playing on a weak Swift Current squad, good all-round puck mover
Josh Brook (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=201551): RHD, smart, smooth skating, distributes well, heavy wrister; points spiked this year compared to last
Conor Timmins (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=267584): RHD on the SSM Greyhounds, heady, consistent, plays all situations

It looks like a good year for Swedes and Finns who play defense.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on March 08, 2017, 03:20:19 PM
I'm sure it's wishful thinking on my part but on the Marek/Wyshinski podcast Marek seemed to kind of say that there's a consensus forming on the top 2 with Patrick and Hischier but there's a degree of uncertainty after that.

So if you're wheeling and dealing looking to get into the top 15 it seems like there's a chance to trade into Liljegren territory? Again, wishful thinking on my part probably but I can dream.

New Jersey and Carolina might be my top teams to target with JvR or Bozak. They're both short on scoring depth, close to turning the corner, need wins next year for $$$, have defensive prospects to work with, both value the relatively cheap deals those two are on.

If the lottery goes poorly for them, they're still in the top 10, but JvR/Bozak will be immediately better than any pick there. Coupled with our likely 14-18th pick, I think we can move up (maybe into Vegas' slot as they're more quantity over quality at this point).
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 08, 2017, 03:21:28 PM
It'll be interesting to see how far Liljegren's stock falls. At the beginning of the season he was seen as going top-2 for sure, maybe even challenging for 1st overall. Now ISS has him ranked 5th. Hockeyprospect.com and Corey Pronman both have him 7th. McKeens has him 8th. Getting mono obviously hurt him and that's not something that he can control, but there's still been more than a few concerns about his hockey sense.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on March 08, 2017, 03:49:05 PM
It looks like a good year for Swedes and Finns who play defense.

Most of them, save for Liljegren, are lefties. I was initially targeting RHD because they're the Left Handed Pitchers of the NHL and I consider that more valuable down the line.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: mr grieves on March 08, 2017, 04:41:14 PM
It looks like a good year for Swedes and Finns who play defense.

Most of them, save for Liljegren, are lefties. I was initially targeting RHD because they're the Left Handed Pitchers of the NHL and I consider that more valuable down the line.

Yeah, that's why I'm hoping for Cal Foote or Cale Makar -- one of whom might be around in the 15-20 range -- and like the looks of Henri Jokiharju and Filip Westerlund in the 2nd round.

The latter sounds promising, based on Marek's November column (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/sportsnets-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-november/):
Quote
Don’t Sleep On
Filip Westerlund, D, Frolunda (SHL) After Jacob Larsson found his spot in the Anaheim Ducks organization, Westerlund was given a chance with the Swedish powerhouse and has made the most of it, playing regular minutes in the country's top league—surprising considering the right-hand shot defenceman didn’t play big minutes with the U-20 team last season. His development year over year has been described as spectacular. He models his game after Sami Vatanen and has been compared to both Larsson and Erik Karlsson.

Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 08, 2017, 05:14:50 PM
Most of them, save for Liljegren, are lefties. I was initially targeting RHD because they're the Left Handed Pitchers of the NHL and I consider that more valuable down the line.

I have to say, after watching this team over the last few weeks, I really think they need to go with best defenseman available and let Babcock's LD/RD fetish work itself out.

Which, honestly, is how 99% of major league managers will build a rotation.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on March 08, 2017, 09:41:39 PM
Most of them, save for Liljegren, are lefties. I was initially targeting RHD because they're the Left Handed Pitchers of the NHL and I consider that more valuable down the line.

I have to say, after watching this team over the last few weeks, I really think they need to go with best defenseman available and let Babcock's LD/RD fetish work itself out.

Which, honestly, is how 99% of major league managers will build a rotation.

I agree, but our pipeline is pretty lopsided too.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 08, 2017, 09:57:24 PM
I agree, but our pipeline is pretty lopsided too.

Sure but the problem of having just way too many All-Star LHD seems like a bridge we can endeavor to cross when we get there.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on March 08, 2017, 10:15:40 PM
I agree, but our pipeline is pretty lopsided too.

Sure but the problem of having just way too many All-Star LHD seems like a bridge we can endeavor to cross when we get there.

That'd be a nice problem. I just wouldn't mind having too many RHD, as they're more valuable (rarer) around the league and make for stronger trade chips. As it stands, I'm okay with the Leafs prioritizing non-wingers in the draft in general. If there's a tie breaker to be had at a slot, I'm leaning RHD.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 08, 2017, 10:29:39 PM
That'd be a nice problem. I just wouldn't mind having too many RHD, as they're more valuable (rarer) around the league and make for stronger trade chips.

There's a phrase about beggars being impeccable choosers that comes to mind.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Gilmour the Great on March 09, 2017, 03:32:58 AM
That'd be a nice problem. I just wouldn't mind having too many RHD, as they're more valuable (rarer) around the league and make for stronger trade chips.

There's a phrase about beggars being impeccable choosers that comes to mind.

Draft picks are gifts?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on March 09, 2017, 09:11:18 AM
There's a phrase about beggars being impeccable choosers that comes to mind.

Going by the mechanics of the draft, I'm not sure it directly applies, but I understand the point you're making.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on April 24, 2017, 12:30:16 PM
We will be picking either 17th or 18th.

Unlikely, but hopefully:
Timothy Liljegren

Defenders that might be in our range in rounds 1 and 2:
Miro Heiskanen
Cale Makar
Juuso Välimäki
Cal Foote
Conor Timmins
Pierre-Olivier Joseph
Erik Brännström
Nicolas Hague
Josh Brook
Urho Vaakanainen
Henri Jokiharju

Also open to feeding our pick + prospect to jump into the top 10, say... Detroit's 7th, as they need to rebuild, or JvR to New Jersey for their 5th + whatever because they need affordable scoring and a reason to put bums in seats sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on April 24, 2017, 01:11:34 PM
www.twitter.com/307x/status/846728371245592577

For Carlton:
www.twitter.com/307x/status/846787106278199297
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: louisstamos on April 24, 2017, 01:19:52 PM
We will be picking either 17th or 18th.

Unlikely, but hopefully:
Timothy Liljegren

Defenders that might be in our range in rounds 1 and 2:
Miro Heiskanen
Cale Makar
Juuso Välimäki
Cal Foote
Conor Timmins
Pierre-Olivier Joseph
Erik Brännström
Nicolas Hague
Josh Brook
Urho Vaakanainen
Henri Jokiharju

Also open to feeding our pick + prospect to jump into the top 10, say... Detroit's 7th, as they need to rebuild, or JvR to New Jersey for their 5th + whatever because they need affordable scoring and a reason to put bums in seats sooner rather than later.

Liljegren has actually dropped in a few rankings.  The one on NHL.com now has him listed as the 6th best European skater (http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftprospectbrowse.htm?cat=2&sort=finalRank&year=2017).  If there's any chance he drops that far, I would take him.  Barring that, Cal Foote and Cale Makar I'd be interested in (although the latter is on the smaller size).
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 24, 2017, 01:22:06 PM
For Carlton:

Why do you hate me?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on April 24, 2017, 01:33:32 PM
For Carlton:

Why do you hate me?

I hear salt sterilizes wounds.

Also: I was on that bandwagon too.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: mr grieves on April 24, 2017, 09:03:44 PM
We will be picking either 17th or 18th.

Unlikely, but hopefully:
Timothy Liljegren

Defenders that might be in our range in rounds 1 and 2:
Miro Heiskanen
Cale Makar
Juuso Välimäki
Cal Foote
Conor Timmins
Pierre-Olivier Joseph
Erik Brännström
Nicolas Hague
Josh Brook
Urho Vaakanainen
Henri Jokiharju

Also open to feeding our pick + prospect to jump into the top 10, say... Detroit's 7th, as they need to rebuild, or JvR to New Jersey for their 5th + whatever because they need affordable scoring and a reason to put bums in seats sooner rather than later.

It looks like a pretty good year to be drafting mid-1st. There's a sizable pool of promising defenseman prospects from which, hopefully, a good scouting department will find someone who'll turn out.   
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on April 25, 2017, 09:02:54 AM
It looks like a pretty good year to be drafting mid-1st. There's a sizable pool of promising defenseman prospects from which, hopefully, a good scouting department will find someone who'll turn out.

There's always money in the Banana Stand.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Britishbulldog on April 25, 2017, 10:06:34 AM
It looks like a pretty good year to be drafting mid-1st. There's a sizable pool of promising defenseman prospects from which, hopefully, a good scouting department will find someone who'll turn out.

There's always money in the Banana Stand.

Let's light it on fire!  Go Leafs drafting!
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 01, 2017, 09:36:20 AM
Samuel Girard, don't read this...

...

...

...

Erik Brannstrom... hello. (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/5/1/15443476/toronto-maple-leafs-entry-draft-target-swedish-defenceman-erik-brannstrom-2017)
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 01, 2017, 09:41:59 AM

Well, that one article was all I needed. Brannstrom it is then.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 01, 2017, 10:08:50 AM

Well, that one article was all I needed. Brannstrom it is then.

I just realized that if the Preds lose in round 2 they'll pick 16th overall and the Leafs will go 2 picks after that.

If that happens and they draft Brannstrom after nabbing Fabbro, Girard, AND Allard last year I will literally burn Nashville to the ground. You with me?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 01, 2017, 10:22:20 AM

Well, that one article was all I needed. Brannstrom it is then.

I just realized that if the Preds lose in round 2 they'll pick 16th overall and the Leafs will go 2 picks after that.

If that happens and they draft Brannstrom after nabbing Fabbro, Girard, AND Allard last year I will literally burn Nashville to the ground. You with me?

My hope is they flame out in the 3rd round due to lack of scoring depth, and overreact in the summer by taking JvR for Girard+2018 1st (since their defense is pretty locked in already).
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 01, 2017, 10:24:20 AM
I just realized that if the Preds lose in round 2 they'll pick 16th overall and the Leafs will go 2 picks after that.

If that happens and they draft Brannstrom after nabbing Fabbro, Girard, AND Allard last year I will literally burn Nashville to the ground. You with me?

If you think about it, the Preds doing all that last year really just makes them all the more likely to spend this year's draft reaching for unimpressive overagers.

Time is a flat circle.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 08, 2017, 08:32:13 AM
I just realized that if the Preds lose in round 2 they'll pick 16th overall and the Leafs will go 2 picks after that.

If that happens and they draft Brannstrom after nabbing Fabbro, Girard, AND Allard last year I will literally burn Nashville to the ground. You with me?

Crisis averted?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 08, 2017, 09:31:56 AM
I just realized that if the Preds lose in round 2 they'll pick 16th overall and the Leafs will go 2 picks after that.

If that happens and they draft Brannstrom after nabbing Fabbro, Girard, AND Allard last year I will literally burn Nashville to the ground. You with me?

Crisis averted?

For now.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 08, 2017, 09:35:51 AM
5 minutes of Erik Brannstrom highlights from an U18 tournament recently:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGtmjlIzTi0[/youtube]

I hope Lou has his jersey already made up.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 08, 2017, 09:54:29 AM
Brannstrom plays a bit like a Rielly-Marner hybrid.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 08, 2017, 10:10:48 AM
Brannstrom plays a bit like a Rielly-Marner hybrid.

The highlights reminded me a lot of Ghostbear, but yeah that works too.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 08, 2017, 10:18:23 AM
Brannstrom plays a bit like a Rielly-Marner hybrid.

The highlights reminded me a lot of Ghostbear, but yeah that works too.

Ghostbear, definitely on the spin-offs at the line and shot selection at the circles.

The slightly hunched skating form/speed and general offense-always mode is very Rielly, and the vision and puck-holding/passing is very Marner to me.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 08, 2017, 10:38:55 AM
Ghostbear, definitely on the spin-offs at the line and shot selection at the circles.

The slightly hunched skating form/speed and general offense-always mode is very Rielly, and the vision and puck-holding/passing is very Marner to me.

Yeah his shot is what really stood out as Ghostbear-like to me. Anyway, I know that everybody looks good when you make a highlight package for them, but based on everything I've read and seen it really boggles my mind that he isn't being talked about for a much higher draft pick. Particularly since we've been seeing more and more small players getting drafted higher up lately.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 08, 2017, 10:45:57 AM
Yeah his shot is what really stood out as Ghostbear-like to me. Anyway, I know that everybody looks good when you make a highlight package for them, but based on everything I've read and seen it really boggles my mind that he isn't being talked about for a much higher draft pick. Particularly since we've been seeing more and more small players getting drafted higher up lately.

Size bias is much stronger on the backend, but not without reason. Carrick mentioned this towards the end of the season: being a smaller defenseman makes things a great deal more difficult as when the smaller defenseman is fully extended in reach, the larger attacker he's fending off still has room to go and can leverage further.

There's still a lot of net-clearing required in scouts/managers' minds. Where this Leafs' management team has acquired smaller defensemen, they've been of dwarvish strength and stoutness (Carrick, Dermott).
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2017, 12:02:22 PM
Pronman released his final 2017 draft rankings: http://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/story/_/id/19416323/nhl-top-100-draft-prospect-rankings

He has future Leaf Erik Branstrom ranked 11th, the 2nd highest ranking for a defenceman:

Quote
11. Erik Brannstrom, D, HV 71 (SHL)
DOB: 9/02/99 | Ht: 5' 10.0" | Wt: 173
2016-17 stats: 35 GP | 1 G | 5 A

Brannstrom is a favorite of mine relative to the opinions of many scouts. I've been very impressed the past two to three seasons, and I think he has a good pro ceiling. He's a small defenseman at 5-foot-10, but he does a lot well. Brannstrom is a great skater, is gifted on his edges and has a good top gear. He can make plays in open ice because though his puck skills aren't fantastic, they are solid, and his feet and great vision allow him to make a lot happen. His defense could use a little tweaking, as I've seen him make errors he shouldn't, but he has still displayed the ability to play tough minutes. Despite the occasional gaffe, his hockey IQ shines most shifts. Although he is small, Brannstrom has an edge to his game as well.

Liljegren comes in shortly after at 13th:

Quote
13. Timothy Liljegren, D, Rogle (SHL)
DOB: 4/30/99 | Ht: 6' 0.0" | Wt: 191
2016-17 stats: 19 GP | 1 G | 4 A

Liljegren missed a sizeable chunk of the season due to mono. When healthy, he's one of the most dynamic offensive defensemen of the past few draft classes. You can tell when Liljegren has the puck. "He was able to quarterback a SHL power play when he was 16. You just don't see that," noted one scout. He's quite creative and quite skilled. He can make the in-tight plays and control the puck in ways that distinguish him as a puck mover. LIljegren skates very well and can get up in a rush, but it's his skill and offensive mind that elevate him to the highest levels. Although he's a very imaginative and effective puck mover, he can get himself into trouble. He gives the puck away a lot going for the one extra play. His defense isn't elite, but it's decent, as he can make a check and not get completely killed in his own end without the puck; however, there are times when he is a clear negative on that side on the puck.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: digdug on May 19, 2017, 02:49:16 PM
Pronman released his final 2017 draft rankings: http://www.espn.com/nhl/insider/story/_/id/19416323/nhl-top-100-draft-prospect-rankings

He has future Leaf Erik Branstrom ranked 11th, the 2nd highest ranking for a defenceman:

Wow  - opinions must be widespread on Mr. Brannstrom
this site has him going at #29 to Ottawa

http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 23, 2017, 03:01:17 PM
Jeff Marek's final 2017 draft rankings: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jeff-mareks-top-100-prospects-2017-nhl-draft/

Future Leaf All-Star Erik Brannstrom is ranked 14th on his list.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: louisstamos on May 23, 2017, 03:20:58 PM
Conor Timmins is the guy I'm more and more intrigued by the more I read about him.  He's ranked all over the place, from #19 (McKeen) to #45 (Marek).  I'm not sure he'll still be there by the time our 2nd pick rolls around, but if we can acquire a late 1st/early 2nd - he's the guy I take.

http://editorinleaf.com/2017/03/04/toronto-maple-leafs-conor-timmins/
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: bustaheims on May 23, 2017, 03:59:03 PM
Brannstrom (or, by some miracle, Liljagren) would obviously be my top choice, but I'd be pretty happy with Juuso Valimaki. Or, to a lesser extent, Hague.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 23, 2017, 04:04:27 PM
Barring a heavy fall by one of the projected first rounders, I'm looking for us to pick up Artyom Minulin in the second round.

Underrated, two-way playmaking RHD that's not small and not afraid to show it. Could really elevate his game with more work on his skating and his shot.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 23, 2017, 05:02:15 PM

Looking at options for the 2nd round pick in the kind of interesting department: Eemeli Rasanen is big(6'7 200lbs), a right handed shot and doesn't appear to just be a lump(39 points).
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Frank E on May 23, 2017, 06:28:01 PM
Anybody got a list of interesting overagers?

Right?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: louisstamos on May 23, 2017, 06:30:32 PM
Anybody got a list of interesting overagers?

Right?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/M7t5GIszd4Nc4/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 24, 2017, 03:32:36 PM
MLHS did a very thorough report on a prospect I have minimal interest in drafting in the first round, but super excited to draft in the second (which I doubt would happen for us).

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/05/24/nicolas-hague-2017-nhl-draft-profile/

Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 26, 2017, 01:22:35 AM

So things are mostly settled now. The Leafs have picks #17, 59, 110, 123(or 124), 141, 172 and 203.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 26, 2017, 10:03:16 AM

So things are mostly settled now. The Leafs have picks #17, 59, 110, 123(or 124), 141, 172 and 203.

Leafs had 7 of the first 101 picks in last years draft. 6 of the first 95 picks in the 2015 draft. Just 2 in this one (as things stand now).

Obviously we couldn't stockpile picks like that forever. Better hope some of those picks from those 2 years hit though.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 26, 2017, 10:13:43 AM
Leafs had 7 of the first 101 picks in last years draft. 6 of the first 95 picks in the 2015 draft. Just 2 in this one (as things stand now).

Obviously we couldn't stockpile picks like that forever. Better hope some of those picks from those 2 years hit though.

Yeah, I mean, obviously the sacrificed 3rds are what they are and I don't regret the Boyle trade really(I've said my piece on the Andersen deal) but after at one point thinking of this draft as the one where they're loaded up on 2nd round picks to only having the one is a little disappointing. Especially because those are picks that are valuable assets in moving up if, say, one of the defensemen in the draft is one the team likes more than the others.

I suppose they could use next years picks for that but I guess that's the price you pay for the legitimately enjoyable run they went on.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 29, 2017, 09:15:29 AM
The Athletic looks at a few potential draft candidates at 17: https://theathletic.com/61259/2017/05/29/seven-great-candidates-for-the-maple-leafs-first-round-pick-at-the-2017-nhl-draft/

The 7 candidates they write-up are:

(Future Leafs great) D Erik Brannstrom, D Callan Foote, D Nicolas Hague, F Nick Suzuki, F Kailer Yamamoto, F Jason Robertson, D Juuso Valimaki

I know everyone here is focusing on the defenceman, and for good reason I think, but if either of Suzuki or Yamamoto are available they could also both be terrific picks. Both are high-end scorers being held back in the draft rankings strictly because of their size it seems.

This draft class obviously doesn't have a McDavid/Eichel/Matthews type player at the top, but the 1st round seems to be pretty deep after that. We should be able to pick-up a very good prospect.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 29, 2017, 09:34:13 AM
Here's an old video of Kailer Yamamoto I found back in January. I had hoped he might be one of our 2nd round picks back when we had two, but we've since sold the higher option and Yamamoto has played himself into 1st round projections (http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=247915).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwj4kpGb_GA[/youtube]

However, smaller players can drop an entire round every year, so there might still be a good shot at him (e.g. Vitaly Abramov)

Also, his brother's name is Keanu.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 29, 2017, 11:28:53 AM
I know everyone here is focusing on the defenceman, and for good reason I think, but if either of Suzuki or Yamamoto are available they could also both be terrific picks. Both are high-end scorers being held back in the draft rankings strictly because of their size it seems.

I think that's a really fair point to make. Obviously the backend needs the most help but the sort of accelerated success they experienced last year has kind of forced them into a situation where they can't really address that problem via the draft. Even an accelerated development schedule for one of these guys, where they're making big contributions by 20 or 21, seems like too long to wait. It's probably going to have to be trades and free agency and if drafting a highly skilled forward frees up the possibility of trading guys like Brown or Kapanen in their hunt for defence it's something you at least have to think about. 
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 29, 2017, 11:38:55 AM
I know everyone here is focusing on the defenceman, and for good reason I think, but if either of Suzuki or Yamamoto are available they could also both be terrific picks. Both are high-end scorers being held back in the draft rankings strictly because of their size it seems.

I think that's a really fair point to make. Obviously the backend needs the most help but the sort of accelerated success they experienced last year has kind of forced them into a situation where they can't really address that problem via the draft. Even an accelerated development schedule for one of these guys, where they're making big contributions by 20 or 21, seems like too long to wait. It's probably going to have to be trades and free agency and if drafting a highly skilled forward frees up the possibility of trading guys like Brown or Kapanen in their hunt for defence it's something you at least have to think about.

It's the direction I thought they would go for goaltending back in 2015, and I think there is an opportunity with the Expansion Draft to swing for something like that.

I'd still like to see the defense pipeline shored up with players that aren't of the Desrocher/Mattinen/Middleton mold.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 29, 2017, 11:45:45 AM
It's the direction I thought they would go for goaltending back in 2015, and I think there is an opportunity with the Expansion Draft to swing for something like that.

I'd still like to see the defense pipeline shored up with players that aren't of the Desrocher/Mattinen/Middleton mold.

(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/samuel-girard-poses-for-a-portrait-after-being-selected-47th-overall-picture-id583774168?s=594x594)

"Hello? Is it me you're looking for? I can see it in your eyes. I can see it in your smile."
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on May 29, 2017, 12:16:42 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of
(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/rasmus-dahlin-of-team-sweden-skates-during-the-2017-iihf-world-junior-picture-id637274080?s=612x612)
but I don't think we'll get a shot at him.
Title: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on May 29, 2017, 06:33:13 PM
I wonder if they get aggressive and push for one of the Swedish dmen, I'd love to hear Thommie Bergman's thoughts on them.

Is he banging the drum as hard as he did for Nylander?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 02, 2017, 12:19:46 PM
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/06/01/nation-network-2017-prospect-profiles-39-conor-timmins/

One of those players I earmarked last year as a potential in our 1st round slot was Conor Timmins, who was drafted to the Soo Greyhounds by Kyle Dubas.

If he falls to the second round and all the way down to our slot, it'd be a sweet steal to pick him up there. He's all about hockey sense, drives possession, scores readily at even and PP strength (heh), and is an RHD. The knock against him is that he's on the older side of this draft class (eh, so was Matthews, last year), and he's really only had one good year shown in junior.

He doesn't quite have the wheels or handles like some of the other names we're more familiar with, but I kind of like banking on players who make it on skill and smarts, rather than relying on their physical advantages (size, speed) that will wane towards the nadirs of their careers.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 02, 2017, 01:42:43 PM
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/06/01/nation-network-2017-prospect-profiles-39-conor-timmins/

One of those players I earmarked last year as a potential in our 1st round slot was Conor Timmins, who was drafted to the Soo Greyhounds by Kyle Dubas.

Watch Colorado pick him at 32.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on June 02, 2017, 01:48:22 PM
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/06/01/nation-network-2017-prospect-profiles-39-conor-timmins/

One of those players I earmarked last year as a potential in our 1st round slot was Conor Timmins, who was drafted to the Soo Greyhounds by Kyle Dubas.

Watch Colorado pick him at 32.

With Joe Sackic walking past the Leafs table, giving Dubas a wink and finger gun that screams "Thanks buddy".
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: AvroArrow on June 02, 2017, 01:50:27 PM
I'm thinking we should pick Brannstrom - sounds pretty Karlsson-esque.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 02, 2017, 02:01:01 PM
With Joe Sackic walking past the Leafs table, giving Dubas a wink and finger gun that screams "Thanks buddy".

Speaking of which:
www.twitter.com/ShooterMcGavin_/status/869219653155008512
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 02, 2017, 02:02:49 PM
Because this will probably never happen, let's say Liljegren drops a Chychrun and he and Brannstrom are both available at 17...

Which adventure do you choose?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 02, 2017, 02:48:00 PM
Because this will probably never happen, let's say Liljegren drops a Chychrun and he and Brannstrom are both available at 17...

Which adventure do you choose?

I'm pretty sure I'm that captain of the Brannstrom Fan Club but I'd still go with Liljegren. He probably has the higher ceiling, but at the same time has the lower floor. But considering our needs and where our team is at I'd be shooting for the stars still.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: AvroArrow on June 02, 2017, 05:33:14 PM
Because this will probably never happen, let's say Liljegren drops a Chychrun and he and Brannstrom are both available at 17...

Which adventure do you choose?

Can I has both?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Frank E on June 04, 2017, 03:28:00 PM
Yamamoto weighing in at 147lbs.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 05, 2017, 09:05:47 AM
Yamamoto weighing in at 147lbs.

5'7.5" too. That's certainly pretty small. I'm not sure I remember another notable prospect that small before. Even Marner was 5'11", 160lbs at the combine. On the other hand, he performed great on a number of the tests though. Still, it wouldn't be the most surprising thing in the world to see him fall out of the 1st round.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 05, 2017, 11:57:58 AM
Anyone else feel a bit overweight?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on June 05, 2017, 12:00:05 PM
Anyone else feel a bit overweight?

I think I ate 147lbs at breakfast.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Highlander on June 07, 2017, 08:19:43 AM
Never eat anything larger than your head
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 07, 2017, 04:28:53 PM
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/06/07/nation-network-prospect-profile-23-erik-brannstrom/

Awww yeah. If we skip on him, it had better be for Liljegren +. He's not falling to us in Rd. 2 with Nashville there.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 07, 2017, 11:39:10 PM
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/06/07/nation-network-prospect-profile-23-erik-brannstrom/

Awww yeah. If we skip on him, it had better be for Liljegren +. He's not falling to us in Rd. 2 with Nashville there.

Carlton is flogging him like there's no tomorrow yet Button has him 45th.  Who's got more credibility: Carlton, a respected and mostly sober longtime poster, or Button, a dazzling TV pundit?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 08, 2017, 08:55:26 AM
Carlton is flogging him like there's no tomorrow yet Button has him 45th.  Who's got more credibility: Carlton, a respected and mostly sober longtime poster, or Button, a dazzling TV pundit?

Button had him 45th in his March rankings. His final rankings though, which came out just yesterday, saw him jump all the way up to 19th. Why the meteoric rise all of a sudden? Well, a certain "respected and mostly sober longtime poster" DID discover him between those two rankings.

Also kind of funny: Brannstrom wasn't even in Button's top-105 rankings at all in January, or in his top-75 rankings in November. While at the same time Marek's rankings over at Sportsnet had him as a 1st round pick every month since their first rankings in October. I don't think it's completely outrageous to suggest Button simply just didn't know who Brannstrom was.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 08, 2017, 09:17:51 AM
Brannstrom was on my radar back in December as I was trawling through Eliteprospects, but he was more a secondary option as I was scoping mainly for the rarer RHDs that would be middle 1st or 2nds.

Production of his level (not just points, but shot generation) is crazy good, especially when you take into account that he plays with a size disadvantage 100% of the time, and he's on the backend.

I think he got a bit more attention with Liljegren succumbing to a crippling bout of mono. Seems like every year there is a mono-dropper in the first round.

https://theleafsnation.com/2017/06/07/using-adjusted-ppg-to-evaluate-the-2017-nhl-draft-class/

Check dis:
(https://theleafsnation.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2017/06/image9.jpg)

This is a new league adjustment model (similar to NHLe) that accounts for age as well. Points aren't the end-all-and-be-all but you don't get points at these rates unless you're doing something right.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Zee on June 08, 2017, 12:54:42 PM
Mono-dropper. 

Mono mono, get the mono mono, get the mono mono...
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on June 09, 2017, 12:59:19 PM
Carlton is flogging him like there's no tomorrow yet Button has him 45th.  Who's got more credibility: Carlton, a respected and mostly sober longtime poster, or Button, a dazzling TV pundit?

Button had him 45th in his March rankings. His final rankings though, which came out just yesterday, saw him jump all the way up to 19th. Why the meteoric rise all of a sudden? Well, a certain "respected and mostly sober longtime poster" DID discover him between those two rankings.

Also kind of funny: Brannstrom wasn't even in Button's top-105 rankings at all in January, or in his top-75 rankings in November. While at the same time Marek's rankings over at Sportsnet had him as a 1st round pick every month since their first rankings in October. I don't think it's completely outrageous to suggest Button simply just didn't know who Brannstrom was.

There are several people on here who are more qualified to be dazzling TV pundits than the existing dazzling TV pundits.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: L K on June 09, 2017, 04:32:07 PM
Carlton is flogging him like there's no tomorrow yet Button has him 45th.  Who's got more credibility: Carlton, a respected and mostly sober longtime poster, or Button, a dazzling TV pundit?

Button had him 45th in his March rankings. His final rankings though, which came out just yesterday, saw him jump all the way up to 19th. Why the meteoric rise all of a sudden? Well, a certain "respected and mostly sober longtime poster" DID discover him between those two rankings.

Also kind of funny: Brannstrom wasn't even in Button's top-105 rankings at all in January, or in his top-75 rankings in November. While at the same time Marek's rankings over at Sportsnet had him as a 1st round pick every month since their first rankings in October. I don't think it's completely outrageous to suggest Button simply just didn't know who Brannstrom was.

There are several people on here who are more qualified to be dazzling TV pundits than the existing dazzling TV pundits.

Meteoric rise in mock drafts after the vast majority of on-ice performance is done is a pretty solid example of bad analysis. 
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Nik the Trik on June 09, 2017, 04:51:33 PM
There are several people on here who are more qualified to be dazzling TV pundits than the existing dazzling TV pundits.

Problem is the networks tend to be looking for people who don't say "who the hell cares" when asked about where Kris Russell signs.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: L K on June 09, 2017, 06:15:36 PM
There are several people on here who are more qualified to be dazzling TV pundits than the existing dazzling TV pundits.

Problem is the networks tend to be looking for people who don't say "who the hell cares" when asked about where Kris Russell signs.

Yeah but that will be balanced out by the ratings draw of your segment "Nikpicking the facts"
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 12, 2017, 12:50:18 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-might-waive-no-move-clause-ahead-expansion-draft/

Friedman kicks off this week's 30 Thoughts with a story about Thommie Bergman, and it is draft themed overall.

Thommie's son Lucas followed his father's footsteps and currently scouts for the Predators. He was instrumental in their drafting of Arvidsson, Ekholm, and Hornqvist.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Highlander on June 14, 2017, 08:38:36 PM
So who wants to make a prediction on our draft picks? Just get in Marks head and shoot away!
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Rebel_1812 on June 14, 2017, 10:06:41 PM
Thoughts on Nicolas Hague?  He seems to have offense, defense, size and a physical demeanor. 
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Nicolas-Hague
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: Highlander on June 15, 2017, 08:14:36 AM
The Leafs have plenty of forwards in the mix, seems Hague has the size and the tools to be a good one and may be available for us.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 15, 2017, 08:40:34 AM
Thoughts on Nicolas Hague?  He seems to have offense, defense, size and a physical demeanor. 
http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Nicolas-Hague

This is a weird complaint about him, but the fact that he for some reason isn't basically a lock for a top-5 pick scares me about him. Like you said, he's basically the complete package. Like, this is Pronman's write up for him:

Quote
There's a lot to like about Hague's toolkit. He's very tall, skates well, can move the puck and uses his big frame to his advantage. Digging into the details of those attributes, his skill level isn't incredibly high, but he's more than competent on the power play in terms of his playmaking, and he has a decent shot too. Hague was a shot-generating machine this season, in part due to how well he creates space with his speed, which is great for such a large player. His shot in itself is a great weapon, and he can generate goals and second chances. He's a rock defensively, arguably as good if not better than his offensive game. Hague closes his gaps well, wins battles and is often creating turnovers to get his team back up the ice quickly.

I know all scouting reports are usually written pretty optimistically, but that sure does SOUND like everything you want from a top pairing defenceman. Size. Speed. Big shot. Generates shots. Rock defensively. That sounds like somebody you would see ranked top-10, especially with his size advantage. But Pronman has him ranked 35th! Most rankings have him in the 20s somewhere. I just don't really get what's holding him back in the rankings so much from what the services have all written about him. It's weird.

I mean Logan Stanley went 18th last year and Hague had 2.5x more points than he did in their respective draft years and Stanley seemed to have a lot more red flags.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: bustaheims on June 15, 2017, 08:48:13 AM
I know all scouting reports are usually written pretty optimistically, but that sure does SOUND like everything you want from a top pairing defenceman. Size. Speed. Big shot. Generates shots. Rock defensively. That sounds like somebody you would see ranked top-10, especially with his size advantage. But Pronman has him ranked 35th! Most rankings have him in the 20s somewhere. I just don't really get what's holding him back in the rankings so much from what the services have all written about him. It's weird.

I mean Logan Stanley went 18th last year and Hague had 2.5x more points than he did in their respective draft years and Stanley seems to have a lot more red flags.

There's one phrase in that write-up that sticks out to me - his skill level isn't incredibly high. He clearly has very good physical tools and "hockey IQ," but it doesn't seem like he's the type of guy who can drive the play from the backend or QB the top powerplay unit. It's like he does every well, but nothing that will translate to being exceptional at the NHL level - which would make him a solid 2nd pairing guy, but also explain why he isn't a top 5-10 pick.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 15, 2017, 08:55:50 AM
There's one phrase in that write-up that sticks out to me - his skill level isn't incredibly high. He clearly has very good physical tools and "hockey IQ," but it doesn't seem like he's the type of guy who can drive the play from the backend or QB the top powerplay unit. It's like he does every well, but nothing that will translate to being exceptional at the NHL level - which would make him a solid 2nd pairing guy, but also explain why he isn't a top 5-10 pick.

That part stuck out to me as well.
This article posed the same question that Carlton did and tracked down some mid-term scouting reports and you can see the progress of expectations unrealized.

http://www.allaboutthejersey.com/2017/5/8/15570306/massive-defenseman-nicolas-hague-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-profile-mississagua

His transition game appears to be quite weak (part of that hockey-IQ thing). He can do well with time and space (PP) but under pressure, he's going to get a bit of tunnel vision and rely on his size more than his smarts. But once he's in the offensive zone, he's solid. Sounds like Polak with a bit more finesse in shot selection. His defensive game sounds great though (gap control, pivots, skating).
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 15, 2017, 09:14:20 AM
There's one phrase in that write-up that sticks out to me - his skill level isn't incredibly high. He clearly has very good physical tools and "hockey IQ," but it doesn't seem like he's the type of guy who can drive the play from the backend or QB the top powerplay unit. It's like he does every well, but nothing that will translate to being exceptional at the NHL level - which would make him a solid 2nd pairing guy, but also explain why he isn't a top 5-10 pick.

Sure, but again that sounds like something that would hold a 6'1" defenceman with his skills back, not a 6'6" guy. Most guys Hague's size can get his kind of rankings without even coming close to his skating and shot talents.

Anyway, I think that this also shows just how deep this years 1st round is despite not having a big name at the top like McDavid or Matthews. I think in a lot of the past drafts he'd be a lock for a top-15 selection.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 15, 2017, 09:18:25 AM
The three names that get bandied about in our area of the first round are Hague, Foote, and Brannstrom.

They're all good in their own right: Hague's strengths and issues are noted above. Foote has pedigree and is big, dependable, capable, and unremarkable (like the Nolan Patrick of the blueline?). Brannstrom is way more exciting to me for the dynamism, skills, IQ, and speed. Unless Liljegren or Makar or Heiskanen drop significantly, I can't see Tampa Bay passing up on Brannstrom.

One or two of Lias Andersson, Kailer Yamamoto, Elias Petersson, Martin Necas is also likely drop to be around our spot just by virtue of being European or small, but highly skilled/speedy/smart. Juuso Valimaki would also be a fun pick (defensively responsible, but can really hold the puck).
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 18, 2017, 11:46:14 PM
www.twitter.com/nnstats/status/876623172023537665

If I had Twitter, I'd retweet this.
Who do you think will pull off the biggest oopsie: Sweeney or Benning?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: louisstamos on June 19, 2017, 12:13:44 PM
Bobby Mac just released his final list.  Look who he has ranked at #16.

http://www.tsn.ca/hischier-rides-meteoric-rise-to-top-of-tsn-draft-ranking-1.783025

If by some miracle, Liljegren is available when the Leafs pick at #17, I think you absolutely take him.  Otherwise, I would be okay with trading down and trying to grab Brannstrom/Timmins/Hague/Foote.  Las Vegas should have a surplus of 1st round picks - hopefully they'd be willing to spend a few to move up!
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 19, 2017, 12:43:31 PM
Bobby Mac just released his final list.  Look who he has ranked at #16.

http://www.tsn.ca/hischier-rides-meteoric-rise-to-top-of-tsn-draft-ranking-1.783025

If by some miracle, Liljegren is available when the Leafs pick at #17, I think you absolutely take him.  Otherwise, I would be okay with trading down and trying to grab Brannstrom/Timmins/Hague/Foote.  Las Vegas should have a surplus of 1st round picks - hopefully they'd be willing to spend a few to move up!

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Trade up for Liljegren or down if he's gone to get an extra 2nd rounder. I obviously like Brannstrom but it's starting to seem like his size will drop him into the 20s somewhere. And even if he's gone there should still be some interesting prospects there.

I think Carolina at 12 would make for a good trading partner if we go that route.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 19, 2017, 01:22:41 PM
Bobby Mac just released his final list.  Look who he has ranked at #16.

http://www.tsn.ca/hischier-rides-meteoric-rise-to-top-of-tsn-draft-ranking-1.783025

If by some miracle, Liljegren is available when the Leafs pick at #17, I think you absolutely take him.  Otherwise, I would be okay with trading down and trying to grab Brannstrom/Timmins/Hague/Foote.  Las Vegas should have a surplus of 1st round picks - hopefully they'd be willing to spend a few to move up!

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Trade up for Liljegren or down if he's gone to get an extra 2nd rounder. I obviously like Brannstrom but it's starting to seem like his size will drop him into the 20s somewhere. And even if he's gone there should still be some interesting prospects there.

I think Carolina at 12 would make for a good trading partner if we go that route.

Between Tampa and Nashville, neither Liljegren or Brannstrom will fall out of the 1st round. I would not be opposed to moving a forward contract to slide up the draft if the timing is right. I wonder if Cale Makar might drop as well, as he is pretty much the same build as Brannstrom, but without the European bias. Three "Erik Karlsson comparables" to work with.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 19, 2017, 01:26:31 PM
Between Tampa and Nashville, neither Liljegren or Brannstrom will fall out of the 1st round. I would not be opposed to moving a forward contract to slide up the draft if the timing is right. I wonder if Cale Makar might drop as well, as he is pretty much the same build as Brannstrom, but without the European bias. Three "Erik Karlsson comparables" to work with.

Cale Makar's draft stock seems to just be rising and rising if anything. I doubt he drops out of the top-10 even. He's also not really that small. Almost 6'0", 190 lbs.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 19, 2017, 01:37:20 PM
Between Tampa and Nashville, neither Liljegren or Brannstrom will fall out of the 1st round. I would not be opposed to moving a forward contract to slide up the draft if the timing is right. I wonder if Cale Makar might drop as well, as he is pretty much the same build as Brannstrom, but without the European bias. Three "Erik Karlsson comparables" to work with.

Cale Makar's draft stock seems to just be rising and rising if anything. I doubt he drops out of the top-10 even. He's also not really that small. Almost 6'0", 190 lbs.

Scouting outfits (and I) like him and his profile a lot. His size is listed a little bit all over the place. I think NHL scouts and GMs might still balk at him in the top 5 or even top 10.

Who was the last sub-6' defenseman taken in the top 10?
I've been sifting manually through the last handful of drafts, but I don't think hockeydb kept the at-draft size/weights. I found Matt Dumba at 6' 2012 #7 overall, and Ryan Ellis 5'10" in 2009 at #11 overall.

I know 5'11" is basically 6', but I'm not sure NHL front offices are, if history is an accurate measure. Coupled with playing in a baby league, I can see some teams being skeptical.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 19, 2017, 01:45:22 PM
Scouting outfits (and I) like him and his profile a lot. His size is listed a little bit all over the place. I think NHL scouts and GMs might still balk at him in the top 5 or even top 10.

Who was the last sub-6' defenseman taken in the top 10?
I've been sifting manually through the last handful of drafts, but I don't think hockeydb kept the at-draft size/weights.

His official combine measurement was 5-foot-11.25, 187.44 pounds. And that fact that it's been a little all over the place probably indicates that he's been growing a fair bit in the past year and there's still some room to go there. Guys like Juolevi and Provorov were a little bigger at the draft but not really by that much.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 19, 2017, 02:22:50 PM
Scouting outfits (and I) like him and his profile a lot. His size is listed a little bit all over the place. I think NHL scouts and GMs might still balk at him in the top 5 or even top 10.

Who was the last sub-6' defenseman taken in the top 10?
I've been sifting manually through the last handful of drafts, but I don't think hockeydb kept the at-draft size/weights.

His official combine measurement was 5-foot-11.25, 187.44 pounds. And that fact that it's been a little all over the place probably indicates that he's been growing a fair bit in the past year and there's still some room to go there. Guys like Juolevi and Provorov were a little bigger at the draft but not really by that much.

That growth curve does indeed look ramped up. Where can I find the combine measurements? My usual amount of lazy googling is proving insufficient.

Edit: Found it! http://thehockeywriters.com/2017-nhl-combine-heights-weights/

(I still think some GMs sort their spreadsheets to look for that 6; I really don't mind if other GMs are dumb like this.)
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 19, 2017, 05:18:49 PM
I think NHL scouts and GMs might still balk at him in the top 5 or even top 10.

Also, from McKenzie's article:

Quote
Seven of the 10 scouts surveyed had Makar as a top 5 pick, including the one who had him first overall. Makar was no lower than No. 7 on any scout’s list.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 19, 2017, 06:01:39 PM
I think NHL scouts and GMs might still balk at him in the top 5 or even top 10.

Also, from McKenzie's article:

Quote
Seven of the 10 scouts surveyed had Makar as a top 5 pick, including the one who had him first overall. Makar was no lower than No. 7 on any scout’s list.

I did see that. I remain skeptical of the way most teams work the draft and scout. That Makar is even in these conversations is a testament to his ability.

Is his playing in a league he is clearly too good for a factor in that assessment?
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 20, 2017, 08:56:23 AM
I did see that. I remain skeptical of the way most teams work the draft and scout. That Makar is even in these conversations is a testament to his ability.

Is his playing in a league he is clearly too good for a factor in that assessment?

Admittedly I too am surprised that he's ranked that high by those scouts, but here we are. Playing in the AJHL really makes him one of the toughest prospects to scout I'm sure. He actually probably makes for the best test to judge a scout's pure talents on. If I was a GM I'd make sure all my guys made a full report on him and I'd check back in on that in 3 years to see how they did.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 20, 2017, 09:20:57 AM
Admittedly I too am surprised that he's ranked that high by those scouts, but here we are. Playing in the AJHL really makes him one of the toughest prospects to scout I'm sure. He actually probably makes for the best test to judge a scout's pure talents on. If I was a GM I'd make sure all my guys made a full report on him and I'd check back in on that in 3 years to see how they did.

Agreed. I'm very curious to see where he ends up and how he does in higher tiers.

Erik Brannstrom and Kailer Yamamoto are other guys I think who'll get the size bias treatment even though they have the production of a top 5 pick.
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 20, 2017, 10:56:24 AM
Mock Drafts!
Marek's: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/jeff-mareks-2017-nhl-mock-draft/
#17: Lias Andersson
Quote
The Leafs want guys who play a smart, puck possession game. This intelligent and talented centre fits that bill.

Draft Site's: https://www.draftsite.com/nhl/mock-draft/2017/
#17: Eeli Tolvanen (https://www.draftsite.com/nhl/player/eeli-tolvanen/25848/)

My NHL Draft: http://www.mynhldraft.com/NHL-Mock-Draft/
#17: Timothy Liljegren (http://www.mynhldraft.com/2017/NHL-Draft-Profiles/Timothy-Liljegren)

SB Nation: https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/nhl-draft/2017/6/17/15811742/eeli-tolvanen-toronto-maple-leafs-nhl-mock-draft-2017
#17: Eeli Tolvanen (https://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2017/5/25/15661142/toronto-maple-leafs-nhl-draft-2017-eeli-tolvanen-potential-steal-finnish-forward-best-shot)
Title: Re: 2017 Draft Watch
Post by: herman on June 20, 2017, 10:57:28 AM
No one's mock drafts have 6 Vegas picks, so these don't seem realistic.