| 2016 Eligible: | 2016's list | 2015's list | ||
| Adam Brooks Andreas Johnson Andrew Nielsen Antoine Bibeau Auston Matthews Brendan Leipsic Carl Grundstrom Connor Brown Connor Carrick Dakota Joshua Dmytro Timashov Dominic Toninato Frank Corrado Frederik Gauthier Garret Sparks Jack Walker JD Greenway Jeremy Bracco Jesper Lindgren JJ Piccinich Joseph Woll Josh Leivo Justin Holl Kasmir Kaskisuo Kasperi Kapanen Keaton Middleton Kerby Rychel Martin Marincin Martins Dzierkals Mitch Marner Morgan Rielly Nicolas Mattinen Nikita Korostelev Nikita Soshnikov Nikita Zaitsev Nikolai Chebykin Nolan Vesey Pierre Engvall Rinat Valiev Stephen Desrocher Tobias Lindberg Travis Dermott Viktor Loov Vladimir Boblyev William Nylander Yegor Korshkov Zach Hyman | 25. Yegor Korshkov (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/8/12358958/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-yegor-korshkov-starts-things-off-at-no-25) 24. Martins Dzierkals (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/9/12351400/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-martins-dzierkals-wins-his-way-to-no-24) 23. Carl Grundstrom (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/10/12392012/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-carl-grundstrom-debuts-at-23) 22. Andrew Neilsen (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/11/12383156/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-andrew-nielsen-works-his-way-to-no-22) 21. Rinat Valiev (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/8/12/12418908/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-welcome-to-21st-rinat-valiev) 20. Tobias Lindberg (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/15/12405604/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-tobias-lindberg-comes-in-at-no-20) 19. Travis Dermott (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/16/12385964/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-travis-dermott-rises-to-no-19) 18. Josh Leivo (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/17/12390854/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-josh-leivo-falls-back-to-18) 17. Brendan Leipsic (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/18/12441244/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-brendan-leipsic-is-number-17-now-let-spike-go-scott) 16. Jeremy Bracco (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/8/19/12519020/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-jeremy-bracco-is-16th) 15. Zach Hyman (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/22/12392756/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-zach-hyman-breaks-through-at-no-15) 14. Frank Corrado (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/8/23/12585764/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-frank-corrado-is-14th) 13. Dmytro Timashov (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/8/24/12583406/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-dmytro-timashov-is-lucky-13) 12. Andreas Johnson (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/25/12516186/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-andreas-johnson-lands-in-north-america-at-no-12) 11. Kerby Rychel (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/26/12572480/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-kerby-rychel-is-no-11) 10. Nikita Soshnikov (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/8/29/12650444/maple-leafs-top-25-nikita-soshnikov-marlies) 9. Kasperi Kapanen (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/8/30/12696692/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-kasperi-kapanen-is-10th) 8. Martin Marincin (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/31/12492456/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-martin-marincin-is-no-8) 7. Connor Carrick (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/9/1/12709786/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-7-connor-carrick) 6. Nikita Zaitsev (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/9/2/12720998/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-nikita-zaitsev-debuts-at-number-6) 5. Connor Brown (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/9/5/12750456/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-top-5-kicks-off-with-connor-brown) 4. Morgan Rielly (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/9/6/12467708/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-morgan-rielly-stars-at-no-4) 3. Mitch Marner (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/9/7/12573936/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-mitch-marner-moves-up-to-no-3) 2. William Nylander (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/9/8/12659008/top-25-under-25-william-nylander-is-no-2) 1. Auston Matthews (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/9/9/12782046/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-auston-matthews-unanimously-named-no-1) (duh) | 25. Christopher Gibson (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/10/9116757/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-25-christopher-gibson) - traded 24. Matt Finn (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/11/9099921/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-24-matt-finn) - traded 23. Scott Harrington (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/12/9128981/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-23-scott-harrington) - traded 22. Travis Dermott (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/13/9146043/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-22-travis-dermott) 21. Dmytro Timashov (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/14/9149619/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-21-dmytro-timashov) 20. Carter Verhaeghe (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/17/9124151/ppps-top-25-under-25-20-carter-verhaeghe) - traded 19. Frederik Gauthier (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/18/9168311/ppps-top-25-under-25-frederik-gauthier) 18. Nikita Soshnikov (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/19/9171705/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-18-evgeny-soshnikov) 17. Taylor Beck (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/20/9176481/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-17-taylor-beck) - traded 16. Viktor Lööv (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/21/9166419/ppps-top-25-under-25-16-viktor-loov) 15. Josh Leivo (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/24/9195169/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-15-josh-leivo) 14. Jeremy Bracco (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/25/9202215/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-14-jeremy-bracco) 13. Stuart Percy (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/26/9198283/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-13-stuart-percy) - UFA'd 12. Brendan Leipsic (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/27/9199427/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-12-brendan-leipsic) 11. Andreas Johnson (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/28/9214991/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-11-andreas-johnson) 10. Martin Marincin (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/31/9223503/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-10-martin-marincin) 9. Richard Panik (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/9/1/9222159/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-9-richard-panik) - traded 8. Connor Brown (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/2/9239037/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-8-connor-brown-minus-72) 7. Peter Holland (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/3/9248185/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-7-peter-holland) - graduated 6. Kasperi Kapanen (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/4/9247177/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-6-kasperi-kapanen) 5. Mitch Marner (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/7/9248995/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-5-mitch-marner-London-Knights) 4. Nazem Kadri (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/8/9270501/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-4-nazem-kadri) - graduated 3. Jake Gardiner (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/9/9286333/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-3-jake-gardiner) - graduated 2. William Nylander (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/10/9299551/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-2-william-nylander) 1. Morgan Rielly (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/11/9302277/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-1-morgan-rielly) |
| 20. Garret Sparks (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/8/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-20-garret-sparks) 19. Kasmir Kaskisuo (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/9/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-19-kasimir-kaskisuo) 18. Adam Brooks (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/10/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-18-adam-brooks) 17. Yegor Korshkov (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/11/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-17-yegor-korshkov) 16. Tobias Lindberg (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/12/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-16-tobias-lindberg) 15. Andrew Neilsen (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/15/tln-top-prospects-2016-15-andrew-nielsen) 14. Carl Grundstrom (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/16/tln-top-prospects-2016-14-carl-grundstrom) 13. Zach Hyman (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/17/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-13-zach-hyman) 12. Brendan Leipsic (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/18/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-12-brendan-leipsic) 11. Jeremy Bracco (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/19/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-11-jeremy-bracco) 10. Nikita Soshnikov (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/22/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-10-nikita-soshnikov) 9. Travis Dermott (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/23/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-9-travis-dermott) 8. Dmytro Timashov (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/24/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-8-dmytro-timashov) 7. Andreas Johnson (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/25/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-7-andreas-johnson) 6. Connor Brown (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/26/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-6-connor-brown) 5. Kasperi Kapanen (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/29/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-5-kasperi-kapanen) 4. Nikita Zaitsev (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/30/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-4-nikita-zaitsev) 3. William Nylander (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/31/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-3-william-nylander) 2. Mitch Marner (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/9/1/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-2-mitch-marner) 1. Auston Matthews (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/9/2/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-1-auston-matthews) |
My list is a little different. I have a slightly different definition of what qualifies as a prospect. To me a prospect is one that has yet to crack an NHL roster.
A U 25 roster player is a U 25 roster player, not a prospect, so in my prospect pool, Morgan Rielly for instance, doesn't qualify. He's a core player, signed long term. That being said, here are my top 20 prospects:
Ranked on both NHL readiness and long term success.
1. Auston Matthews
2. Mitch Marner
3. William Nylander
4. Nikita Zaitsev
5. Connor Carrick
6. Connor Brown
7. Zach Hyman
8. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Kerby Rychel
10. Kasperi Kapanen
11. Travis Dermott
12. Jeremy Bracco
13. Viktor Loov
14. Tobias Lindberg
15. Brendan Leipsic
16. Antoine Bibeau
17. Andrew Nielsen
18. Frederik Gauthier
19. Josh Leivo
20. Garret Sparks
Not qualified in my list are the likes of Corrado, Rielly, Marincin, etc. as they have already both played their rookie season and aren't currently in the minors.
My list is a little different. I have a slightly different definition of what qualifies as a prospect. To me a prospect is one that has yet to crack an NHL roster.
A U 25 roster player is a U 25 roster player, not a prospect, so in my prospect pool, Morgan Rielly for instance, doesn't qualify. He's a core player, signed long term. That being said, here are my top 20 prospects:
Ranked on both NHL readiness and long term success.
1. Auston Matthews
2. Mitch Marner
3. William Nylander
4. Nikita Zaitsev
5. Connor Carrick
6. Connor Brown
7. Zach Hyman
8. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Kerby Rychel
10. Kasperi Kapanen
11. Travis Dermott
12. Jeremy Bracco
13. Viktor Loov
14. Tobias Lindberg
15. Brendan Leipsic
16. Antoine Bibeau
17. Andrew Nielsen
18. Frederik Gauthier
19. Josh Leivo
20. Garret Sparks
Not qualified in my list are the likes of Corrado, Rielly, Marincin, etc. as they have already both played their rookie season and aren't currently in the minors.
Yeah but the PPP article isn't about whether they've played in the NHL or not. It literally is what is says: Players U25 are eligible for the list.
You do love to be contrary ;D ;)
I'm going to be ranking them based on whose name, if they were characters in a novel you bought at the airport, would make you question the author's judgment the most:
1. Kerby Rychel
2. Auston Matthews
3. Jack Walker
4. Yegor Korshkov
5. Antoine Bibeau
6. Garret Sparks
7. Carl Grundstrom
8. Morgan Rielly
9. Viktor Loov
10. Connor Carrick
I'm going to be ranking them based on whose name, if they were characters in a novel you bought at the airport, would make you question the author's judgment the most:
1. Kerby Rychel
2. Auston Matthews
3. Jack Walker
4. Yegor Korshkov
5. Antoine Bibeau
6. Garret Sparks
7. Carl Grundstrom
8. Morgan Rielly
9. Viktor Loov
10. Connor Carrick
This list is invalid without Dakota Joshua as the #1.
My list is a little different. I have a slightly different definition of what qualifies as a prospect. To me a prospect is one that has yet to crack an NHL roster.
A U 25 roster player is a U 25 roster player, not a prospect, so in my prospect pool, Morgan Rielly for instance, doesn't qualify. He's a core player, signed long term. That being said, here are my top 20 prospects:
Ranked on both NHL readiness and long term success.
1. Mitch Marner
2. Auston Matthews
3. William Nylander
4. Nikita Zaitsev
5. Connor Carrick
6. Connor Brown
7. Zach Hyman
8. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Kerby Rychel
10. Kasperi Kapanen
11. Travis Dermott
12. Jeremy Bracco
13. Viktor Loov
14. Tobias Lindberg
15. Brendan Leipsic
16. Antoine Bibeau
17. Andrew Nielsen
18. Frederik Gauthier
19. Josh Leivo
20. Garret Sparks
Not qualified in my list are the likes of Corrado, Rielly, Marincin, etc. as they have already both played their rookie season and aren't currently in the minors.
It is a haul of picks, and it is too early to say it would have been the wrong decision, even now in hindsight.
If I'm understanding correctly, I guess I was just under the impression that Hunter was drafting Marner at that spot as a first priority and plan. If the link it to be believed, they didn't think enough of him to prefer giving up that spot and trading down. That surprised me.
Me too but, to give the organization credit, I think there's real value in exploring all of your options. That very well might have been a "they'll never give us all that, will they?" sort of offer.
If the Leafs think Columbus' rookie GM wants Hanafin, they make the offer to see if they'll bite. It was the Leafs trying to take advantage here, not so much them not liking Marner.
They seemed to like Werenski enough to keep their stash.
So, I agree.
I made ONE change to your list. I don't know if I believe it. At least not yet. I just don't think we should all assume we have the number one and two in the correct order. I'd like to at least see them both play in an exhibition game first before I'm completely comfortable putting them in order. Anyone else think there's a chance?
Technically, Rychel, Leivo and Carrick aren't rookies either as none would be eligible for the Calder next year.
They've also never made an NHL roster full time, just a smattering of games here and there, bounced up and down, that's why they still qualify for me. So NHL rookies, no... prospects... yes.
They've also never made an NHL roster full time, just a smattering of games here and there, bounced up and down, that's why they still qualify for me. So NHL rookies, no... prospects... yes.
Your criteria seems designed to give a misleading impression of a team's young talent.
How so? If you are U25 and NOT a full time NHL'er, you are a prospect until such time as you become a full time NHL'er. How is that misleading?
Because of the largely meaningless distinction between prospect and player in this context. If a list like this is meant to give us a handle on where players stack against each other then why is it important to distinguish between where various players of similar ages are in their careers? Rielly is younger than Zaitsev. He's more relevant to a discussion of this nature than Zaitsev because he's more important to the team.
What a prospect is isn't a hard and fast rule, so why exclude players if you don't have to? What's gained by arbitrarily narrowing the scope of the discussion?
1. See edit.
2. Zaitsev wasn't in our system at all, prior to THIS spring, he has yet to play a full season in the NHL, thus also qualifying as a rookie as well as a prospect regardless of being older than Rielly.
1. See edit.
2. Zaitsev wasn't in our system at all, prior to THIS spring, he has yet to play a full season in the NHL, thus also qualifying as a rookie as well as a prospect regardless of being older than Rielly.
Neither of those things answers the question I asked of what the value is in narrowing the scope of the question arbitrarily. I mean, it's great that you define prospect in a certain way but I don't see how these distinctions actually matter. If the Leafs had kept Marner up last year and he'd had a not very productive rookie season, why wouldn't we still want to assess his potential vs. the other young players in the system?
Because then he gets ranked in comparison to his NHL teammates. I just don't consider a full time NHL'er, regardless of age, a prospect.
You are no longer auditioning for the show, when you are in the show.
You are no longer auditioning for the show, when you are in the show.
Because then he gets ranked in comparison to his NHL teammates. I just don't consider a full time NHL'er, regardless of age, a prospect.
You are no longer auditioning for the show, when you are in the show.
Right, you've made it abundantly clear that you think the distinction between prospect/not a prospect is a very important one. That's exactly the sort of semantic diversion that a "25 under 25" list seems specifically constructed to avoid though.
The unifying thing a 19 year old regular and a 19 year old who's been in Junior probably have is that the purpose of ranking them isn't based on the players they are right now but rather the projection of players they might be. That's true regardless of NHL experience and that's what these lists are about. It's a "who has the most potential in the system" list. Excluding players like Kadri and Gardiner is on the basis of them largely having become the players they're going to be rather than something arbitrary.
I mean, I guess I'll give asking one last try but this isn't about what you consider a prospect or whether or not you think the distinction between player/prospect is important. I'm asking us why we'd want to narrow the discussion as opposed to broaden it? What purpose does that serve as we assess young players?
You are no longer auditioning for the show, when you are in the show.
Until you're a well-established player, you're always auditioning - even when you're in the show.
Because then why limit it at 25? Why not assess our ENTIRE talent pool. That certainly broadens things.
Because then he gets ranked in comparison to his NHL teammates. I just don't consider a full time NHL'er, regardless of age, a prospect.
You are no longer auditioning for the show, when you are in the show.
Right, you've made it abundantly clear that you think the distinction between prospect/not a prospect is a very important one. That's exactly the sort of semantic diversion that a "25 under 25" list seems specifically constructed to avoid though.
The unifying thing a 19 year old regular and a 19 year old who's been in Junior probably have is that the purpose of ranking them isn't based on the players they are right now but rather the projection of players they might be. That's true regardless of NHL experience and that's what these lists are about. It's a "who has the most potential in the system" list. Excluding players like Kadri and Gardiner is on the basis of them largely having become the players they're going to be rather than something arbitrary.
I mean, I guess I'll give asking one last try but this isn't about what you consider a prospect or whether or not you think the distinction between player/prospect is important. I'm asking us why we'd want to narrow the discussion as opposed to broaden it? What purpose does that serve as we assess young players?
Because then why limit it at 25? Why not assess our ENTIRE talent pool. That certainly broadens things.
Because then why limit it at 25? Why not assess our ENTIRE talent pool. That certainly broadens things.
I answered that in the post you quote.
There is nothing wrong with my criteria because I've qualified it, before I created the list.
Because that was the scope the article went out to achieve, and it's fair in its scope - it's based on age bracket. That's it. Adding additional parameters unnecessarily distorts who our young players are and how good they are. As an example, leave Rielly off the list all you want - it's still an insane omission to make if we are judging our young, quality talent pool. I don't think anyone who's a Panthers fan would leave Ekblad off the top of their list of young players within the Panthers organization. I mean, by your definition Marner, Matthews, Nylander etc. will likely all be off this list next year, which makes our team's young players look incredibly shallow when it isn't.
My list is a little different. I have a slightly different definition of what qualifies as a prospect. To me a prospect is one that has yet to crack an NHL roster.
A U 25 roster player is a U 25 roster player, not a prospect, so in my prospect pool, Morgan Rielly for instance, doesn't qualify. He's a core player, signed long term. That being said, here are my top 20 prospects:
Ranked on both NHL readiness and long term success.
1. Mitch Marner
2. Auston Matthews
3. William Nylander
4. Nikita Zaitsev
5. Connor Carrick
6. Connor Brown
7. Zach Hyman
8. Nikita Soshnikov
9. Kerby Rychel
10. Kasperi Kapanen
11. Travis Dermott
12. Jeremy Bracco
13. Viktor Loov
14. Tobias Lindberg
15. Brendan Leipsic
16. Antoine Bibeau
17. Andrew Nielsen
18. Frederik Gauthier
19. Josh Leivo
20. Garret Sparks
Not qualified in my list are the likes of Corrado, Rielly, Marincin, etc. as they have already both played their rookie season and aren't currently in the minors.
I made ONE change to your list. I don't know if I believe it. At least not yet. I just don't think we should all assume we have the number one and two in the correct order. I'd like to at least see them both play in an exhibition game first before I'm completely comfortable putting them in order. Anyone else think there's a chance?
PPP's Top 25 under 25 (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25) is under way.
25. Christopher Gibson (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/10/9116757/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-25-christopher-gibson) - traded
24. Matt Finn (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/11/9099921/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-24-matt-finn) - traded
23. Scott Harrington (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/12/9128981/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-23-scott-harrington) - traded
22. Travis Dermott (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/13/9146043/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-22-travis-dermott)
21. Dmytro Timashov (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/14/9149619/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-21-dmytro-timashov)
20. Carter Verhaeghe (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/17/9124151/ppps-top-25-under-25-20-carter-verhaeghe) - traded
19. Frederik Gauthier (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/18/9168311/ppps-top-25-under-25-frederik-gauthier)
18. Nikita Soshnikov (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/19/9171705/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-18-evgeny-soshnikov)
17. Taylor Beck (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/20/9176481/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-17-taylor-beck) - traded
16. Viktor Lööv (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/21/9166419/ppps-top-25-under-25-16-viktor-loov)
15. Josh Leivo (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/24/9195169/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-15-josh-leivo)
14. Jeremy Bracco (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/25/9202215/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-14-jeremy-bracco)
13. Stuart Percy (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/26/9198283/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-13-stuart-percy) - UFA'd
12. Brendan Leipsic (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/27/9199427/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-12-brendan-leipsic)
11. Andreas Johnson (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/28/9214991/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-11-andreas-johnson)
10. Martin Marincin (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/8/31/9223503/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-10-martin-marincin)
9. Richard Panik (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2015/9/1/9222159/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-9-richard-panik) - traded
8. Connor Brown (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/2/9239037/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-8-connor-brown-minus-72)
7. Peter Holland (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/3/9248185/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-7-peter-holland) - graduated
6. Kasperi Kapanen (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/4/9247177/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-6-kasperi-kapanen)
5. Mitch Marner (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/7/9248995/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-5-mitch-marner-London-Knights)
4. Nazem Kadri (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/8/9270501/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-4-nazem-kadri) - graduated
3. Jake Gardiner (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/9/9286333/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-3-jake-gardiner) - graduated
2. William Nylander (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/10/9299551/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-2-william-nylander)
1. Morgan Rielly (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2015/9/11/9302277/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-1-morgan-rielly)
There is nothing wrong with my criteria because I've qualified it, before I created the list.
Like I said, because it arbitrarily narrows the scope of what's being discussed I think it creates a less extensive answer to the fundamental question which is the overall strength(and effective depth chart) of the organizational pool of young players.
There is nothing wrong with my criteria because I've qualified it, before I created the list.
Like I said, because it arbitrarily narrows the scope of what's being discussed I think it creates a less extensive answer to the fundamental question which is the overall strength(and effective depth chart) of the organizational pool of young players.
Nah, quite frankly, you're just being a dick.
When Pronman does his annual prospect rankings (who quite frankly I find more credible than anyone on PPP) does he include full time NHL'ers?
Does McDavid still show up? No. No he does not.
When Pronman does his annual prospect rankings (who quite frankly I find more credible than anyone on PPP) does he include full time NHL'ers?
Does McDavid still show up? No. No he does not.
When Pronman does his annual prospect rankings (who quite frankly I find more credible than anyone on PPP) does he include full time NHL'ers?
There is nothing wrong with my criteria because I've qualified it, before I created the list.
Like I said, because it arbitrarily narrows the scope of what's being discussed I think it creates a less extensive answer to the fundamental question which is the overall strength(and effective depth chart) of the organizational pool of young players.
Nah, quite frankly, you're just being a dick.
When Pronman does his annual prospect rankings (who quite frankly I find more credible than anyone on PPP) does he include full time NHL'ers?
Does McDavid still show up? No. No he does not.
Wow, resorting to name calling... classy. Seriously though, herman brought up the PPP T25U25 and you responded to that by changing the parameters. Kudos for sticking to your guns, but you've basically stolen the topic from talking about the T25U25 into a discussion of what YOU care about. I say we just ignore you and just move on to talking about the T25U25.
When Pronman does his annual prospect rankings (who quite frankly I find more credible than anyone on PPP) does he include full time NHL'ers?
Does McDavid still show up? No. No he does not.
PPP.
Wasn't.
Ranking.
Prospects.
You admittedly never clicked on the link. Had you done so you might have known that.
I've clicked on those PPP lists in previous seasons, I know what I was avoiding and why I created a true PROSPECT list in a PROSPECT RANKING thread to begin with.
No offence intended.
There is nothing wrong with my criteria because I've qualified it, before I created the list.
Like I said, because it arbitrarily narrows the scope of what's being discussed I think it creates a less extensive answer to the fundamental question which is the overall strength(and effective depth chart) of the organizational pool of young players.
Nah, quite frankly, you're just being a dick.
When Pronman does his annual prospect rankings (who quite frankly I find more credible than anyone on PPP) does he include full time NHL'ers?
Does McDavid still show up? No. No he does not.
Wow, resorting to name calling... classy. Seriously though, herman brought up the PPP T25U25 and you responded to that by changing the parameters. Kudos for sticking to your guns, but you've basically stolen the topic from talking about the T25U25 into a discussion of what YOU care about. I say we just ignore you and just move on to talking about the T25U25.
Which I invited anyone to do. I think a T 25 U 25 belongs in the main section because it includes full time NHL'ers.
I don't think its fair to rank an unproven prospect against a full time NHL'er and yes name calling because all Nik and Busta have tried to do is discredit my list since I created it using a perfectly accepted industry model. Multiple posters now (RL and BF) have had no problem discussing my list upon qualifying my criteria.
Neither Nik or Busta created legitimate lists but had no problem trying to paint mine as invalid when it comes to ranking prospects even though it is the very model the ENTIRE NHL uses.
But I guess here the PPP is more credible because in their list it allows for all players in the system under 25, that pitts prospects against full time NHL'ers.
I've clicked on those PPP lists in previous seasons, I know what I was avoiding and why I created a true PROSPECT list in a PROSPECT RANKING thread to begin with.
No offence intended.
This thread doesn't have any ironclad rules defining it. Last years edition of PPP's T25U25 was discussed at the beginning of it. While it's not a prospect ranking per se, it does include most of them so it's not forbidden to discuss here.
(on that note I split this off from last years thread so there's really no point in not having it by itself)
All in all, this was a pretty silly thing to get worked up about, but that's what happens when we don't have a Stamkos thread to unload on.
There is nothing wrong with my criteria because I've qualified it, before I created the list.
Like I said, because it arbitrarily narrows the scope of what's being discussed I think it creates a less extensive answer to the fundamental question which is the overall strength(and effective depth chart) of the organizational pool of young players.
Nah, quite frankly, you're just being a dick.
When Pronman does his annual prospect rankings (who quite frankly I find more credible than anyone on PPP) does he include full time NHL'ers?
Does McDavid still show up? No. No he does not.
Wow, resorting to name calling... classy. Seriously though, herman brought up the PPP T25U25 and you responded to that by changing the parameters. Kudos for sticking to your guns, but you've basically stolen the topic from talking about the T25U25 into a discussion of what YOU care about. I say we just ignore you and just move on to talking about the T25U25.
Which I invited anyone to do. I think a T 25 U 25 belongs in the main section because it includes full time NHL'ers.
I don't think its fair to rank an unproven prospect against a full time NHL'er and yes name calling because all Nik and Busta have tried to do is discredit my list since I created it using a perfectly accepted industry model. Multiple posters now (RL and BF) have had no problem discussing my list upon qualifying my criteria.
Neither Nik or Busta created legitimate lists but had no problem trying to paint mine as invalid when it comes to ranking prospects even though it is the very model the ENTIRE NHL uses.
But I guess here the PPP is more credible because in their list it allows for all players in the system under 25, that pitts prospects against full time NHL'ers.
It pits players of a certain age bracket against each other. If that's the intention of the list how is that list considered a non-credible list? Like I said before, sometimes prospect lists are terrible because you have players "graduating" at 20 and the depth of youth in the organization is then considered bad, when in reality that team could have the best pool of young players because, you know, they're GOOD players playing in the league at 19 or 20. I think Auston Matthews is far more valuable than someone like Frederik Gauthier today, and he will still be far more valuable come October when Matthews is playing full time for the Leafs at 18 and Gauthier is a possible career AHLer. But you know, he makes the list!
This thread doesn't have any ironclad rules defining it. Last years edition of PPP's T25U25 was discussed at the beginning of it. While it's not a prospect ranking per se, it does include most of them so it's not forbidden to discuss here.
(on that note I split this off from last years thread so there's really no point in not having it by itself)
I've clicked on those PPP lists in previous seasons, I know what I was avoiding and why I created a true PROSPECT list in a PROSPECT RANKING thread to begin with.
No offence intended.
This thread doesn't have any ironclad rules defining it. Last years edition of PPP's T25U25 was discussed at the beginning of it. While it's not a prospect ranking per se, it does include most of them so it's not forbidden to discuss here.
(on that note I split this off from last years thread so there's really no point in not having it by itself)
All in all, this was a pretty silly thing to get worked up about, but that's what happens when we don't have a Stamkos thread to unload on.
LOL, too true. ;D
3 pages to discuss the validity of the prospect list I chose to create that included only prospects.... ::)
Eligibility
Most drafted NHL prospect rankings use Calder Memorial Trophy criteria to dictate who is eligible to be ranked and who isn't. Calder eligibility is currently dictated by a number of criteria. First, the player must be under 26 years old by September 15 of their rookie season. Second, the player must not have played more than 25 games in a single season or six or more games in two separate preceding seasons.
While I will use the latter to dictate eligibility, I have amended the age for the former. Because we know that a player is no longer a prospect at age 26, and the average NHL player begins to decline between the age of 26 and 30, the criteria for this ranking will dictate that a player must be 24 years old or younger by the start of his rookie season.
Top 60 Prospects (modified Calder rules), per Scott Wheeler
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/7/20/12212480/2016-top-60-drafted-nhl-prospects-rankingQuoteEligibility
Most drafted NHL prospect rankings use Calder Memorial Trophy criteria to dictate who is eligible to be ranked and who isn't. Calder eligibility is currently dictated by a number of criteria. First, the player must be under 26 years old by September 15 of their rookie season. Second, the player must not have played more than 25 games in a single season or six or more games in two separate preceding seasons.
While I will use the latter to dictate eligibility, I have amended the age for the former. Because we know that a player is no longer a prospect at age 26, and the average NHL player begins to decline between the age of 26 and 30, the criteria for this ranking will dictate that a player must be 24 years old or younger by the start of his rookie season.
The only ones that matter:
1. Auston Matthews
4. William Nylander
6. Mitch Marner
The Leafs have the most players in the top 10 at 3, but they only have that many players on this (objectively subjective) list in its entirety. Arizona is sporting 7!
William Nylander has been having an NHL summer on Instagram.
PB: What is your weight now, as I am sure you built up a bit extra during the summer?
CG: I weigh about 194 lbs, I gained a bit since last season.
PB: How was it being drafted by Toronto, a true classic team, and a crazy [I think you mean 'excellent', Patrik! -- Acha] hockey town?
CG: It was great fun, I was there for development camp I got a great impression of the team. They are very professional.
PB: Have they spoken to you about what you need to develop further in your game?
CG: We didn't speak about it that much, no.
PB: Do you have an idea about the other prospects in the Toronto system?
CG: Nah not really to be honest, I know Nylander and Matthews obviously but those are the ones I know, I just enjoy watching good hockey so that's what I do.
Grundström's contract is for two years, and he was drafted outside the first round. Just like Mattias Janmark and Artturi Lehkonen, this means as he has a valid contract with a European team. He can't go to AHL while that is in effect, according to the CBA. After this season, he can play for either Toronto Maple Leafs or Frölunda HC.
"I worked a lot on my first step and that allowed me to get open a lot more and be able to find those shot lanes, and even finding guys on the ice was a little easier this year."
So TLN's top-10 will consist of:
Matthews
Nylander
Marner
Brown
Kapanen
Johnson
Zaitsev
Soshnikov
Dermott
Timashov
(That's how I'd probably rank them)
Yeah...we need better defensemen.
Yeah...we need better defensemen.
Samuel Girard would have been #1 in my heart had we picked him.
Bracco was probably my favourite 2015 draft pick, aside from Marner which is too obvious. I would have been happy with him at 34 so the fact that we got him at 61 was a major coup as far as I'm concerned. He had a really good first season in the OHL, but was overshadowed by Marner's dominance. Here's hoping he has an even bigger D+2 season, especially since he's in line to play a much bigger role with Kitchener. And hopefully the US takes him to the WJCs this time.
Yeah...we need better defensemen.
Samuel Girard would have been #1 in my heart had we picked him.
There's a pond in my dreams where Girard and Kylington are just passing the puck back and forth, just out of reach of a straining Yegor Korshkov.
Girard is a Hab? When did I miss that?
Because then why limit it at 25? Why not assess our ENTIRE talent pool. That certainly broadens things.
I answered that in the post you quote.
In one respect you did answer it but you did not direct an answer to the meaning of the more recent question, namely, if broadening the pool under discussion is important enough to include regular NHL players merely because there are under age 25 (e.g. Morgan Reilly who is by no definition a prospect, he is a developing NHL player with several years in the league and zero chance of going to the AHL other than for reconditioning after an injury), then that principle should also lead to elimination of the arbitrary age 25 limit.
A note on why 25 works as the age cap when assessing an organization's talent depth
PPP: 13. Dmytro Timashov (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/8/24/12583406/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-dmytro-timashov-is-lucky-13)
TLN: 8. Dmytro Timashov (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/24/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-8-dmytro-timashov)
Timashov was my favourite pick after Marner in 2014. He's got every tool outside of size (but strength is not an issue). He's Marlie-eligible this year, and I can see him staying there for the next two years, with brief stints in the NHL on call ups. Plays a similar game to Soshnikov, but with more skill and playmaking and more development runway. He would have placed higher in my personal T25U25 list (bottom half of top 10).
PPP: 13. Dmytro Timashov (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/8/24/12583406/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-dmytro-timashov-is-lucky-13)
TLN: 8. Dmytro Timashov (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/24/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-8-dmytro-timashov)
Timashov was my favourite pick after Marner in 2014. He's got every tool outside of size (but strength is not an issue). He's Marlie-eligible this year, and I can see him staying there for the next two years, with brief stints in the NHL on call ups. Plays a similar game to Soshnikov, but with more skill and playmaking and more development runway. He would have placed higher in my personal T25U25 list (bottom half of top 10).
Alot has happened in Leafland recently for sure, making Marner and Timashov's draft seem like ages ago, but they were in fact drafted in 2015, just to clarify.
Thank god your here Herman you are keeping this board alive thru the dog days.
Thank god your here Herman you are keeping this board alive thru the dog days.
Thank the board for giving me the appearance of being occupied during work =)
To my eye test, I really liked Brown's game this past spring in those few games that he played with the big club.
If I recall correctly, Babcock was speaking very highly of him as well.
To my eye test, I really liked Brown's game this past spring in those few games that he played with the big club.
If I recall correctly, Babcock was speaking very highly of him as well.
Brown is faster than I expected! I remember the knock against him early on was his skating, but he usually overcame it with sheer determination to get into the right spot to make smart plays.
I still don't really know what to think of Rychel yet. He is not expansion draft exempt either.
Does he have the 'drive-train' to play the power forward game? He's got hands for sure, but the wheels are just climbing towards average. Is he a slightly slower, more offensive-minded Tobias Lindberg?
1) Toronto Maple Leafs Previous rank: 2
Toronto has the best farm system in the NHL and it isn't close. Based on my prospect definitions, there are zero reasonable arguments for anyone to even be in the same conversation. Not only do they have a ton of elite talent in players like Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander, but their depth is elite too. There are at least 20 prospects in this system that would fit in many other teams' top 10.
Corey Pronman ranked all of the teams' based on their prospects, the Leafs were #1 with this write-up. It's an Insider article so I won't reproduce anything more from it:Quote1) Toronto Maple Leafs Previous rank: 2
Toronto has the best farm system in the NHL and it isn't close. Based on my prospect definitions, there are zero reasonable arguments for anyone to even be in the same conversation. Not only do they have a ton of elite talent in players like Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander, but their depth is elite too. There are at least 20 prospects in this system that would fit in many other teams' top 10.
Actually had this ready to go 2 hours ago but passed out after reading that.
Corey Pronman ranked all of the teams' based on their prospects, the Leafs were #1 with this write-up. It's an Insider article so I won't reproduce anything more from it:Quote1) Toronto Maple Leafs Previous rank: 2
Toronto has the best farm system in the NHL and it isn't close. Based on my prospect definitions, there are zero reasonable arguments for anyone to even be in the same conversation. Not only do they have a ton of elite talent in players like Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander, but their depth is elite too. There are at least 20 prospects in this system that would fit in many other teams' top 10.
Actually had this ready to go 2 hours ago but passed out after reading that.
Corey Pronman ranked all of the teams' based on their prospects, the Leafs were #1 with this write-up. It's an Insider article so I won't reproduce anything more from it:Quote1) Toronto Maple Leafs Previous rank: 2
Toronto has the best farm system in the NHL and it isn't close. Based on my prospect definitions, there are zero reasonable arguments for anyone to even be in the same conversation. Not only do they have a ton of elite talent in players like Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner and William Nylander, but their depth is elite too. There are at least 20 prospects in this system that would fit in many other teams' top 10.
Actually had this ready to go 2 hours ago but passed out after reading that.
What a difference a few years makes! It wasn't that long ago that, in spite of the Leafs having been awful, the prospect depth was ordinary at best.
I heart Soshnikov, who fills the gap left when Kulemin was shown the door. He's not as sturdy or defensive as Kulemin, but Soshnikov plays a pretty similar game, which I have dubbed: heavy Russian. High skill and puck possession + wrecking ball mentality.
Pronman: Defining a prospect is important when assessing a pool since many players live on the boundaries of being a prospect or not. For purposes of this ranking, a player is graduated if they have played 25 games or more in any NHL season, or 50 total in their career. Ultimately, the inclusion or exclusion of one player doesn't move a team up or down 12-15 spots, unless you're talking top-10 overall prospects.
In terms of tiers, the Maple Leafs are their own tier up top, then after jumping down about five stories we have the Coyotes, Jets and Blue Jackets in a tier, then I'd put everyone from the Hurricanes (No. 5) through the Flames (No. 9) in another tier, before a marginal decline begins from the Predators (No. 10) onwards. Each team's previous rank refers to the edition preceding the 2015-16 season.
I still don't really know what to think of Rychel yet. He is not expansion draft exempt either.
Does he have the 'drive-train' to play the power forward game? He's got hands for sure, but the wheels are just climbing towards average. Is he a slightly slower, more offensive-minded Tobias Lindberg?
Kerby Rychel too me is going to be Carter Ashton 2.0.
I heart Soshnikov, who fills the gap left when Kulemin was shown the door. He's not as sturdy or defensive as Kulemin, but Soshnikov plays a pretty similar game, which I have dubbed: heavy Russian. High skill and puck possession + wrecking ball mentality.
I like shoshnikov as well, but I don't see all that much in common with Kulemin, apart from being russian. Kulemin didn't go out of his way to make big hits, nor agitate, and really didn't have much flash to his game. I see a much closer comparable to uncle leo, but with more tools on the offensive side than the defensive.
What a difference a few years makes! It wasn't that long ago that, in spite of the Leafs having been awful, the prospect depth was ordinary at best.
What a difference a few years makes! It wasn't that long ago that, in spite of the Leafs having been awful, the prospect depth was ordinary at best.
I heart Soshnikov, who fills the gap left when Kulemin was shown the door. He's not as sturdy or defensive as Kulemin, but Soshnikov plays a pretty similar game, which I have dubbed: heavy Russian. High skill and puck possession + wrecking ball mentality.
I like shoshnikov as well, but I don't see all that much in common with Kulemin, apart from being russian. Kulemin didn't go out of his way to make big hits, nor agitate, and really didn't have much flash to his game. I see a much closer comparable to uncle leo, but with more tools on the offensive side than the defensive.
There are certainly differences, and your observation about Sosh going out of his way is a good one. I was thinking more along the lines of the largely North-South game (which is rather not traditional Russian hockey), fearless disruption style checking, and scoring touch. I think it might be a bit of an Ovechkin effect.
The PPP article (that I read after I wrote my own hot take) compares Soshnikov to a Kulemin-Grabovski-Komarov hybrid.
Actually Grabovski is a good comparable, in my mind, despite being a centreman. Hopefully he pans out to be as good as any of those guys.
Thanks for the link - but in reading it, I really wonder what makes the whole article even worthwhile. Understanding Herman's point earlier in the thread about the caveats, I have hard time seeing teams - ie: Florida as the "worst" ranked team on this list, because that ranking has pretty minimal relevance to mid and long term organizational strength, what with such a young, talented core - that just happens to miss an arbitrary cutoff, that substantially benefits a particular readership bias of a rather rabid fan base.
Thanks for the link - but in reading it, I really wonder what makes the whole article even worthwhile. Understanding Herman's point earlier in the thread about the caveats, I have hard time seeing teams - ie: Florida as the "worst" ranked team on this list, because that ranking has pretty minimal relevance to mid and long term organizational strength, what with such a young, talented core - that just happens to miss an arbitrary cutoff, that substantially benefits a particular readership bias of a rather rabid fan base.
Thanks for the link - but in reading it, I really wonder what makes the whole article even worthwhile. Understanding Herman's point earlier in the thread about the caveats, I have hard time seeing teams - ie: Florida as the "worst" ranked team on this list, because that ranking has pretty minimal relevance to mid and long term organizational strength, what with such a young, talented core - that just happens to miss an arbitrary cutoff, that substantially benefits a particular readership bias of a rather rabid fan base.
I will say virtually every prospect ranking system out there defines prospects the same way (basically using the NHL's definition of what a rookie is), so it's not like ESPN set up a particular guideline to specifically cater to Leafs fans.
In the end I definitely think that something like PPP's T25U25 is a better way to go when trying to determine every franchise's long-term organizational strength, but prospect rankings still have value. And in the case of Florida, they probably actually roughly agree with what Pronman wrote, otherwise they wouldn't have completely re-vamped their entire scouting staff this summer. Outside of their 1st round picks (2 of whom were lottery selections), it looks like they'll be hard pressed to come up with a single NHL regular from their 2012, 2013, and 2014 drafts.
Which is funny because, that was one of the things that has haunted the Oilers the last couple of years. However, the Panthers have found a way to overcome it, and the Oilers, well they traded Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.
Which is funny because, that was one of the things that has haunted the Oilers the last couple of years. However, the Panthers have found a way to overcome it, and the Oilers, well they traded Taylor Hall for Adam Larsson.
The Panthers were essentially built through 4 drafts. In 2010 and 2011 they had lottery selections that didn't produce elite talent (Gudbranson, Huberdeau) and a boatloat of top-90 selections that produced regular NHLers (Trotchek, Shaw, Bjugstad, Howden, Petrovic). Then 2013 and 2014 was like the opposite, those lottery selections did produce elite talent (Barkov, Ekblad) but possibly nothing after that.
Well that article got me a little more excited about Zaitsev than I've been before. He's that good, huh?
This is fun: Pronman's top 120 Prospects ranked
https://m.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/50bly0/pronman_top_120_prospects_ranked/
Guess who is #1!
This is fun: Pronman's top 120 Prospects rankedI still prefer a C over a W any day.
https://m.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/50bly0/pronman_top_120_prospects_ranked/
Guess who is #1!
This is fun: Pronman's top 120 Prospects ranked
https://m.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/50bly0/pronman_top_120_prospects_ranked/
Guess who is #1!
This is fun: Pronman's top 120 Prospects ranked
https://m.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/50bly0/pronman_top_120_prospects_ranked/
Guess who is #1!
Pronman clearly knows nothing.
This is fun: Pronman's top 120 Prospects ranked
https://m.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/50bly0/pronman_top_120_prospects_ranked/
Guess who is #1!
Pronman clearly knows nothing.
I find it bizarre some of the comments trying to justify Strome's higher ranking to Marners when Marner had the best season of any CHLer.
1. Strome had a pretty terrific season himself, and he didn't have the linemates Marner had.
2. Having the best season in the CHL is no guarantee of anything.... see: Corey Locke
That said, I'd still rather have Marner over Strome. Though, it helps that we have Matthews as our #1 center of the future.
1. Strome had a pretty terrific season himself, and he didn't have the linemates Marner had.
2. Having the best season in the CHL is no guarantee of anything.... see: Corey Locke
That said, I'd still rather have Marner over Strome. Though, it helps that we have Matthews as our #1 center of the future.
Yeah, I don't really have a problem with that ranking. 1.98 vs 2.03 for their PPG's this season. Not a massive difference, although Marner's post-season play was much more impressive. I'm a little more surprised that he has Keller over Nylander, especially since Pronman has always been one of Nylander's biggest fans.
Pronman explained in more detail why he preferred Laine over Matthews when his draft rankings came out a few months ago, there'd be no reason for that to have changed since then.
PLAYER SKATING PUCK SKILLS OFF. IQ DEF. IQ SHOT PHYSICAL GAME Auston Matthews 60 70 60 55 65 55 Patrik Laine 50 65 70 45 75 65 Connor McDavid 75 75 75 60 55 45 Jack Eichel 60 65 65 60 60 55 Sam Reinhart 50 60 70 65 55 45 Nathan McKinnon 80 65 60 50 55 50
Pronman explained in more detail why he preferred Laine over Matthews when his draft rankings came out a few months ago, there'd be no reason for that to have changed since then.
ICYMI: Here (https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/4j19ew/why_patrik_laine_not_auston_matthews_is_the_top/)'s his explanation pre-draft.Quote
PLAYER SKATING PUCK SKILLS OFF. IQ DEF. IQ SHOT PHYSICAL GAME Auston Matthews 60 70 60 55 65 55 Patrik Laine 50 65 70 45 75 65 Connor McDavid 75 75 75 60 55 45 Jack Eichel 60 65 65 60 60 55 Sam Reinhart 50 60 70 65 55 45 Nathan McKinnon 80 65 60 50 55 50
This is the table that's all mashed up in that copy/paste that I pulled out into more of a table. The average scores (if each category was weighted equally) aren't listed, but Pronman has them in this order: McDavid, Laine, Matthews/Eichel, McKinnon, Reinhart.
"Higher floor" (Matthews) or "higher ceiling" (Laine). Which would you have chosen?
In spite of Pronman's comparisons using certain analytical data, I believe that Matthews was and is the best choice that will befitt the Leafs. True, Laine has that something special that Matthews doesn't, and Matthews has that something that Laine doesn't. But, for the Leafs and considering their needs, plus the fact that they harbour an array of smart offensive producers in Nylander, Soshnukov, etc., etc., Matthews' unique skill levels as a centre is something they lack in that true sense of "something special".
So, again, Pronman's comparables, while appreciated, cannot be applied to the Matthews/Laine category as pertaining to the Leafs per se.
PPP: 6. Nikita Zaitsev (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/9/2/12720998/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-nikita-zaitsev-debuts-at-number-6)
TLN: 1. Auston Matthews
Suffice it to say, I see no reason to be worried about Zaitsev's probable output in the NHL offensively. At the lower end he projects as a top 90 D man in the NHL (top 3) offensively. If he hits his projected totals from the past two years he would be providing top pair offense, and if he continues to develop as an NHLer he's going to be an All-Star.
PPP: 6. Nikita Zaitsev (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/9/2/12720998/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-nikita-zaitsev-debuts-at-number-6)
TLN: 1. Auston Matthews
From the PPP article:QuoteSuffice it to say, I see no reason to be worried about Zaitsev's probable output in the NHL offensively. At the lower end he projects as a top 90 D man in the NHL (top 3) offensively. If he hits his projected totals from the past two years he would be providing top pair offense, and if he continues to develop as an NHLer he's going to be an All-Star.
I mean I'm hopeful Zaitsev turns into a legit NHLer and from all the scouting reports and stuff he sounds like a really promising player, but it seems like we're going into this season with awfully high expectations for him and his career.
I mean I'm hopeful Zaitsev turns into a legit NHLer and from all the scouting reports and stuff he sounds like a really promising player, but it seems like we're going into this season with awfully high expectations for him and his career.
Wonder what the plan is for Connor Brown. He ripped it up in Junior, looked pretty decent in a few games with the Leafs. Nobody really seems to talk about him that much.
I mean I'm hopeful Zaitsev turns into a legit NHLer and from all the scouting reports and stuff he sounds like a really promising player, but it seems like we're going into this season with awfully high expectations for him and his career.
What are you talking about? High expectations for Leaf prospects by Leaf fans?
That's ridiculous.
Zaitsev will probably end up being a cross between Ray Bourque and Vladimir Konstantinov...but he ain't no Nik Lidstrom.
Wonder what the plan is for Connor Brown. He ripped it up in Junior, looked pretty decent in a few games with the Leafs. Nobody really seems to talk about him that much.
True dat Nik, Brown and several of the others should be on the big team and have mentorship from JVR, Komarov and Laitch.
Bottom line: playing off-handed is really challenging, and has a serious impact on a defender's shot differentials. Rielly's extended time as a lefty playing right-side is very probably hurting his shots against. Partner and playing side are at least part of what's wrong for Rielly, and if we can find a suitable RHD partner for him, as Arvind suggests, that will go a long way towards fixing things.
Agreed thats why I would love to see them move out Bozak and Lupul and perhaps trade JVR for a great pick.
Do you think our weird roster decisions and general Marlie suppression might have something to do with the expansion draft?
Do you think our weird roster decisions and general Marlie suppression might have something to do with the expansion draft?
Do you think our weird roster decisions and general Marlie suppression might have something to do with the expansion draft?
In what way? We already know who is and isn't exempt from the draft. Where guys like Soshnikov, Hyman, Brown, and Leipsic play won't effect that at this point.
It could, I suppose, but given that you lose one player at most in the draft it's really hard for me to see a scenario where the relative edge you gain there is worth it.
Less about protecting those graduate-ready prospects, and more about having enough middling players fulfilling the draft requirements to choose from, considering each candidate has to reach 40 games played (or 70 the past two). Sort of taking advantage of this projected water treading season by loading up on chaff to draw fire.
Player Exposure Requirements:
* All Clubs must meet the following minimum requirements regarding players exposed for selection in the Expansion Draft:
i) One defenseman who is a) under contract in 2017-18 and b) played in 40 or more NHL games the prior season OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the prior two seasons.
ii) Two forwards who are a) under contract in 2017-18 and b) played in 40 or more NHL games the prior season OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the prior two seasons.
I don't think it's that each exposed player has to reach that mark, just that a few doQuotePlayer Exposure Requirements:
* All Clubs must meet the following minimum requirements regarding players exposed for selection in the Expansion Draft:
i) One defenseman who is a) under contract in 2017-18 and b) played in 40 or more NHL games the prior season OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the prior two seasons.
ii) Two forwards who are a) under contract in 2017-18 and b) played in 40 or more NHL games the prior season OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the prior two seasons.
https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-expansion-draft-rules/c-281010592 (https://www.nhl.com/news/nhl-expansion-draft-rules/c-281010592)
It seems like the Leafs would pretty comfortably hit that requirement regardless so long as you've got a couple of scrub regulars around. The Leafs will lose their best unprotected player so having a bunch of bad unprotected players doesn't seem to impact who they lose one way or the other.
And most of the "middling" players that we have who will potentially be taking playing time from younger players (Michalek, Greening, Laich) are UFAs after this season, so they won't help us reach any requirements for the draft unless the Leafs re-sign them (which they better not).
Is Marner a centre or a winger, though? He played a lot of centre on the Knights before his final year, but he is almost certainly going to end up at wing on the Leafs, just given that the competition for the top centre's job is a little tougher. But as a winger capable of playmaking in the offensive zone, like Nylander is as well, no one should expect him to be a passenger on any line, not once he gets his skates under him.
There is a meaningful difference between the two positions. Centres make more money, get drafted higher, have more trade value and are often considered the backbone of a team because of their greater responsibilities on the ice.
But the difference is shrinking. Here is Carolina Hurricanes' coach (and former Mike Babcock protégé) Bill Peters talking about a similar "problem" he has.Quote"I know exactly where I see Teravainen slotting in. I have Aho, Lindholm and Teravainen," said Peters. "Now, where they go, I don’t know. Lindy played a little center for us last year, at the end of the year, and was very good. Teravainen was very successful in Chicago playing the off-wing, as a right winger. He also has some ability to play center. I think that’s going to be a line. That way, one guy can take faceoffs on the right side in the ‘D’ zone and the other guy can take faceoffs on the left side in the ‘D’ zone and all three are responsible defensively.So, the Leafs have Auston Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Nazem Kadri and James van Riemsdyk who will all, eventually, be high level, playmaking, goal scoring forwards, four of whom have experience at centre. That seems like a problem that isn't a problem at all.
Mitch Marner racing back on defence and sprawling out to block a shot is the best thing I've seen at summer skate so far
— Kristen Shilton (@kristen_shilton) September 7, 2016
His assistant coach Rob Simpson had this to say in that same report (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/knights-marner-proves-doubters-wrong/):QuoteEarlier this season, London was down 2–1, pushing to tie things up, when four players got caught deep in the offensive end. Marner was on the opposing team’s goal line when a two-on-one materialized the other way. He backchecked, caught up, slid from the hash marks and deflected the puck away. "That’s something you don’t always see from high-end players, that commitment to defence. It shows his will to win," Simpson says.
PPP: 23. Carl Grundstrom (http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/toronto-maple-leafs-top-25-prospects-under-25/2016/8/10/12392012/maple-leafs-top-25-under-25-carl-grundstrom-debuts-at-23)
TLN: 18. Adam Brooks (http://theleafsnation.com/2016/8/10/tln-top-20-prospects-2016-18-adam-brooks)
This is normally the boring part of the list, where those long-term projects are shelved. To an extent, they still are, but they seem to have higher potential this time around than years past.
Not 100% sure what TLN is doing with their list though.
A decent interview with John Paddock about Adam Brooks:
Adam Brooks: A Q&A with Regina Pats head coach John Paddock (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/09/12/adam-brooks-a-qa-with-john-paddock/)
Problem I see is that after Liljegren, there isn't another high pick defenseman until #17.
Granted, it's super early, but Button's got a ranking for the 2017 draft up:
http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-nolan-patrick-stands-above-the-rest-1.566071
Problem I see is that after Liljegren, there isn't another high pick defenseman until #17.
Too early for this sort of thing but I've seen some rankings that had Cal Foote in the top 10. Big guy, right handed shot, had a decent offensive season last year
Too early for this sort of thing but I've seen some rankings that had Cal Foote in the top 10. Big guy, right handed shot, had a decent offensive season last year
I also wouldn't be surprised to see Nicolas Hague ranked higher in other places, based on his size and some decent production.
Granted, it's super early, but Button's got a ranking for the 2017 draft up:
http://www.tsn.ca/craig-s-list-nolan-patrick-stands-above-the-rest-1.566071
Problem I see is that after Liljegren, there isn't another high pick defenseman until #17.
I mean, would be nice to land a top-3 pick stud defenseman, but a team with Matthews, Nylander, and Marner is going to probably bust out of the basement -- even if not much past that, in their first year.
I mean, would be nice to land a top-3 pick stud defenseman, but a team with Matthews, Nylander, and Marner is going to probably bust out of the basement -- even if not much past that, in their first year.
I'm not saying it's impossible but there's a pretty good chance you're talking about 3 forwards who don't crack 50 points.
I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but I think it's more likely than not that Matthews and Nylander crack 50 points. If JvR is healthy and Kadri's playing with a reasonably talented player, good chance they're both over 50. How much of an improvement do you really think it'll take for them to be drafting 5-10?
I'm not saying it's a sure thing, but I think it's more likely than not that Matthews and Nylander crack 50 points. If JvR is healthy and Kadri's playing with a reasonably talented player, good chance they're both over 50. How much of an improvement do you really think it'll take for them to be drafting 5-10?
The Leafs last year were at -48 goal differential. The #5 team, Calgary, was at -33. The #10 team was at -24. So....they probably have to improve differential by 10-15 to get to #5, 20-25 to get to #10.
A 50 point rookie season is a pretty big deal. Some pretty high profile young players haven't hit that total and the ones who have were mainly thrust into the sorts of roles that the Leafs rookies very well might not be in. I wouldn't assume it's likely for any of them.
For an eighteen or nineteen year old coming out of junior, sure. But Nylander's 20 and Matthews is as old as Eichel, has been playing in men's leagues. Not saying it's an easy or sure thing, but the projections I've seen put them over 50, so would say it's more likely they hit it than they don't.
Also, on subject of the team improving and leaving the bottom 5 I think sometimes we look at these things just in isolation. Like the Leafs improvements can be figured just be looking at last year's roster.
But the league is designed to push teams towards the middle. So all teams on the bottom will get better. Paradoxically, that's what makes it hard for teams to climb out of the gutter.
Whether the rookies score 50 points or not aside we have to acknowledge the way other teams have also improved. The Leafs' rivals for the bottom last year will all be adding big pieces and will see their key pieces mature. I don't want to say that the Leafs, of the bottom feeders, improved the least but I don't think there's another team in the bottom 10 where you can't make a case for them improving just as much as the Leafs might.
but what about some of the teams in the upper half of the league falling?
For instance...is this the year that detroit falls off a cliff? what if chara is more awful this year and backes shows his age, what if lundquist finally starts slowing down, what if montreal doesn't make the improvements that most people think they will this year, although it seems like philadelphia has figured things out they still have no goalie, is ottawa any better than last year?
anyways, my point being it might not have to be the bottom dwellers that the leafs leave in the dust but if 2 or three of the bottom dwellers climb at the expense of falling middling teams thats how they move up.
I mean, 2 years ago the kings missed the playoffs, that allowed winnipeg to make it.
is it that crazy to see detroit fallin out and having toronto make it instead? Alot would have to right for toronto but its not comlpetely unthinkable.
but what about some of the teams in the upper half of the league falling?
For instance...is this the year that detroit falls off a cliff? what if chara is more awful this year and backes shows his age, what if lundquist finally starts slowing down, what if montreal doesn't make the improvements that most people think they will this year, although it seems like philadelphia has figured things out they still have no goalie, is ottawa any better than last year?
anyways, my point being it might not have to be the bottom dwellers that the leafs leave in the dust but if 2 or three of the bottom dwellers climb at the expense of falling middling teams thats how they move up.
I mean, 2 years ago the kings missed the playoffs, that allowed winnipeg to make it.
is it that crazy to see detroit fallin out and having toronto make it instead? Alot would have to right for toronto but its not comlpetely unthinkable.
Just to start with, I think you're wrong about the issues in Philly. Steve Mason, in his time there, has a .922 save percentage and Neuvirth is an excellent backup. Last year the Flyers were 8th in the league in Save Percentage and were middle of the pack in goals against. Their offense was a bigger problem(22nd in goals for).
As to the general bulk of your point, I think there's some merit there. Yes, some teams that are good will be less good and some teams that were bad will be less bad. That's what I mean about everyone being pushed to the middle. So, sure, it's easy to see Detroit potentially dropping out of a playoff spot but will they be markedly worse than the Leafs? There's no real reason to think that. Same with Boston. Teams don't tend to go from pretty good to completely terrible in the course of one year. Remember, the Leafs are looking to dig themselves out from the very bottom of the league.
I mean, look at your Kings example. Yes, the Kings missed the playoffs that one year but it's not because they fell off a cliff. Their record in the year they missed the playoffs was identical, even the exact same goal differential, as it was the year they won the cup in 11-12. They were only five points worse than the other year they'd won the cup. This year, they were only 7 points better. Those aren't wild swings. We're talking about the difference of a few games a year. Teams tend to find an equilibrium.
I'm sure there are some outliers where teams have gone from pretty good to terrible in a year or the other way around but I don't think that really changes what I was saying which is that you can't look at a team's improvements in isolation. Detroit has some reasons to be optimistic too(Larkin, Mrazek).
I'm not saying that the Leafs will for sure finish one place or another, just that the sorts of improvements we're talking about usually aren't immediate things. The Leafs have been sinking for a few years now, digging out of the hole will probably be a slow process. The Leafs will, just like last year, have some company at the bottom but it will take some time before they're clearly better than other teams.
I'm not sure that there's been a 7th round pick that made us as excited as Nikita Korostelev did when he was drafted. Unfortunately his D+1 season was a pretty big disappointment. He's a pretty massive long-shot at this point but hopefully he has a big D+2 year.
edit: Hey, apparently Stralman, Gunnarsson, and Johnsson were all 7th round picks.
Quinn MacKeen @quinnesq
Leaf pick Korshkov is #1 in KHL scoring for those 20 or younger; 2nd overall in scoring on his team & has 9 points in last 8 games. Rolling.
Update on our CHL prospects currently at 1.0 PPG or more
Bracco: 6G/11A/17pts in 6 GP
Korostelev: 10G/3A/13pts in 8 GP
Dzierkals: 6G/6A/12pts in 7 GP
Brooks: 3G/4A/7pts in 3 GP
Walker: 5G/3A/8pts in 8 GP
Bracco is OHL Player of the Week. Four goals, nine assists for 13 points in 4 games
1st star of the week in QMJHL? Xavier Potvin. First I'd heard Felix's kid was playing Major Junior.
Cripes, I'm old.
Nik, I am turning 60 tomorrow and I am starting to know what it feels to be old. Nice thing in AZ is the benefits start everywhere at 60 so let the discounts start coming. :'(
1st star of the week in QMJHL? Xavier Potvin. First I'd heard Felix's kid was playing Major Junior.
Cripes, I'm old.
Professor X. He makes you think the 5 hole is open.
Carl Grundstrom has a hat-trick for Frolunda today.
Grundstrom > or = Laine?
1st star of the week in QMJHL? Xavier Potvin. First I'd heard Felix's kid was playing Major Junior.
Cripes, I'm old.
Freshman goalie Joseph Woll has a .926 save-percentage and 2.33 GAA going for No. 8 BC. Nice kid. https://t.co/gN0TdOt0Fx
— Kristen Shilton (@kristen_shilton) October 27, 2016
Freshman goalie Joseph Woll has a .926 save-percentage and 2.33 GAA going for No. 8 BC. Nice kid. https://t.co/gN0TdOt0Fx
— Kristen Shilton (@kristen_shilton) October 27, 2016
Korshkov is torching the KHL.
He's producing at a top 10 all-time pace for 20-year-olds.
Playing only about 13:30 a game too.
They seemed to take a lot of heat for that pick, early signs show that they might have gotten a sleeper.
Indeed herman, huge guy too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/5ax5az/monthly_prospect_update_october_edition_with/
This is a really solid post with an update on most/if not all of our prospects.
| Player | Stage | Games | Goals | Assists | Points | Points/Game | |||||||
| J.J Piccinich | 20 yrs (D+3) | 16 | 8 | 12 | 20 | 1.25 | |||||||
| Jeremy Bracco | 19 yrs (D+2) | 15 | 11 | 19 | 30 | 2.00 | |||||||
| Martins Dzierkals | 19 yrs (D+2) | 19 | 12 | 14 | 26 | 1.37 | |||||||
| Nikita Korostelev | 19 yrs (D+2) | 18 | 15 | 13 | 28 | 1.56 | |||||||
| Adam Brooks | 20 yrs (D+1) | 11 | 7 | 18 | 25 | 2.27 | |||||||
| Jack Walker | 20 yrs (D+1) | 19 | 11 | 11 | 22 | 1.16 |
Adam Brooks has been named WHL Player of the Week.
Player Stage Games Goals Assists Points Points/Game Adam Brooks 20 yrs (D+1) 11 7 18 25 2.27
Also, saying he's in his D+1 season is technically true but somewhat misleading based on what that means since he was draft eligible in 2014. It's really D+3.
Horrible question to have. What are we going to do with this plethora of highly talented scoring forwards? Where are they all going to fit it? How many are we going to have to trade or send to some parallel hockey universe?
That's more optimistic than I am.
a) Fact of the game: not all of them will be good enough to make it
Yeh but if you get even 3 with the guys we already have…?
Yeh but if you get even 3 with the guys we already have…?
Honestly I'd be happy if one of the next round of prospects turns out to be a good nhl player, over the moon if they found two.
Yeh but if you get even 3 with the guys we already have…?
Honestly I'd be happy if one of the next round of prospects turns out to be a good nhl player, over the moon if they found two.
You're going to be very happy.
Yeh but if you get even 3 with the guys we already have…?
Honestly I'd be happy if one of the next round of prospects turns out to be a good nhl player, over the moon if they found two.
You're going to be very happy.
So what's your thoughts on De Brincat Herman?
Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/11/24/jeremy-bracco-is-starting-to-take-over-the-ontario-hockey-league/
Bracco has 43 pts in 20 games now.
This is an interview with his Kitchener Rangers coach, Jay McKee. They go into good depth about his skating (which is effectively weird), his confidence, leadership role, playmaking ability, and succeeding in the NHL 'undersized'.
https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/11/24/jeremy-bracco-is-starting-to-take-over-the-ontario-hockey-league/
Bracco has 43 pts in 20 games now.
This is an interview with his Kitchener Rangers coach, Jay McKee. They go into good depth about his skating (which is effectively weird), his confidence, leadership role, playmaking ability, and succeeding in the NHL 'undersized'.
Interesting points there about how he's about to eclipse his goal totals from last season and how his shots per game is way up too. Averaging 4 shots per game this season vs. just 2.4 last season.
Should we really be excited about Bracco though? He's doing well but he's a year older than Marner. Some really good players hovering near him in OHL scoring are also a year younger than him
Maybe he meant in dog-years.Should we really be excited about Bracco though? He's doing well but he's a year older than Marner. Some really good players hovering near him in OHL scoring are also a year younger than him
He's two months older than Marner.
Should we really be excited about Bracco though? He's doing well but he's a year older than Marner. Some really good players hovering near him in OHL scoring are also a year younger than him
Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk
Sorry long day at work. Yes, two mo the but Marner is in the NHL while Bracco is in the OHL an extra year is what I meant.Should we really be excited about Bracco though? He's doing well but he's a year older than Marner. Some really good players hovering near him in OHL scoring are also a year younger than him
He's two months older than Marner.
Preliminary World Junior Rosters with Leaf prospects:
Russia: Korostelev
Sweden: Grundstrom (unconfirmed)
USA: Bracco (very likely unless they're stupid), Woll (maybe)
Bracco has been the bellweather for the US roster for the past two years, each year getting snubbed for far less skilled big guys. Like when Kessel was left off the World Cup roster because they already had Kane.
Yegor Korshkov broke his leg in the KHL today, such a shame given the year he is having.
#Leafs prospect Carl Grundstrom scored his SHL-leading 11th goal today for Frolunda. pic.twitter.com/ETto70jdy6
— Scott Wheeler (@scottcwheeler) December 2, 2016
I hope it's not the same leg he broke when Bobby Clarke slashed him in the Summit Series.
To be fair on Korshkov's season. He's trailing Brandon Kozun, Petri Kontiola and Maxime Talbot in scoring. So while he's having a great year for a 20 year old, it certainly isn't as if scoring in the KHL is something to only comes to players who are destined to actually be good in the NHL.Ya still a bummer, depending on how bad a break, he will be out at least 2 months of prime development time.
To be fair on Korshkov's season. He's trailing Brandon Kozun, Petri Kontiola and Maxime Talbot in scoring. So while he's having a great year for a 20 year old, it certainly isn't as if scoring in the KHL is something to only comes to players who are destined to actually be good in the NHL.
www.twitter.com/CHLHockey/status/816409719011164161#CHL Player of the Week is @MapleLeafs prospect and @TheWHL Top Scorer @adambrooks77 @WHLPats 10PTS (4G 6A) in 4GP following holiday break pic.twitter.com/rlmQtS7NhH
— CanadianHockeyLeague (@CHLHockey) January 3, 2017
www.twitter.com/JeffMarek/status/818569059444858880OHL News - Jeremy Bracco (TOR) to the Windsor Spitfires pending league approval.
— Jeff Marek (@JeffMarek) January 9, 2017
www.twitter.com/JeffMarek/status/818569059444858880OHL News - Jeremy Bracco (TOR) to the Windsor Spitfires pending league approval.
— Jeff Marek (@JeffMarek) January 9, 2017
It was rumoured during the WJHC that Bracco would be headed to the Knights, but it looks like the Memorial Cup hosts got to him first.
Now, the Leafs just need to get him signed.
If a Player drafted at age 18 or 19 is a bona fide college student at the time
of his selection in the Entry Draft, or becomes a bona fide college student
prior to the first June 1 following his selection in the Entry Draft, and does
not remain a bona fide college student through the graduation of his
college class, his drafting Club shall retain exclusive rights for the
negotiation of his services until the later of: (a) the fourth June 1 following
his selection in the Entry Draft, or (b) thirty (30) days after NHL Central
Registry receives notice that the Player is no longer a bona fide college
student; provided that if the Player ceases to be a bona fide college student
on or after January 1 of an academic year and the Player: (1) is in his
fourth year of college and has commenced his fourth year of NCAA
eligibility, or (2) is in his fourth year of college and is scheduled to
graduate from college at the end of his fourth year, then in the
circumstances described in (1) or (2), the Club shall retain the exclusive
right of negotiation for such Player's services through and including the
August 15 following the date on which he ceases to be a bona fide college
student. The Club need not make a Bona Fide Offer to such Player to
retain such rights.
They're trading picks from 2024!
Is one guy really worth 7 picks?
Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk
The 20-year-old was part of the exciting wave of Leafs callups made after last season’s trade deadline and believes deep down that he should still be a member of the team today.
Scouts who have watched him this year tend to agree with that point of view. There’s even a strong sentiment within the Leafs organization that he’s prepared to make the jump.
“I’m a believer,” said one person on the inside.
Added a scout from another team: “I can’t find a flaw (that will keep him out of the NHL).”
Folding Kapanen and Leipsic(and Nielsen) into this group is going to be fun.
Folding Kapanen and Leipsic(and Nielsen) into this group is going to be fun.
Marlies Week continues at @TheAthleticTO: A closer look at Travis Dermott, the Leafs top prospect on the blueline https://t.co/kxmwMCNK0V
— James Mirtle (@mirtle) January 11, 2017
Folding Kapanen and Leipsic(and Nielsen) into this group is going to be fun.
I think Nielsen is much farther from the NHL than many think. He might be putting up great offensive numbers (mostly on the PP), but most reports of him include a "lost in the defensive zone" statement. We will probably see Dermott or Valiev before Nielsen. Mirtle even calls Dermott our top defense prospect:
www.twitter.com/scottcwheeler/status/830107034058096640My story on Nikita Korostelev, Leafs prospect and highlight reel factory: https://t.co/c78dTgiGsE pic.twitter.com/GGNpNyRlKl
— Scott Wheeler (@scottcwheeler) February 10, 2017
Any updates on Kapanen? Haven't heard much since his leg injury in January?
Any updates on Kapanen? Haven't heard much since his leg injury in January?
Don't often get updates on injured players from the AHL unfortunately. Someone reported it was suspected he'd be out 8 weeks originally. That would put a return date at about the middle of March.
Any updates on Kapanen? Haven't heard much since his leg injury in January?
Don't often get updates on injured players from the AHL unfortunately. Someone reported it was suspected he'd be out 8 weeks originally. That would put a return date at about the middle of March.
Tough break, was hoping to see him up after the deadline.
www.twitter.com/FutureOfThe6/status/832956235943116800Check out this backhand shootout goal scored by Nikita Korostelev #Silky pic.twitter.com/i27MvrYezC
— Future Of The Six (@FutureOfTheSix) February 18, 2017
LOL Craig Button.
Top 5 Leafs Prospects not in the NHL according to Button (in order):
Nielsen
Kapanen
Brooks
Grundstrom
Bracco
Link: http://www.tsn.ca/who-are-the-best-players-not-skating-in-the-nhl-1.677389
It should be noted that Button tends to ignore most guys over 21, leaving the likes of Liepsic and Rychel out.
My take: I don't see how anyone could put Nielsen ahead of Kapanen. And, while its my own opinion, I'd have Dermott ahead of Nielsen too.
It should be noted that Button tends to ignore most guys over 21, leaving the likes of Liepsic and Rychel out.
LOL Craig Button.
Top 5 Leafs Prospects not in the NHL according to Button (in order):
Nielsen
Kapanen
Brooks
Grundstrom
Bracco
Link: http://www.tsn.ca/who-are-the-best-players-not-skating-in-the-nhl-1.677389
It should be noted that Button tends to ignore most guys over 21, leaving the likes of Liepsic and Rychel out.
My take: I don't see how anyone could put Nielsen ahead of Kapanen. And, while its my own opinion, I'd have Dermott ahead of Nielsen too.
For what's it worth, Bob McKenzie said Nielson is an intriguing prospect who might have a future as an offensive d-man, but it's his play without the puck that's concerning. He also mentioned that Dermott might be the better of the two as a prospect though.
It should be noted that Button tends to ignore most guys over 21, leaving the likes of Liepsic and Rychel out.
At first I thought that this meant he had an age-cutoff in his criteria. But I noticed a couple of 22-23 year old guys on those lists. So not including Brendan Leipsic in the Leafs top-5 is pretty inexcusable.
www.twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/839630061116526593Hearing the Maple Leafs will announce shortly the signing of 2nd round pick Carl Grundstrom to an entry level deal.
— John Shannon (@JSportsnet) March 9, 2017
Quotepre-draft scout reports:
a smooth skating offensive minded blueliner…more agile and fluid than a speedster…has impressive hockey sense and vision…makes some incredible high-end passes…not only hitting targets through skates and sticks but also finding open spots to head the puck…has a good hard shot that is has good placement…good defensively as well…while not a bruiser by any stretch physical play is solid, he never shies away from fighting along the boards…likes to use his body to separate the puck from the opponents in one on one situations…reads passes well and can step up to intercept before quickly transitioning the play…offensive puck moving is where he stands out most. [future considerations, december 2014]
possible first round sleeper who has come out of nowhere with eye-popping skating, skills and swashbuckling offensive skills. an aggressive offensive player you will jump up in pinches and fake defenders to him and place the puck to an opponent or simply freeze the defender and blow on by. incredibly cool and confident, with legs and moves that sometimes don’t work, but cause defenders to think about what they might encounter on the next touch. he has elusive puck control that isn’t going to ever stay back if he has an inkling he can make a play. his feet let him get back when the puck is turned over in transition. a bold gunslinger who needs to get stronger, bigger and continue to progress. displays karlsson-like attributes and seems on a quick developmental track to the first round if there is a team looking willing to take the chance to watch him progress. [bill placzek, draftsite.com]
jesper lindgren had a great year despite his terrible team, putting up 24 points [3g + 21a] in 50 gp as a 19 year old rd. that's good enough to be...
1st in u20 defensemen scoring
4th in u20 scoring
7th in defensemen scoring
I wouldn't mind them taking extra time with Engvall and Lindgren because I think they'll be useful depth at minimum.I know highlight reels make anyone look great, but Engvall is #3 in U21 scoring and is 6'4". Looks like he has the scoring touch and skates straight up ice fast. He is certainly going to fill out to at least 220-230 and why not leave him in Sweden for another year and then a year or two with the Marlies.
Lindgren looks more promising of the two due to position and bearing all the skill markers that I'm looking for in defensemen. He narrowly missed out on making the WJC team of stacked defenders.
QuoteDermott progressed in an almost trial by fire, learning to adjust to the AHL pace and increased physicality of the AHL. His strength is a dynamic skating ability combined with heads up playmaking skill, and he exhibited those with timely, simple outlets and complicated stretch passes. Skating skills should allow for more rushing and puckhandling, however, he seemed to conform more to a team concept of moving the puck up ice, and supporting the rush when he could. Struggled initially with some of the AHL physicality at times, but learned to use escape maneuvers (good edges, timely passes and clear avoidance) and teammates as options to move the play along instead of absorbing physical play. Showcased his skillset enough to warrant a potential graduation to the Leafs in 2017-18. Player to watch.
– Scouting report by Gus Katsaros (@KatsHockey)
In the above scouting report submitted to MLHS, Gus Katsaros mentioned Dermott’s ability to adjust to the physical rigors of the AHL. Not the tallest defenceman, Dermott is sturdy (5’11, 215 pounds) and has surprised many opponents with his strength at a tender age, whether that’s winning battles along the boards, laying hits on bigger forwards, or dropping the gloves on two occasions. The physical maturity is there.
Bracco just had a gorgeous assist to put Windsor up late.
www.twitter.com/TLNdc/status/869012239688269825Congratulations to Jeremy Bracco for winning the 2017 Mitch Marner Award for best upstaging of Dylan Strome.
— The Leafs Nation (@TLNdc) May 29, 2017
www.twitter.com/coreypronman/status/869010875730071555Leafs prospect Bracco hits the junior trifecta. U18 WJC gold, U20 WJC gold, and a Memorial Cup.
— Corey Pronman (@coreypronman) May 29, 2017
On the ice, Bracco was magic.
“He's just one of the best players I've played with,” said Mikhail Sergachev, Windsor's top defencemen, of his teammate.
[...]
It wasn't always easy though. Bracco cooled off after his trade from the Kitchener Rangers to the Spitfires at the OHL's deadline.
“When we first acquired him, he was two points a game,” said Spitfires general manager Warren Rychel, who became Bracco's billet father in Windsor. “We had to adjust him and he was cheating a bit. And Bracco was great on the boards tonight. Bracco has been great.”
“Warren took me into his home with his family and I’m grateful for that,” Bracco noted.
The players struggled to adjust to Bracco's style too.
“To be honest with you, at first we couldn't do anything,” Sergachev said. “We couldn't connect with him on the ice because he was just so much different. He’s another level of player. And now he played his best and our team played its best.”
We had to make that decision to trade Jeremy and give him that opportunity to help a team win. There were a lot of teams that were looking for his services, trust me. He’s the best passer in the CHL in junior hockey, bar none, and no one is even close. When he opens up into his 10-2, his skill level is off the charts.
www.twitter.com/Sportsnet/status/869002089375989760The scorefest continues, and it's Aaron Luchuk who gives the Spitfires the lead.
— Sportsnet (@Sportsnet) May 29, 2017
Stream #MCMemorialCup: https://t.co/zUZwk4wTAx pic.twitter.com/ELJYxAKvl8
Such a highly-skilled player. You look at that goal that ended up being the game winner. He starts off that mohawk style skating around the blue line, and no one does it better in the CHL than Jeremy Bracco. He may be the most creatively gifted playmaker in the entire CHL, with all due respect to Mathew Barzal. When you look at that 10-2 skating style — the Jeff Skinner, Ulf Dahlen style of skating — there is no one better than Jeremy Bracco right now. It confuses the defencemen because you don’t know which way he’s going to go. You don’t know what he’s going to do; you don’t know if he’s going to accelerate or decelerate, or if he’s going to shoot or pass.
www.twitter.com/JeffVeillette/status/869612796534824961Leading scorers of recent Memorial Cup Winners
— Jeff Veillette (@JeffVeillette) May 30, 2017
2017: Jeremy Bracco (WSR/TOR)
2016: Mitch Marner (LDN/TOR)
2015: Tobias Lindberg (OSH/TOR)
www.twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/870617531693895680#Leafs didn't sign any of the three. Korostelev going back in the draft, Desrochers and Herzog are UFAs https://t.co/wDXe3EODri
— Kristen Shilton (@kristen_shilton) June 2, 2017
Not signing Desrocher is maybe a little bit surprising, but the Marlies are looking to have quite the LOGJAM of lefties on their blueline next season, so he'd be pretty far down the depth chart there. I wouldn't be completely surprised to see him ink an AHL deal though and start in the ECHL.
Stephen Desrocher is going to Columbus' prospect and development camp this summer as a free agent invite. Probably hoping to score a NHL deal. Maybe he'll consider a AHL-only deal here if that doesn't work out.
Stephen Desrocher is going to Columbus' prospect and development camp this summer as a free agent invite. Probably hoping to score a NHL deal. Maybe he'll consider a AHL-only deal here if that doesn't work out.
I'm still surprised he didn't get a closer look, hopefully an AHL deal transpires.
Stephen Desrocher is going to Columbus' prospect and development camp this summer as a free agent invite. Probably hoping to score a NHL deal. Maybe he'll consider a AHL-only deal here if that doesn't work out.
I'm still surprised he didn't get a closer look, hopefully an AHL deal transpires.
Admittedly I don't really think we're missing out on anything, but it's a little odd because I'm not sure what else he needed to do to earn a contract. His most recent season probably went about as well as anybody could have expected. And he was of course a long-term project pick to begin with.
www.twitter.com/dcmahiban/status/879668126174117888I'm told Nikita Korostelev, the #Leafs 2015 seventh round pick who went unsigned, will be at Toronto's development camp.
— Dhiren Mahiban (@dcmahiban) June 27, 2017
www.twitter.com/LWOSCushman/status/879426765202100224So far, my Leafs development camp count is at 5: Austen Keating, Marc-Olivier Duquette, Reagan O'Grady, Antoine Samuel and Connor Murphy
— Kyle Cushman (@Kyle_Cush) June 26, 2017