Author Topic: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread  (Read 102946 times)

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Offline L K

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2012, 11:12:08 AM »
I really want to see the team bring Hecch up sooner rather than later too, just so he can work with Omar Vizquel for a while.

I don't see why that would happen. I mean, for starters, it's a bit of a leap that because Vizquel is a talented fielder he's going to be a good coach. The team has infield coaches throughout the organization. If Vizquel is on the team he's going to be worrying about his own game. He may be a great mentor and he may not but I don't know that'd be a reason to have two roster spots being taken up by light hitting middle infielders.

And more to the point, most reports I've heard say that there's very little doubt about Hecchevarria's glove. What's going to determine whether he's an everyday player or a bench guy is his bat. I think he'll be better served in that sense being in the minors and getting at-bats than being in the bigs on the bench.

I mean, unless you're talking about Vizquel teaching him how to bunt it seems like a misfire.

About the only other concern I have is one of Snider/Thames being sent down so that Ben Francisco has a roster spot.

I'd hate it if it happened to Snider but again the issue there is one of at-bats. If Thames or Snider are going to be playing every day do you really wanting the other one as the team's 5th outfielder instead of playing every day in Vegas?

McDonald always praised Vizquel for showing him the ropes of how to play defense at the MLB level.  Even if Vizquel can't teach him how to be a great overall player, helping him out with the nuances of the defensive side (I know his potential is to already be good defensively) aren't going to hurt.  I wasn't thinking so much of him sitting on the bench, but getting some time at SS and 2B in the fall, but perhaps prior to September. 

As for Snider/Thames going to Las Vegas, I'm of the opinion that playing in that league isn't all that helpful and I would rather see the loser of the starting job be a utility fielder at LF/RF (well not Thames there but Snider could play the odd game there), 1B and DH.  I think you could easily (assuming production) give both guys 300+ at bats, and at this point for Snider I think that is more valuable than continuing to play him in the minors.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2012, 11:23:42 AM »
McDonald always praised Vizquel for showing him the ropes of how to play defense at the MLB level.  Even if Vizquel can't teach him how to be a great overall player, helping him out with the nuances of the defensive side (I know his potential is to already be good defensively) aren't going to hurt.  I wasn't thinking so much of him sitting on the bench, but getting some time at SS and 2B in the fall, but perhaps prior to September.

The issue there is that, ideally, the Jays have guys at SS and 2B that, ideally, will be getting 550 AB's each.

Now, the way I hear it described Hecchevarria isn't being praised for potentially being a good defensive player but rather that he is, right now, major league ready defensively. The thing that should be dictating where Hecchevarria plays is where he's going to develop into a guy who can hit enough to stay in the line-up.

As for Snider/Thames going to Las Vegas, I'm of the opinion that playing in that league isn't all that helpful and I would rather see the loser of the starting job be a utility fielder at LF/RF (well not Thames there but Snider could play the odd game there), 1B and DH.  I think you could easily (assuming production) give both guys 300+ at bats, and at this point for Snider I think that is more valuable than continuing to play him in the minors.

I don't necessarily disagree with the exception that assuming production neither guy is going to lose AB's to Ben Francisco anyway. The question is then if you think that the team should be giving 300 AB's to guys who aren't producing.
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Offline Sarge

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2012, 12:20:01 PM »
In addition to the Escobar/Hech thing, I'm most interested in the d'Arnaud/JPA thing playing out which I believe could happen first. By most accounts d'Arnaud is close to ready and at some point this year, will be MLB player. Does one on the two get moved or, does d'Arnaud bump JPA who in turn, bumps Lind? I was reading a short while ago that one school of thought would be to convert JPA in to out own version of Napoli (C/1B.)   I'm really hoping for JPA's bat to continue to develop so that option could present itself.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2012, 12:55:56 PM by Sarge »

Offline Peter D.

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2012, 12:54:02 PM »
In addition to the Escobar/Hech thing I'm, most interested in the d'Arnaud/JPA thing playing out, which I believe could happen first. By most accounts d'Arnaud is close to ready at some point this year, will be MLB player. Does one on the two get moved or, does d'Arnaud bump JPA who in turn, bumps Lind? I was reading a short while ago that one school of thought would be to convert JPA in to out own version of Napoli (C/1B.)   I'm really hoping for JPA's bat to continue to develop so that option could present itself.

I know you have to put the best interests of the team first, but does Arencibia's love for the team and the city at all impact what to do with him?  He'd be a good chip to use to improve the ballclub at another position.  But he has really embraced being a Blue Jay and Torontonian, not to mention building a solid relationship with Lawrie, and I wonder if that would have a negative impact if he were dealt.

If the transition for him to first base can be relatively seamless and Lind just sputters along, I think it's something that could/should be seriously considered.

Offline Sarge

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2012, 01:00:15 PM »
In addition to the Escobar/Hech thing, I'm most interested in the d'Arnaud/JPA thing playing out which I believe could happen first. By most accounts d'Arnaud is close to ready and at some point this year, will be MLB player. Does one on the two get moved or, does d'Arnaud bump JPA who in turn, bumps Lind? I was reading a short while ago that one school of thought would be to convert JPA in to out own version of Napoli (C/1B.)   I'm really hoping for JPA's bat to continue to develop so that option could present itself.

I know you have to put the best interests of the team first, but does Arencibia's love for the team and the city at all impact what to do with him?  He'd be a good chip to use to improve the ballclub at another position.  But he has really embraced being a Blue Jay and Torontonian, not to mention building a solid relationship with Lawrie, and I wonder if that would have a negative impact if he were dealt.

If the transition for him to first base can be relatively seamless and Lind just sputters along, I think it's something that could/should be seriously considered.

Firstly, sorry for the bad grammar there... I fixed some of it. Secondly, I think JPA is a guy you need to keep with the team as it grows in part for the reasons you've outlined. Romero, JPA, Lawrie... this whole #teamunit thing. It's exactly why you slide JPA to 1st as opposed to moving him I think... Unless of course, AA gets blown away with an offer.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2012, 01:02:44 PM »
I know you have to put the best interests of the team first, but does Arencibia's love for the team and the city at all impact what to do with him?

Dear jeebus, I hope not.

The Jays are fighting three of the best organizations in baseball within their own division. That kind of demands utter ruthlessness. If Lawrie's the kind of guy who'd react negatively to the team making a decision in the best interest of the ball club then he might as well be the next guy dealt. If the Jays are going to be competitive they'll need to make lots of tough decisions and you may as well get Lawrie used to it as soon as possible.

As to the general question, I think people are looking at this slightly the wrong way. Unless JP can play a good defensive 1B then there's no reason to look at converting him there. There's a perfectly good spot available at DH if and when that becomes an issue. The thing right now is that Arencibia needs to develop his bat to the point where you need to find a position for him.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2012, 08:41:42 AM »

The Jays demoted Travis Snider.

Honestly, I've never seen a guy get jerked around like this.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Newbury

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2012, 10:03:14 AM »

The Jays demoted Travis Snider.

Honestly, I've never seen a guy get jerked around like this.

Wasn't he having a great spring?

Offline Erndog

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2012, 10:04:12 AM »

The Jays demoted Travis Snider.

Honestly, I've never seen a guy get jerked around like this.

Kadri?

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2012, 10:08:34 AM »
Wasn't he having a great spring?

I don't know about great but reports were that he was hitting much better and showing off a much improved swing.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2012, 10:09:02 AM »
Kadri?

Not even close and that should say something.
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
-Mark Twain

Offline Potvin29

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2012, 10:11:18 AM »

The Jays demoted Travis Snider.

Honestly, I've never seen a guy get jerked around like this.

Wasn't he having a great spring?

I thought I read that he had a good start to the spring and kind of fell off towards the end, while Thames was having a good spring as well.

Hopefully we see him back up soon enough.

Offline Peter D.

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2012, 11:19:52 AM »
Some have suggested that Snider's one-handed swing crept back in as spring training progressed.

I'm not overly upset about the Snider situation in the sense that I have always felt underwhelmed by him.  Maybe it's because he hasn't been given a prolonged period to prove himself.  But Thames to be the one to continually outduel him?  Frustrating.  Either something's not there with Snider or management has some sort of soft spot for Thames.  Probably a bit of both.

Offline Potvin29

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2012, 11:24:17 AM »
Thames was pretty highly touted at one point though, wasn't he?  Didn't he fall in the draft because of a bad injury or something?

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 11:25:16 AM »
Some have suggested that Snider's one-handed swing crept back in as spring training progressed.

I'm not overly upset about the Snider situation in the sense that I have always felt underwhelmed by him.  Maybe it's because he hasn't been given a prolonged period to prove himself.  But Thames to be the one to continually outduel him?  Frustrating.  Either something's not there with Snider or management has some sort of soft spot for Thames.  Probably a bit of both.

Either way, it's a bizarre way to treat such a good prospect who actually had a pretty decent year in the majors at the age of 22. We have to watch Adam Lind over the last two years get 1150 PA's at 1B while being unable to get his OPS+ to 100 but we can't give Snider half a season of AB's to hit MLB pitching?
Give a man the reputation of an early riser and he can sleep 'til noon
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Re: 2012 Toronto Blue Jays Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2012, 11:25:16 AM »