Author Topic: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?  (Read 8548 times)

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Offline BMan

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2012, 05:14:47 PM »
I think somewhere Paul Holmgrem is laughing in his best Dr Evil pose. If JVR is this star forward, why did he only get Luke Schenn for him? That's the part that baffles me.

Yeah, because Holmgrem is really good at trading forwards away.
Nice attempt at adding something worthwhile to the discussion Mr Moderator. Try something other then sarcasm, you'll be more happier with yourslef.

Offline BMan

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2012, 05:19:16 PM »
I think somewhere Paul Holmgrem is laughing in his best Dr Evil pose. If JVR is this star forward, why did he only get Luke Schenn for him? That's the part that baffles me.

Who said JVR was a star forward?  He's a promising young forward who has shown some flashes of great play (especially in the playoffs 2 years ago).

So now we are arguing semantics now?  Is Luke Schenn a star defenceman? Or promising?

What?  That's not semantics at all.  There's a huge difference between a "star" and someone who is "promising".  A star would imply that the player has reached his potential and is putting up big numbers for his position already.  Nobody has said that about JVR. 

In regards to Schenn, I don't think anyone has ever called him a star either.  He originally was supposed to be this big "shut-down" type player and he hasn't lived up to that yet.  Both guys have years left to prove their critics wrong.

The term "superstar" is overused these days. There's only been about20 hockey players over the years who are "superstars". I would think using the term "star" is used for those that have earned it. Schenn falls into that category. I mean, he did get honoured on the All Rookie Team so I am not convinced they would give that to just any normal player. I will change my term to "potential" star to make you happy Zee.  ???

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #62 on: June 28, 2012, 06:27:33 PM »
I think somewhere Paul Holmgrem is laughing in his best Dr Evil pose. If JVR is this star forward, why did he only get Luke Schenn for him? That's the part that baffles me.

Yeah, because Holmgrem is really good at trading forwards away.
Nice attempt at adding something worthwhile to the discussion Mr Moderator. Try something other then sarcasm, you'll be more happier with yourslef.

Alright. Teams make bad trades all the time. It's completely insane to suggest that something is wrong with a player just because his former GM traded him for what seems like a player with less value.

It's like saying if Tuukka Rask was such a highly regarded goalie prospect, why did JFJ trade him for Andrew Raycroft? There must be something wrong with Rask. I bet he totally felt he fleeced Boston.

Offline No.92

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2012, 07:02:13 PM »
I think somewhere Paul Holmgrem is laughing in his best Dr Evil pose. If JVR is this star forward, why did he only get Luke Schenn for him? That's the part that baffles me.

Who said JVR was a star forward?  He's a promising young forward who has shown some flashes of great play (especially in the playoffs 2 years ago).

So now we are arguing semantics now?  Is Luke Schenn a star defenceman? Or promising?

What?  That's not semantics at all.  There's a huge difference between a "star" and someone who is "promising".  A star would imply that the player has reached his potential and is putting up big numbers for his position already.  Nobody has said that about JVR. 

In regards to Schenn, I don't think anyone has ever called him a star either.  He originally was supposed to be this big "shut-down" type player and he hasn't lived up to that yet.  Both guys have years left to prove their critics wrong.

The term "superstar" is overused these days. There's only been about20 hockey players over the years who are "superstars". I would think using the term "star" is used for those that have earned it. Schenn falls into that category. I mean, he did get honoured on the All Rookie Team so I am not convinced they would give that to just any normal player. I will change my term to "potential" star to make you happy Zee.  ???

Also, Holmgrem did trade away 2 "stars" that just won the Cup with LA.  And they looked like they contributed pretty well to LA's run so what was wrong with Carter and Richards?  Sure maybe some off-ice debauchery, but apparently it didn't affect them at all when it came to winning a Cup.  So saying that, it is possible that Holmgrem didn't see as much value in having another forward as it is in having a good d-man.

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2012, 08:48:58 PM »
I would think using the term "star" is used for those that have earned it. Schenn falls into that category. I mean, he did get honoured on the All Rookie Team so I am not convinced they would give that to just any normal player.

What? Is this sarcasm?

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #65 on: June 28, 2012, 09:59:58 PM »
The term "superstar" is overused these days. There's only been about20 hockey players over the years who are "superstars". I would think using the term "star" is used for those that have earned it. Schenn falls into that category. I mean, he did get honoured on the All Rookie Team so I am not convinced they would give that to just any normal player. I will change my term to "potential" star to make you happy Zee.  ???

Schenn is not a star in this league. He plays an important role, but he's nowhere near having earned "star" status.

Offline KW Sluggo

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #66 on: June 28, 2012, 10:58:27 PM »
I think somewhere Paul Holmgrem is laughing in his best Dr Evil pose. If JVR is this star forward, why did he only get Luke Schenn for him? That's the part that baffles me.

Yeah, because Holmgrem is really good at trading forwards away.
Nice attempt at adding something worthwhile to the discussion Mr Moderator. Try something other then sarcasm, you'll be more happier with yourslef.

Alright. Teams make bad trades all the time. It's completely insane to suggest that something is wrong with a player just because his former GM traded him for what seems like a player with less value.

It's like saying if Tuukka Rask was such a highly regarded goalie prospect, why did JFJ trade him for Andrew Raycroft? There must be something wrong with Rask. I bet he totally felt he fleeced Boston.

No, there was something wrong with JFJ and all the others around here who based their estimation of Raycroft on the fact that he was a former rookie of the year. Flash in the pan, that is all the Calder year was.

Please do not even think of mentioning that trade, it send my blood pressure through the roof.

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #67 on: June 28, 2012, 10:59:23 PM »
The term "superstar" is overused these days. There's only been about20 hockey players over the years who are "superstars". I would think using the term "star" is used for those that have earned it. Schenn falls into that category. I mean, he did get honoured on the All Rookie Team so I am not convinced they would give that to just any normal player. I will change my term to "potential" star to make you happy Zee.  ???

Schenn is not a star in this league. He plays an important role, but he's nowhere near having earned "star" status.

But...but...but he was a leaf?
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be. - Khalil Gibran

Offline Optimus Reimer

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2012, 10:41:36 AM »
I would not say that Schenn's development was ruined because he will be a really good addition to the Flyers who have a much better defensive system and more stable goaltending - two things the Leafs don't have.  Under RW's defensive system, the players coverage and positional play was very poor.

Offline 895

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2012, 12:58:02 AM »
I think the atmosphere around the Leafs is not always conducive to developing young talent.  Especially during losing years. 

In a winning season, I believe Schenn's mistakes could have been swept under general success of the team until such a time that he improved.  Similarly his mistakes could also have been swept under the general anonimity of a Columbus or Florida until such time that he improved.  Certain conditions on certain teams allow players like Schenn to go through their growing pains until they develop into the players they were meant to be.

Playing in Toronto is tough.  Losing in Toronto is tougher.  So while they did rush him, I don't think it was the only contributing factor to him being ruined.

But it certainly didn't help.  Plus I think they hit the panic button too early.  I would have kept him at least one more season.  I'm not sold on yet another Americano.

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Re: Did the Leafs Ruin Schenn's Development?
« Reply #69 on: July 01, 2012, 12:58:02 AM »