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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: herman on October 21, 2016, 12:45:05 PM

Title: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 21, 2016, 12:45:05 PM
He warrants his own thread.

http://theleafsnation.com/2016/10/21/william-nylander-s-time-will-not-come-for-it-is-already-here

ZOMG.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on October 21, 2016, 12:49:47 PM
He warrants his own thread.

http://theleafsnation.com/2016/10/21/william-nylander-s-time-will-not-come-for-it-is-already-here

ZOMG.

I read that earlier, food for thought for sure.

There is a reason I picked him as this years top scorer.  ;)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 21, 2016, 01:18:12 PM
Reposting this here too:
Quote
#Leafs Most Points Since Feb 29, 2016:

William Nylander - 17
Nazem Kadri - 14
Morgan Rielly - 13

— Sportsnet Stats (@SNstats) October 20, 2016

Feb 29 was Nylander's debut day (along with Hyman, Soshnikov, Kapanen, Carrick on the Leafs, Ben Smith on the Leafs).

Small sample size, but Nylander is also sporting the highest PPG of his draft class at the moment (0.68 over 17 games). Draisaitl (0.58 over 113 games), Larkin (0.55 over 84 games), and Ehlers (0.53 over 76 games) are the next three. He also has the lead in Goals per Game.

Added another point last night for 18 in 26 games.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: No.92 on October 21, 2016, 01:19:09 PM
He has looked fantastic this year.  He no longer loafs around the ice but skates hard and attacks.  If we only had Nylander I'd be pretty happy right now but the fact that we have Matthews and Marner really excites me.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 21, 2016, 02:08:56 PM
2014 Draft Scouting Report from the Redline Report (http://www.redlinereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/2014-Draft-Guide-sampler.pdf). I've never heard of them before.
It is both ughs and unghs.

Quote
11. William Nylander — Södertälje LW-R
Exceptionally skilled - the most dynamic offensiv talent in the draft. But son of longtime NHLer Michael Nylander has been coddled for years. Sometimes selfish, always a diva, and will give coaches grey hair. Has phenomenal hands and a world of skill; handles the puck as though it were glued to his blade, making ridiculous moves at top speed without a bobble. Glides effortlessly and is exceptionally elusive in tight quarters. While he's a brilliant stickhandler, always looks for the flashiest "Wow!" play instead of the simple, correct one. Superb on the PP where he owns the puck and sets up every play. Can slow play down, control the pace, then explode. Tremendous finishing ability. Terrific playmaker with every pass in the book, plus a few extras. Often seems intent only on showing everyone how skilled he is. Small and a bit lazy.
Projection: Small, one dimensional, gamebreaking scorer.
Style compares to: Patrick Kane

Shanahan thanks the scouts that took umbrage with Nylander's perceived attitude issues that led to the Leafs picking him up at 8th.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 21, 2016, 02:17:28 PM

He still looks like he's not old enough to drive though.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Potvin29 on October 21, 2016, 02:18:50 PM
Projection: Small, one dimensional, gamebreaking scorer.
Style compares to: Patrick Kane


I feel like the author of that scouting report didn't intend this to come off as a compliment when it is a huge one.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on October 21, 2016, 02:32:51 PM

He still looks like he's not old enough to drive though.

Marner looks 12.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 21, 2016, 03:08:12 PM
I feel like the author of that scouting report didn't intend this to come off as a compliment when it is a huge one.

Other gems written about other players in that pdf:

"Heats up faster than a Kim Kardashian sex tape"
"Tougher than Beyonce's sister in an elevator"
"More exciting than Kate Upton in a wet bikini contest"

Geeeeze I can't believe people don't talk about Red Line anymore.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on October 21, 2016, 03:10:03 PM
I feel like the author of that scouting report didn't intend this to come off as a compliment when it is a huge one.

The way the whole thing is written sounds that way - and also sounds like complaining that Nylander doesn't play the style of game the author prefers.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 21, 2016, 03:21:37 PM
The ridiculous 1v2 storyline in WPG is only a taste of the nonsense that will allow Nylander to fly relatively under the radar—another reason to thank Mr Unflappable Matthews, who has the personality and maturity to absorb all the media attention and radiate any negative energy right back at them, keeping his fellow rookies mostly out of the glare.  All to Nylander's benefit.

I wouldn't be too awfully shocked if he finished tops in team scoring.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Potvin29 on October 21, 2016, 03:38:26 PM
I feel like the author of that scouting report didn't intend this to come off as a compliment when it is a huge one.

Other gems written about other players in that pdf:

"Heats up faster than a Kim Kardashian sex tape"
"Tougher than Beyonce's sister in an elevator"
"More exciting than Kate Upton in a wet bikini contest"

Geeeeze I can't believe people don't talk about Red Line anymore.

Yeesh, yeah I'm going to go out on a limb and say that their opinion was not taken seriously by anyone.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: No.92 on October 21, 2016, 03:41:32 PM

He still looks like he's not old enough to drive though.

He doesn't need to with the money he's making.  He can just hire a chauffeur.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 21, 2016, 03:47:46 PM
I feel like the author of that scouting report didn't intend this to come off as a compliment when it is a huge one.

Other gems written about other players in that pdf:

"Heats up faster than a Kim Kardashian sex tape"
"Tougher than Beyonce's sister in an elevator"
"More exciting than Kate Upton in a wet bikini contest"

Geeeeze I can't believe people don't talk about Red Line anymore.

Travis Konecny (2015) also got the Kate Upton rating.
http://www.redlinereport.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/RLR-2015-Draft-Guide-sampler.pdf

As dude-bro-douchey as these guys write, they're still apparently smarter than Don Sweeney.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: LuncheonMeat on October 21, 2016, 07:50:47 PM
He warrants his own thread.

http://theleafsnation.com/2016/10/21/william-nylander-s-time-will-not-come-for-it-is-already-here

ZOMG.

Nylander has been a little lost in the hype surrounding the Leafs's shiny new toys, but he has been pretty impressive so far this season. He looks quicker, and stronger on his skates.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: McGarnagle on October 22, 2016, 09:21:03 AM
He's got amazing offensive skills, there's no doubt - but I'm not ready to fall into the camp of 100% accolades without acknowledging a few shortcomings- which my eye test shows a tendency to try to force unnecessarily higher risk plays, virtually zero physicality, and a healthy dose of float - which is easier to manage as a winger, but not down the middle. A ton of this is solved hopefully by coaching and maturity, but I'd bet that if the leafs ever decided to make a move and trade for a franchise D man, they'd part with Nylander vs the other untouchables.

Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Potvin29 on October 22, 2016, 05:33:46 PM
I don't know where the floating comments come from, I don't see that.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 22, 2016, 06:29:25 PM
I don't know where the floating comments come from, I don't see that.

I saw it a little bit last year, not floating exactly but he seemed a little unsure of himself without the puck. This year he's looked much better.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: freer on October 22, 2016, 06:36:51 PM
I don't know where the floating comments come from, I don't see that.

I saw it a little bit last year, not floating exactly but he seemed a little unsure of himself without the puck. This year he's looked much better.

They only thing I see wrong with his play at this time is he is trying to set Matthew's up to much. I hope he starts shooting more rather then passing to Matthews
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 22, 2016, 08:11:13 PM
I don't know where the floating comments come from, I don't see that.

I saw it a little bit last year, not floating exactly but he seemed a little unsure of himself without the puck. This year he's looked much better.

They only thing I see wrong with his play at this time is he is trying to set Matthew's up to much. I hope he starts shooting more rather then passing to Matthews

I agree with this.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 22, 2016, 10:14:00 PM


Pro-rated goals per season (career): 28
He's currently on pace to score 49G this season (114pts). And it doesn't look too unsustainable for him to land somewhere between those two numbers this season (30+).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on October 24, 2016, 03:27:41 PM
Willie was floating a bit last year, that is gone this year and good for him. Can't wait to see him develop as he grows into a Man's body. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bullfrog on October 24, 2016, 11:27:34 PM
He's 20 years old and listed as 5'-11" and 190 lbs. I'm a man and he's both taller and heavier than me.

I think he'll be ok.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: No.92 on October 24, 2016, 11:54:56 PM
I don't know where the floating comments come from, I don't see that.

Same.  He floated a lot last year but he is totally different this year.  He looks very quick too compared to last year.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on October 25, 2016, 04:54:58 PM
He will put on 10-15 lbs of pure muscle and then Thor will kill
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 26, 2016, 09:11:29 AM
He will put on 10-15 lbs of pure muscle and then Thor will kill

If William Nylander is Thor, then Matthews is Mjölnir.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on October 26, 2016, 10:02:36 AM
Bill Ny, the wrist shot guy.  8)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 26, 2016, 10:15:03 AM
He will put on 10-15 lbs of pure muscle and then Thor will kill

If William Nylander is Thor, then Matthews is Mjölnir.

Isn't Matthews Captain America? Who says all the right things, does all the little things without being flashy, but gets the job done?

Marner is Spider-Man.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 26, 2016, 10:28:06 AM
He will put on 10-15 lbs of pure muscle and then Thor will kill

If William Nylander is Thor, then Matthews is Mjölnir.

Isn't Matthews Captain America? Who says all the right things, does all the little things without being flashy, but gets the job done?

Marner is Spider-Man.

Matt Martin is Hawkeye, in as much as nobody can exactly figure out why he's around or what he supposedly adds.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on October 26, 2016, 10:34:41 AM
Matt Martin is Hawkeye, in as much as nobody can exactly figure out why he's around or what he supposedly adds.

I think that's more Zach Hyman, as he's part of the main squad. Matt Martin is more like "Generic SHIELD Agent #15," in that he's there, but doesn't really provide anything.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 26, 2016, 10:42:24 AM
Is Connor Brown Black Widow?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: No.92 on October 26, 2016, 02:05:57 PM
He will put on 10-15 lbs of pure muscle and then Thor will kill

If William Nylander is Thor, then Matthews is Mjölnir.

Isn't Matthews Captain America? Who says all the right things, does all the little things without being flashy, but gets the job done?

Marner is Spider-Man.

Perfect!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: louisstamos on October 26, 2016, 02:20:30 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/XS5LK.gif)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on October 26, 2016, 02:30:24 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/XS5LK.gif)

We may not win the game, but you can be damn sure that we will score in it.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on October 27, 2016, 11:00:30 AM
I've created a monster :o
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 27, 2016, 11:23:46 AM
http://www.tsn.ca/nylander-earns-ribbing-from-vets-for-double-flamingo-1.593099

(http://www.tsn.ca/polopoly_fs/1.593111.1477520998!/fileimage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/william-nylander-double-flamingo.jpg)

I haven't looked into this too closely on the stats side, but I've often wondered why teams don't just try to give the goalie a clean look if the blocking player is pretty far from the shooter.

I'm pretty happy Nylander did not block it (just like I was horrified that time Marner blocked one in Winnipeg that served up the puck on a platter).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Potvin29 on October 27, 2016, 11:32:27 AM
From the replays I've seen if he hadn't lifted his legs he wouldn't have blocked it either because the puck was already past him when he did it.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: McGarnagle on October 27, 2016, 02:31:01 PM
I haven't looked into this too closely on the stats side, but I've often wondered why teams don't just try to give the goalie a clean look if the blocking player is pretty far from the shooter.

I'm pretty happy Nylander did not block it (just like I was horrified that time Marner blocked one in Winnipeg that served up the puck on a platter).

Because a clean shot on goal is still a scoring chance, particularly if you look at the traffic in front of Andersen. It isn't realistic for the forward to check the goalie's visibility before deciding whether or not to block a shot up high.

I don't think Nylander would have blocked it regardless if both feet were on the ice, but I don't think any player should be immune from the responsibility.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on October 27, 2016, 03:32:27 PM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on October 27, 2016, 03:38:15 PM

Matthews to Nylander for the next decade  :D
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on October 27, 2016, 03:49:33 PM

Matthews to Nylander for the next decade  :D

Make it a decade and a half and you got a deal.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on October 29, 2016, 10:31:58 PM


What's been so great with MaNyMa is that they're always trying to make something out of nothing. And with those moves, they usually do.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: freer on October 29, 2016, 11:20:38 PM
Currently the best player on the team with no doubt
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Boston Leaf on October 30, 2016, 06:20:35 AM
Currently the best player on the team with no doubt

yeah I agree... I new he had talent but he has been even better so far this year than I could have imagined
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 30, 2016, 08:10:27 AM

Tough to comment on things like defensive assignments or faceoff wins but I definitely don't see any offensive reason through these first 8 games as to why Nylander can't be a C going forward. He's great with the puck on his stick, brilliant at looking to set up scoring opportunities, confident in his own shot, seems pretty resilient against defenders...he's reminded me a little bit of Nicklas Backstrom.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 30, 2016, 08:12:26 AM

Tough to comment on things like defensive assignments or faceoff wins but I definitely don't see any offensive reason through these first 8 games as to why Nylander can't be a C going forward. He's great with the puck on his stick, brilliant at looking to set up scoring opportunities, confident in his own shot, seems pretty resilient against defenders...he's reminded me a little bit of Nicklas Backstrom.

At this point the only reason for me would be that he just looks so gosh darn good on Matthews' wing.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 30, 2016, 08:29:02 AM
At this point the only reason for me would be that he just looks so gosh darn good on Matthews' wing.

This is true. Certainly the Leafs have the option going forward of keeping the two together. It's why I want to see Kadri-Marner tried out because if that clicks then that could be the basis of a pretty good top two lines going forward.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on October 30, 2016, 09:25:29 AM
I gotta admit, that last year I thought he may turn out to be a floater who would show occassional signs of greatness.  Turns out he is looking and playing like a superstar, hope he keeps it up, no reason why he won't.
Exciting times for sure!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: RedLeaf on October 30, 2016, 09:48:38 AM
I gotta admit, that last year I thought he may turn out to be a floater who would show occassional signs of greatness.  Turns out he is looking and playing like a superstar, hope he keeps it up, no reason why he won't.
Exciting times for sure!

Yeah. Last year I had a feeling he was dipping his toe into the big league pond and finding out what it takes. Much like Marner, and maybe even Matthews are doing now. This year William is fully submerged and is playing lights out so far. Can't wait for the other two rookies to break out of their tempered comfort levels over the next few months or seasons. I have a feeling Matthews and Marner will be even better players.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on October 30, 2016, 09:52:39 AM
Toes in the water, great analogy and I think you're exactly correct with Matthews and Marner.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2016, 11:52:41 AM
At this point the only reason for me would be that he just looks so gosh darn good on Matthews' wing.

This is true. Certainly the Leafs have the option going forward of keeping the two together. It's why I want to see Kadri-Marner tried out because if that clicks then that could be the basis of a pretty good top two lines going forward.

Ultimately I'd like to see Nylander back at C because in my fantasy world we have 3 good scoring lines: 1C Matthews 2C Nylander 3C Kadri aided and abetted by Browns, Kapanens, Johnsons, JVRs, Leipsics, etc etc.

Duh, and Marners  :)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on October 30, 2016, 11:56:35 AM
FWIW Nylander hasn't surprised me as much as Marner.  I didn't expect him to be as responsible defensively as he's been.  If anything, Matthews has made more gaffes than either.

And BTW Nylander can keep doubleflamingoing, Cherry notwithstanding.  Let Martin block shots.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: freer on October 30, 2016, 05:45:46 PM
FWIW Nylander hasn't surprised me as much as Marner.  I didn't expect him to be as responsible defensively as he's been.  If anything, Matthews has made more gaffes than either.

And BTW Nylander can keep doubleflamingoing, Cherry notwithstanding.  Let Martin block shots.

Cherry is right, if you aren't going to block get out of the way. But I do agree it should be Martin blocking shots.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: mr grieves on October 31, 2016, 02:18:11 AM
At this point the only reason for me would be that he just looks so gosh darn good on Matthews' wing.

This is true. Certainly the Leafs have the option going forward of keeping the two together. It's why I want to see Kadri-Marner tried out because if that clicks then that could be the basis of a pretty good top two lines going forward.

Ultimately I'd like to see Nylander back at C because in my fantasy world we have 3 good scoring lines: 1C Matthews 2C Nylander 3C Kadri aided and abetted by Browns, Kapanens, Johnsons, JVRs, Leipsics, etc etc.

Duh, and Marners  :)

But why stop at 3?

Gimme:
Soshnikov - Matthews - Marner
JvR - Nylander - Kapanen
Komarov - Kadri - Leipsic
Johnsson - Holland - Brown

Or whatever.

Just get over the Smiths and the like on the PK and roll four lines that can all score.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: LuncheonMeat on October 31, 2016, 12:40:04 PM
FWIW Nylander hasn't surprised me as much as Marner.  I didn't expect him to be as responsible defensively as he's been.  If anything, Matthews has made more gaffes than either.

And BTW Nylander can keep doubleflamingoing, Cherry notwithstanding.  Let Martin block shots.

Cherry is right, if you aren't going to block get out of the way. But I do agree it should be Martin blocking shots.

I don't think it's that easy. There isn't a lot of time to make that decision, and if a player simply gets out of the way, they're probably creating space for the puck carrier to blow by them.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 31, 2016, 12:43:13 PM
I don't think it's that easy. There isn't a lot of time to make that decision, and if a player simply gets out of the way, they're probably creating space for the puck carrier to blow by them.

Yeah, that's a good point. If a defenseman winds up for a point shot and the guy covering him just gets out of the way there's plenty of time to fake the shot and move in.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 31, 2016, 01:33:01 PM
As of today, Nylander continues to lead his draft class in PPG (0.774) and GPG (0.323) in their NHL careers.

It's still a pretty small sample size and early in the season, but he is on pace for 29 goals/100 pts this year and only not recording a point in 2 games (the wins vs Bos and Fla). If he matches the (limited) career pace, it'd be 26 goals/63 points. Projection by career shooting percentage (13.5%) and avg shots per game (2.39) also points to 26 goals per 82 games.

Is it safe to say he'll be 25 g/60 pt minimum (barring injury)?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 31, 2016, 01:41:53 PM
Is it safe to say he'll be 25 g/60 pt minimum (barring injury)?

I know it's happened in some fairly high profile cases like Domi and Larkin last year but I wonder if a deep dive on things would reveal that there is some truth to the idea that first year players tend to hit a wall when the season and all of its travel begins to pile up.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 31, 2016, 01:51:17 PM
Is it safe to say he'll be 25 g/60 pt minimum (barring injury)?

I know it's happened in some fairly high profile cases like Domi and Larkin last year but I wonder if a deep dive on things would reveal that there is some truth to the idea that first year players tend to hit a wall when the season and all of its travel begins to pile up.

That's a good point. Last year was Nylanders first taste of a nearly full NHL season game load (38 Marlies + 14 Marlies Playoffs + 22 Leafs + WJHC (2 shifts) = 74 GP), with a concussion and appendectomy break in the middle.

What might help Nylander hurdle that wall would be his Pro/AHL time, which neither Domi nor Larkin really had. Nylander's been playing against some level of pro-adult hockey since 2013.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on October 31, 2016, 01:51:31 PM
I don't think it's that easy. There isn't a lot of time to make that decision, and if a player simply gets out of the way, they're probably creating space for the puck carrier to blow by them.

Thank-you!! I never got around to posting about it, but people harping on Nylander in that one screenscrap is really unfair. The puck was behind the net and he was defending down low. When the puck went to the half-boards he correctly identified that Stamkos was open for a pass and started to move to the point to try and defend there. The pass was made as Nylander was already moving towards the point and obviously Stamkos got it off right away with the one-timer.

Also, Hunwick and the Lightning player in front of the net were screening Andersen a boatload more than Nylander was there anyway.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on October 31, 2016, 02:09:37 PM
What might help Nylander hurdle that wall would be his Pro/AHL time, which neither Domi nor Larkin really had. Nylander's been playing against some level of pro-adult hockey since 2013.

Yeah, like I said, I think a deep dive on this sort of thing would be interesting while allowing for all sorts of different groupings. NCAA vs. CHL players, NA vs. Europeans, guys with AHL time vs. without, etc

If there was some evidence that there was distinct pattern to rookie scoring like that I'm sure some of it could be attributed to fatigue but I'd bet things like better pro scouting would factor into it as well. Even with his brief call-up last year I'd guess a lot of teams/players are still getting their first look at Nylander and what he can do.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 01, 2016, 02:04:18 PM
Rookie of the month for October.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: TBLeafer on November 01, 2016, 03:19:43 PM

Toronto Maple Leafs ‏@MapleLeafs  14m14 minutes ago
William Nylander has been named the @NHL Rookie of the Month for October
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 01, 2016, 03:28:51 PM
Echo...echo...echo.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: TBLeafer on November 01, 2016, 03:49:42 PM
Not quite.  Mine has the pretty picture. :)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on November 01, 2016, 05:25:13 PM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on November 01, 2016, 05:43:27 PM
I hope a Leafs player wins rookie of the month each and every month of the season.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Arn on November 01, 2016, 07:15:01 PM

That's actually mind boggling, like, just by a law of averages
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on November 01, 2016, 07:34:52 PM
I know right? How far do you have to go back for Calder... I don't think Wendel in won it in '85. Probably the Sixties.

Matthews, Marner and Nylander could just keep alternating every month  ;D
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 02, 2016, 10:47:35 AM
I know right? How far do you have to go back for Calder... I don't think Wendel in won it in '85. Probably the Sixties.

Matthews, Marner and Nylander could just keep alternating every month  ;D

Brit Selby 1965-1966. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on November 02, 2016, 12:24:39 PM
I honestly didn't think Nylander was this good.  I hope he keeps it up.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 02, 2016, 01:29:04 PM
I honestly didn't think Nylander was this good.  I hope he keeps it up.

I watched a lot of Marlies games last year, the crazy thing is we might just be scratching the surface on what this guy can do.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: L K on November 02, 2016, 02:20:09 PM
I honestly didn't think Nylander was this good.  I hope he keeps it up.

I'm not. :)  Sometimes it takes getting lucky to be good.  The Leafs were fortunate that Will dropped to them.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Potvin29 on November 02, 2016, 02:35:27 PM
I honestly didn't think Nylander was this good.  I hope he keeps it up.

I'm not. :)  Sometimes it takes getting lucky to be good.  The Leafs were fortunate that Will dropped to them.

We could have ended up with *shudders* Jake Virtanen or Nick Ritchie.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Gerald The Duck on November 02, 2016, 02:40:06 PM
I know right? How far do you have to go back for Calder... I don't think Wendel in won it in '85. Probably the Sixties.

Matthews, Marner and Nylander could just keep alternating every month  ;D

Brit Selby 1965-1966.

He taught at my high school, great guy. Unfortunately I didn't have him for any of my classes but everyone who did loved him. I did sit in on a class one day though; I remember him being very funny and there were a few hockey stories thrown in that I wish I could remember.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bates on November 02, 2016, 02:42:19 PM
Whoever spoke to Nylander after last season and whatever they said he sure took it to heart and spent the off-season making sure he was ready to be an everyday NHL player.  What a pleasant surprise for a fan base that usually just don't get any.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on November 03, 2016, 08:17:50 AM
An oldie: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2015/07/26/one-eyed-toronto-maple-leafs-reporter-is-king/

The article isn't even about Nylander, but it shows whatever he's doing now is no surprise to those who have been following his development.
Quote
William Nylander isn’t just squeezing into the Top 10 scorers, or merely outscoring his entire age group. He’s outscoring everyone his age that’s played for 10 or 15 or 20 years. And he’s doing this every year, in every league.

  • In Swedish Junior: Nylander scored at a 1.6 Points Per Game (PPG) pace. Faster than any 16 year old in a decade. Faster than Landeskog, the Sedins, Filip Forsberg, or Gustav Nyquist.
  • The Allsvenskan: He then went on to the Swedish AHL-equivalent, where he scored faster than any 17 year old ever. Faster than Forsberg and Pastrnak and Burakowsky and Backlund and, well… everyone, right?
  • In the SHL: he scored faster than any 18 year old had in 20 years. Faster than both Sedins, Anze Kopitar, and Peter Forsberg. Look, he scored faster than Mats Sundin, and he did this on a disastrously bad, last-place MODO team.
  • AHL: After Nylander ran out of runway in Sweden, he got called over to the AHL. A mid-season change of language, team-mates, rink size and so on is not easy. The result? Well, in 37 games he scored more points than any 18 year old had in five years. He upped his scoring rate every. single. month. as he adjusted, rising from 0.5 to 0.6 to 0.9 to 1.3 PPG — just as he had scaled up his scoring rate in the SHL. He finished the season with 15 points in the last 10 games.
  • International: At every age — 17, 18 and 20 — Nylander has scored more than 1.4 PPG at the Worlds. Pause on that and hit replay for a second: At every age — 17, 18 and 20 — Nylander has scored more than 1.4 PPG at the Worlds. He was the top scorer at the World Under 18’s, and just one point off the lead at last year’s World Junior Championship.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 03, 2016, 08:19:07 AM
I honestly didn't think Nylander was this good.  I hope he keeps it up.

I'm not. :)  Sometimes it takes getting lucky to be good.  The Leafs were fortunate that Will dropped to them.

We could have ended up with *shudders* Jake Virtanen or Nick Ritchie.

Thank-you Vancouver and Carolina!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on November 08, 2016, 11:12:57 AM
I honestly didn't think Nylander was this good.  I hope he keeps it up.

I'm not. :)  Sometimes it takes getting lucky to be good.  The Leafs were fortunate that Will dropped to them.

We could have ended up with *shudders* Jake Virtanen or Nick Ritchie.

Thank-you Vancouver and Carolina!

Looking back on that draft, it's sort of shocking that Vancouver didn't pick Nylander.  They already have the Sedins, and an offensive Swedish player is available, you would have thought that would be a natural to select him and "learn" from the Sedins.  The Leafs gain for sure, but just goes to show you how much luck it involved in the draft, Nylander fell to the Leafs and he's looking like a steal now.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 08, 2016, 11:17:19 AM
Looking back on that draft, it's sort of shocking that Vancouver didn't pick Nylander.  They already have the Sedins, and an offensive Swedish player is available, you would have thought that would be a natural to select him and "learn" from the Sedins.  The Leafs gain for sure, but just goes to show you how much luck it involved in the draft, Nylander fell to the Leafs and he's looking like a steal now.

Yeah I remember thinking that Nylander was a lock there too.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 08, 2016, 11:33:24 AM

That's funny I remember it pretty differently. I remember Virtanen being the consensus guy to Vancouver with the question being which of Ehlers/Nylander/Ritchie the Leafs would go with.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on November 08, 2016, 11:43:30 AM

That's funny I remember it pretty differently. I remember Virtanen being the consensus guy to Vancouver with the question being which of Ehlers/Nylander/Ritchie the Leafs would go with.

I read through the Nylander draft thread recently, and this is what I recall from that thread. Not sure what MSM was pushing for, but a lot of them seemed to think Ritchie was in line with Burke/Nonis drafting philosophy.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 08, 2016, 11:47:52 AM

That's funny I remember it pretty differently. I remember Virtanen being the consensus guy to Vancouver with the question being which of Ehlers/Nylander/Ritchie the Leafs would go with.

It might be revisionist thinking perhaps. I remember the top-5 being set in stone pretty much and the next group of Virtanen/Ehlers/Nylander/Ritchie being up for grabs after that. I think I was basically happy with whichever one of Nylander or Ehlers was left, but was worried Vancouver and Carolina would pick them both.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Andy on November 08, 2016, 12:03:12 PM

That's funny I remember it pretty differently. I remember Virtanen being the consensus guy to Vancouver with the question being which of Ehlers/Nylander/Ritchie the Leafs would go with.

This is just how I remember it too. I didn't want the Leafs to touch Ritchie and was hoping for either Ehlers or Nylander.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: sneakyray on November 08, 2016, 12:41:55 PM
I watched that 1st round not too many months ago and the thing that stood out to me was that bobby mac said the leafs were high on larkin as well at #8. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on November 08, 2016, 12:50:30 PM
I remember Ritchie being mentioned alot before the draft, Don Cherry piping in and saying the Leafs should take Ritchie and when they went with Nylander fans were pleasantly surprised the Leafs chose based on pure skill.  Dave Nonis's greatest day in retrospect.  ;)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on November 08, 2016, 02:06:15 PM
Dave Nonis's greatest day in retrospect.  ;)

That was the moment it was clear to me that things would be different under Shanahan. If he wasn't brought in as president, I'm not convinced the Leafs would have drafted Nylander.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 08, 2016, 02:17:20 PM
That was the moment it was clear to me that things would be different under Shanahan. If he wasn't brought in as president, I'm not convinced the Leafs would have drafted Nylander.

Especially since it seems like Shanahan's personal insight may have erased some or all of the criticisms that some scouts had about Nylander's character.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on November 08, 2016, 02:21:29 PM
That was the moment it was clear to me that things would be different under Shanahan. If he wasn't brought in as president, I'm not convinced the Leafs would have drafted Nylander.

Especially since it seems like Shanahan's personal insight may have erased some or all of the criticisms that some scouts had about Nylander's character.

For those that were interested:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/maple-leafs-president-no-mere-figurehead/article19387163/

Quote
Shanahan intends to provide as much help as possible to Nonis and Co., even on days like the draft when, he admitted, many of the kids chosen had already finished their seasons by the time he took the Leafs top job this spring.

Nevertheless, he became particularly useful given slick Swedish forward William Nylander was one of the scouting staff’s top targets at eighth overall.

Shanahan and Nylander père played the 2006-07 season together on the New York Rangers, are of a similar age and get along very well, meaning the Leafs had some unique insight into their potential pick’s background and upbringing.

By the time the draft weekend came around, Shanahan felt he had such a good grasp on William Nylander’s personality and promise that he found the fact some were questioning his character in the lead-up to Friday humorous.

More importantly, those scouting reports were potentially beneficial to the Leafs, who wanted him to slip to their pick.

“I knew it wasn’t true,” Shanahan said. “I did a lot of homework on him.

“I called players that I played with in Detroit that had played with William over in Sweden. … To be honest with you, I did it a while ago.

“Everybody I talked to, people whose opinions I really respect, guys who are in dressing rooms, couldn’t say enough about the kid.”

Nonis, who was placed in the uncomfortable position of having a new boss looking over his shoulder back in April, admitted he was glad to have the added intel.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on November 16, 2016, 11:47:57 AM
Willy's (Medium Chewie) goal from last night: https://streamable.com/h7wg

Even though he hadn't been scoring up to this point, in the past 2-ish games, Nylander has been playing more assertively than I can recall. He's slight to the eye, but really holds his skates well and is putting in hard work on the boards.

This goal shows some of that strength and the uncanny net-sense snipers (like Matthews) have. Smith providing a nice screen to go with Matthews drawing attention out front.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on November 23, 2016, 11:41:24 AM
Some hot doggin' idiots caused a bit of a kerfuffle in the Toronto sports media scene. I was going to track down some Twitter tirades about it, but decided to wait it out because others are paid to do this.

http://theleafsnation.com/2016/11/23/william-nylander-and-the-beautiful-game

Quote
Yesterday morning, Dave Feschuk and Steve Simmons met on the radio to talk hockey, and the subject of William Nylander came up. Their take below thanks to the transcribing of Platinum Seat Ghosts:

Quote
Simmons: "on the nights where William Nylander has tried hard, I've been impressed"

Feschuk: "well that's not often"

— Platinum Seat Ghosts (@3rdPeriodSuits) November 22, 2016

There are a lot of reasons why this is ridiculous. He's just a rookie, he's been really good already, his usage hasn't been ideal, it's ignorant and toxic.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on November 23, 2016, 03:35:00 PM
Feschuk and Simmons having a discussion of any kind might be the least intelligent and least informed conversation ever.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bill_Berg on November 23, 2016, 03:42:40 PM
I stopped paying attention at Simmo-
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: McGarnagle on November 23, 2016, 06:34:09 PM
Well, in Simmons defence in the quote, I've been pretty impressed on the nights when Nylander has tried hard too. There's been a lot of them.

Not sure what the discussion de-evolved to, but I was listening to the 1050 on the way home where the panel was discussing how Toronto media wanted constant interviews with Andersen when he started so poorly, and now that he's playing well, they don't have any interest. Now its all about Matthews slumping. They'd rather report on controversy than actual hockey.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on November 23, 2016, 07:51:49 PM
What we find in life is that people love to project the negative as it is the reality of the future. This is what our minds do, but this fact is the true illusion of life.  Today in my own business life with some big problems I find my mind is projecting a lot of negative S__t and its easy to get caught up in this projected reality.  The fact of the matter is most things work out completley differently than we project, in case most things turn out completely differently than fear based projections. 
I have seemed to find my inner Zen.
Sorry if it doesn't make sense. But in the case of Simmons I am not sorry.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on November 27, 2016, 11:53:45 AM
Any news on Nylander or has Lou brought in the Cone of Silence?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 27, 2016, 05:44:18 PM
They should trade Nylander for help on defense articles/sports radio segments coming at you in 3...2...1......
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: freer on November 27, 2016, 09:43:32 PM
They should trade Nylander for help on defense articles/sports radio segments coming at you in 3...2...1......

Well that would be the stupid thing I ever heard.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: princedpw on November 27, 2016, 11:40:35 PM
They should trade Nylander for help on defense articles/sports radio segments coming at you in 3...2...1......

Well that would be the stupid thing I ever heard.

Why?  If they could get a defenseman of comparable value, it might improve the team,no?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: freer on November 28, 2016, 12:15:56 AM
They should trade Nylander for help on defense articles/sports radio segments coming at you in 3...2...1......

Well that would be the stupid thing I ever heard.

Why?  If they could get a defenseman of comparable value, it might improve the team,no?

Please name a defence men at the same age Nylander, that is anywhere as good.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 28, 2016, 06:58:28 AM
Please name a defence men at the same age Nylander, that is anywhere as good.

Aaron Ekblad. What do I win?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: RedLeaf on November 28, 2016, 07:52:18 AM
Please name a defence men at the same age Nylander, that is anywhere as good.

Aaron Ekblad. What do I win?

The opportunity to debate what the odds are of that trade ever happening?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 28, 2016, 08:12:10 AM
The opportunity to debate what the odds are of that trade ever happening?

If someone were to say that, that the premise for trading Nylander for defensive help is stupid because they're unlikely to get Aaron Ekblad for him I think I'd be more inclined to question why the deal could only be a worthwhile one if the Leafs were getting someone the exact same age as Nylander. I don't think old men of 22 like Seth Jones, Jacob Trouba, Hampus Lindholm or Rasmus Ristolainen would be bad options, even crazy ones depending on how things might shake out with their respective clubs.

If someone is going to say exploring a trade of Nylander for a defenseman is a stupid idea and then say it's stupid because there aren't any great 20 year old defensemen besides Ekblad it would seem to me that the problem is more with the conditions they've set than the argument being made.

Good thing this is all hypothetical though.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on November 28, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
No actual word on Nylander's injury at the moment.

Judging by how the Leafs handled Soshnikov's injury, this could be another Sports Science Prehab situation.

Quote
“He had an imbalance between his quad strength and his hamstring strength, so what we have done is we have basically shut him down to get his hamstring strong enough so he is not getting hurt all the time,” Head Coach, Mike Babcock said.

Nylander was shut down and Babcock didn't know about it until game time. I would be be surprised if this is similar to what Leivo is working on as well.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on November 28, 2016, 03:49:19 PM
Babcock confirms that Willy is free to play Tuesday.

Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Heroic Shrimp on November 28, 2016, 08:46:50 PM
Babcock confirms that Willy is free to play Tuesday.

(http://www.asset1.net/tv/pictures/movie/free-willy-1993/freewilly-KA-1.jpg)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on November 30, 2016, 12:46:15 PM
Babcock confirms that Willy is free to play Tuesday.

(http://www.asset1.net/tv/pictures/movie/free-willy-1993/freewilly-KA-1.jpg)

My diction was intentional  8)


http://theleafsnation.com/2016/11/29/william-nylander-has-become-the-scapegoat-and-that-s-sadly-unsurprising

Quote
We knew the honeymoon wasn't going to last forever, but at the same time, not even the biggest pessimist would've expected things to begin to fall apart so quickly. It seems like every ambitious rebuild of any big-market sports team needs a fall person, a scapegoat, and while there was some hesitance to pick one out of a group of rookies and main-stayers, it appears one has been found by the greater populace.

To the shock of very few, I'm sure, that scapegoat is 20-year-old William Nylander. It was predictable as hell, but that doesn't make it make it any less frustrating.

Jeff Veillette aggregates some of MSM's poop-toss quotes for you to make fun of.

Love for Dubas rising (even further)...
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on November 30, 2016, 12:47:52 PM

And keep in mind that some of those newspaper columnists are reaching literally tens of readers.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on November 30, 2016, 12:57:30 PM
A 20 year old rookie has been inconsistent? Oh my stars! He must have attitude problems!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 30, 2016, 01:03:08 PM
Really.  The idea that Nylander should be a trading chip is absurd unless you are getting back his equivalent on defense.  And even then I'd be hesitant to make a deal at this point in his career.  Last spring when he was our newest, shiniest thing I didn't hear any talk like this.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 30, 2016, 01:03:21 PM
They should trade Nylander for help on defense articles/sports radio segments coming at you in 3...2...1......

 ::)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on November 30, 2016, 01:24:50 PM
Babcock came right out up front about it prior to the Oiler game too. Nylander wasn't being sent any messages: medical staff prevented him from playing, he's suiting up on the 4th line to force the Oilers to pick their poison.

I think Jeff pretty much nails the reason Nylander gets singled out a bit: quiet outsider with name recognition. Also, so dang good it looks like he's not trying.

I also think Nylander, like Kadri, plays better with a burr in his saddle and his feet to the imaginary fire of media ire. MSM can say what they want. I will enjoy the show Nylander puts on.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: freer on November 30, 2016, 11:09:23 PM
He worked his way back up where he should be.

People read to much into him missing the game on Saturday
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on December 01, 2016, 10:20:40 AM
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/12/1/13786304/is-william-nylander-lazy-and-inconsistent

No.

But really good breakdown showing how Nylander operates, and where he can improve.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on December 01, 2016, 11:56:41 AM
http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/12/1/13786304/is-william-nylander-lazy-and-inconsistent

No.

But really good breakdown showing how Nylander operates, and where he can improve.

That is a really good breakdown.

I'm sure the usual lazy narrative crowd wouldn't have the collective brainpower to make it through the article.

This is the kind of thing the national broadcasters should be doing, instead the sell easy narratives and fill time with hot air.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on December 01, 2016, 12:49:17 PM
That is a really good breakdown.

I'm sure the usual lazy narrative crowd wouldn't have the collective brainpower to make it through the article.

This is the kind of thing the national broadcasters should be doing, instead the sell easy narratives and fill time with hot air.

I get where you're going with this and I'm all on board!. I don't think the current crop of broadcasters (for the most part) are up to the task, however. Mike Johnson, Marty Biron are quite good though... The media covering this sport is as entrenched as the old school of hockey in management/coaching. Note which side of hockey MSM/blogosphere had what to say about Florida's firing of Gallant.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on December 01, 2016, 11:42:06 PM
That is a really good breakdown.

I'm sure the usual lazy narrative crowd wouldn't have the collective brainpower to make it through the article.

This is the kind of thing the national broadcasters should be doing, instead the sell easy narratives and fill time with hot air.

I get where you're going with this and I'm all on board!. I don't think the current crop of broadcasters (for the most part) are up to the task, however. Mike Johnson, Marty Biron are quite good though... The media covering this sport is as entrenched as the old school of hockey in management/coaching. Note which side of hockey MSM/blogosphere had what to say about Florida's firing of Gallant.

TV guys don't have time to go into the kind of detail that was in that article.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on December 02, 2016, 09:22:09 AM
TV guys don't have time to go into the kind of detail that was in that article.

I think TV guys should make the time to go into that kind of detail, maybe for single events, or multiple examples of the same type of play/player skill, rather than some of the drivel they are currently clogging the airwaves with.

Something like Mike Johnson's breakdown of Matthews' 4-goal debut is not beyond their grasp: https://vimeo.com/187134719
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 03, 2017, 09:46:36 AM
Someone asked Babcock at yesterday's morning scrum (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhkhikCpirs):
Quote
At one point, this organization spoke about Marner and Nylander as potential centres. Do you see them as potential centres?

Babcock: I see Willy as a centre, for sure. [Marner], no.

Obviously, TSN would do this:
http://www.tsn.ca/video/button-william-nylander-will-not-be-a-long-term-maple-leaf~1049262

Per Button, he thinks Nylander will be gone in 12 months because he is the best chip we have to securing strength in another area (e.g. Trouba). The additional argument is, do the Leafs want Nylander whiling away on the 3rd line, especially when we've got Adam Brooks about a year or two away?

---

A) Button, for all his bombast, is pretty smart and actually, in my opinion, has a decent eye. He is also pretty calculating about what he says, demonstrating excellent fluency in clickbait.

B) They're not wrong in wanting to leverage Nylander with higher minutes (ostensibly as a scoring winger because it's easier, Jeff O'Neill projecting heavily here); especially with Adam Brooks making a case. 

Personally, I see Nylander as a short-term JvR replacement, and Swiss Army option for Babcock whenever injuries strike. He plays all three forward positions, will always be dangerous on the power play, and even though he looks nonchalant, Nylander is actually pretty effective defensively. He'll probably play the gap year as 3C when Bozak is gone but Brooks (or whoever) isn't up yet, but then revert to scoring winger for his default until Kadri falters.

Babcock also rolls his top 3 lines pretty equally, no where near what other teams run their top lines at (Matthews is 1st line at 17ish minutes), so 3rd line minutes are really 2nd line minutes in our system.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 03, 2017, 10:08:56 AM
TSN's been trying to trade Nylander all season long. They talk about it literally every single week in some form.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 03, 2017, 10:22:29 AM

I think I'm going to need to see a lot more from an overage 4th round pick before I start talking about him as a sure thing we just need to wait on.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on February 03, 2017, 10:30:49 AM
There's a reason Craig Button is no longer a GM in the league, and his Nylander argument just underscored that reason.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 03, 2017, 10:31:40 AM

I think I'm going to need to see a lot more from an overage 4th round pick before I start talking about him as a sure thing we just need to wait on.

Brooks is legitimately too good for the WHL.
Funny thing, he is behind his teammate Sam Steel, who was picked 30th overall this summer by the Ducks with our pick for Andersen.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 03, 2017, 10:32:35 AM
As Carlton pointed out, TSN has been trading Nylander all season long.  It's getting ridiculous.

I don't agree with Jeff O'Niell.  Just because wing is "easier" doesn't mean Nylander won't excel at Center once he gains more experience and strength, especially in a 2a/2b scenario with Kadri getting the tougher matchup/defensive zone starts. 

Adam Brooks is highly skilled and looks promising, but I'm not ready to say he's going to be an NHL player.  Yes he's scoring at a very high rate- but as an overager on a stacked team.  It will be interesting to see what he can do in the AHL next year.  Should he make the NHL in a couple of years, having Willie be a swiss army knife is a great thing to have.

That said, I'm not totally against trading Nylander.  The return would just have to be very good.

Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 03, 2017, 10:33:43 AM
Brooks is legitimately too good for the WHL.

So are a lot of 20 year olds.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on February 03, 2017, 10:34:57 AM

I think I'm going to need to see a lot more from an overage 4th round pick before I start talking about him as a sure thing we just need to wait on.

Brooks is legitimately too good for the WHL.
Funny thing, he is behind his teammate Sam Steel, who was picked 30th overall this summer by the Ducks with our pick for Andersen.

I sure hope Brooks works out, but like Nik said, I'm not holding out hope that he's some coming star.    You mentioned Steel who is ahead of him, Steel turns 19 today, Brooks is turning 21 in May. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 03, 2017, 10:35:09 AM

I think I'm going to need to see a lot more from an overage 4th round pick before I start talking about him as a sure thing we just need to wait on.

Brooks is legitimately too good for the WHL.
Funny thing, he is behind his teammate Sam Steel, who was picked 30th overall this summer by the Ducks with our pick for Andersen.

There have been many 19 year old / Overage players that have looked too good for the CHL.  That doesn't mean they are going to be NHL players.  Lets see what he can do against men, not boys, in the AHL next year.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 03, 2017, 11:30:59 AM
I'm curious about this assertion, but I'm not currently in position to look it up at the moment. Can anyone link a chart or something?

Brooks led the WHL in scoring last season at 19 too.

Brooks is legitimately too good for the WHL.

So are a lot of 20 year olds.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on February 03, 2017, 11:49:16 AM
Why don't we start a Brooks thread? Already wanting to jettison Nylander is crazy. He is still a boy-man. Wait till the frame fills out with 20lbs of lean muscle and he builds his game.  I think he is going to be scary good in about 3-4 years.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 03, 2017, 11:58:41 AM
I'm curious about this assertion, but I'm not currently in position to look it up at the moment. Can anyone link a chart or something?

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/player-age/20-year-old-nhl-players.html (http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/player-age/20-year-old-nhl-players.html)

And last year, was Brooks' Draft +2 year. He turned 20.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 03, 2017, 12:02:16 PM
Why don't we start a Brooks thread? Already wanting to jettison Nylander is crazy. He is still a boy-man. Wait till the frame fills out with 20lbs of lean muscle and he builds his game.  I think he is going to be scary good in about 3-4 years.

Your frankly unsettling interest in his physique aside, there's a legitimate chance Nylander remains a fairly slight player. The Leafs and the NHL have him listed at 190. It's not a certainty, or even a likelihood, that he puts on 20 pounds.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 03, 2017, 12:04:38 PM
I'm curious about this assertion, but I'm not currently in position to look it up at the moment. Can anyone link a chart or something?

http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/player-age/20-year-old-nhl-players.html (http://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/player-age/20-year-old-nhl-players.html)

And last year, was Brooks' Draft +2 year. He turned 20.

Cool, thanks!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 03, 2017, 12:06:05 PM
Why don't we start a Brooks thread? Already wanting to jettison Nylander is crazy. He is still a boy-man. Wait till the frame fills out with 20lbs of lean muscle and he builds his game.  I think he is going to be scary good in about 3-4 years.

Your frankly unsettling interest in his physique aside, there's a legitimate chance Nylander remains a fairly slight player. The Leafs and the NHL have him listed at 190. It's not a certainty, or even a likelihood, that he puts on 20 pounds.

And his combine weight was 169, so he's already gained his 20 pounds.

Nylander's physique also just shouldn't worry anyone. He's built a lot like Martin St. Louis was. His thighs are like tree trunks.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Britishbulldog on February 03, 2017, 12:47:21 PM
I was hoping after this season and next season that October 2018 would see Nylander filling Bozak's spot at center with Marner on his right wing and someone not named E Kane would be on his left wing. 

I have no desire to trade him or make any huge moves at this point in the rebuild.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 03, 2017, 01:27:27 PM
I'm curious about this assertion, but I'm not currently in position to look it up at the moment. Can anyone link a chart or something?

Brooks led the WHL in scoring last season at 19 too.

Brooks is legitimately too good for the WHL.

So are a lot of 20 year olds.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Clarke_Trophy

11 of the 15 Players who led the WHL in scoring between 99-00 and 13-14 did not make the NHL (more than 40 games).  Note, Brendan Leipsic may reduce that number to 10. 

Players who led the WHL in scoring that also had NHL careers:

Linden Vey
Troy Brouwer
Eric Fehr
Erik Christensen

(Edited to fix my counting error and add the list of players who DID make the NHL)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 03, 2017, 02:08:50 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Clarke_Trophy

11 of the 15 Players who led the WHL in scoring between 99-00 and 13-14 did not make the NHL (more than 40 games).  Note, Brendan Leipsic may reduce that number to 10. 

Players who led the WHL in scoring that also had NHL careers:

Linden Vey
Troy Brouwer
Eric Fehr
Erik Christensen

(Edited to fix my counting error and add the list of players who DID make the NHL)

Ooh, nice.

I'll roll back my excitement a tad and wait to see him on the Marlies.

In terms of junior overage dominance, is age the huge advantage driver, or is it size? Because Brooks is teenager sized even now and his emergence looks to be more a factor of deployment + size bias.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on February 03, 2017, 02:34:55 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Clarke_Trophy

11 of the 15 Players who led the WHL in scoring between 99-00 and 13-14 did not make the NHL (more than 40 games).  Note, Brendan Leipsic may reduce that number to 10. 

Players who led the WHL in scoring that also had NHL careers:

Linden Vey
Troy Brouwer
Eric Fehr
Erik Christensen

(Edited to fix my counting error and add the list of players who DID make the NHL)

Ooh, nice.

I'll roll back my excitement a tad and wait to see him on the Marlies.

In terms of junior overage dominance, is age the huge advantage driver, or is it size? Because Brooks is teenager sized even now and his emergence looks to be more a factor of deployment + size bias.

You may be picking the flyshit out of pepper here...that's a pretty discouraging trend there, because I too was hoping that Brooks was legit bank.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 03, 2017, 03:28:17 PM
You may be picking the flyshit out of pepper here...that's a pretty discouraging trend there, because I too was hoping that Brooks was legit bank.

That's a new phrase to me.

I still feel pretty safe banking on Brooks due to the way he was deployed on a stacked team and overlooked and underrated (size, age). He plays the way I see the Leafs trending.

The way I see it, we got a prospect with two free years of additional development at a crap-shoot pick slot, and his growth trend has been exponential. Compared to our 2014 picks where he would have normally been picked, his development is more than satisfactory. Of the players from that draft held back in junior, which ones have done better than he did last year as a 19 year old?

http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2016/8/3/12334780/top-25-under-25-the-case-for-adam-brooks
Quote
[Let's] look at forwards from the Canadian Hockey Leagues (OHL, WHL, and QMJHL.)  Take the forwards drafted in the first and second rounds those years.  Excluding those who went to the AHL/NHL, Brooks is 3rd in points per game of nine, ranking ahead of higher profile players like Josh Ho-Sang and John Quenneville.  In even-strength points per game, Brooks was 8th among 2014 draft-eligible players this year.  Even with league adjustments, that's impressive as hell.

And by the way, the player who's ranked 9th?  Christian Dvorak, whom Bleacher Report just ranked the 33rd-best hockey prospect in the world. Brooks is damn good right now.  The fact that his growth started later shouldn't detract from the fact that it's now caught up with--and may even have zoomed ahead of--his peers.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 03, 2017, 03:42:31 PM
I think that a common Brooks comparison when he was drafted was Connor Brown. And I basically view Brooks with the same optimistic caution that I did with Brown during his junior career. I was happy with his results, but they didn't really mean much to me until he produced in the AHL.

It's worth pointing out too that Brown's 18 and 19 year junior season are actually a tad better statistically than Brooks' were. As 18-year olds it was 1.09 vs. 0.97 and as 19-year olds it was 1.88 vs. 1.67. As a 20-year old Brown led his AHL team in scoring while Brooks is running hog-wild in the WHL. Admittedly the comparison is a little tricky as Brown had McDavid with him as a 19-year old, but Brooks' 20-year old season has him on an absolutely dominant offensive team that actually sees him trailing Sam Steel by a few points.

But I think it's fair to say that if you compare their developments Brown has always either been slightly ahead of Brooks or roughly on par. If that holds, we should get a pretty effective middle-6 forward type player out of Adam Brooks. But Brown's biggest test came in his first AHL season, Brooks hasn't gotten that far yet. But if he does pass that like Brown did then we should get a pretty effective middle-6 type forward out of him. As far as 4th round picks go that's pretty good. But it's not really the type of player that makes a William Nylander expendable.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: dekedastardly on February 03, 2017, 03:49:53 PM
I remember a time not all that long ago when this team didn't have ANY skilled players like him in their system. I like Willie the Kid. Wicked shot, slick passer, deadly on the PP. Alex Steen was given up on far too soon. I think Nylander will be dynamite in a year or two.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 03, 2017, 03:55:17 PM
I think that a common Brooks comparison when he was drafted was Connor Brown. And I basically view Brooks with the same optimistic caution that I did with Brown during his junior career. I was happy with his results, but they didn't really mean much to me until he produced in the AHL.

It's worth pointing out too that Brown's 18 and 19 year junior season are actually a tad better statistically than Brooks' were. As 18-year olds it was 1.09 vs. 0.97 and as 19-year olds it was 1.88 vs. 1.67. As a 20-year old Brown led his AHL team in scoring while Brooks is running hog-wild in the WHL. Admittedly the comparison is a little tricky as Brown had McDavid with him as a 19-year old, but Brooks' 20-year old season has him on an absolutely dominant offensive team that actually sees him trailing Sam Steel by a few points.

But I think it's fair to say that if you compare their developments Brown has always either been slightly ahead of Brooks or roughly on par. If that holds, we should get a pretty effective middle-6 forward type player out of Adam Brooks. But Brown's biggest test came in his first AHL season, Brooks hasn't gotten that far yet. But if he does pass that like Brown did then we should get a pretty effective middle-6 type forward out of him. As far as 4th round picks go that's pretty good. But it's not really the type of player that makes a William Nylander expendable.

Yup.

I'd throw down some additional caveats too:
Brooks plays centre vs Brown on the wing so there is a bit of a responsibility/difficulty difference
Brooks plays in the WHL vs Brown in the OHL, where scoring is slightly crazier (not QMJHL crazy, but still)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 03, 2017, 03:56:45 PM
I'd throw down some additional caveats too:
Brooks plays centre vs Brown on the wing (of McDavid for a little while)

This is true although I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see him switch to the wing in the NHL. Just a feeling.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 03, 2017, 04:01:40 PM
I'd throw down some additional caveats too:
Brooks plays centre vs Brown on the wing (of McDavid for a little while)

This is true although I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see him switch to the wing in the NHL. Just a feeling.

Assuming we don't dissolve our NHL centre depth (by TSNing Nylander), I think it'll start that way but shift back.

Brooks is more of a playmaker, with good defensive positioning, which makes more sense down the middle. There he can play the high trailer, so his straightaway speed deficiency is not as much a liability.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 03, 2017, 07:05:18 PM

But I think it's fair to say that if you compare their developments Brown has always either been slightly ahead of Brooks or roughly on par. If that holds, we should get a pretty effective middle-6 forward type player out of Adam Brooks. But Brown's biggest test came in his first AHL season, Brooks hasn't gotten that far yet. But if he does pass that like Brown did then we should get a pretty effective middle-6 type forward out of him. As far as 4th round picks go that's pretty good. But it's not really the type of player that makes a William Nylander expendable.

I suppose I struggle to see the advantage in thinking any prospect is a sure thing before they establish themselves, let alone someone with Brooks' odds.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on February 04, 2017, 11:01:44 AM
Why don't we start a Brooks thread? Already wanting to jettison Nylander is crazy. He is still a boy-man. Wait till the frame fills out with 20lbs of lean muscle and he builds his game.  I think he is going to be scary good in about 3-4 years.

Your frankly unsettling interest in his physique aside, there's a legitimate chance Nylander remains a fairly slight player. The Leafs and the NHL have him listed at 190. It's not a certainty, or even a likelihood, that he puts on 20 pounds.
No worries Nik, I am a raging hetrosexual 8)  just saying that boys of 20 are different then men of 24
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 04, 2017, 11:38:50 AM
just saying that boys of 20 are different then men of 24

Yes, but you're also saying that Nylander will add 20 pounds. While it's not uncommon for a player to add 15-20 pounds after they're drafted as has been pointed out, Nylander has already either done most of that or all of that. Adding 30-40 pounds post draft is pretty uncommon, especially for a player who isn't 6'3 or so.

It is pretty unlikely that Nylander ever plays at 210 pounds.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on February 04, 2017, 07:25:44 PM
Thanks Nik, I guess you are good to go as the weight guesser at next years Ex.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 04, 2017, 10:17:30 PM
Dude played at 250 tonight.


I'm not sure what that means.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: sickbeast on February 04, 2017, 10:41:31 PM
Hopefully Nylander's performance tonight will shut up the haters for a bit.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Arn on February 05, 2017, 08:19:46 AM
Hopefully Nylander's performance tonight will shut up the haters for a bit.

Or raise his trade value
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 06, 2017, 10:39:01 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMpLDdE7UlQ[/youtube]

He has a remarkably consistent celebration.

Not all heroes wear capes (and they really shouldn't).
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/mckenzie-doesn-t-think-nylander-is-on-the-trade-block~1049952

Bob McKenzie makes all the sense in the world.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 06, 2017, 01:18:43 PM
What is telling is that McKenzie, like some other knowledgeable analysts, immediately draws a comparison to the Hawks.  Matthews is Toews, Marner Kane, and Nylander Hossa.  Why not be like Chicago?  I agree with him, those 3 are the core.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 06, 2017, 01:57:38 PM
What is telling is that McKenzie, like some other knowledgeable analysts, immediately draws a comparison to the Hawks.  Matthews is Toews, Marner Kane, and Nylander Hossa.  Why not be like Chicago?  I agree with him, those 3 are the core.

I think the comparison to the Hawks is exciting for Leafs fans, in that they are a 3x Stanley Cup champion and pretty much as close to a dynasty as we'll ever see in the new NHL.  However, on a player level only the Marner-Kane comparison is close IMO (Marner already being better defensively though).

If Matthews becomes Toews it will be disappointing.  He's only topped 30 goals twice in his career.  Matthews *should* be 40+ per year.  On the defensive side of the puck, I'm not sure I'd compare them in style either.  Toews plays bigger than he is physically.  Matthews is less physical, but is Datsyuk-like in coming out of battles with the puck.  Matthews may change his game a bit physically as time goes on though. 

The Hossa-Nylander comparison is not one I'd make.  Nylander, while very good already, is a different player than Hossa.  Not saying he can't become more like him, but I wouldn't bet on it.  Hossa was always incredibly strong on the puck and played North-South much more.  Nylander is more sneaky when it comes to stealing the puck- less physical, but Hossa is one of the best ever two-way wingers IMO.  Plus, I do think Nylander plays center long term.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Crucialness Key on February 06, 2017, 02:27:58 PM
I look forward to the day when other teams are like "our rookies could be the next Matthews-Marner-Nylander!"   :)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 06, 2017, 02:39:16 PM
What is telling is that McKenzie, like some other knowledgeable analysts, immediately draws a comparison to the Hawks.  Matthews is Toews, Marner Kane, and Nylander Hossa.  Why not be like Chicago?  I agree with him, those 3 are the core.

I think the comparison to the Hawks is exciting for Leafs fans, in that they are a 3x Stanley Cup champion and pretty much as close to a dynasty as we'll ever see in the new NHL.  However, on a player level only the Marner-Kane comparison is close IMO (Marner already being better defensively though).

If Matthews becomes Toews it will be disappointing.  He's only topped 30 goals twice in his career.  Matthews *should* be 40+ per year.  On the defensive side of the puck, I'm not sure I'd compare them in style either.  Toews plays bigger than he is physically.  Matthews is less physical, but is Datsyuk-like in coming out of battles with the puck.  Matthews may change his game a bit physically as time goes on though. 

The Hossa-Nylander comparison is not one I'd make.  Nylander, while very good already, is a different player than Hossa.  Not saying he can't become more like him, but I wouldn't bet on it.  Hossa was always incredibly strong on the puck and played North-South much more.  Nylander is more sneaky when it comes to stealing the puck- less physical, but Hossa is one of the best ever two-way wingers IMO.  Plus, I do think Nylander plays center long term.

Good observations, all.  & perhaps McKenzie would agree -- he may have been drawing a more general comparison, i.e. Toews & Matthews as 2-way leaders, Marner & Kane as scorers, Hossa & Nylander as secondary scorers (or what you will).

But I think you are quite correct in your 1-1 comps.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2017, 08:31:34 AM
After EVEN MORE talk about trading Nylander from TSN the past couple of days, Chris Johnson just comes in and dunks all over them:

Quote
It makes the nagging speculation about Nylander’s supposed availability on the trade market seem completely asinine.

You lose for years on end to assemble a crop of players like this. To then give up a cost-controlled 20-year-old winger who puts up points and drives possession immediately afterwards?

Either you’re getting a sure thing in return or you should be committed.

Rest assured, Leafs fans, there is no reason to doubt the sanity of Brendan Shanahan, Lou Lamoriello and the other men pulling the levers in the executive suite.

Nylander isn’t going anywhere. Not before March 1. Not for a lot longer than that, barring some unforeseeable change of events.

We’re talking about a guy who lead the American Hockey League in scoring as a teenager and is currently on pace for a 56-point rookie NHL season. That’s something just 15 others have managed in the last decade!

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/rest-assured-maple-leafs-fans-william-nylander-isnt-going-anywhere/
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2017, 08:39:37 AM
For some context, yesterday Dreger brought up Nylander's name when it came to trading for 22-year old (soon to be 23-year old) defenceman Brandon Montour out of Anaheim.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Coco-puffs on February 10, 2017, 08:46:15 AM
For some context, yesterday Dreger brought up Nylander's name when it came to trading for 22-year old (soon to be 23-year old) defenceman Brandon Montour out of Anaheim.

Yeah I don't get it.  Its one thing when Leafs Lunch postulates trading him away to improve the defense- they are trying to generate discussion and get clicks from TSN.ca.  Its another when an "insider" postulates an even more lopsided trade than Hall-Larsson.

Furthermore, Anaheim is going to lose one of their NHL defensemen due to the expansion draft.  Not sure if it will be in the draft itself, or in a trade to recoup some assets.  It doesn't make any sense at all to trade an exempt player (from the exp. draft) that seems ready to step in and replace whomever they lose.

Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2017, 08:58:28 AM
Furthermore, Anaheim is going to lose one of their NHL defensemen due to the expansion draft.  Not sure if it will be in the draft itself, or in a trade to recoup some assets.  It doesn't make any sense at all to trade an exempt player (from the exp. draft) that seems ready to step in and replace whomever they lose.

Yeah, I don't quite understand why there's any talk of him or Theodore being moved. At least at this point.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on February 10, 2017, 09:01:25 AM
For some context, yesterday Dreger brought up Nylander's name when it came to trading for 22-year old (soon to be 23-year old) defenceman Brandon Montour out of Anaheim.

Now that Nonis is out of the picture, Dreger's back to being a garbage slinger.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 10, 2017, 09:04:05 AM
For some context, yesterday Dreger brought up Nylander's name when it came to trading for 22-year old (soon to be 23-year old) defenceman Brandon Montour out of Anaheim.

Now that Nonis is out of the picture, Dreger's back to being a garbage slinger.

By "out of the picture" you mean "employed by the team that Dreger is suggesting Nylander be traded to"?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on February 10, 2017, 09:04:38 AM
For some context, yesterday Dreger brought up Nylander's name when it came to trading for 22-year old (soon to be 23-year old) defenceman Brandon Montour out of Anaheim.

Now that Nonis is out of the picture, Dreger's back to being a garbage slinger.

It's funny, Dreger actually made mention of the Nonis thing on the radio once.  Said something to the effect that he used to get twitter comments from people that didn't like him mentioning Nonis and his rumors.  He said he likes to block people like that, but it's funny that he's aware of the "Dreger's only source is Nonis" talk.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: sneakyray on February 10, 2017, 09:49:13 AM
Headline story today on sportsnet by Chris Johnston:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/rest-assured-maple-leafs-fans-william-nylander-isnt-going-anywhere/

I must say I am getting tired of the tsn guys literally just making stuff up.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 10, 2017, 10:25:48 AM
Yes, TSN's Nylander thing is tiresome, but it's just speculation drawing the straight line from perceived cost for premium defense (thanks, Chiarelli) to what the Leafs have in their asset pool, not an Insider report. Nylander is an easy target similar to the way Kessel was in that the media doesn't have much of a relationship with him vs Matthews, Marner, Martin, Bozak, Kadri, JvR, Rielly, Gardiner, Carrick.

Bless Chris Johnston for dousing that silly line of thought with ice cold logic. Would love to see a Sportsnet v TSN throwdown, West Side Story/Romeo and Juliet style. McCormick and Hedger can be Tony/Romeo and Maria/Juliet.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 10, 2017, 10:52:03 AM

The thing that's so frustrating about it is that I actually think Johnston's wrong, or at least he's fighting a stupid fight. The people advocating trading Nylander think they're getting equal value back so the "He's good, why would they trade him" is actually kind of dumb.

The problem is the people who are talking about trading Nylander are looking around and seeing a world that just doesn't exist. They're the Duke brothers' stooge in the pit at the end of Trading Places screaming "SELL SELL SELL" while everyone else is buying.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: dekedastardly on February 10, 2017, 11:03:31 AM
Maybe for Fowler, but not Montour
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bullfrog on February 10, 2017, 11:13:50 AM

The thing that's so frustrating about it is that I actually think Johnston's wrong, or at least he's fighting a stupid fight. The people advocating trading Nylander think they're getting equal value back so the "He's good, why would they trade him" is actually kind of dumb.

The problem is the people who are talking about trading Nylander are looking around and seeing a world that just doesn't exist. They're the Duke brothers' stooge in the pit at the end of Trading Places screaming "SELL SELL SELL" while everyone else is buying.

I agree with you. The point of picking the best player available and stock-piling young talent is so you can have the most leverage in trades. If they think they're at a point where they need to start shaping the roster by position (and I don't think they're there yet) then an equal value trade is fine.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: sneakyray on February 10, 2017, 11:17:39 AM
the thing with Nylander is that he is going to be a centre.  So you have a 20 year old with the potential to be a 30+ goal centre within the next couple of years...certainly by the time he is 25(barring injury).  So basically you have matt duchene at 20 that people want to trade for what?  a top 4 d who has the potential to be a #1?  and because its the logical thing.

weird
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 10, 2017, 11:20:55 AM
the thing with Nylander is that he is going to be a centre.  So you have a 20 year old with the potential to be a 30+ goal centre within the next couple of years...certainly by the time he is 25(barring injury).  So basically you have matt duchene at 20 that people want to trade for what?  a top 4 d who has the potential to be a #1?  and because its the logical thing.

weird

Maybe, but look at Colorado with Duchene(55 rookie points), Mackinnon(63) and Landeskog(52). As far as comparisons go, that might be one I'd avoid.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on February 10, 2017, 11:30:13 AM
I feel like I'm sitting in a boring board meeting where someone throws an idea out there to help solve a problem, and the people that shoot it down don't have a suggestion on how to deal with the problem.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: sneakyray on February 10, 2017, 11:30:27 AM
the thing with Nylander is that he is going to be a centre.  So you have a 20 year old with the potential to be a 30+ goal centre within the next couple of years...certainly by the time he is 25(barring injury).  So basically you have matt duchene at 20 that people want to trade for what?  a top 4 d who has the potential to be a #1?  and because its the logical thing.

weird

Maybe, but look at Colorado with Duchene(55 rookie points), Mackinnon(63) and Landeskog(52). As far as comparisons go, that might be one I'd avoid.

my point is that you don't trade duchene at 20 (and nylander) for anybody because hes going to be a really good player in 1-3 years...hell nylander is already really good at 20.

I mean, if the leafs play their cards right nylander could be a point per game guy as a centre could he not?  I mean, its not guaranteed or anything but its not unreasonable or unrealistic expectations...sheltered minutes, PP time, with a guy like JVR on his wing.  I think nylander is going to be very good by the time he is 22 or 23.

 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 10, 2017, 11:35:20 AM
I feel like I'm sitting in a boring board meeting where someone throws an idea out there to help solve a problem, and the people that shoot it down don't have a suggestion on how to deal with the problem.

It's funny, I feel like I'm on the ground floor of an exciting start-up with one guy looking across the street at Google and complaining that we don't have all the neat stuff they do.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: sneakyray on February 10, 2017, 11:38:15 AM
I feel like I'm sitting in a boring board meeting where someone throws an idea out there to help solve a problem, and the people that shoot it down don't have a suggestion on how to deal with the problem.

It's funny, I feel like I'm on the ground floor of an exciting start-up with one guy looking across the street at Google and complaining that we don't have all the neat stuff they do.

well put nik
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: dekedastardly on February 10, 2017, 11:39:45 AM
I feel like I'm sitting in a boring board meeting where someone throws an idea out there to help solve a problem, and the people that shoot it down don't have a suggestion on how to deal with the problem.

I'd start with sitting Roman Slolak and let Marchenko have a turn. Polak's foot speed really hinders their ability to efficiently move the puck in the defensive zone. I see him lose battles every game. He seems to struggle keeping pace, and if he's not going to bring the nasty and clear in front of the net, what good is he?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 10, 2017, 11:40:11 AM
my point is that you don't trade duchene at 20 (and nylander) for anybody because hes going to be a really good player in 1-3 years...hell nylander is already really good at 20.

Right and my counterpoint is that trading any player is as much a question of what you get back as it is how good the player you're trading is. Nylander's good. It's why he's valuable. It's why people think they'll be able to get equivalent value and address a weakness at the same time.

I think they're dead wrong about that last part but "We shouldn't trade anyone valuable" is just saying that you shouldn't trade for anyone valuable either.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: sneakyray on February 10, 2017, 11:50:36 AM
my point is that you don't trade duchene at 20 (and nylander) for anybody because hes going to be a really good player in 1-3 years...hell nylander is already really good at 20.

Right and my counterpoint is that trading any player is as much a question of what you get back as it is how good the player you're trading is. Nylander's good. It's why he's valuable. It's why people think they'll be able to get equivalent value and address a weakness at the same time.

I think they're dead wrong about that last part but "We shouldn't trade anyone valuable" is just saying that you shouldn't trade for anyone valuable either.

I agree nik.  Of course I wouldn't mind trading nylander for [insert superstar defenseman name here] but ultimately if the value isn't coming back there shouldn't be a trade and I think the leafs brass will hold to that too.  This is why we won't see the leafs make any big moves this deadline.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 10, 2017, 11:55:44 AM
I agree nik.  Of course I wouldn't mind trading nylander for [insert superstar defenseman name here] but ultimately if the value isn't coming back there shouldn't be a trade and I think the leafs brass will hold to that too.  This is why we won't see the leafs make any big moves this deadline.

That's all I'm saying. Trading Nylander is a bad idea but "Nylander's really good" isn't the reason.

But that said, if the Leafs don't trade out some veterans at the deadline I really truthfully believe deep down in my heart that they will be increasing the likelihood that they become a Colorado in a few years time.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: sneakyray on February 10, 2017, 12:12:31 PM
I agree nik.  Of course I wouldn't mind trading nylander for [insert superstar defenseman name here] but ultimately if the value isn't coming back there shouldn't be a trade and I think the leafs brass will hold to that too.  This is why we won't see the leafs make any big moves this deadline.

That's all I'm saying. Trading Nylander is a bad idea but "Nylander's really good" isn't the reason.

But that said, if the Leafs don't trade out some veterans at the deadline I really truthfully believe deep down in my heart that they will be increasing the likelihood that they become a Colorado in a few years time.

how so?  are you talking hunlak who both won't be back next year anyway?  or are you talking jvr bozak who are maybe deals for the offseason anyway.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: mr grieves on February 10, 2017, 12:34:39 PM
my point is that you don't trade duchene at 20 (and nylander) for anybody because hes going to be a really good player in 1-3 years...hell nylander is already really good at 20.

Right and my counterpoint is that trading any player is as much a question of what you get back as it is how good the player you're trading is. Nylander's good. It's why he's valuable. It's why people think they'll be able to get equivalent value and address a weakness at the same time.

I think they're dead wrong about that last part but "We shouldn't trade anyone valuable" is just saying that you shouldn't trade for anyone valuable either.

If that's true -- and based an (albeit very) limited sample -- it seems to be, I wonder if maybe we've been wrong to assume BPA is the best drafting strategy.

Maybe this all works out with a Dougie Hamilton-esque trade. That's a thing that happened once.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 10, 2017, 12:37:38 PM
If that's true -- and based an (albeit very) limited sample -- it seems to be, I wonder if maybe we've been wrong to assume BPA is the best drafting strategy.

I've long thought that way. Especially when BPA is really just Guy We Like the Most.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Dappleganger on February 10, 2017, 12:40:52 PM
Headline story today on sportsnet by Chris Johnston:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/rest-assured-maple-leafs-fans-william-nylander-isnt-going-anywhere/

I must say I am getting tired of the tsn guys literally just making stuff up.

TSN is Fake News.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on February 10, 2017, 02:31:55 PM
I feel like I'm sitting in a boring board meeting where someone throws an idea out there to help solve a problem, and the people that shoot it down don't have a suggestion on how to deal with the problem.

It's funny, I feel like I'm on the ground floor of an exciting start-up with one guy looking across the street at Google and complaining that we don't have all the neat stuff they do.

I don't understand how you'd feel that way, but if trade is out of the equation to deal with the low inventory "really good defenseman" asset situation, I guess you're suggesting drafting them, or signing UFA defensemen, or a combination of the 2?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 10, 2017, 03:08:07 PM
Keep drafting them. Keep trading expiring assets for undervalued/underutilized prospect depth (a la Gardiner, Leipsic, Carrick). Develop the heck out of them until the cream rises to the top.

We're not in win-now mode, so there isn't really a reason to spend a cost-controlled asset of significant talent unless we're getting a similar level player in return (Werenski, Provarov, Jones, Hamilton, Trouba, Lindholm, etc.).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on February 10, 2017, 03:27:12 PM
Keep drafting them. Keep trading expiring assets for undervalued/underutilized prospect depth (a la Gardiner, Leipsic, Carrick). Develop the heck out of them until the cream rises to the top.

We're not in win-now mode, so there isn't really a reason to spend a cost-controlled asset of significant talent unless we're getting a similar level player in return (Werenski, Provarov, Jones, Hamilton, Trouba, Lindholm, etc.).

Here, here.  Hopefully along the way one of those undervalued/underutilized prospect depth guys hits it big.  I guess Gardiner would be the closest example of that, he's turned into a pretty good defeneman.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on February 10, 2017, 03:28:21 PM
We're not in win-now mode, so there isn't really a reason to spend a cost-controlled asset of significant talent unless we're getting a similar level player in return (Werenski, Provarov, Jones, Hamilton, Trouba, Lindholm, etc.).*

*without having to add anything of significance to go with Nylander.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 10, 2017, 03:54:34 PM
I don't understand how you'd feel that way, but if trade is out of the equation to deal with the low inventory "really good defenseman" asset situation, I guess you're suggesting drafting them, or signing UFA defensemen, or a combination of the 2?

I think right now I'm less interested in the specifics of how they add to their defense than I am in them having the patience to realize the team, despite it's surprising competitiveness this season, is still 6 months removed from being the worst team in the league and as a result they don't have to have everything solved right now this minute. And that just because right this second the defense stinks and right this second we don't know who might emerge from our prospect pool as a major contributor that we need to be really concerned.

To that point, I also don't want their motivation to be "Our offense has looked pretty good the last 55 or so games, therefore it's set for the next 15 years and a guy who, absent his two teammates this year, might be having the best Leafs rookie season in almost 30 years is expendable".
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 10, 2017, 04:02:33 PM

To my point above, let's look for a second at the Jones for Johansen trade and look at what had to happen just on Nashville's end to make it possible:

- The 2012-2013 Predators, a team who in their previous three seasons averaged 101 points had to suddenly drop to having the second worst record in the league.

- Seth Jones, by most accounts a consensus #2 or maybe even #1 pick, had to drop to #4.

- Roman Josi, a second round pick who'd scored 34 points in the 100 games he'd played over the previous two seasons, had to emerge as a legitimate Norris contender making Jones somewhat expendable.

Now, that's not likely to happen again but right now the Leafs need to be in a wait and see approach. Stockpiling the assets that make it possible that if one of those situations is out there, they can jump on it.

Right now the Leafs need to let things come to them rather than trying to press the issue because they're under the mistaken belief that they've got a really short window to win.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on February 10, 2017, 04:33:02 PM
And that just because right this second the defense stinks and right this second we don't know who might emerge from our prospect pool as a major contributor that we need to be really concerned.

I also feel like I need to highlight something here. Improving the Leafs' defence and their defencemen are two different things. Related things, sure, but different. People seem to conflate the two.

The team's defence isn't going to be fixed by adding a top pairing defenceman. That'll help, sure, but the biggest thing that's going to help this team improve defensively is being afforded the time to gain experience and grow as a group - both forwards and defencemen. Defence is, after all, a team game.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: azzurri63 on February 10, 2017, 08:30:40 PM
And that just because right this second the defense stinks and right this second we don't know who might emerge from our prospect pool as a major contributor that we need to be really concerned.

I also feel like I need to highlight something here. Improving the Leafs' defence and their defencemen are two different things. Related things, sure, but different. People seem to conflate the two.

The team's defence isn't going to be fixed by adding a top pairing defenceman. That'll help, sure, but the biggest thing that's going to help this team improve defensively is being afforded the time to gain experience and grow as a group - both forwards and defencemen. Defence is, after all, a team game.

Totally agree. Sure we can use an upgrade on the D but I think our problem is team defence. That's why I'm a bit peeved at Babcock and company for not fixing it. The quality scoring chances this team gives up game after game is atrocious and has been for the entire season. Was a stretch there a couple months ago where it was better but for the most part it's been dreadful all season long. It's Babcock's and the rest of the coaching staff to iron it out. I don';t understand how difficult it is to play 5 on 5 and cover your man. It's not that hard.I understand this team is young, tons of rookies, mistakes to be made but I haven't seen anything change really from game one. The team has to pull together and more so the forwards I think have to help out the D better. I know the offence may suffer from that but that's how good teams win. Maybe Mike & company wanna play this run and gun style. Nylander is going to be a great player. Unless it's for a D man like Herman suggested I"m not doing it, be a tough decision that may come back and bite us. I think the Leafs can improve the D without trading any of the valued youngsters. Couple minor tweaks or maybe a solid free agent signing and the D is better. Limit the good scoring chances and we'll be fine.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 10, 2017, 08:36:11 PM
It's Babcock's and the rest of the coaching staff to iron it out. I don';t understand how difficult it is to play 5 on 5 and cover your man. It's not that hard.

If turning a team without a lot of defensive talent into a team that did a very good job limiting scoring chances was easy then no team in the entire league would give up a lot of chances and bad defensive play would be a thing of the past.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: azzurri63 on February 10, 2017, 08:45:09 PM
It's Babcock's and the rest of the coaching staff to iron it out. I don';t understand how difficult it is to play 5 on 5 and cover your man. It's not that hard.

If turning a team without a lot of defensive talent into a team that did a very good job limiting scoring chances was easy then no team in the entire league would give up a lot of chances and bad defensive play would be a thing of the past.

Nik our D corps isn't great I get that but a lot of the issues I think come from the forwards being out of position or running around etc. Every team gives up scoring chances I just think we give up way too may on a nightly basis. Babcock should simplify things and limit those chances. All these games we've blown don't just come down on the D it's the whole team. part of that problem and I'm not saying some changes on the D wouldn't help is to get some tougher D in here. All these guys other than Polak are softer than butter especially in front of the net. That I would like to see addressed.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on February 10, 2017, 08:54:28 PM
1,2,1,2,3,Goals
[whistle]
Shed a tear 'cause they'd be missin' you
We'll put our trust in Kyle
Willie, they think about you every day now
Was a time when they weren't so sure
But you set their minds at ease
There is no doubt
You're a star now

Said, Shanny, take it slow
It'll work itself out fine
All we need is just a little patience
Said, Dubas, make it slow
And we come together fine
All we need is just a little patience
(patience)
Mm, yeah

Fans sit here in the stands
'Cause they'd rather see a win
If they can't have the cup right now
They'll wait, years
Sometimes the fans get so tense
But they can't speed up the time
But you know, Lou
There's one more thing to consider

Said, Shanny, take it slow
And things will be just fine
Lou and I'll just use a little patience
Said, Dubas, take the time
'Cause the rookies are shining bright
Lou and I've got what it takes
To make it, We won't trade him,
You'll never break him
'cause you can't take him

[whistle]
...little patience, mm yeah, mm yeah
need a little patience, yeah
just a little patience, yeah
some more patience, yeah
need some patience, yeah
could use some patience, yeah
gotta have some patience, yeah
all it takes is patience,
just a little patience
is all you need

THEY BEEN SCOUTIN' THE GAMES AT NIGHT
JUST TRYIN' TO GET IT RIGHT
HARD TO SEE WITH SO MANY AROUND
WE KNOW YOU DO LIKE
TO SKATE THROUGH A CROWD
AND THE D ALL CHANGE
BUT THE GOALS ARE THE SAME
HE'S GOT A MIND FOR THE GAME
'CAUSE THEY NEED YOU
YEAH, YEAH, BUT THEY NEED YOU
OO, THEY NEED YOU
WHOA, THEY NEED YOU
OO, ALL THIS TIME
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on February 11, 2017, 08:14:00 AM
And that just because right this second the defense stinks and right this second we don't know who might emerge from our prospect pool as a major contributor that we need to be really concerned.

I also feel like I need to highlight something here. Improving the Leafs' defence and their defencemen are two different things. Related things, sure, but different. People seem to conflate the two.

The team's defence isn't going to be fixed by adding a top pairing defenceman. That'll help, sure, but the biggest thing that's going to help this team improve defensively is being afforded the time to gain experience and grow as a group - both forwards and defencemen. Defence is, after all, a team game.

And just so that I'm clear, I'm not conflating them.  I'm specifically interesting in the team acquiring a defenseman that's of the caliber of Doughty or Keith. 

I agree that the team will take time to learn how to play a good defensive game, but I think they've got some pretty sharp young men there, and they're certainly well on their way to adjusting to the NHL game.

I don't really care why other people are wanting to address the defensemen, or lack thereof, but for me, this was always about building a contender, and I don't see a Stanley Cup winning team lately that doesn't have that 30 minute playoff TOI guy.

My thinking along the trade line was to somehow get a guy or two that was within the age cohort of the current emerging core, given that these elite defensemen usually take more than a few years to develop.

If they want to draft a couple, and the Leafs don't get themselves a legit top pairing guy (2 please) until 2020 'ish, I think you're going to have a problem getting sustainable increases in winning % moving forward over the next few years.

Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 11, 2017, 10:35:07 AM
Nik our D corps isn't great I get that but a lot of the issues I think come from the forwards being out of position or running around etc. Every team gives up scoring chances I just think we give up way too may on a nightly basis. Babcock should simplify things and limit those chances. All these games we've blown don't just come down on the D it's the whole team. part of that problem and I'm not saying some changes on the D wouldn't help is to get some tougher D in here. All these guys other than Polak are softer than butter especially in front of the net. That I would like to see addressed.

So leaving aside your opinion that the D needs "toughness", which believe me you've mentioned before, you are then of the opinion that there is something that Mike Babcock can do tactically as a coach that:

A) Would significantly lower the number of chances allowed
B) Would not lower the team's offensive output(or at least not to the point that it's a negative gain)
C) Is simple and straight forward and can be easily done by a team full of rookies.

Despite this very simple, incredibly effective strategy that's easy to see and implement, Babcock is steadfastly refusing to take the team in that direction because....he's afraid of hard work? Doesn't like winning?

Fact is, getting a young team to play good defense is going to be hard. A team without a lot of defensive talent on it makes it harder. The idea that there's just some flip Babcock could switch and change things for the better but that he doesn't makes almost no sense. "Just cover your man" is not a defensive strategy and it ignores that other teams scheme to free up men so as to generate offensive chances. "Just be in position all the time" is not possible.

It's like the people who think that the Leafs struggles to give up leads is because Babcock isn't telling them to force the play and not sit back. Babcock's a smart guy, they're paying him a lot of money to coach the team. If improving things were simple, I'm pretty confident he'd have figured it out.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Andy on February 11, 2017, 10:55:17 AM

The way I look at it, a lot of these guys have so much to learn in the way of positioning, reading the play and defending that I don't really put much stock into blown leads, coverage and the like. Three of the team's top players are 20 and younger on a squad heavily comprised of rookies. There (currently) isn't a top pairing D-man on the roster. The fact that this team is in a playoff spot this far into the season is, to me at least, astounding.

And I don't see how "toughness" (or the lack thereof) has anything to do with any of the Leafs' struggles this year, quite frankly.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on February 11, 2017, 02:17:27 PM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on February 11, 2017, 02:36:07 PM
When dat comes from the boss man, that is great news. Willie can be a true superstar in time.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 11, 2017, 06:40:40 PM

Expanding on this:
www.twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/830458685809893376

Cool to know Willy and Leo operate in Swedish.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on February 12, 2017, 01:27:24 AM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: mr grieves on February 12, 2017, 02:14:57 PM
Hyman and Brown have one even-strength goal in the last 12 games. Puck Daddy recommends reuniting Matthews with Nylander...

Quote
This isn’t a case of Nylander benefiting from the privilege of jumping over the boards with Matthews, it’s a partnership that helps both sides. The reason it works is because their styles mesh perfectly.

Nylander specializes in attacking with speed on the perimeter and feeding the middle of the ice with precision passes. Matthews has made his name so far finding space in the slot for fast-release snap shots and going to the net to make use of his excellent hands. Nylander sets them up, Matthews knocks them down.

link: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/709044-155554636.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on February 12, 2017, 02:29:22 PM
Hyman and Brown have one even-strength goal in the last 12 games. Puck Daddy recommends reuniting Matthews with Nylander...

Quote
This isn’t a case of Nylander benefiting from the privilege of jumping over the boards with Matthews, it’s a partnership that helps both sides. The reason it works is because their styles mesh perfectly.

Nylander specializes in attacking with speed on the perimeter and feeding the middle of the ice with precision passes. Matthews has made his name so far finding space in the slot for fast-release snap shots and going to the net to make use of his excellent hands. Nylander sets them up, Matthews knocks them down.

link: http://sports.yahoo.com/news/709044-155554636.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

From what I understand, Babcock likes Brown there for the defensive responsibilities. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 13, 2017, 09:12:32 AM
From what I understand, Babcock likes Brown there for the defensive responsibilities. 

Isn't that why Hyman's there?

Anyway I think Babcock is in a bit of a tough spot there. If you put Nylander with Matthews then you take a lot of offence off the Kadri line. It's the reason why I wish he would have kept the Bozak line broken up. I think he made a mistake in putting Bozak with Komarov and Brown, that was a very strange trio, but I wish Kadri and Marner could have lasted more than a couple of periods. It should be something like:

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Marner
JVR-Bozak-Brown

Each line has an offensive duo + a more defensively responsible forward. It's a fairly obvious way to spread out our offence.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 13, 2017, 09:36:54 AM
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Marner
JVR-Bozak-Brown

The reason I don't think Babcock wants to do this is that the Bozak line will be missing a driver. Neither of the three have the carrying ability that Matthews, Kadri, Marner, Nylander have. Of those four, Kadri's is relatively the weakest at carry, so Nylander on his wing makes the most current sense.

I do agree that Kadri-Marner is a potential target pairing once Nylander transitions into centre (and Bozak is traded).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 13, 2017, 09:51:08 AM
The reason I don't think Babcock wants to do this is that the Bozak line will be missing a driver. Neither of the three have the carrying ability that Matthews, Kadri, Marner, Nylander have. Of those four, Kadri's is relatively the weakest at carry, so Nylander on his wing makes the most current sense.

Last year JVR was far and away the best Leaf when it came to zone entries: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/04/29/toronto-maple-leafs-scoring-chances-and-zone-entries-season-review/. Maybe he doesn't do it as "flashy" as some of the other forwards you mentioned, but he was very effective at it.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: RedLeaf on February 13, 2017, 10:33:13 AM
Personally, I'd love to see a Nylander, Marner combo.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 13, 2017, 10:35:19 AM
The reason I don't think Babcock wants to do this is that the Bozak line will be missing a driver. Neither of the three have the carrying ability that Matthews, Kadri, Marner, Nylander have. Of those four, Kadri's is relatively the weakest at carry, so Nylander on his wing makes the most current sense.

Last year JVR was far and away the best Leaf when it came to zone entries: https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2016/04/29/toronto-maple-leafs-scoring-chances-and-zone-entries-season-review/. Maybe he doesn't do it as "flashy" as some of the other forwards you mentioned, but he was very effective at it.

For whatever reason (maybe the rising tide of talent, or the play being funneled through Marner), this year, JvR can't seem to handle the puck as well as I expected through the neutral zone, unless it's a fast break play. We'll probably have to wait until next year to see the zone entry stats for this season.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 13, 2017, 10:36:24 AM
Personally, I'd love to see a Nylander, Marner combo.

I think Marner is better with a lefty centre. He's a tic-tac-toe player and the difference is pretty immediate any time he plays with Kadri or Matthews.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 13, 2017, 10:45:09 AM
For whatever reason (maybe the rising tide of talent, or the play being funneled through Marner), this year, JvR can't seem to handle the puck as well as I expected through the neutral zone, unless it's a fast break play. We'll probably have to wait until next year to see the zone entry stats for this season.

Either way, we should be able to expect offence out of JVR-Bozak even without a "driver" if they're being used in that sheltered offensive role I think. I mean they aren't scrubs.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 13, 2017, 02:25:55 PM
Either way, we should be able to expect offence out of JVR-Bozak even without a "driver" if they're being used in that sheltered offensive role I think. I mean they aren't scrubs.

I'd be curious to see them try it. In my head, I can't really see it working.

This might be wacky interesting though:
Hyman - Matthews - Bozak
Komarov - Kadri - Marner
JvR - Nylander - Brown

Aside from faceoffs, Bozak is really quite good as a tic-tac-toe guy, and he has the speed to actually keep up. Putting him on the wing decreases his stationary defense being such a liability, and his selective, sneaky shooting gives the line a really good backdoor option when Matthews is inevitably triple-teamed. It also adds face-off insurance against top opponents.

Nylander and Brown already have chemistry from playing together on the Marlies (albeit centred by Froese). With JvR, Nylander has a lefty to play catch with in transition. Brown is the defensive conscience, backed up by Nylander's underrated pocket-picking ability. Nylander's points totals this season have been tanked by having to pass to fourth liners/Komarov all season. JvR we know can definitely handle stupid-hard (Kessel) or surprising (Marner) passes.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 13, 2017, 02:28:17 PM
Babcock pre-preemptively shut down that idea earlier today :P

Quote
Chris Johnston @reporterchris  2 hours ago
Mike Babcock says William Nylander will remain a winger the rest of the season. His eventual transition to centre will come later on.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 13, 2017, 02:46:15 PM
Babcock pre-preemptively shut down that idea earlier today :P

Quote
Chris Johnston @reporterchris  2 hours ago
Mike Babcock says William Nylander will remain a winger the rest of the season. His eventual transition to centre will come later on.

That just means Bozak isn't getting traded at the deadline this season.

*weeps quietly
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on February 13, 2017, 02:51:36 PM
Babcock pre-preemptively shut down that idea earlier today :P

Quote
Chris Johnston @reporterchris  2 hours ago
Mike Babcock says William Nylander will remain a winger the rest of the season. His eventual transition to centre will come later on.

He must have read herman's post and figured he'd best nip that thing in the bud right away.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 13, 2017, 03:06:40 PM
Babcock is not lying, but he's also not telling you the whole story.

Some beautiful soul posted this in reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/5tttis/streamable_nylander_transition_game_other/): https://streamable.com/wgaam

Watch the flow, and tell me he's not already playing centre.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on February 13, 2017, 07:08:10 PM
That just means Bozak isn't getting traded at the deadline this season.

*weeps quietly

Or that another C is coming in as part of that deal . . . (or Laich/Froese are getting a major promotion).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 22, 2017, 04:38:38 PM
Video Room: Can William Nylander play centre for the Maple Leafs?
https://theathletic.com/39765/2017/02/22/video-room-can-william-nylander-play-centre-for-the-maple-leafs/

Lessons from Datsyuk (for those that can read it).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on February 22, 2017, 06:04:29 PM
Willie on the verge of setting power-play records.

MARNTHEWDERS: the Beast of the Future. Drafted 1st/4th/8th overall in 2014-16. A combined weight of 586lbs.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2017, 06:18:59 PM
Video Room: Can William Nylander play centre for the Maple Leafs?
https://theathletic.com/39765/2017/02/22/video-room-can-william-nylander-play-centre-for-the-maple-leafs/

Lessons from Datsyuk (for those that can read it).

Please don't just link to subscription sites w/o providing a line or two of takeaways.  Presumably, anyone who already has a subscription already knows about the article, and those of us who don't can't read it.  Thanks.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on February 22, 2017, 06:24:21 PM

I'm going to suggest something crazy. Matthews, Marner, Nylander....let's keep 'em all and build around them.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 22, 2017, 06:26:05 PM
Video Room: Can William Nylander play centre for the Maple Leafs?
https://theathletic.com/39765/2017/02/22/video-room-can-william-nylander-play-centre-for-the-maple-leafs/

Lessons from Datsyuk (for those that can read it).

Please don't just link to subscription sites w/o providing a line or two of takeaways.  Presumably, anyone who already has a subscription already knows about the article, and those of us who don't can't read it.  Thanks.

Quote
In an ideal world, William Nylander slots in behind Auston Matthews as the No. 2 centre of the Maple Leafs.

The Swede, who has played on the wing most of this season, is already creating offence at an impressive pace both at even-strength and on the power play. But what will he need to incorporate into his game to become an everyday centre in the NHL?

An interesting comparable for Nylander is Montreal Canadiens forward Alex Galchenyuk.

It goes on to describe some of the growing pains Galchenyuk has had trying to play in the middle, despite being very good offensively at 5v5. There are video clips of how Datsyuk played the position defensively to illustrate what these young guys will looks to emulate.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 22, 2017, 06:27:34 PM

I'm going to suggest something crazy. Matthews, Marner, Nylander....let's keep 'em all and build around them.

Gee Willikers Mister, I think you might just be on to something!!!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: azzurri63 on February 22, 2017, 06:30:30 PM

I'm going to suggest something crazy. Matthews, Marner, Nylander....let's keep 'em all and build around them.

Ya I agree. All the talk about Nylander possibly being the guy shopped for a defensemen I hope are just rumours. The kid is gifted and a vital part of the rebuild. Like I said last night if he's traded I'll be pis*ed.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on February 22, 2017, 07:07:05 PM

I'm going to suggest something crazy. Matthews, Marner, Nylander....let's keep 'em all and build around them.
Craig Button would have issue with this approach. Of course he's not employed by an NHL team anymore.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 22, 2017, 07:08:08 PM
Please don't just link to subscription sites w/o providing a line or two of takeaways.  Presumably, anyone who already has a subscription already knows about the article, and those of us who don't can't read it.  Thanks.

Duly noted on your point, but I probably won't put in the extra effort to precis them. Those who want to read them without going through the paywall will find them the usual way. I have no affiliation with The Athletic, but like this forum, it's one of the online communities I will try to keep alive.

All the talk about Nylander possibly being the guy shopped for a defensemen I hope are just rumours. The kid is gifted and a vital part of the rebuild. Like I said last night if he's traded I'll be pis*ed.

They're not even rumours; just media TSN spitballing about the cost to buy what they think the team needs.

Also, obvious question that I'm sure everyone is dying to know the answer to: when are you not pis*ed?  ;D
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: azzurri63 on February 22, 2017, 09:00:28 PM
Please don't just link to subscription sites w/o providing a line or two of takeaways.  Presumably, anyone who already has a subscription already knows about the article, and those of us who don't can't read it.  Thanks.

Duly noted on your point, but I probably won't put in the extra effort to precis them. Those who want to read them without going through the paywall will find them the usual way. I have no affiliation with The Athletic, but like this forum, it's one of the online communities I will try to keep alive.

All the talk about Nylander possibly being the guy shopped for a defensemen I hope are just rumours. The kid is gifted and a vital part of the rebuild. Like I said last night if he's traded I'll be pis*ed.

They're not even rumours; just media TSN spitballing about the cost to buy what they think the team needs.

Also, obvious question that I'm sure everyone is dying to know the answer to: when are you not pis*ed?  ;D

You'd be surprised herman I actually have a great sense of humor and pretty laid back. Leafs are my heart and soul and yes I get ticked off at times watching them. Maybe it's all the years of futility coming out. My Dad was a Leaf fan and unfortunately he passed away with out seeing them win a Cup. That's my dream.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on February 22, 2017, 10:14:30 PM
Please don't just link to subscription sites w/o providing a line or two of takeaways.  Presumably, anyone who already has a subscription already knows about the article, and those of us who don't can't read it.  Thanks.

Duly noted on your point, but I probably won't put in the extra effort to precis them. Those who want to read them without going through the paywall will find them the usual way. I have no affiliation with The Athletic, but like this forum, it's one of the online communities I will try to keep alive.

All the talk about Nylander possibly being the guy shopped for a defensemen I hope are just rumours. The kid is gifted and a vital part of the rebuild. Like I said last night if he's traded I'll be pis*ed.

They're not even rumours; just media TSN spitballing about the cost to buy what they think the team needs.

Also, obvious question that I'm sure everyone is dying to know the answer to: when are you not pis*ed?  ;D

Fair enough herman.  But I don't know what you mean by getting around the paywall "the usual way."
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bill_Berg on February 22, 2017, 10:45:58 PM
Please don't just link to subscription sites w/o providing a line or two of takeaways.  Presumably, anyone who already has a subscription already knows about the article, and those of us who don't can't read it.  Thanks.

Duly noted on your point, but I probably won't put in the extra effort to precis them. Those who want to read them without going through the paywall will find them the usual way. I have no affiliation with The Athletic, but like this forum, it's one of the online communities I will try to keep alive.

All the talk about Nylander possibly being the guy shopped for a defensemen I hope are just rumours. The kid is gifted and a vital part of the rebuild. Like I said last night if he's traded I'll be pis*ed.

They're not even rumours; just media TSN spitballing about the cost to buy what they think the team needs.

Also, obvious question that I'm sure everyone is dying to know the answer to: when are you not pis*ed?  ;D

Fair enough herman.  But I don't know what you mean by getting around the paywall "the usual way."

Steal it,  man.  He means steal it. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 23, 2017, 06:48:50 AM
It's hard to tell if Lou is throwing shade here, but I am thinking yes.
www.twitter.com/timandsid/status/834544434230472704
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 23, 2017, 06:51:14 AM
Steal it,  man.  He means steal it.

There is a place where Leaf fans also gather and share Leaf articles, even paywalled ones, so more people can say they read it too.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bill_Berg on February 23, 2017, 07:16:03 AM
Steal it,  man.  He means steal it.

There is a place where Leaf fans also gather and share Leaf articles, even paywalled ones, so more people can say they read it too.

Oh yeah?  Where us that?  My interest is peaked.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on February 23, 2017, 08:19:17 AM
Steal it,  man.  He means steal it.

There is a place where Leaf fans also gather and share Leaf articles, even paywalled ones, so more people can say they read it too.

Oh yeah?  Where us that?  My interest is peaked.


Tijuana.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 23, 2017, 09:00:24 AM
Oh yeah?  Where us that?  My interest is peaked.

My interest was piqued by the content and the authorship The Athletic was gathering as well, so I just subscribed. If you go through Mirtle's Twitter feed, he usually leaves a discount link around. I picked up an annual one for less than $4 a month. Someone ran the numbers and it's like 11 cents an article, an amount I would seriously just shrug at accidentally losing, let alone getting a well researched piece of insight into a team/sport I am emotionally invested in.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on February 23, 2017, 11:12:51 AM
It's hard to tell if Lou is throwing shade here, but I am thinking yes.
www.twitter.com/timandsid/status/834544434230472704

https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/02/22/lou-lamoriello-william-nylander-willy-integral-part-hockey-team-hes-integral-part-future/

Full quote, thanks to MLHS:
Quote
William Nylander is a guy who impresses a lot of people with his skills. We’ve seen in the past that he has had some tete-a-tetes with his head coach. How close is he to being the player that you guys want him to be?

Lamoriello: First of all, there are always some players that you will always expect more out of because of the style of play that they have and the way they bring the game. Not negative, but you’re always going to expect more. And yet, when you look at the score sheet, you find their name. Or you look at the number of points they have and you see where they’re at. And that’s a Willy Nylander, who is capable of throwing you out of your seat at different times, making a play like he did last night on the goal by Leo Komarov. Willy is an integral part of this hockey team. He’s an integral part of the future, and he brings special skills that a lot of players do not have.

Also fun is watching Lou 'dodge and weave' questions by actually sticking to his philosophical anchors and not moving.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bill_Berg on February 23, 2017, 01:07:09 PM
Oh yeah?  Where us that?  My interest is peaked.

My interest was piqued by the content and the authorship The Athletic was gathering as well, so I just subscribed. If you go through Mirtle's Twitter feed, he usually leaves a discount link around. I picked up an annual one for less than $4 a month. Someone ran the numbers and it's like 11 cents an article, an amount I would seriously just shrug at accidentally losing, let alone getting a well researched piece of insight into a team/sport I am emotionally invested in.

I liked Tijuana better.  :D
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on February 23, 2017, 01:20:30 PM
Where the hell is this media frenzy of "trade Nylander!" coming from?   Everywhere I turn they're talking about it.  Gino Reda suggested that Nylander has put Lou in a great position of strength now because he's playing so well and upped his trade value.  Have these reporters not been living in Toronto for the last 40 years and seen examples that indicate you shouldn't trade young skilled players for a quick fix now?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: LuncheonMeat on February 23, 2017, 01:35:24 PM
Where the hell is this media frenzy of "trade Nylander!" coming from?   Everywhere I turn they're talking about it.  Gino Reda suggested that Nylander has put Lou in a great position of strength now because he's playing so well and upped his trade value.  Have these reporters not been living in Toronto for the last 40 years and seen examples that indicate you shouldn't trade young skilled players for a quick fix now?

Especially when you veterans like Bozak and JVR that you can package with assets/picks to accomplish the same sort of thing (I hope).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: nutman on February 23, 2017, 01:44:40 PM
Where the hell is this media frenzy of "trade Nylander!" coming from?   Everywhere I turn they're talking about it.  Gino Reda suggested that Nylander has put Lou in a great position of strength now because he's playing so well and upped his trade value.  Have these reporters not been living in Toronto for the last 40 years and seen examples that indicate you shouldn't trade young skilled players for a quick fix now?



Nope... they are all lost. sport reporters for the most part now days don't have a clue. I cant even pick up a sports section now days because there full of crap. when I need a scoop on whats going on with the Leafs, I come here. The crew on here are for the most part very clear and understand how the game works. The media today will say anything to get viewers. Haha here's a thought... the press should come here ,and we could set them strait.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on February 23, 2017, 02:19:41 PM
Please don't just link to subscription sites w/o providing a line or two of takeaways.  Presumably, anyone who already has a subscription already knows about the article, and those of us who don't can't read it.  Thanks.

Duly noted on your point, but I probably won't put in the extra effort to precis them. Those who want to read them without going through the paywall will find them the usual way. I have no affiliation with The Athletic, but like this forum, it's one of the online communities I will try to keep alive.

All the talk about Nylander possibly being the guy shopped for a defensemen I hope are just rumours. The kid is gifted and a vital part of the rebuild. Like I said last night if he's traded I'll be pis*ed.

They're not even rumours; just media TSN spitballing about the cost to buy what they think the team needs.

Also, obvious question that I'm sure everyone is dying to know the answer to: when are you not pis*ed?  ;D

Fair enough herman.  But I don't know what you mean by getting around the paywall "the usual way."

I subscribe to The Athletic too like herman, it's a great app that I really enjoy.

I appreciate some people aren't able or willing to pay and since I like people here I'll say that most articles about the Leafs can be found at : https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/ within a few hours of them being published.

If you like what you read I'd really recommend a subscription to the Athletic, a little over 3 bucks a month is a great deal.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on March 10, 2017, 09:23:38 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/just-wicked-shot-william-nylander-student-game/

The Nylander recognition I've been waiting for.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on March 11, 2017, 02:19:39 PM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/whats-behind-william-nylanders-apparent-improvement/

Literally what happens every time someone snipes a corner off the rush: everyone writes an article they've been holding on to for months.

See November 2014 after Kessel ruins Rask's night.
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/phil-kessel-toronto-maple-leafs-wrist-shot-best-how-to/
https://www.nhl.com/news/phil-kessel-shows-off-his-shot-that-still-wows-his-maple-leafs-teammates/c-738901
http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/sports/nhl/blog.html?b=news.nationalpost.com/sports/nhl/whats-the-secret-to-toronto-maple-leafs-forward-phil-kessels-shot
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on March 11, 2017, 02:25:26 PM

I think one of the things that makes Nylander so fascinating right now is that unlike Matthews or Marner, there seems to be a lot more uncertainty as to the kind of player he'll eventually be. I can see him being more of a distributor after he transitions into the middle of the ice but he might also be able to use that shot to score 30 a year.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: McGarnagle on March 11, 2017, 03:15:41 PM
I think one of the things that makes Nylander so fascinating right now is that unlike Matthews or Marner, there seems to be a lot more uncertainty as to the kind of player he'll eventually be.

Let alone what kind of player, but even what position he'll settle into. Out of three elite rookie forwards, I think his game has improved the most from season start to current. There'd be stretches early on when he looked almost disinterested on the ice. It looks like he's really started figuring it out.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on March 11, 2017, 04:37:50 PM
I think one of the things that makes Nylander so fascinating right now is that unlike Matthews or Marner, there seems to be a lot more uncertainty as to the kind of player he'll eventually be.

Let alone what kind of player, but even what position he'll settle into. Out of three elite rookie forwards, I think his game has improved the most from season start to current. There'd be stretches early on when he looked almost disinterested on the ice. It looks like he's really started figuring it out.
Ya, Willie could be the real sleeper in the gang of 3.  I think he is going to be a great one.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on March 11, 2017, 06:58:15 PM
Good on them having Willie a winger this year so he can learn other things and not have to worry about the center responsibilities just yet.
Eventually down the middle:
Matthews
Nylander
Kadri
Bozak/Boyle
... not too shabby.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: KGB on March 12, 2017, 04:02:40 PM
I agree that he's improved himself since the start of the season -- can anyone imagine him being scratched at this point?  You watch that goal against the Flyers and then you think about the fact that this guy's only our third best rookie.  Third best??  Any other season in the past 30 and he'd have us in a lather over the fact that we finally drafted a bona fide blue chipper.  I'm not a fair weather fan but I haven't been this emotionally involved with the Leafs since the Quinn/Sundin years. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on March 12, 2017, 11:08:52 PM
I agree that he's improved himself since the start of the season -- can anyone imagine him being scratched at this point?  You watch that goal against the Flyers and then you think about the fact that this guy's only our third best rookie.  Third best??  Any other season in the past 30 and he'd have us in a lather over the fact that we finally drafted a bona fide blue chipper.  I'm not a fair weather fan but I haven't been this emotionally involved with the Leafs since the Quinn/Sundin years.
I know, I was just thinking that. A Marner, Matthews or Nylander alone in any other year is exceptional for this club. But three of them in one year ;D

Last year's pick was a center ready to go, two years ago it was a highly-skilled winger who played on more year of junior, and three years ago another skilled winger/center who is playing winger this year. All three basically entering at the same time. Along with the other complimentary rookies, this team makes a 25-point jump from last year.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on March 20, 2017, 11:52:52 PM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on March 23, 2017, 09:45:43 AM
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZxP4tuCrgM[/youtube]

Worth a re-watch. A lot of things had to go right, incidentally, for this to happen.

Bozak is in position to corral the Mitch Marner turnover that got dumped deep because his stick was ripped form his hands a few seconds earlier and he went back to get it.

Nylander was trapped on the change, out of gas, and then tripped at his blueline, so he was ignored by the defense, before Bozak fires a great area pass for the outlet. Apparently Nylander running on fumes is still plenty fast.

Quote
“I just saw there was a guy backchecking on me and I was tired so I just wanted to get it to the net and it went in, so I was happy,” Nylander said. “Great pass by Tyler (Bozak), very good pass.”


Korpisalo cut off the angle all the way to the circle, but was caught leaning to the glove side on his wiggle back to match Nylander's speed, and gave all the room Willy needed to go bar-in.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Arn on March 23, 2017, 10:36:18 AM
Nylander's trade value is SO high right now
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bullfrog on March 23, 2017, 10:41:27 AM
Nylander's trade value is SO high right now

 >:(
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on March 23, 2017, 10:51:23 AM
I am in love with this young fellow.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on March 23, 2017, 11:12:12 AM
I am in love with this young fellow.

There are many young fellows on this team that I love.  Never seen a Leafs team with a brighter future in my lifetime.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on March 23, 2017, 11:17:09 AM
Remember when the Leafs were dumb for not having drafted Larkin instead of Nylander, because Detroit is awesome at drafting? Larkin has a whopping 5 more points in 57 more career games, and Nylander has already surpassed Larkin's rookie season by 9 points.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 23, 2017, 11:21:45 AM
Remember when the Leafs were dumb for not having drafted Larkin instead of Nylander, because Detroit is awesome at drafting? Larkin has a whopping 5 more points in 57 more career games, and Nylander has already surpassed Larkin's rookie season by 9 points.

You guys don't get it.  Detroit's scouts are the best in the league.  They have drafted guys in the 6th round and they went on to be superstars.  They know what you're doing.  Some of you on here are just up on your high horse trying to be right all the time.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on March 23, 2017, 11:24:39 AM
Remember when the Leafs were dumb for not having drafted Larkin instead of Nylander, because Detroit is awesome at drafting? Larkin has a whopping 5 more points in 57 more career games, and Nylander has already surpassed Larkin's rookie season by 9 points.

You guys don't get it.  Detroit's scouts are the best in the league.  They have drafted guys in the 6th round and they went on to be superstars.  They know what you're doing.  Some of you on here are just up on your high horse trying to be right all the time.

Well played. ;D
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on March 23, 2017, 11:25:55 AM
Remember when the Leafs were dumb for not having drafted Larkin instead of Nylander, because Detroit is awesome at drafting? Larkin has a whopping 5 more points in 57 more career games, and Nylander has already surpassed Larkin's rookie season by 9 points.

You guys don't get it.  Detroit's scouts are the best in the league.  They have drafted guys in the 6th round and they went on to be superstars.  They know what you're doing.  Some of you on here are just up on your high horse trying to be right all the time.

Well played. ;D

Old threads are the best.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on April 01, 2017, 03:01:30 PM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: L K on April 01, 2017, 03:07:19 PM
October - William Nylander
November - Zach Werenski
December - Auston Matthews
January - Mitch Marner
February - Patrick Laine
March - William Nylander

4 of 6 months going to Leaf rookies.  Nylander is the only 2 time winner.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on April 02, 2017, 06:28:30 PM
Willy is Silly (Good)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 02, 2017, 10:02:49 PM
Say what you will, but Larkin is the kind of guy you go to war with.  Nylander is Floaty McFloatface.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on April 02, 2017, 10:08:16 PM
Say what you will, but Larkin is the kind of guy you go to war with.  Nylander is Floaty McFloatface.

There's this other guy who was well known for his ability to float . . .

(http://i2.cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/assets/141015161026-muhammad-ali-trash-talking-moments-orig-mg-00000127-story-top.jpg)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: mr grieves on April 02, 2017, 10:19:16 PM
Say what you will, but Larkin is the kind of guy you go to war with.

It is good that they're just playing hockey then.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Arn on April 03, 2017, 05:29:28 AM
Say what you will, but Larkin is the kind of guy you go to war with.

It is good that they're just playing hockey then.

I know; Sweden hasn't even been to war since like 1814!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on April 03, 2017, 08:42:53 AM
Say what you will, but Larkin is the kind of guy you go to war with.

It is good that they're just playing hockey then.

I know; Sweden hasn't even been to war since like 1814!

Swedes make love, not war.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on April 03, 2017, 03:31:29 PM
www.twitter.com/kristen_shilton/status/848935509439238145
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on April 04, 2017, 02:40:34 AM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on April 18, 2017, 12:01:35 AM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: mr grieves on April 18, 2017, 05:26:34 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9syxttXYAA1vKM.jpg:large)

 ;D
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on April 18, 2017, 05:43:40 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9syxttXYAA1vKM.jpg:large)

 ;D
I guess that says it all, lets get Willie a big shinny dress and a microphone ;)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on April 18, 2017, 06:49:16 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9syxttXYAA1vKM.jpg:large)

 ;D
I guess that says it all, lets get Willie a big shinny dress and a microphone ;)


And Kapanen a hill of ants.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on April 19, 2017, 08:48:48 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9syxttXYAA1vKM.jpg:large)

 ;D
I guess that says it all, lets get Willie a big shinny dress and a microphone ;)

A massive diva and an aardvark....interesting.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on April 19, 2017, 10:27:01 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9syxttXYAA1vKM.jpg:large)

 ;D
I guess that says it all, lets get Willie a big shinny dress and a microphone ;)

A massive diva and an aardvark....interesting.
Could make for a new TV series.....
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: princedpw on April 19, 2017, 06:23:55 PM
It is interesting to look at that draft and try to order the top players according to their current value.  Are the top three players these guys:

Draisaitl (77pts ... but plays with McDavid)
Ekblad (... tough to compare but I hear he's good!)
Pastrnak (34g, 70pts)

Perhaps then Ehlers and Nylander, who seem roughly equal?

Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on April 19, 2017, 06:35:29 PM
It is interesting to look at that draft and try to order the top players according to their current value.  Are the top three players these guys:

Draisaitl (77pts ... but plays with McDavid)
Ekblad (... tough to compare but I hear he's good!)
Pastrnak (34g, 70pts)

Perhaps then Ehlers and Nylander, who seem roughly equal?

Try going by Points per Game and it'll look pretty clear.
Primary points would be even clearer. At least for forwards.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on April 25, 2017, 03:36:12 PM
www.twitter.com/myregularface/status/856884742582652930
www.twitter.com/Hana15x/status/856334050520424452

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/capitals/william-nylander-was-raised-by-the-capitals-now-hes-trying-to-eliminate-them/2017/04/16/615c8b00-22ce-11e7-b503-9d616bd5a305_story.html

Note to TSN: this is how you do a Nylander article.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: L K on April 25, 2017, 03:50:39 PM
So next year do you move Nylander up the middle or do you wait for another season? Does it depend entirely on what you can get for Bozak on the trade market?

Not that the Leafs remaining forward prospects are guaranteed all-stars but you probably need to have Leipsic and maybe Rychel in the NHL next year.  Kapanen really shouldn't be playing on the 4th line and Soshnikov likely slots back into the lineup next year.

Trade Bozak + JVR.

Kapanen - Matthews - Hyman
Marner - Nylander - Brown
Soshnikov - Kadri - Komarov
Leipsic - ??? - Martin
Rychel

It's not perfect and someone can probably do it better.

I'd also like to take this moment to point out that Andreas Johnsson finished the year with 27 points (10G, 17A) in his final 32 games of the AHL season.  Hopefully that's a sign that the rust of his concussion is gone and that he is adjusting well to the North American ice.  Another full season and hopefully he ends up being a nice steal.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on April 25, 2017, 04:36:03 PM
We were talking about this in the general thread, but here is the Nylander-specific point made by Babcock at today's presser (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/04/25/mike-babcock-weve-got-to-get-much-deeper-as-an-organization/):

Quote
When you go to the whiteboard this summer, how much change are you expecting, and do you see William Nylander maybe being a center next year?

Babcock: No, Willy is not going to be a center next year, and there will be changes.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on April 26, 2017, 10:15:15 AM
Addendum (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/04/25/mike-babcock-auston-matthews-ive-never-seen-young-guy-quick-fast/) to the Nylander comments about him centering:

Quote
You were asked about Nylander playing center today and you said that won’t happen next year. If it’s not going to happen next year, how do you envision that transition working out in the future, getting Nylander to the center of the ice?

Babcock: What happened already is suddenly in the playoffs he took the right-hand draws and Matty look the left-hand draws. He was good in the faceoff circle. We didn't let that happen at the start. He just graduated into doing that. The way we’re set up right now, with the three centers, I don't need a center right now to get him the amount of minutes he needs to get. He's got better opportunity to play the amount of minutes he needs in offensive situations playing on the wall, at least through next year.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on April 26, 2017, 10:55:29 AM
Addendum (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/04/25/mike-babcock-auston-matthews-ive-never-seen-young-guy-quick-fast/) to the Nylander comments about him centering:

Quote
You were asked about Nylander playing center today and you said that won’t happen next year. If it’s not going to happen next year, how do you envision that transition working out in the future, getting Nylander to the center of the ice?

Babcock: What happened already is suddenly in the playoffs he took the right-hand draws and Matty look the left-hand draws. He was good in the faceoff circle. We didn't let that happen at the start. He just graduated into doing that. The way we’re set up right now, with the three centers, I don't need a center right now to get him the amount of minutes he needs to get. He's got better opportunity to play the amount of minutes he needs in offensive situations playing on the wall, at least through next year.

Yeah, that's a more appropriate response. As long as the team is set up as it currently is, Nylander won't be playing centre.

Nylander went 14 for 24 (58%) in faceoffs during the playoffs. Good the the 2nd best winning percentage among Leafs. Boyle was #1 at 62%, while Kadri and Bozak were both at 52%.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on April 26, 2017, 11:01:15 AM
Addendum (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/04/25/mike-babcock-auston-matthews-ive-never-seen-young-guy-quick-fast/) to the Nylander comments about him centering:

Quote
You were asked about Nylander playing center today and you said that won’t happen next year. If it’s not going to happen next year, how do you envision that transition working out in the future, getting Nylander to the center of the ice?

Babcock: What happened already is suddenly in the playoffs he took the right-hand draws and Matty look the left-hand draws. He was good in the faceoff circle. We didn't let that happen at the start. He just graduated into doing that. The way we’re set up right now, with the three centers, I don't need a center right now to get him the amount of minutes he needs to get. He's got better opportunity to play the amount of minutes he needs in offensive situations playing on the wall, at least through next year.

Yeah, that's a more appropriate response. As long as the team is set up as it currently is, Nylander won't be playing centre.

Nylander went 14 for 24 (58%) in faceoffs during the playoffs. Good the the 2nd best winning percentage among Leafs. Boyle was #1 at 62%, while Kadri and Bozak were both at 52%.

Assuming that Bozak is gone, and you have room for Nylander at center, does Kadri then get his minutes cut if Nylander becomes the 2nd center behind Matthews? 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: louisstamos on April 26, 2017, 11:05:16 AM
Addendum (https://mapleleafshotstove.com/2017/04/25/mike-babcock-auston-matthews-ive-never-seen-young-guy-quick-fast/) to the Nylander comments about him centering:

Quote
You were asked about Nylander playing center today and you said that won’t happen next year. If it’s not going to happen next year, how do you envision that transition working out in the future, getting Nylander to the center of the ice?

Babcock: What happened already is suddenly in the playoffs he took the right-hand draws and Matty look the left-hand draws. He was good in the faceoff circle. We didn't let that happen at the start. He just graduated into doing that. The way we’re set up right now, with the three centers, I don't need a center right now to get him the amount of minutes he needs to get. He's got better opportunity to play the amount of minutes he needs in offensive situations playing on the wall, at least through next year.

Yeah, that's a more appropriate response. As long as the team is set up as it currently is, Nylander won't be playing centre.

Nylander went 14 for 24 (58%) in faceoffs during the playoffs. Good the the 2nd best winning percentage among Leafs. Boyle was #1 at 62%, while Kadri and Bozak were both at 52%.

Assuming that Bozak is gone, and you have room for Nylander at center, does Kadri then get his minutes cut if Nylander becomes the 2nd center behind Matthews?

I would assume that Kadri would still be going head-to-head against the oppositions top line, so probably not.  My guess is Matthews would get Bozak's minutes, and Nylander would then get Matthews' minutes.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on April 26, 2017, 11:11:53 AM
Assuming that Bozak is gone, and you have room for Nylander at center, does Kadri then get his minutes cut if Nylander becomes the 2nd center behind Matthews?

I would assume that Kadri would still be going head-to-head against the oppositions top line, so probably not.  My guess is Matthews would get Bozak's minutes, and Nylander would then get Matthews' minutes.

Matthews' line started pulling away from the pack towards the end of the season (~19 min avg) while Kadri was 18 and Bozak was 16-17*. It was a pretty even schmear for the top 9 otherwise. Whichever line was going best on any given night was getting the ice time.

I would expect Nylander to take over Bozak's role of sheltered offense if Bozak is moved, as he is least suited for hard match ups, but maybe most capable of destroying lesser opposition with aplomb. How the minutes get distributed there is going to be case by case depending on the opposition's build.

* Just ball parking off boxscores, so just treat them as relative values, rather than absolutes.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on April 26, 2017, 11:17:38 AM
Assuming that Bozak is gone, and you have room for Nylander at center, does Kadri then get his minutes cut if Nylander becomes the 2nd center behind Matthews?

As long as they maintain that they want Kadri against the opposition's top centre, Kadri's minutes will be dictated by that.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: RedLeaf on April 26, 2017, 11:21:15 AM
I wouldn't assume Bozak or JVR will be gone next season. In fact, unless a deal for a defenseman comes along that is too good to resist, I'd bet they are both back.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on April 26, 2017, 11:53:16 AM
Here's something I was mulling this morning.

I was doing a bit of reading up on Erik Gudbranson after Britishbulldog mentioned him in the Armchair GM thread, and one note that stood out to me was that he was used to cover for Luongo's blocker-side weakness. Gallant also bemoaned this loss following Gudbranson's trade to the Canucks as he lost his primary blocker-side deterrent.

So that got me thinking about tactics to exploit or defend such weaknesses. I don't have numbers (or access to said numbers), but I'm guessing the blocker side is going to be a point of weakness for just about any goalie, simply due to having more equipment to move on that one side*. As nearly every goalie is a left glove, that basically means attacking from the left wing with a right shot targeting that blocker side should be a shooting percentage boost.

Again, I don't have the numbers, but I'm looking at the success of players like Stamkos, Ovechkin, Kovalchuk, and now Laine, as well as PP D-bombs and lesser snipers in Shea Weber, Brent Burns, PK Subban, Lupul, Jeff O'Neill... I think there's a soft-spot here in the way the game is played.

Would we be better served running Nylander on the left wing? Wouldn't it improve Hyman's game too, to be coming in on the forecheck on his strong side?


* Link (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/hockey/righty-lefty-don-shooting-nhl-puck-article-1.2655568)
Quote
Martin Biron, a former NHL and Rangers goaltender with 230 career wins, confirms [low blocker] is the hardest save for a left-handed catching goalie to make because "goalies are less athletic on the stick side."

The article also mentions that a left shot on the left wing has an open look at left blocker too, but if we're talking clap bombs from the circle (i.e. goaltender in motion), that right shot to the low blocker or top corner is where it's at.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on April 26, 2017, 02:40:25 PM
I think you just solved hockey.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on April 27, 2017, 09:05:14 AM
I think you just solved hockey.

Also, when backchecking, running Nylander on LW puts him on his strong side coming back, and ready to wind up for a rush up the middle (cross over with Matthews).

More fun: If he had two more seasons to work on it, I'm pretty confident Nylander could be the 1RHD we've been dreaming of too. His skating, puck skills, and shot are upper tier, and his puck retrieval is already aces.

www.twitter.com/hockey_ref/status/857420307170304000

Basically if the whole team was
Top line: Nylander - Matthews - Nylander
Second line: Nylander - Matthews - Marner
Sheltered scoring: Matthews - Nylander - Marner
Checking: Marner - Matthews - Marner

I'd be pretty happy
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 01, 2017, 08:41:22 AM
Nylander's going to the World Championships:

https://theleafsnation.com/2017/05/01/william-nylander-to-represent-sweden-in-world-championships/

Team Sweden's roster doesn't look particularly impressive, at least on forward. They've got Hedman, Stralman, OEL, and Klingberg on D but Nylander might very well be their best forward. So it'll be interesting to see how much they rely on him, and whether they use him at centre or wing.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 01, 2017, 08:57:28 AM
Nylander's going to the World Championships:

https://theleafsnation.com/2017/05/01/william-nylander-to-represent-sweden-in-world-championships/

Team Sweden's roster doesn't look particularly impressive, at least on forward. They've got Hedman, Stralman, OEL, and Klingberg on D but Nylander might very well be their best forward. So it'll be interesting to see how much they rely on him, and whether they use him at centre or wing.

With the Sedins being on the tail end of their career, Backstrom and Rackell still in the playoffs (for how much longer?), I wouldn't be surprised to see him centering their first line.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 01, 2017, 09:05:20 AM
With the Sedins being on the tail end of their career, Backstrom and Rackell still in the playoffs (for how much longer?), I wouldn't be surprised to see him centering their first line.

Sedin(s) and Zetterberg both declined too, so Backstrom would be the only centre I think that could bump Nylander from the 1C spot. But even if that happens or if Team Sweden feels like playing him at centre when he's been on the wing all season long doesn't make sense then he still will likely end up being their 1RW.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 01, 2017, 09:45:40 AM
Nylander's going to the World Championships:

https://theleafsnation.com/2017/05/01/william-nylander-to-represent-sweden-in-world-championships/

Team Sweden's roster doesn't look particularly impressive, at least on forward. They've got Hedman, Stralman, OEL, and Klingberg on D but Nylander might very well be their best forward. So it'll be interesting to see how much they rely on him, and whether they use him at centre or wing.

Maybe but I'd give my right ball for any of those D to be on the Leafs.

Well OK perhaps only my left ball for either Stralman or Klingberg.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 01, 2017, 10:46:47 AM
Maybe but I'd give my right ball for any of those D to be on the Leafs.

Well OK perhaps only my left ball for either Stralman or Klingberg.

Yeah, maybe I didn't phrase that properly. They have the best defence in the tournament, and it's not even close.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 01, 2017, 10:59:31 AM
Yeah, maybe I didn't phrase that properly. They have the best defence in the tournament, and it's not even close.

I was always surprised their defence didn't give Canada more trouble in Sochi(even with their weird decisions re: OEL).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 01, 2017, 11:12:48 AM
I was always surprised their defence didn't give Canada more trouble in Sochi(even with their weird decisions re: OEL).

At Sochi? It wasn't just their weird OEL decision though, they also left Hedman and Stralman off their roster and took Tallinder, Oduya, and Ericsson for some reason. It was their World Cup defence that was more stacked since they took both those guys that time around.

But yeah, Sweden is definitely the only nation that has the personnel to match Canada on the blue line.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 04, 2017, 09:12:25 AM
The top six for Sweden at the World Championship is tentatively:
Landeskog - Lindholm - Rask
Nylander - Karlsson - Soderberg

That's not good.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on May 07, 2017, 10:16:55 AM
Willie scored a beauty yesterday.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 08, 2017, 04:12:20 PM
Willie scored a beauty yesterday.

He had a good game (https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/69ng43/nylander_with_three_point_night_for_sweden_vs/).

As a continuation of my ruminations on playing Nylander on the LW, Willy also scored a beauty last year:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2wm1QZPxCc[/youtube]

Obviously, this is a PP situation (did not know he had such a bomb to drop), but it exhibits the deadliness of a Royal Road pass to a shooting side slapper at the blocker circle.

If Nylander were to play the LW, we'd lose out on the catch and release (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKfB4K6eZyg) plays that both Nylander and Matthews excel at, along with the transition through the NZ with sticks forward. Nothing prevents Nylander from circling to the left wing on the cycle though.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 14, 2017, 07:37:07 PM
www.twitter.com/aj_ranger/status/863840539271188480

Even when he isn't told to play centre, it happens anyway.

He had two (https://streamable.com/qrioy) against the Danes.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: sickbeast on May 14, 2017, 08:43:57 PM
Wow that's a ridiculous goal.  :o
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 16, 2017, 09:55:06 AM
www.twitter.com/cmoresport/status/864428282149617669

Another Backstrom to Nylander goal. This one is pretty much all Willy.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on May 16, 2017, 11:10:29 AM
I don't normally do this, and I know that I am asking alot, but if you are up there Superman, please don't let the Leafs trade Matthews, Marner, or Nylander.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 16, 2017, 11:22:12 AM
I don't normally do this, and I know that I am asking alot, but if you are up there Superman, please don't let the Leafs trade Matthews, Marner, or Nylander.


https://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/2017/05/12/leafs-progress-earns-presidential-seal-of-approval-dimanno.html

Quote
Because this is Toronto, where hockey anxiety stirs just below the surface and speculation is endless, there were junctures where oh-oh moments seized the city and rumours abounded. Example: Babcock gently calling out William Nylander for playing too soft. That got the call-in shows chattering about a possible trade.

“I didn’t see it as a big deal,” Shanahan shrugs. “I thought the whole city should just relax. He’s coaching. He doesn’t dislike him. It wasn’t punishment. Babs is a phenomenal communicator as to what he wants. There’s no gray. What really impressed me is how, whether we won or lost, Babs would come in the next morning with enthusiasm about what today is about and what tomorrow is about. I think players want that kind of direction. It’s hard sometimes. It’s not easy playing for someone who always demands your best. But I also think it’s hard to play for a coach when you’re not sure what he wants from you. It might be more comfortable playing for certain other guys. But in order to win a championship you have to play for somebody who pushes you to play your best.’’

At this point, Shanahan pulls out his phone and scrolls around looking for a specific photo. He finds it: 14-year-old son Jack wearing a Nylander jersey.

“How could I ever [possibly] trade this player?” he laughs.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 18, 2017, 08:35:45 PM
www.twitter.com/cmoresport/status/865289203898175492
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on May 18, 2017, 09:25:13 PM
Clearly, Nylander is learning from Matthews.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 19, 2017, 09:54:24 AM
www.twitter.com/cmoresport/status/865289203898175492

Man whoever that guy was, I'd love to get him on the Leafs.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2017, 10:37:04 AM
www.twitter.com/aj_ranger/status/865526014620819456

I'm calling it now: Nylander's getting 30 goals and 70 points next season.

The Leafs would be smart to get him signed to an extension as soon as possible after July 1st.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on May 19, 2017, 10:50:35 AM
I'm calling it now: Nylander's getting 30 goals and 70 points next season.

The Leafs would be smart to get him signed to an extension as soon as possible after July 1st.

Honestly, watching him this past season and in those highlights, and looking at his draft calss (which, granted, is still too early to make definitive judgments on) and you wonder how he fell to 8th instead of going in the top 3. There's a legit argument that the only players who deserved to go before him are Ekblad and Draisaitl - and, in the case of the latter, possibly not by a large margin.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on May 19, 2017, 10:53:52 AM
Who's 19?  Him too please
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2017, 10:54:37 AM
I'm calling it now: Nylander's getting 30 goals and 70 points next season.

The Leafs would be smart to get him signed to an extension as soon as possible after July 1st.

Honestly, watching him this past season and in those highlights, and looking at his draft calss (which, granted, is still too early to make definitive judgments on) and you wonder how he fell to 8th instead of going in the top 3. There's a legit argument that the only players who deserved to go before him are Ekblad and Draisaitl - and, in the case of the latter, possibly not by a large margin.

I think if he came over to the CHL for his draft season and produced like he probably could then he would have gone top-5. Corey Pronman had him ranked 3rd in his draft rankings, and I remember a few times where he talked about him challenging for 1st overall.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 19, 2017, 11:01:49 AM
Honestly, watching him this past season and in those highlights, and looking at his draft class (which, granted, is still too early to make definitive judgments on) and you wonder how he fell to 8th instead of going in the top 3. There's a legit argument that the only players who deserved to go before him are Ekblad and Draisaitl - and, in the case of the latter, possibly not by a large margin.

Some possible reasons:
- Playing in Europe (junior Swedish and then garbage SHL team)
- Some scouts soured on his perceived attitude (selfish, lazy)
- Half the league was still thinking pre-04 lockout in terms of playstyle the way the Ducks, Boston, and LA won
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2017, 11:03:20 AM
Off-topic, but since his name was brought up, I'll be very curious to see how Aaron Ekblad's career progresses from here. He didn't really have the greatest season (although obviously Florida's team/organization struggled as a whole), and I think Brian Campbell didn't get enough credit for his effect on Ekblad during his first 2 seasons. And of course now he's got concussion issues too.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 19, 2017, 11:06:36 AM
While writing for CanucksArmy, Cam wrote up a pre-draft profile (https://canucksarmy.com/2014/06/24/canucks-army-draft-prospect-profile-3-william-nylander/) with the hopes that Nylander would fall to the Canucks.

Cam followed Nylander to the Leafs a few months after the draft.

Pronman's profile (http://insider.espn.com/nhl/insider/story/_/id/10933126/aaron-ekblad-sam-bennett-lead-top-100-draft-prospects-nhl-draft-2014) on Nylander (which just made the cut before going full insider!):
Quote
3. William Nylander | RW | Modo (SHL)
DOB: 5/1/96 | 2013-14 stats: 22 GP, 1 G, 6 A, 6 PIM

The son of longtime NHLer Michael Nylander may be the most gifted pure offensive talent in the draft. William had a so-so first half when he struggled to find a role, but had a tremendous second half. Because of that turnaround, I've heard NHL scouts rank him anywhere from No. 2 overall to the 20s. He was over a point per game pace with Sodertalje in the SHL-2, setting a season record for points by an under-18 player, and played around 20 minutes per game with Modo down the stretch. Nylander's pucks skills are elite, as he can be described as "an artist" by some scouts in terms of how well he controls the puck, and the unique plays he makes. Nylander's hockey sense is fantastic as well, in terms of his vision, and offensive intellect. You combine that with a pretty good top gear and Nylander can create all sorts of havoc offensively. Nylander can deke a defender out, make a highlight-reel pass, speed by players. He's not the biggest guy (5-11, 181 pounds), his defensive play needs work, and he can try to do too much sometimes.

Ranking explanation: Nylander has a better skill level than Reinhart, but Reinhart is better physically, and worlds better defensively. Nylander has more upside than Reinhart, but carries more risk in terms of his all-around game. Reinhart's probably a better player right now, but Nylander is in his 17-year-old season (as compared to Reinhart being in his 18-year-old season) and Nylander seems to have more room to grow. For the latter reason, being that I think he has so much upside, and it's easier to close the gap defensively than offensively for an under-20 player, I give the edge to Nylander.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 19, 2017, 11:55:20 AM
Honestly, watching him this past season and in those highlights, and looking at his draft calss (which, granted, is still too early to make definitive judgments on) and you wonder how he fell to 8th instead of going in the top 3.

Well, you figure it's a pretty standard example of teams overrating size combined with the somewhat understandable instinct to try and get #1 C's and D's out of your high draft picks.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bullfrog on May 19, 2017, 12:21:21 PM
My lord it would be sweet to have Backstrom on this team. That give-and-go in tight to the net was a thing of beauty.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 19, 2017, 02:15:34 PM
My lord it would be sweet to have Backstrom on this team. That give-and-go in tight to the net was a thing of beauty.

You know, Backstrom's darn good, but for the first time in awhile I don't really much 'centre-envy' at the moment.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Kaberle15 on May 19, 2017, 05:02:03 PM
Who's 19?  Him too please
Isn't Nicklas Backstrom ?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: caveman on May 19, 2017, 06:17:02 PM
wasn't Don Cherry bashing the Leafs when they drafted Nylander instead of Nick Ritchie ?  :o
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: bustaheims on May 19, 2017, 10:01:31 PM
wasn't Don Cherry bashing the Leafs when they drafted Nylander instead of Nick Ritchie ?  :o

You know how a lot of us like to call Don Cherry out for being out of touch? This is a prime example. He most definitely did bash the Leafs for not taking Ritchie. He was wrong. So very wrong.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Rebel_1812 on May 20, 2017, 07:57:07 PM
Richie has 14 goals and 28 points in his second year and bring a physical element Nylander doesnt.  This is selective 20-20.  What about the Tlusty over Chris Stewart?  The 2006 draft shows the opposite result.  The truth is the draft is a gamble.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bender on May 21, 2017, 01:24:30 AM
Nick Ritchie never produced at a remarkable level in junior. Nylander was breaking records in his age bracket in Sweden.

I don't think Tlusty and Stewart are really comparable.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 21, 2017, 05:55:56 AM

I'm not really sure what Chris Stewart vs. Jiri Tlusty proves. Both guys ended up being pretty similarly mediocre.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Andy on May 21, 2017, 06:00:17 AM
Besides the fact that one can find a way better comparison than Stewart vs. Tlusty (The former has 300 points in 600 games, the latter 180 in 450), the point is Cherry was adamantly against Nylander strictly because of size and nationality and for Ritchie solely based on those factors. And if the truth is that the draft is a gamble, it makes no sense for Cherry to immediately bash the Leafs for their choice.

Regardless, there are a plethora of reasons as to why Cherry is completely out of touch and this is merely one minor example.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on May 21, 2017, 06:07:43 AM
Besides the fact that one can find a way better comparison than Stewart vs. Tlusty (The former has 300 points in 600 games, the latter 180 in 450), the point is Cherry was adamantly against Nylander strictly because of size and nationality and for Ritchie solely based on those factors. And if the truth is that the draft is a gamble, it makes no sense for Cherry to immediately bash the Leafs for their choice.

Regardless, there are a plethora of reasons as to why Cherry is completely out of touch and this is merely one minor example.

In addition to that, the idea that this is hindsight only is pretty patently false. The 2014 draft thread is still around and a lot of us were terrified the Leafs would take Richie(this was only a year after the Leafs signed the Clarkson deal in a similar attempt to inject physicality into the lineup).

The Leafs in 2014 desperately needed high end offensive talent. They didn't need to get bigger/tougher.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: L K on May 21, 2017, 06:54:41 AM
Not to mention that 61 points is probably just a little bit better than 28 points with size.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 21, 2017, 08:39:53 AM
If I'm getting free players, a la the draft, I'm going to prioritize characteristics that I know will be a) valuable to winning; b) expensive on the open market (usually the same thing); c) hard to teach and develop.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: crazyperfectdevil on May 21, 2017, 01:02:27 PM
If it's okay for cherry to go back and show videos showing every time he was right with a claim then i think it's also okay for people to point out every time he was wrong.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 21, 2017, 06:27:42 PM
www.twitter.com/TLNdc/status/866412883764183040

This is all the fire emojis
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on May 22, 2017, 01:11:59 AM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bates on May 22, 2017, 09:08:54 AM
I would love to see Nylander smoke Andersen like that!!!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 22, 2017, 09:10:16 AM

I love this photo!

Here it is in action:
www.twitter.com/russianmachine/status/866410946696183808
www.twitter.com/TLNdc/status/866411253404753924
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on May 22, 2017, 06:26:15 PM

Happiness is concussion.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Britishbulldog on May 22, 2017, 10:54:30 PM

I'm not really sure what Chris Stewart vs. Jiri Tlusty proves. Both guys ended up being pretty similarly mediocre.

Chris Stewart      :-\    :(
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 23, 2017, 09:43:31 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcgYoiWAAI27ev.jpg)
Hail Hydra
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on May 23, 2017, 09:48:07 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcgYoiWAAI27ev.jpg)
Hail Hydra

"Don't worry, Lundqvist won't be a problem for us next year..."
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on May 23, 2017, 09:49:00 AM
Hail Hydra

"Don't worry, Lundqvist won't be a problem for us next year..."

"Always remember, I'm Auston's favorite."
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 23, 2017, 09:53:02 AM
Hail Hydra

"Don't worry, Lundqvist won't be a problem for us next year..."

"Always remember, I'm Auston's favorite."

I was also considering: Don't tell Auston.

Or maybe: Good job seducing Nate.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on May 23, 2017, 10:45:29 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcgYoiWAAI27ev.jpg)
Hail Hydra

Marner be like "I'm so glad we took you inside of Richtie"
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 23, 2017, 10:47:51 AM
Marner be like "I'm so glad we took you inside of Richtie"

I'm quoting this before you get a chance to edit.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on May 23, 2017, 01:15:40 PM
Marner be like "I'm so glad we took you inside of Richtie"

I'm quoting this before you get a chance to edit.

Damn, I didn't even notice the mistake after you pointed it out  ;D ;D So embarrassed, yet now I won't even change it.  ;)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 23, 2017, 01:46:12 PM
Marner be like "I'm so glad we took you inside of Richtie"

I'm quoting this before you get a chance to edit.

Damn, I didn't even notice the mistake after you pointed it out  ;D ;D So embarrassed, yet now I won't even change it.  ;)

At first I was just like, oh he misspelled Ritchie. And then it got good.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on May 23, 2017, 03:21:24 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DAcgYoiWAAI27ev.jpg)
Hail Hydra

haha that's great. Because even though Willy has the Tre Kronor on and Mitch has the red maple leaf... the hidden brotherhood is the fricken Toronto Maple Leafs.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: lamajama on May 23, 2017, 06:22:47 PM
They were just spitballing on Overdrive today on IF the Leafs were to trade Willie, it's obvious now
that since he's gotten so much better it would not be a trade for a 3-4 D man but a trade for a legit
#1 D man such as the old Shanahan for Pronger trade years ago.

Personally.....if they trade Willie, if it's not a trade that anyone with 3 brain cells would make (so that
would be pretty much a no-go) then that might finally be the last nail in the coffin of my Leaf fandom.
We have had such a dearth of superstar/league envy type of players that we get THREE and then trade one?

He is developing into a ultra-elite type offensive player. I just hate to hear any trade talk with him involved.

The big 3 should be untouchable and despite the "Gretzky was traded" stuff, I'd be hard pressed to accept
any scenario that involved Willie or Mitch.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on May 23, 2017, 06:33:35 PM
The big 3 should be untouchable and despite the "Gretzky was traded" stuff, I'd be hard pressed to accept
any scenario that involved Willie or Mitch.

I'm always wrong on these things, but I doubt they'd accept the first overall pick this year for him. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 24, 2017, 07:58:44 AM
Per lamajama's post above, Craig Button had an epiphany about his burgeoning crush on Nylander.

http://www.tsn.ca/video/button-the-only-way-the-leafs-should-trade-nylander-is-for-a-1-d-man~1130813

He goes a bit overboard as usual. The small sample size hot take is strong. Still not hopping off the trade-Nylander talk, but also pretty happy to say Matthews-Nylander for 10 years.

Even more crazy in the morning, but it's the kind of crazy I like.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/who-is-the-next-great-centre-for-leafs-marner-or-nylander~1130340
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 24, 2017, 08:06:52 AM
Per lamajama's post above, Craig Button had an epiphany about his burgeoning crush on Nylander.

http://www.tsn.ca/video/button-the-only-way-the-leafs-should-trade-nylander-is-for-a-1-d-man~1130813


How are they STILL so obsessed with trading him?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 24, 2017, 08:19:06 AM
Haha... on the one hand he is so much "better than Taylor Hall, it's frightening" and he and Matthews are generational talents...

on the other... *clicks *clicks *clicks

Even Popeye's bicep is happy to see Nylander.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 24, 2017, 08:25:35 AM
Haha... on the one hand he is so much "better than Taylor Hall, it's frightening" and he and Matthews are generational talents...

on the other... *clicks *clicks *clicks

Even Popeye's bicep is happy to see Nylander.

They had McKenzie on about 45 minutes after that. Tweeted that he'd be talking about Dubas so I checked in. He didn't really say anything new at all but they asked him about Nylander too right after. They said something like "FOR SOME REASON his name keeps coming up in trade talks" (emphasis obviously mine) and asked if the Leafs ever seriously considered trading him during the season. McKenzie basically politely called them both idiots and said that all Nylander trade talk was entirely media-driven and the Leafs never considered moving him once.

I stopped listening after that but I'm assuming they immediately started discussing the pros of trading him for TWO Brandon Montour's after McKenzie left.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on May 24, 2017, 08:28:13 AM
I wonder what the Leafs could get if they throw in Matthews?  Ahh heck why not throw in Marner too?
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 24, 2017, 01:02:36 PM
They had McKenzie on about 45 minutes after that. Tweeted that he'd be talking about Dubas so I checked in. He didn't really say anything new at all but they asked him about Nylander too right after. They said something like "FOR SOME REASON his name keeps coming up in trade talks" (emphasis obviously mine) and asked if the Leafs ever seriously considered trading him during the season. McKenzie basically politely called them both idiots and said that all Nylander trade talk was entirely media-driven and the Leafs never considered moving him once.

I stopped listening after that but I'm assuming they immediately started discussing the pros of trading him for TWO Brandon Montour's after McKenzie left.

Here's the aforementioned segment for those that wanted to hear Bob's dulcet tones.

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/mckenzie-i-don-t-believe-leafs-considered-trading-nylander-1.760005
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 24, 2017, 01:19:27 PM
How are they STILL so obsessed with trading him?

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/toronto-1050/poulin-nylander-only-scratching-surface-of-his-potential-1.759983

Poulin's first words on the matter (6:02):
Quote
Landsberg: Is there a defenceman in the NHL that you would trade Nylander for if you were the Maple Leafs?

Poulin: I wouldn't trade William Nylander right now.

Landsberg: Well, that was a buzzkill.

Worth the listen for the small behind the scenes view of some of the discussions the management team had at the 2014 draft. Thommie Bergman really went to bat.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Highlander on May 24, 2017, 04:40:35 PM
McKenzie basically politely called them both idiots and said that all Nylander trade talk was "entirely media-driven" and the Leafs never considered moving him once.

Sort of sounds like what is happening to the Donald ;)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 26, 2017, 10:46:40 AM

https://www.nhl.com/rangers/news/rangers-lundqvist-sweden-gold-its-a-tough-feeling-to-describe/c-289597014

Quote
"I saw him coming and I thought maybe a little jump," Lundqvist said laughing, "but he jumped so high there was no way to stand my ground.

"My first thought was 'I got this,' and my second thought was 'I don't got this,'" he added. "Then you just pile on there and everyone is just screaming."
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 29, 2017, 08:52:23 PM
https://www.reddit.com/r/leafs/comments/6e3qks/ryan_stimson_comparing_the_5v5_playing_styles_of/

According to data from the Passing Project, William Nylander is currently the more complete player of the Big Three. Matthews exceeds him in shot generation and high danger chances, but Nylander's overall impact is greater in every other category, and quite close where Matthews excels. Of course Nylander is the furthest along in his development, so this isn't an indictment against anyone.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Kaberle15 on May 30, 2017, 10:09:14 AM
Something is odd in that... Nylander has 520 TOI 5v5 ?

Matthews 290 ?

I think that someone mess up that chart...
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 30, 2017, 10:14:23 AM
Something is odd in that... Nylander has 520 TOI 5v5 ?

Matthews 290 ?

I think that someone mess up that chart...

It covers multiple seasons, i.e. the last three if applicable.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on May 30, 2017, 10:58:04 AM
Something is odd in that... Nylander has 520 TOI 5v5 ?

Matthews 290 ?

I think that someone mess up that chart...

It covers multiple seasons, i.e. the last three if applicable.

That... and, those charts use stats that were taken by manually tracking games. It's a lot of work, and it's basically impossible to do every single game of the season for every single team. Especially considering the season ended somewhat recently. I imagine the data that they have from this season is mostly from the first half only so far.

All 3 of Matthews, Nylander, and Marner played a bit over 1000 minutes of 5v5 play this past season, so this data is from about 25-30%-ish of this season (plus most of last season for Nylander).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on May 30, 2017, 11:28:50 AM
In that span of time, it also shows how good Kadri is, and how much further our Big Three have to go to even be in the same conversation as Crosby, Backstrom, McDavid.

This sort of data would be way less tedious if they followed through with that data tracker pucks and jerseys plan. Solves stupid offside and goal-line reviews too.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on June 06, 2017, 03:39:00 PM
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/should-leafs-lock-up-nylander-long-term-or-sign-him-to-a-bridge-deal~1140513

Quote
Dreger: Yeah, I mean, I'm always hesitant to try and jump into the mindset of Lou Lamoriello because, more often than not, I'm wrong when I'm guessing on what he might do. All I know, Andi, is how William Nylander is viewed by his head coach and those around the organization, and he's highly regarded -- surprisingly so. Maybe that sounds unfair given how talented this young player is, but they've got a lot of time for Nylander and they see him as a real big part of the Toronto Maple Leafs success in the future.

So in saying all that, it makes sense to me that they'd want to lock him up on a longer term, but there are other pieces to the puzzle. Obviously Auston Matthews is a lock. They'll sign him to eight years as quick as they can coming off the entry level contract, and they think Mitch Marner is a star in the NHL. So, the problem you have with all of that is they need the salary cap to go up a lot higher than what it's gone up before they can consider any of that stuff with Nylander, or Marner, or Matthews, or some of the other pieces they're going to want to hold on to.

Lol.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on June 06, 2017, 03:43:28 PM
Quote
Dreger: All I know, Andi, is how William Nylander is viewed by his head coach and those around the organization, and he's highly regarded -- surprisingly so.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/PprHjp7DCw4BW/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on June 06, 2017, 03:55:53 PM
I could here him physically straining to not spin the conversation overtly back to "Leafs must trade Nylander... gaaaaaarrhhhh". Right to the edge really, and then found the salary cap excuse.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on July 23, 2017, 11:11:15 PM
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/07/23/wonderful-gifs-of-wonderful-william-nylander/

If we didn't have Matthews, I could see him taking 1C in a couple of years. He'd also be a really good 1RD if he were so inclined, and a killer 1LW.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 23, 2017, 11:53:20 PM
https://theleafsnation.com/2017/07/23/wonderful-gifs-of-wonderful-william-nylander/

If we didn't have Matthews, I could see him taking 1C in a couple of years. He'd also be a really good 1RD if he were so inclined, and a killer 1LW.

Some may remember that WN was on the cover of THN (I think still wearing 62) some months before we got Matthews with a caption to the effect "Bright Blue Skies in Toronto."  If we hadn't gotten Matthews (which of course didn't not happen because I willed it so  8)) WN would be our 1C and none of this idiotic dregertalk would have happened.

Well, maybe it would have.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 23, 2017, 11:58:29 PM
In a related debating point, I would argue that Nylander's MVP/gold at the worlds has vaulted him past Marner as our second-best player.

That is, I would argue it but I'd rather just assert it without evidence because I'm lazy.  Also, my gut is that his ceiling is higher than Mitch's.

Admittedly, I'm a sucker for skilled Swedish forwards who wear prime numbers.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 24, 2017, 12:03:36 AM

I think there's probably some recency bias there. Marner had a pretty good WC's himself.

That said, if I absolutely had to trade one of the three...yeah, I probably trade Marner.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on July 24, 2017, 09:31:57 AM
I think we'll see this play out accordingly in the prospect rankings the blogs run the rest of this summer (Nylander > Marner).

Caveats are that Nylander has had one additional year on Marner, and three seasons more playing against adult men rather than Juniors, so of course his development currently tracks higher.

What Marner did this year was pretty amazing, and tied Nylander for points in fewer games played -- the caveat here being Marner had two people to pass to, and average to easy matchups, vs Nylander who had one (generational) recipient and harder matchups for the latter half of the season.

Datarink (http://datarink.com)
(http://i.imgur.com/qTFKOpD.png)

HERO (http://ownthepuck.blogspot.ca)
(http://i.imgur.com/EPTuTiz.png)

We have both  8) as well as Matthews  ;D
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 24, 2017, 09:34:41 AM
I think we'll see this play out accordingly in the prospect rankings the blogs run the rest of this summer (Nylander > Marner).

Caveats are that Nylander has had one additional year on Marner, and three seasons more playing against adult men rather than Juniors, so of course his development currently tracks higher.

So if you had to trade one you'd go with...
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on July 24, 2017, 09:44:34 AM
So if you had to trade one you'd go with...

I'd trade Marner if we absolutely had to, but what situation would ever warrant that? Would be hilarious to see Cherry's conniption though.

There's too much value in Nylander's ability to play top-line minutes of all three forward positions, without being a defensive liability.

Nylander is:
- faster (with less apparent effort)
- waaaay better at shooting
- like 95% of Marner's passing creativity but with way more zip
- more patient with the puck
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 24, 2017, 09:55:37 AM
I'd trade Marner if we absolutely had to, but what situation would ever warrant that? Would be hilarious to see Cherry's conniption though.

None, it's mainly just a hypothetical based on, I guess, Nylander looking like the better player now compared to the points you were making about Marner being younger and relatively inexperienced. Comparing their ceilings, essentially.

That said, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the question being in front of the Leafs if in the next couple of years:

A) They look to have hit a wall because of a lack of top flight defensemen

B) Kapanen and/or a couple of the C level forward prospects develop better than expected.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 24, 2017, 10:05:20 AM
I'd trade Marner if we absolutely had to, but what situation would ever warrant that? Would be hilarious to see Cherry's conniption though.

None

But Dreger.

dregerdregerdreger
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on July 24, 2017, 10:07:42 AM
None, it's mainly just a hypothetical based on, I guess, Nylander looking like the better player now compared to the points you were making about Marner being younger and relatively inexperienced. Comparing their ceilings, essentially.

That said, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of the question being in front of the Leafs if in the next couple of years:

A) They look to have hit a wall because of a lack of top flight defensemen

B) Kapanen and/or a couple of the C level forward prospects develop better than expected.

If B happens, those are the players I'd dangle for a chance to solve A with an RFA in a logjam, a lesser Seth Jones - Ryan Johansen trade for more chances at a defender standing out. There are a couple of teams like Nashville and Anaheim that are defensemen factories at the draft that won't give us their best, but have no room for up and comers either (both in the other conference for us to boot). Anaheim in particular will need cheap scorers to augment Rakell as Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler crash, locking up all their space for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 24, 2017, 10:17:37 AM
If B happens, those are the players I'd dangle for a chance to solve A with an RFA in a logjam, a lesser Seth Jones - Ryan Johansen trade for more chances at a defender standing out. There are a couple of teams like Nashville and Anaheim that are defensemen factories at the draft that won't give us their best, but have no room for up and comers either (both in the other conference for us to boot). Anaheim in particular will need cheap scorers to augment Rakell as Getzlaf, Perry and Kesler crash, locking up all their space for the foreseeable future.

Nobody would want to trade any of the big three in that situation but you're probably not making that sort of trade without doing it, no matter how many C level prospects develop. No team has an excess of #1 defensemen lying around or even prospects with a solid chance of becoming one and in a couple years time you're past the point where you want to wait around to see if anyone becomes one.

Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on July 24, 2017, 10:37:14 AM
Nobody would want to trade any of the big three in that situation but you're probably not making that sort of trade without doing it, no matter how many C level prospects develop. No team has an excess of #1 defensemen lying around or even prospects with a solid chance of becoming one and in a couple years time you're past the point where you want to wait around to see if anyone becomes one.

I'm not sure we could ever trade for a surefire #1D, but I know there are full top-4s and prospects knocking on the doors. Marner or Nylander would both be exceedingly expensive (very much worth it) for a team in a situation like Nashville/Anaheim; but an overachieving prospect being suppressed by the internal cap hit tiers in our system up against Marner/Nylander would be easily achievable for them.

Let's say we lock up Brown for 4 years at 3.25M in August and he somehow nets 25G next season (ya, PP bumper!). I think he'd be prime tradebait for Montour or someone of similar ilk and situation.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 24, 2017, 10:49:17 AM
I'm not sure we could ever trade for a surefire #1D, but I know there are full top-4s and prospects knocking on the doors. Marner or Nylander would both be exceedingly expensive (very much worth it) for a team in a situation like Nashville/Anaheim; but an overachieving prospect being suppressed by the internal cap hit tiers in our system up against Marner/Nylander would be easily achievable for them.

I don't think any team ever has a top 4 that is full to the point that really top flight defensive prospects get traded on the cheap either. Nashville would have been a prime example but they still didn't let Seth Jones go for a couple of 20 goal/40 point guys, they got a 23 year old 70 point C.

Also, if Nashville in the next few years thinks any of their current prospects are the type who can step in and perform at an elite level they're just as likely to look to trade someone like Ekholm and make room for that prospect in their top 4 as they are to trade that prospect because Ekholm(or the equivalent) is just as likely to return Brown-level forwards. I think a team trading a prospect who is just about NHL ready instead of someone like Ekholm is a pretty solid sign they don't think that prospect will be as good as that defenseman which to me is an indication that the prospect isn't the sort of answer I'm talking about.

If the Leafs reach a point where they look around and think they need to improve their defense I think it's pretty undeniable that being open to trade someone like Marner will open many more doors than a much less valuable player, or combination of much less valuable players, would. Whether or not they choose to pursue that is a fair discussion but I don't think we can pretend that you could cobble together something that builds that sort of value in the aggregate.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on July 24, 2017, 11:02:18 AM
I don't think any team ever has a top 4 that is full to the point that really top flight defensive prospects get traded on the cheap either. Nashville would have been a prime example but they still didn't let Seth Jones go for a couple of 20 goal/40 point guys, they got a 23 year old 70 point C.

Also, if Nashville in the next few years thinks any of their current prospects are the type who can step in and perform at an elite level they're just as likely to look to trade someone like Ekholm and make room for that prospect in their top 4 as they are to trade that prospect because Ekholm(or the equivalent) is just as likely to return Brown-level forwards. I think a team trading a prospect who is just about NHL ready instead of someone like Ekholm is a pretty solid sign they don't think that prospect will be as good as that defenseman which to me is an indication that the prospect isn't the sort of answer I'm talking about.

If the Leafs reach a point where they look around and think they need to improve their defense I think it's pretty undeniable that being open to trade someone like Marner will open many more doors than a much less valuable player, or combination of much less valuable players, would. Whether or not they choose to pursue that is a fair discussion but I don't think we can pretend that you could cobble together something that builds that sort of value in the aggregate.

Clearly I forgot that Johansen was a (one-time) 70-pter. I even looked at this hockeydb!

Funny you should bring up Ekholm. Of the top-4 from Nashville I'd take that's not Subban (who is expensive and getting on the old side), it'd be him. I'd be over the moon if we got Ekholm for a Brown-level prospect.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 24, 2017, 11:06:34 AM
Funny you should bring up Ekholm. Of the top-4 from Nashville I'd take that's not Subban (who is expensive and getting on the old side), it'd be him. I'd be over the moon if we got Ekholm for a Brown-level prospect.

I'm sure. But if rumours are true Ekholm is/was the sticking point in the Duchene negotiations. Defensemen don't come cheap.

So I guess the hypothetical situation I'm describing is one where, pretty simply, the level of defenseman the Leafs think they need isn't the kind they can get with lesser players. I wouldn't say that's a certainty or even necessarily a likelihood but I can't rule it out as a possibility either.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on July 24, 2017, 11:14:46 AM
Funny you should bring up Ekholm. Of the top-4 from Nashville I'd take that's not Subban (who is expensive and getting on the old side), it'd be him. I'd be over the moon if we got Ekholm for a Brown-level prospect.

I'm sure. But if rumours are true Ekholm is/was the sticking point in the Duchene negotiations. Defensemen don't come cheap.

So I guess the hypothetical situation I'm describing is one where, pretty simply, the level of defenseman the Leafs think they need isn't the kind they can get with lesser players. I wouldn't say that's a certainty or even necessarily a likelihood but I can't rule it out as a possibility either.

Yeah, I see your point, and it sounds like my hope is not likely. I can't bank on a GM having the smarts to land such a player (1D) and be dumb enough to let him go for beans at the same time.

I didn't hear about that Duchene thing either (but I also think Sakic and Poile are both pretty stubborn about their valuations).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 24, 2017, 11:34:29 AM
We could just solve this problem by doing what Howard Berger just suggested today: convert Nylander to a defenceman.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/12msOFU8oL1eww/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on July 24, 2017, 11:40:46 AM
We could just solve this problem by doing what Howard Berger just suggested today: convert Nylander to a defenceman.

I've jokingly suggested that before, and MuchTruculence waxes poetic about it frequently. Gardiner-Nylander would be epic.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on July 24, 2017, 12:33:35 PM
We could just solve this problem by doing what Howard Berger just suggested today: convert Nylander to a defenceman.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/12msOFU8oL1eww/giphy.gif)

dregerdregerdreger
bergerbergerberger
dregerbergerdregerbergerdregerberger
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: riff raff on July 24, 2017, 12:57:44 PM
We could just solve this problem by doing what Howard Berger just suggested today: convert Nylander to a defenceman.


The Reverse Kaberle!!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: princedpw on July 24, 2017, 01:09:43 PM
We could just solve this problem by doing what Howard Berger just suggested today: convert Nylander to a defenceman.


The Reverse Kaberle!!

+1

lol
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on July 25, 2017, 03:46:48 PM
We could just solve this problem by doing what Howard Berger just suggested today: convert Nylander to a defenceman.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/12msOFU8oL1eww/giphy.gif)

Nylander on D, move Andersen up to 3rd line center and convert Gauthier to our starting goalie.  Stanley Cup guaranteed.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bill_Berg on July 25, 2017, 04:27:27 PM
We could just solve this problem by doing what Howard Berger just suggested today: convert Nylander to a defenceman.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/12msOFU8oL1eww/giphy.gif)

Nylander on D, move Andersen up to 3rd line center and convert Gauthier to our starting goalie.  Stanley Cup guaranteed.

Matthews should probably replace Babcock behind the bench and put Babcock in the Carlton costume. Fire the current mascot. Then it will be a threepeat. E5.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on July 25, 2017, 10:11:49 PM
We could just solve this problem by doing what Howard Berger just suggested today: convert Nylander to a defenceman.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/12msOFU8oL1eww/giphy.gif)

Nylander on D, move Andersen up to 3rd line center and convert Gauthier to our starting goalie.  Stanley Cup guaranteed.

Matthews should probably replace Babcock behind the bench and put Babcock in the Carlton costume. Fire the current mascot. Then it will be a threepeat. E5.

Brian Papineau inserted at #1 Center, Matthews to equipment manager and Lou Lamorriello top-4 D. Minimum 8-peat.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on August 15, 2017, 10:27:41 PM
https://theathletic.com/39765/2017/02/22/video-room-can-william-nylander-play-centre-for-the-maple-leafs/

So you think you can centre?

Jack Han goes over some key habits Babcock wants to instill in his centres (a la Datsyuk).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on August 31, 2017, 09:55:26 PM
These Nylander training videos popped up on reddit.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BYA_FwUHuSd/
https://www.instagram.com/p/BXvJD43DLvG/

It's not as circus crazy as Marner's video, but you can see the work he puts into routinely dangling 3 defenders down low. The difference between him and the others in the video (including his brother) is quite obvious (being older and more experienced being only part of the equation).
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Bender on September 01, 2017, 03:30:52 PM
Man can he ever dance.

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Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on September 01, 2017, 03:38:42 PM
Man can he ever dance.

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His ability to alude players along the boards and hang onto the puck is so underrated.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Frank E on September 01, 2017, 04:25:55 PM
Man can he ever dance.

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His ability to alude players along the boards and hang onto the puck is so underrated.

It's those quick 180's that he does in tight, so fast.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on September 08, 2017, 09:14:48 AM
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/how-big-a-cap-hit-is-leafs-nylander-worth~1203775

TSN re-hires Mike Johnson and immediately starts to make sense again.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on October 05, 2017, 09:06:18 AM
I really hope the Leafs are putting the finishing touches on a Nylander contract extension.   With McDavid, Eichel, Draisaitl and Ehlers all done, I'd be happy if they could lock up Willy to $6.5M over the long haul. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on October 05, 2017, 09:35:48 AM
I remember that play, Willy's like "sick of playing defence, got the puck back, LET'S DO THIS."
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on October 22, 2017, 12:12:51 PM
Some great clips of Willy in this segment.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on October 25, 2017, 09:43:41 AM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/big-read-maple-leafs-risked-drafting-william-nylander/

I really enjoyed this article for the pictures.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: cabber24 on October 25, 2017, 09:50:25 AM
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/big-read-maple-leafs-risked-drafting-william-nylander/

I really enjoyed this article for the pictures.
I don't like the public shaming of his dad. I don't think it's productive in anyway or even that interesting. If anything it's probably a determent to William's development. If I were him I would find this article very distracting. Shoddy article, might have to consider that Athletic subscription.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: mr grieves on November 12, 2017, 12:38:48 AM
Seems to be caught in a funk. Now that Marner & c. are going again, I wonder if it'd be a good idea to cycle Nylander through the 4th line and get him some easy minutes to get his game going again.

When Matthews is back:

Marleau-Matthews-Hyman
Komarov-Kadri-Brown
JVR-Bozak-Marner
Martin-Nylander-Leivo
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on November 16, 2017, 09:55:23 PM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 01, 2017, 08:49:45 AM
Nylander has 6 points on a 4-game point streak. He's 3rd on the team in points behind Matthews and Kadri (so he leads all wingers). He leads the team in assists. And he's only shooting 7.5%.

edit: Oh he's 55.1% on face-offs too.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on December 01, 2017, 09:35:45 AM
Nylander has 6 points on a 4-game point streak. He's 3rd on the team in points behind Matthews and Kadri (so he leads all wingers). He leads the team in assists. And he's only shooting 7.5%.

edit: Oh he's 55.1% on face-offs too.

I don't really mind someone like Nylander being used as an overmatch option once in awhile (on the road against top-heavy teams). Back in the Carlyle days, I wondered if the Leafs would try that with Kessel a bit when JvR and Lupul were going. Scoring by sheer Will right into the soft spots of the opposing lineups changes the complexion of the game.

Nylander has made Martin and Moore look like legit NHLers and spiked their confidence (Martin tried to snipe it later in the game! Moore is showing off moves he hadn't used since he was 28!). If we can sort out our penalty taking problems (*cough* Polak) and keep buzzing the offensive zone in waves, Willy will get plenty of PP time to offset low even-strength minutes. Nights like last night, I'd even play Moore's line over Bozak's.

Of the three kids who've ridden the 10th forward role, Nylander has easily been the best, but we already knew that. On the road, teams are going to iso Matthews' line; with Hyman and Brown, he can neutralize the other top lines with Kadri, freeing up Nylander (and eventually Marner) to carve up the bottom.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Coco-puffs on December 01, 2017, 09:50:22 AM

Nylander has made Martin and Moore look like legit NHLers and spiked their confidence (Martin tried to snipe it later in the game! Moore is showing off moves he hadn't used since he was 28!).


Martin looks like garbage when he has to play with Ben Smith.  When he's with other NHL players, he doesn't look out of place.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Andy on December 01, 2017, 10:06:03 AM
Nylander has 6 points on a 4-game point streak. He's 3rd on the team in points behind Matthews and Kadri (so he leads all wingers). He leads the team in assists. And he's only shooting 7.5%.

edit: Oh he's 55.1% on face-offs too.

I don't really mind someone like Nylander being used as an overmatch option once in awhile.

Nylander has made Martin and Moore look like legit NHLers and spiked their confidence (Martin tried to snipe it later in the game! Moore is showing off moves he hadn't used since he was 28!). If we can sort out our penalty taking problems (*cough* Polak) and keep buzzing the offensive zone in waves, Willy will get plenty of PP time to offset low even-strength minutes. Nights like last night, I'd even play Moore's line over Bozak's.


I don't necessarily have a problem with that scenario as long as he can get some steady minutes. Nylander played 11 minutes yesterday. Hyman was at 20 and Komarov 18+. There is no excuse for him to be lagging that far behind, particularly on a night when they only had to kill two penalties and the game was tied until the very end.  I'm still trying to process Komarov getting the 2nd most minutes out of all forwards...
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on December 01, 2017, 10:17:55 AM
I don't necessarily have a problem with that scenario as long as he can get some steady minutes. Nylander played 11 minutes yesterday. Hyman was at 20 and Komarov 18+. There is no excuse for him to be lagging that far behind, particularly on a night when they only had to kill two penalties and the game was tied until the very end.  I'm still trying to process Komarov getting the 2nd most minutes out of all forwards...

Komarov is a tri-phasic player: he's on EV strength match up duty, PK1, and PP2. He gonna get minutes just by that reason alone. Should he?

Hyman and Brown's minutes are tied to matchups. On the road, these are usually hard matched against other top lines. Against teams that are top heavy, that type of deployment saps the offense right out of you. It's to Hyman and Brown's credit that they still have the zip to start more than a few forays into the OZ. I can't see Nylander playing that level of defense regularly and being that effective going back the other way just yet. But when he does... hooo boy.

The Leafs aren't getting very many calls right now. Otherwise, you'd see Nylander's minutes climb. He still gets the odd shift with Matthews or Kadri (4-on-4, post-PK).

Right now, he's not demoted. He's playing 'secret' weapon. He's just getting a mini vacation to pad his stats and build his confidence before jumping back into hard matchups when we play again at home.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Coco-puffs on December 01, 2017, 10:29:41 AM
Nylander has 6 points on a 4-game point streak. He's 3rd on the team in points behind Matthews and Kadri (so he leads all wingers). He leads the team in assists. And he's only shooting 7.5%.

edit: Oh he's 55.1% on face-offs too.

I don't really mind someone like Nylander being used as an overmatch option once in awhile.

Nylander has made Martin and Moore look like legit NHLers and spiked their confidence (Martin tried to snipe it later in the game! Moore is showing off moves he hadn't used since he was 28!). If we can sort out our penalty taking problems (*cough* Polak) and keep buzzing the offensive zone in waves, Willy will get plenty of PP time to offset low even-strength minutes. Nights like last night, I'd even play Moore's line over Bozak's.


I don't necessarily have a problem with that scenario as long as he can get some steady minutes. Nylander played 11 minutes yesterday. Hyman was at 20 and Komarov 18+. There is no excuse for him to be lagging that far behind, particularly on a night when they only had to kill two penalties and the game was tied until the very end.  I'm still trying to process Komarov getting the 2nd most minutes out of all forwards...

The Leafs had a lead for 40 of the first 43 minutes of the game.  They only played 19 minutes tied, mostly in the 3rd after Russell's first goal.  And Bozak, JvR, Marner played only slightly more than Nylander at even strength.  Babcock ran Kadri/Matthews a lot at even strength trying to avoid the 3rd/4th lines getting caught out there against McDavid.  Nylander displacing Komarov on the shutdown line when most of the game the Leafs had the lead would not be ideal. 
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: CarltonTheBear on December 01, 2017, 10:55:22 AM
The Leafs had a lead for 40 of the first 43 minutes of the game.  They only played 19 minutes tied, mostly in the 3rd after Russell's first goal.  And Bozak, JvR, Marner played only slightly more than Nylander at even strength.  Babcock ran Kadri/Matthews a lot at even strength trying to avoid the 3rd/4th lines getting caught out there against McDavid.  Nylander displacing Komarov on the shutdown line when most of the game the Leafs had the lead would not be ideal. 

Thanks for being instrumental on all 4 of our goals so far tonight, Willie. We got this from here!

*team blow leads*


This joke would have worked much better if Nylander wasn't on the ice for Kassian's goal but I still like it.
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: cabber24 on December 01, 2017, 10:57:25 AM
Nylander has 6 points on a 4-game point streak. He's 3rd on the team in points behind Matthews and Kadri (so he leads all wingers). He leads the team in assists. And he's only shooting 7.5%.

edit: Oh he's 55.1% on face-offs too.
I am big on shooting percentages but he only has 8 shots in the last 7 games. Shoot the puck!
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: disco on December 07, 2017, 01:14:24 AM
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: herman on December 07, 2017, 10:07:13 AM

If you asked Nylander about this shot, it'd be something to the effect of, "I don't know, I just waited for him to make a move, I guess."
Title: Re: William Nylander
Post by: Zee on December 07, 2017, 01:05:03 PM
That goal was a thing of beauty.  Leafs had to ship Mike Smith's jock out to Montreal tonight in time for the game.