Author Topic: Duchene & Turris traded  (Read 1698 times)

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Offline bustaheims

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2017, 10:22:28 PM »
It could of the plan is to tank.

Even still - if you're trading a starting goalie mid-season, you're usually going to the the other team's starter or backup as part of the return. Having Hammond doesn't change that part of the equation. He's really just a contract Ottawa wanted to get rid of that the Avs were willing to absorb.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2017, 10:35:59 PM »

Yeah. I absolutely buy that Colorado may be tanking and that trading Varlamov may be part of that but I don't see where Hammond would affect either that plan or the public perception of that plan.
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Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2017, 11:50:49 PM »

Offline Andy

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2017, 06:16:59 AM »
It's funny, I never seem to understand any of these deals the Sens make but somehow they either work out or don't affect them negatively.

Bishop out for practically nothing and then trading away Lehner, leaving an aging Anderson and Jim Carrey-esque Hammond as their main goalies; taking the entire Phaneuf contract and even giving up a prospect and pick in the process; Zibanejad for Brassard, not to mention the 6 year age gap.

I mean none of these deals make a lick of sense to me. Turris, 1st, 3rd, (late)1st Rnd prospect from 2017 and Hammond for a (potentially) moderate Turris upgrade that has only one additional year on his contract remaining? I don't get it. How is this team not in the cellar right now?

Offline Andy

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2017, 06:45:05 AM »
Oh, and I forgot, the Sens also traded their 2018 2nd with Zabinejad for Brassard. Jeez.
So they don't have their 1st or 2nd this upcoming draft and just traded their 2017 1st rounder. This has to come falling down soon, no?

Offline Dappleganger

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2017, 07:19:05 AM »
Oh, and I forgot, the Sens also traded their 2018 2nd with Zabinejad for Brassard. Jeez.
So they don't have their 1st or 2nd this upcoming draft and just traded their 2017 1st rounder. This has to come falling down soon, no?

Really seems like the type of moves the Leafs used to do.

Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2017, 08:07:06 AM »

In the "Senators make really puzzling trades" department I think you have to include trading Silfverberg, a 1st and a prospect for Ryan as well as trading what looks like a pretty good prospect for Burrows.

As for it all having to crash down, I think what's saved them is having some exceptional drafts(Leafs fans flip their lids over getting an ok player like Brown in the 6th, imagine how we'd react to Hoffman and Stone), generally being pretty good at drafting and stockpiling picks at the right moment. Even with all the trades they still have 3 1st rounders and 3 second rounders in their system from the last three drafts.
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Offline Andy

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2017, 08:52:14 AM »
Yea, Stone and Hoffman as 6th and 5th round picks certainly helps and, well, Erik Karsslon ftw.

Just taking a look at their last 8 or 9 drafts and they don't have a lot to show for their early round picks (Zabinejad, Lazar, Cowen, Noesen, Puempel, Ceci, Bowers were all 1sts) and two of those drafts they didn't have any 1st round picks. I guess they really have benefited by solid later round drafting + whatever deal Anderson made with the hockey gods.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2017, 09:35:27 AM »
Looks like Sakic finally won that game of chicken. That's a very, very good haul of picks + prospects there. Getting 2 other teams was actually a very smart move on their part. And I don't say the word "smart" when talking about the Avs very much anymore.

I also like this trade because it looks like Ottawa gets the worst of it. Broken down its:

Colorado gives up: Matt Duchene
Colorado acquires: OTT 1st-round pick, OTT 3rd-round pick, C Shane Bowers, G Andrew Hammond (from Ottawa); NSH 2nd-round pick, D Samuel Girard, LW Vladislav Kamenev (from Nashville)

Nashville gives up: NSH 2nd-round pick, D Samuel Girard, LW Vladislav Kamenev
Nashville acquires: Kyle Turris

Ottawa gives up: Kyle Turris, OTT 1st-round pick, OTT 3rd-round pick, C Shane Bowers, G Andrew Hammond

So Ottawa trades the equivalent of two 1st round draft picks (Bowers was picked 28th in 2017) plus a 3rd rounder to go from Turris to Duchene? I think that's an upgrade but a very small one.

Some things to consider:

- They also got to dump Hammond salary.  That in itself isn't worth a 3rd round pick, but might have been an upgrade from a lower round pick to take the salary.

- Contract situation matters here.  They were going to lose Turris at the end of this season for nothing (they didn't want to commit long-term to him).  They have Duchene for at least another year.

- No matter if the prospects/picks Colorado get from Ottawa turn out or not, I think this deal will be judged by the Sens ability to re-sign Duchene.  If they can't, then they paid a steep price to delay the inevitable


Offline bustaheims

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2017, 09:41:07 AM »
- Contract situation matters here.  They were going to lose Turris at the end of this season for nothing (they didn't want to commit long-term to him).  They have Duchene for at least another year.

Maybe, but I have a hard time believing that Ottawa wouldn't have been able to get Turris on a similar deal to what he signed with the Preds as part of the trade. They may not have wanted to commit to him for 7 years - which is what he was supposedly asking for - but they were trying to negotiate an extension with him, so they were definitely interested in keeping him around. I'm pretty confident that, faced with the choice of losing him for nothing or signing him to a reasonable 6 year deal, they sign that deal every time.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2017, 09:42:40 AM by bustaheims »
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2017, 09:58:34 AM »
- No matter if the prospects/picks Colorado get from Ottawa turn out or not, I think this deal will be judged by the Sens ability to re-sign Duchene.  If they can't, then they paid a steep price to delay the inevitable

Duchene, Brassard, and Karlsson are all pending UFAs at the same time. That'll be a big test for them.

Offline Andy

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2017, 10:09:39 AM »
- No matter if the prospects/picks Colorado get from Ottawa turn out or not, I think this deal will be judged by the Sens ability to re-sign Duchene.  If they can't, then they paid a steep price to delay the inevitable

Duchene, Brassard, and Karlsson are all pending UFAs at the same time. That'll be a big test for them.

And they still have Phaneuf at 7 million plus a goaltending situation.

Offline CarltonTheBear

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2017, 10:31:36 AM »
And they still have Phaneuf at 7 million plus a goaltending situation.

AND Bobby Ryan at $7.25mil. But the goaltending thing is really big. Anderson will be 39 years old and have 1-year left on his contract. If they don't have a successor in place by then it's going to be awful tough to get those guys to commit long-term.

Offline Coco-puffs

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2017, 12:14:57 PM »
- Contract situation matters here.  They were going to lose Turris at the end of this season for nothing (they didn't want to commit long-term to him).  They have Duchene for at least another year.

Maybe, but I have a hard time believing that Ottawa wouldn't have been able to get Turris on a similar deal to what he signed with the Preds as part of the trade. They may not have wanted to commit to him for 7 years - which is what he was supposedly asking for - but they were trying to negotiate an extension with him, so they were definitely interested in keeping him around. I'm pretty confident that, faced with the choice of losing him for nothing or signing him to a reasonable 6 year deal, they sign that deal every time.

Yeah, we don't know for sure.  But I got the sense the Sens didn't want to sign him for 6+ years at this point in time.  Could that have changed come the end of this season where they haven't gotten anything back for the asset?  Maybe.  Sounds like Dorion wanted Duchene from the moment he became GM and turned an asset he wasn't comfortable signing long-term as part of the package to get him.

http://www.tsn.ca/how-did-it-come-to-this-with-kyle-turris-1.906604

Online WhatIfGodWasALeaf

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 12:20:58 PM »
FWIW Dorion said this morning that Turris never entertained a 6 year deal from Ottawa, he was firm on 7 or 8.

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Re: Duchene & Turris traded
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2017, 12:20:58 PM »