Author Topic: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre  (Read 39205 times)

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Offline crazyperfectdevil

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #90 on: March 01, 2013, 11:39:50 AM »
I could see it if it was the odd shift or two per game, but currently the system works. Teams are forced to play their top shutdown men against Kessel's line...Keeping Kadri seperate opens up a 2nd line of scoring(considering Grabbo's line hasn't been scoring though they're picking it up). If Grabo's line returns to be the 1b line that it was the last couple seasons, perhaps then you could see Kadri moved up to centre Kessel's line a tad more.

it seems unlikely that Grabo's line will do that though...and not because they've lost the ability but more how Carlyle has chosen to use them, in fact, maple leaf hotstove has a pretty interesting article up about that right now:http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2013/03/01/mikhail-grabovski-defensive-stalwart/

Offline mjmgrand

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #91 on: March 01, 2013, 01:10:22 PM »
I contest the accuracy of this list. There has to have been a Leaf hattie scored since that last one Sundin is listed on ...

What about the game against Calgary when he scored his 500th - was that not a hat-trick as well?

You contest its accuracy? I mean, I agree it appears to be out of date but it answers the question you asked, doesn't it?

Yes it does indeed answer my question Nik. Thanks for the sleuthing ;)

Online Bullfrog

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #92 on: March 01, 2013, 01:45:36 PM »
...http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2013/03/01/mikhail-grabovski-defensive-stalwart/

Quote
That hes been able to tally 10 points (while receiving a modest 1:47 per game on the power play) is actually a testament to the indomitable skill Grabovski possesses.

iNDOMITABLE! I like it.

Offline L K

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #93 on: March 01, 2013, 02:02:28 PM »
Don't look now but Kadri is 16th in league scoring.  Of note to that, of the top 16, he's got the least amount of ice time per game at 15:08.  Next closest is Voracek at 16:34 per game.  Most guys are 18-21 minutes.

But as Nik pointed out, more ice time may not necessarily translate in to more points.  One of the things Kadri has going for him is that he does not have to play against the other teams shutdown players.  I am not saying that Kadri might not be able to handle it, but it might be best to just let him gain his confidence for now, and then slowly give him a little more responsibility.

No, it doesn't guarantee more points.  But simply arguing that he is producing with limited minutes so therefore we shouldn't give him more is just pure silliness.  There are ways to increase his ice-time without putting him in vulnerable/taxing situations. 

When the Leafs are down a goal or two, stick him on Kessel's line for a shift or two and see if something clicks.  Move him up to the 1st PP unit so he is guaranteed 1:00+ minute of time on the PP instead of getting on in the second half of a PP after the 1st unit wastes 1:20 of it.

I mean, the guy is averaging the 10th most PP-TOI/game (8th if you don't include Lupul/Gardiner's cups of tea).  Kadri leads the team with 4 PP goals.  He's tied for 3rd on the team with 5 PP points.   I don't think it would be too hard to find the guy another 1-2 minutes of TOI/game that wouldn't necessitate him playing a constant cycle game and wearing down his engine. 

It's not like Kadri ends up being a guy who stops producing in the 3rd period because he looks worn out either. 

Offline Potvin29

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #94 on: March 03, 2013, 01:34:23 PM »
No pressure:


Offline TML fan

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #95 on: March 03, 2013, 01:37:17 PM »
I actually believe this is why the Leafs have a hard time developing players, particularly 1st round picks.

That said, I think Kadri is one of the few who can actually handle the pressure.

Offline Bender

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #96 on: March 03, 2013, 02:57:00 PM »
I actually believe this is why the Leafs have a hard time developing players, particularly 1st round picks.

That said, I think Kadri is one of the few who can actually handle the pressure.

I kind of think its a bit crazy to think that the media pressure makes it hard for the Leafs to develop players. Im sure they tell their prospect beforehand to ignore what's written about them and focus on playing their game. Its not like this is anything new or that the organization doesn't know how to deal with it.
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Offline TML fan

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #97 on: March 03, 2013, 06:03:48 PM »
I actually believe this is why the Leafs have a hard time developing players, particularly 1st round picks.

That said, I think Kadri is one of the few who can actually handle the pressure.

I kind of think its a bit crazy to think that the media pressure makes it hard for the Leafs to develop players. Im sure they tell their prospect beforehand to ignore what's written about them and focus on playing their game. Its not like this is anything new or that the organization doesn't know how to deal with it.

Just because the player is informed doesn't mean he can handle it.

Offline Rebel_1812

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #98 on: March 03, 2013, 09:11:06 PM »
...http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2013/03/01/mikhail-grabovski-defensive-stalwart/

Quote
That hes been able to tally 10 points (while receiving a modest 1:47 per game on the power play) is actually a testament to the indomitable skill Grabovski possesses.

iNDOMITABLE! I like it.

yeah he is just like the snowman
*******************

Offline Bender

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #99 on: March 03, 2013, 09:20:54 PM »
I actually believe this is why the Leafs have a hard time developing players, particularly 1st round picks.

That said, I think Kadri is one of the few who can actually handle the pressure.

I kind of think its a bit crazy to think that the media pressure makes it hard for the Leafs to develop players. Im sure they tell their prospect beforehand to ignore what's written about them and focus on playing their game. Its not like this is anything new or that the organization doesn't know how to deal with it.

Just because the player is informed doesn't mean he can handle it.

And you think that thats the reason why in the majority of cases the Leafs couldn't develop first round talent?
"They say you can judge a man by the company he keeps. So here is the professor's oldest friend, a grotesque, stinking lobster." - Bender

Offline TML fan

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #100 on: March 03, 2013, 09:46:43 PM »
I actually believe this is why the Leafs have a hard time developing players, particularly 1st round picks.

That said, I think Kadri is one of the few who can actually handle the pressure.

I kind of think its a bit crazy to think that the media pressure makes it hard for the Leafs to develop players. Im sure they tell their prospect beforehand to ignore what's written about them and focus on playing their game. Its not like this is anything new or that the organization doesn't know how to deal with it.

Just because the player is informed doesn't mean he can handle it.

And you think that thats the reason why in the majority of cases the Leafs couldn't develop first round talent?

That's what I said, isn't it?

Offline OldTimeHockey

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #101 on: March 04, 2013, 08:28:27 AM »
I actually believe this is why the Leafs have a hard time developing players, particularly 1st round picks.

That said, I think Kadri is one of the few who can actually handle the pressure.

I kind of think its a bit crazy to think that the media pressure makes it hard for the Leafs to develop players. Im sure they tell their prospect beforehand to ignore what's written about them and focus on playing their game. Its not like this is anything new or that the organization doesn't know how to deal with it.

Yeah, I mean, it's not like they haven't been successful in the past 45 years.

Offline Corn Flake

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #102 on: March 04, 2013, 09:47:04 AM »
I actually believe this is why the Leafs have a hard time developing players, particularly 1st round picks.

That said, I think Kadri is one of the few who can actually handle the pressure.

I kind of think its a bit crazy to think that the media pressure makes it hard for the Leafs to develop players. Im sure they tell their prospect beforehand to ignore what's written about them and focus on playing their game. Its not like this is anything new or that the organization doesn't know how to deal with it.

Just because the player is informed doesn't mean he can handle it.

And you think that thats the reason why in the majority of cases the Leafs couldn't develop first round talent?

think of it this way.. if you were 18 years old, coming out of junior and your head is likely as big as your bedroom from all the accolades and attention you've been getting probably since you were 9 years old, how would you deal with being drafted by the most popular franchise in hockey?  You've got dozens of media wanting your every spare second of time, asking for exclusive interviews, wanting to know what you ate for breakfast, writing articles with tags like "franchise savior" etc etc etc.    For a teenage mind, it's difficult to process all that and be able to stay focused on the task at hand, no matter what the team tries to help you with and educate you.  And then, if instant success isn't achieved, the questions and criticism starts and then a whole different dynamic.  If it was you, how would you have handled it as an 18 year old? I know for me it wouldn't have been pretty.

I remember when the Leafs drafted Brad Boyes.... the attention he got was just off the charts, including his time at the WJC's.  The media were so over the top with the whole "future of the franchise" tags and questions it was insane.  His first Leafs camp after that had the same kind of coverage and he was completely awful in it.  He clearly looked like a kid who thought he had to do little to earn an NHL job, which was really out of character for him to be a guy who coasted.  He was demoted from there and it took him a lot of time and some tough seasons to get to the NHL, of course with San Jose. There wasn't anything technically wrong with his development path but the whole "dissapointment" messages were getting very loud after that first and then second failed camp.

All the crap that Kadri had to listen to is just another version of the same thing.  He's got Cherry in one ear telling him how amazing he is and that the team is baiscally screwing him up, and then on the other side he's got the critics - many in the media - calling him fat, too small, too cocky, over rated, etc etc etc. I'm actually amazed he seems to have made it - speaks to his character, IMO.  Most kids wouldn't have handled that well.

I think it takes a bit of a different kind of person to handle the level of attention you would get in this market vs. say Carolina where you can play hockey and not deal with the invasive media attention on a daily basis.

Offline Significantly Insignificant

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #103 on: March 04, 2013, 10:25:17 AM »
I actually believe this is why the Leafs have a hard time developing players, particularly 1st round picks.

That said, I think Kadri is one of the few who can actually handle the pressure.

I kind of think its a bit crazy to think that the media pressure makes it hard for the Leafs to develop players. Im sure they tell their prospect beforehand to ignore what's written about them and focus on playing their game. Its not like this is anything new or that the organization doesn't know how to deal with it.

Just because the player is informed doesn't mean he can handle it.

And you think that thats the reason why in the majority of cases the Leafs couldn't develop first round talent?

think of it this way.. if you were 18 years old, coming out of junior and your head is likely as big as your bedroom from all the accolades and attention you've been getting probably since you were 9 years old, how would you deal with being drafted by the most popular franchise in hockey?  You've got dozens of media wanting your every spare second of time, asking for exclusive interviews, wanting to know what you ate for breakfast, writing articles with tags like "franchise savior" etc etc etc.    For a teenage mind, it's difficult to process all that and be able to stay focused on the task at hand, no matter what the team tries to help you with and educate you.  And then, if instant success isn't achieved, the questions and criticism starts and then a whole different dynamic.  If it was you, how would you have handled it as an 18 year old? I know for me it wouldn't have been pretty.

I remember when the Leafs drafted Brad Boyes.... the attention he got was just off the charts, including his time at the WJC's.  The media were so over the top with the whole "future of the franchise" tags and questions it was insane.  His first Leafs camp after that had the same kind of coverage and he was completely awful in it.  He clearly looked like a kid who thought he had to do little to earn an NHL job, which was really out of character for him to be a guy who coasted.  He was demoted from there and it took him a lot of time and some tough seasons to get to the NHL, of course with San Jose. There wasn't anything technically wrong with his development path but the whole "dissapointment" messages were getting very loud after that first and then second failed camp.

All the crap that Kadri had to listen to is just another version of the same thing.  He's got Cherry in one ear telling him how amazing he is and that the team is baiscally screwing him up, and then on the other side he's got the critics - many in the media - calling him fat, too small, too cocky, over rated, etc etc etc. I'm actually amazed he seems to have made it - speaks to his character, IMO.  Most kids wouldn't have handled that well.

I think it takes a bit of a different kind of person to handle the level of attention you would get in this market vs. say Carolina where you can play hockey and not deal with the invasive media attention on a daily basis.

But then that is on the team.  There needs to be strong leadership within the room and some mentoring that needs to take place.  Burke has been known to sit down with prospects and spell it out for them.  He sat down with Perry and told him that he had to clean up some parts of his game.  He sat down with Frattin and laid out what was going to happen to him if he kept going down the path he was on.  Not sure if he did it with Kadri or not.

Boyes is an interesting one.  The team had guys like Sundin and Roberts so I can't see there being a shortage of mentoring.  Quinn was the coach, and there was this stigma that he didn't like young players, but who knows how much of that was just media driven.

I don't think you can just blame the media for ruining a prospect.  Teams have to adjust for that, and every kid is different and will handle it differently, so I think a team needs to be able to spot warning signs and figure out how to deal with potential problems before they get out of hand.
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Offline Nik the Trik

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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #104 on: March 04, 2013, 10:29:19 AM »
I actually believe this is why the Leafs have a hard time developing players, particularly 1st round picks.

That said, I think Kadri is one of the few who can actually handle the pressure.

I kind of think its a bit crazy to think that the media pressure makes it hard for the Leafs to develop players. Im sure they tell their prospect beforehand to ignore what's written about them and focus on playing their game. Its not like this is anything new or that the organization doesn't know how to deal with it.

Yeah, I mean, it's not like they haven't been successful in the past 45 years.

But that's got way, way more to do with managerial incompetence than anything else. All blaming the "pressure" does is provide a smokescreen for that incompetence. There's a ton of media pressure on the Habs as well and they've won...what, 10 cups in the same time period? The Yankees, Red Sox, Lakers...if the idea was that media pressure was as corrosive as it's being made out to be then those teams wouldn't be able to develop players and build championship clubs but they seem to actually be alright at it.

Here's a list of the Leafs first round picks over the last 15 years:

Nik Antropov - developed into a good player
Luca Cereda
Brad Boyes - developed into a good player
Carlo Colaiacovo - developed into a good player
Alex Steen - developed into a good player
Tuuka Rask - developed into a good player
Jiri Tlusty - certainly looks like he's going to be a good player
Luke Schenn - Had his struggles, is still 23
Nazem Kadri - looks to be a good player

Then there's Percy, Biggs and Rielly, all of whom are too young to say. I'm sorry but looked at objectively the idea that there's some external, unique factor that affects Leafs players and leaves them unable to develop just has no basis in reality. There's not a single player on that list who got to Toronto and really failed with the club with the possible exception of Tlusty and even then i think any "failure" there has way more to do with the stupid way the club used him rather than any media pressure. Absent Luca Cereda's wonky heart there's not a real bust in the bunch.

Obviously guys like Rask didn't develop as a Leaf and the Leafs didn't always position themselves to reap the biggest benefits from their relatively decent record in the draft but there's really no leg to stand on to try and blame the media when it's really just garden variety incompetence that actually drags the team down.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2013, 10:35:35 AM by Nik Gida »
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Re: Official meeting place of the Kadri Cadre
« Reply #104 on: March 04, 2013, 10:29:19 AM »