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Maple Leafs News and Views => Main Leafs Hockey Talk => Topic started by: moon111 on July 05, 2014, 11:32:58 AM

Title: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: moon111 on July 05, 2014, 11:32:58 AM
My optimism got allot higher with the recent Bodie, Komarov, and Santorelli signings.
But now trying to guess what the possible line-ups could be, I really can't say.  That's a good thing, as perhaps there isn't a huge drop in talent as there has been in the past?

I think JVR Bozak Kessel will continue to be a lock for 1st line.  Didn't Frattin show some chemistry with Kadri in the past?  Do the two Finns, Komarov and Kontiola, play together?  I think Holland showed some great promise.  Kadri might be the weakest of all the centers on face-offs.  Someone has to play the wing.  What to do with David Clarkson?  I'd swallow my pride and let him have Orr's position on the 4th line.  Perhaps Shanahan can have a positive influence on how to build a line that would utilize Clarkson better? 

JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Santorelli Kadri
Komarov Kontiola Clarkson
Bodie Holland Frattin

As for the defence, have to wait and see if there's any movements.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: hap_leaf on July 05, 2014, 08:39:07 PM
JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Santorelli Kadri
Komarov Kontiola Clarkson
Bodie Holland Frattin

Looks like a 70-20-5-5 goal % spread to me. 
As usual if the 1st line isn't producing we don't win.
Still, I think running 4 lines is the way to go in today's NHL.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Rebel_1812 on July 05, 2014, 11:28:11 PM
JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Santorelli Kadri
Komarov Kontiola Clarkson
Bodie Holland Frattin

Looks like a 70-20-5-5 goal % spread to me. 
As usual if the 1st line isn't producing we don't win.
Still, I think running 4 lines is the way to go in today's NHL.

put holland in the 3rd line center spot over that euro guy that hasn't established himself at the nhl yet.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: moon111 on July 06, 2014, 12:15:54 AM
JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Santorelli Kadri
Komarov Kontiola Clarkson
Bodie Holland Frattin

Looks like a 70-20-5-5 goal % spread to me. 
As usual if the 1st line isn't producing we don't win.
Still, I think running 4 lines is the way to go in today's NHL.

put holland in the 3rd line center spot over that euro guy that hasn't established himself at the nhl yet.
I initially had the 3rd and 4th lines switched.  But can't see Clarkson's contract going on the 'fourth' line.  I do see the two Finns together for some reason.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Dappleganger on July 06, 2014, 12:20:57 AM
If Mike Santorelli is the second line centre, Leafs finish bottom five.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: TML fan on July 06, 2014, 01:08:26 AM
van Riemsdyk - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Clarkson
Komarov - Holland - Santorelli
Bodie - Kontiola - Frattin
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: moon111 on July 06, 2014, 01:54:37 AM
If David Clarkson is the second line right-wing, Leafs finish bottom five.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: AvroArrow on July 06, 2014, 09:15:46 AM
JvR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Kontiola
Komarov - Santorelli - Clarkson
Ashton - Holland - Frattin
Bodie
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: nutman on July 06, 2014, 09:59:43 AM
Frattin will be with Kadri. and i'm betting Holland don't go below third line.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 06, 2014, 10:09:25 AM

A lot of optimism here regarding the face punchers. I don't entirely share it. I'd bet the forward lines start out looking something like:

Kessel-Bozak-JVR
Lupul-Kadri-Frattin
Komarov-Santorelli-Clarkson
Orr-Holland-Kontiola
Bodie McLaren

Of all of those guys I'm guessing it's Clarkson that the team will be most eager to give every opportunity to advance. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has a good camp that he then would get back into the top 6.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Can8899 on July 06, 2014, 10:32:08 AM
Kessel - Bozak - JVR
Lupul - Kadri - Clarkson
Santorelli - Kontiola - Komarov
Bodie/Ashton - Holland - Frattin
Orr/McLaren

First line is a given. 

I still think that the way Clarkson's season started last year with the suspension really put him behind the 8-ball.  I think that this season he'll be much better.  Having him with Kadri and Lupul (or JVR) will open up space for Kadri to create chances.  I'm not the biggest fan of Kadri's but he's a good passer so as long as Lupul and Clarkson can finish, that line can be successful.  If I recall correctly, Clarkson wasn't given that much of a chance on a scoring line but rather used mostly in a 3rd/4th line checking role for most of they year.

Third line has the 2 Finns together to help get Kontiola's feet wet again in the NHL.  I'm not worried about Komarov fitting in as he has already shown he's an NHL'er.  For Kontiola, having a familiar face on your wing should help him fit in.  Santorelli can be used as a winger too if I recall correctly.

Fourth line will be able to check with Bodie or Ashton on one wing and the work horse Frattin on the other.  Holland showed last year that he has some offensive skill so this line isn't so much a time eater but could really turn into somewhat of a threat to pot a few goals.

The D-lines are all over the place at this point.  Right now, I think it's pretty safe to say that Phaneuf, Rielly, Polak and Robidas are locks.  Gardiner is a lock assuming he's not traded or holds out and the 6th spot is wide open it seems.  I like Franson but he seems destined to be traded away which I think is going to be a mistake given that the most we'll get for him straight up is a 2nd or 3rd pick or middling prospect. 

I foresee something like:

Phaneuf - Gardiner/Rielly
Gardiner /Rielly- Polak
AHL promotion - Robidas

I would love to see Franson on that top pair but as listed above I don't think he'll be around much longer.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Bullfrog on July 06, 2014, 10:34:53 AM
I see Franson as a third liner with lots of PP time. He shouldn't be near the top line.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: L K on July 06, 2014, 10:39:55 AM

A lot of optimism here regarding the face punchers. I don't entirely share it. I'd bet the forward lines start out looking something like:

Of all of those guys I'm guessing it's Clarkson that the team will be most eager to give every opportunity to advance. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he has a good camp that he then would get back into the top 6.

Unfortunately, I agree with you.  The team can take away Carlyle's assistant coaches, and the team can take away his preferred style of play (explain the reason they are keeping him again?), but they have to leave him with something and that has to be lineup decisions.  Carlyle has a love-affair with these garbage type players and he's not going to just give up on that, especially for guys like Ashton/Holland/Bodie when he wasn't doing it before.

My ideal starting lineup (with no further changes):
JVR - Bozak - Kessel
Lupul - Kadri - Frattin
Komarov - Holland - Clarkson
Bodie - Kontiola - Santorelli
Ashton, McLaren

The 1st line stays together because it is productive.  It's defensively challenged at times but there really isn't anyone else on the team who makes it better defensively without taking a massive hit offensively.

I like the idea of trying to see if Frattin can regain his form with Kadri.  It's another questionable defensive line but it has some decent speed and Frattin gives the line a chance to get to pucks quickly if carrying the puck into the offensive zone isn't available.

The 3rd line is about puck cycling.  As much as Clarkson was useless last year, I think he might work a bit better with a line that can try and hold the puck in the offensive zone and Holland is the best suited center to do that with.  Komarov works well along the boards to complement it.

The 4th line isn't a traditional 4th line by any means but it has the potential to chip in points and really when you look at the roster, I don't think there should be a huge difference in ice-time between the 3rd and 4th lines this year, at least until certain players establish themselves as more or less reliable.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: L K on July 06, 2014, 10:43:55 AM
What I really like about this currently lineup is that it will likely have anywhere from 3-6 million in cap space available heading in to the season.  This isn't a lineup that should not be contending for anything more than 3rd place or the two wild-card spots at best.  Save cap space so that if the Leafs are falling way out of contention they have the space to eat contracts in return with contenders to improve draft pick return if the trade guys like Reimer, Lupul, Franson down the stretch.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Potvin29 on July 06, 2014, 10:47:20 AM
Unfortunately, I agree with you.  The team can take away Carlyle's assistant coaches, and the team can take away his preferred style of play (explain the reason they are keeping him again?), but they have to leave him with something and that has to be lineup decisions.  Carlyle has a love-affair with these garbage type players and he's not going to just give up on that, especially for guys like Ashton/Holland/Bodie when he wasn't doing it before.

Since we don't know and are just guessing, I will do the same - I could envision it being a situation where Shanahan came in and, after they met with Carlyle and the decision about the assistants were made, Shanahan (and Nonis) told Carlyle that the game is changing, the 4th line has to be able to play, etc and to basically not play Orr/McLaren.

Of course, the easier way to do that would be for the GM to step up and demote them.  But I swear I read/heard an interview with Nonis or someone this summer stating that the 4th line has to be able to play, and it struck me as different than what I'd heard in the past.  But maybe I'm just remembering wrong.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: moon111 on July 06, 2014, 11:13:20 AM
Perhaps Carlyle knows exactly what he's doing.  I remember having a few people under me.  I started out giving the the harder difficult jobs to the stronger workers and the easy to the weaker.  It was the best production one could hope for.  But what I ended up with is slackers getting away with it.  So I did the exact opposite, put people in a position to cause failure.  Management wants to know what's going on.  I told them see for themselves because I've already told them but they didn't listen.  It was the only way I could influence personal changes.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: OldTimeHockey on July 06, 2014, 08:48:34 PM

But I swear I read/heard an interview with Nonis or someone this summer stating that the 4th line has to be able to play, and it struck me as different than what I'd heard in the past.  But maybe I'm just remembering wrong.

Did Nonis not say something similar in his July 1st press conference?
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on July 06, 2014, 11:09:54 PM
If Reimer goes, anyone up for giving Markstrom the backup gig?

I think I'd probably prefer him to Brodeur at this stage.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: BlueWhiteBlood on July 07, 2014, 08:09:54 AM
If Reimer goes, anyone up for giving Markstrom the backup gig?

I think I'd probably prefer him to Brodeur at this stage.

Depends on what we have to trade to get him.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 07, 2014, 08:38:56 AM
Depends on what we have to trade to get him.

Miller and Lack are ahead of him, and he has to clear waivers to go to the AHL. Considering how few teams actually need goalies, I'd be shocked if he went for anything above a 4th round draft pick.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 07, 2014, 09:15:01 AM

But I swear I read/heard an interview with Nonis or someone this summer stating that the 4th line has to be able to play, and it struck me as different than what I'd heard in the past.  But maybe I'm just remembering wrong.

Did Nonis not say something similar in his July 1st press conference?

Well, ok but leaving aside that what Nonis said could be interpreted in a bunch of different ways(that the 4th line has to play better, that the 4th line has to play more regardless of who's on it) Carlyle is still ultimately the guy who's going to make the line-up on a day to day basis. I buy that Carlyle getting fired might lead to a wholescale change in philosophy but so long as Shanahan/Nonis choose to keep Carlyle as their coach I think we need to be prepared for some of Carlyle's thought process on the composition of the team to survive the summer.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 07, 2014, 09:28:51 AM
Well, ok but leaving aside that what Nonis said could be interpreted in a bunch of different ways(that the 4th line has to play better, that the 4th line has to play more regardless of who's on it) Carlyle is still ultimately the guy who's going to make the line-up on a day to day basis. I buy that Carlyle getting fired might lead to a wholescale change in philosophy but so long as Shanahan/Nonis choose to keep Carlyle as their coach I think we need to be prepared for some of Carlyle's thought process on the composition of the team to survive the summer.

I expect Orr to still be on the roster and he'll play in games where Carlyle feels like he needs a more physical presence in the line-up. But I just can't see McLaren getting out of training camp. Not with the amount of bottom-6 guys the team has brought in this summer. It would require one of Ashton, Frattin, or Bodie to be waived or traded, and while none of those guys are exactly locks to make a NHL team, they're head and shoulders above McLaren.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Potvin29 on July 07, 2014, 09:31:22 AM
I expect Orr to still be on the roster and he'll play in games where Carlyle feels like he needs a more physical presence in the line-up. But I just can't see McLaren getting out of training camp. Not with the amount of bottom-6 guys the team has brought in this summer. It would require one of Ashton, Frattin, or Bodie to be waived or traded, and while none of those guys are exactly locks to make a NHL team, they're head and shoulders above McLaren.

Just don't see how either fits at all if everyone's healthy (I know you could have said that last year too):

http://www.capgeek.com/armchair-gm/roster/34852
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 07, 2014, 09:32:20 AM
Just don't see how either fits at all if everyone's healthy (I know you could have said that last year too):

http://www.capgeek.com/armchair-gm/roster/34852

I know it's weird because we're not exactly used to it, but we have the cap space to carry a 23-man roster.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Bullfrog on July 07, 2014, 09:32:44 AM
I suspect Orr will be on the team too, but I also expect a lot of scratches for him. If he gets more than 25 games, I'll be surprised and obviously disappointed.

With Bodie on the team, McLaren and Orr are completely redundant. Mind you, I think they're obsolete regardless of who's the team. On the 4th line, I think it's not unreasonable to expect a player to hit at least 10-15 pts.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Potvin29 on July 07, 2014, 09:35:42 AM
Just don't see how either fits at all if everyone's healthy (I know you could have said that last year too):

http://www.capgeek.com/armchair-gm/roster/34852

I know it's weird because we're not exactly used to it, but we have the cap space to carry a 23-man roster.

I just don't know who you take out of that lineup as presented for him on any night really.  Notwithstanding the fact that there may be more moves coming that could affect the forward group.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 07, 2014, 09:39:31 AM
I just don't know who you take out of that lineup as presented for him on any night really.  Notwithstanding the fact that there may be more moves coming that could affect the forward group.

It's not exactly a move I would make, but I can see Carlyle basically rotating Bodie, Ashton, Frattin, and Orr all in and out of the two 4th line wing spots. Injuries are also inevitable.

Like Bullfrog said though too, I do expect Orr to be the most frequent healthy scratch of that group.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Potvin29 on July 07, 2014, 09:41:12 AM
I just don't know who you take out of that lineup as presented for him on any night really.  Notwithstanding the fact that there may be more moves coming that could affect the forward group.

It's not exactly a move I would make, but I can see Carlyle basically rotating Bodie, Ashton, Frattin, and Orr all in and out of the two 4th line wing spots. Injuries are also inevitable.

Like Bullfrog said though too, I do expect Orr to be the most frequent healthy scratch of that group.

It annoys me if he even gets into 1 game based on his play the last, what is it, almost 90 games?  I don't even care if he has no impact on the particular game, it's the principle of it my good man!
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Bullfrog on July 07, 2014, 09:46:23 AM
I agree completely. I don't see anything that he brings to a game that would ever make me think "good choice to scratch Ashton for Orr."
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: freer on July 07, 2014, 09:49:00 AM
I suspect Orr will be on the team too, but I also expect a lot of scratches for him. If he gets more than 25 games, I'll be surprised and obviously disappointed.

With Bodie on the team, McLaren and Orr are completely redundant. Mind you, I think they're obsolete regardless of who's the team. On the 4th line, I think it's not unreasonable to expect a player to hit at least 10-15 pts.

I do agree with your thinking, but RC is a dinosaur so I unfortunately think one of the meat bags with make the team which will be a shame.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: bustaheims on July 07, 2014, 10:27:32 AM
Oh, I fully expect Orr and McLaren to be given every opportunity to take the 12 and 13th forward spots away from Ashton and Bodie. Yes, on one hand, we've had members of the Leafs' front office talk about how important it is to have a 4th line that can contribute and play real minutes, but, on the other hand, we've had other members talk about how injuries limited Orr and McLaren's effectiveness last season and talk up their supposed impact in 12/13.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 07, 2014, 10:34:32 AM
Well, ok but leaving aside that what Nonis said could be interpreted in a bunch of different ways(that the 4th line has to play better, that the 4th line has to play more regardless of who's on it) Carlyle is still ultimately the guy who's going to make the line-up on a day to day basis. I buy that Carlyle getting fired might lead to a wholescale change in philosophy but so long as Shanahan/Nonis choose to keep Carlyle as their coach I think we need to be prepared for some of Carlyle's thought process on the composition of the team to survive the summer.

I expect Orr to still be on the roster and he'll play in games where Carlyle feels like he needs a more physical presence in the line-up. But I just can't see McLaren getting out of training camp. Not with the amount of bottom-6 guys the team has brought in this summer. It would require one of Ashton, Frattin, or Bodie to be waived or traded, and while none of those guys are exactly locks to make a NHL team, they're head and shoulders above McLaren.

I don't disagree with any of that intellectually but I would have been here last year saying more or less the same thing about Orr or McLaren's spot on the roster vs. Colborne's. I wouldn't bet my life savings on both guys making the team or Orr playing in the majority of games or anything but if I had to lean one way or the other I'd say that the team will still break in that direction.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Bullfrog on July 07, 2014, 12:12:45 PM
And that's partly on the players too. If Ashton and Frattin and Bodie come and blow away the coaches, then they'll earn their time. They just need that opportunity to play.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Joe S. on July 07, 2014, 12:43:02 PM
Colton Orr's last NHL goal - assists to Fraser and McLaren. How awesome is that?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP8XMHF_u8o[/youtube]

And I'm pretty sure this will be his last goal in the NHL.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Joe S. on July 07, 2014, 12:49:13 PM
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534307

Gord Strate, a defenseman who played 61 games during parts of three seasons with Detroit in the late 1950s and never managed a point. No other player has skated in as many games without managing at least one point -- the runner-up is Frank "Frosty" Peters, who went 43 games without a point, all in 1930-31.

I think this is Orr's record now. He's gone 69 regular season games without a point, 76 if you include the playoffs.

How is he still in the NHL?

Edit: I think I misunderstood the record - it's most games played without recording a point at all in the NHL.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Britishbulldog on July 07, 2014, 01:40:23 PM
Colton Orr's last NHL goal - assists to Fraser and McLaren. How awesome is that?

And I'm pretty sure this will be his last goal in the NHL.

That is what they weren't doing last year.... ever.  I was hoping for that energy but only saw those stupid staged fights trying to show everyone that they were intimidating goons.  Orr was so slow last year it was shocking.  After seeing Orr play hard against Chara in the playoffs I thought the meat head hockey was gone from the Leafs.  Oh well.

If McLaren and Orr were skating hard, hitting everyone hard and trying to get pucks at the opposition's net like Bodie and Ashton then I would take the player who can fight as a heavyweight.   If the only thing the other player has going for them is they can fight then I would take the players who skate hard, hit and try to get pucks at the opposition's net.

Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: bustaheims on July 07, 2014, 02:23:12 PM
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534307

Gord Strate, a defenseman who played 61 games during parts of three seasons with Detroit in the late 1950s and never managed a point. No other player has skated in as many games without managing at least one point -- the runner-up is Frank "Frosty" Peters, who went 43 games without a point, all in 1930-31.

I think this is Orr's record now. He's gone 69 regular season games without a point, 76 if you include the playoffs.

How is he still in the NHL?

Edit: I think I misunderstood the record - it's most games played without recording a point at all in the NHL.

Yup. I'm pretty sure the streak for most games without a point is significantly longer, but, I'm having trouble finding an exact number. The streak for consecutive regular season games between goals sits at Ken Daneyko's impressive 255 game drought.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Bender on July 07, 2014, 03:40:22 PM
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534307

Gord Strate, a defenseman who played 61 games during parts of three seasons with Detroit in the late 1950s and never managed a point. No other player has skated in as many games without managing at least one point -- the runner-up is Frank "Frosty" Peters, who went 43 games without a point, all in 1930-31.

I think this is Orr's record now. He's gone 69 regular season games without a point, 76 if you include the playoffs.

How is he still in the NHL?

Edit: I think I misunderstood the record - it's most games played without recording a point at all in the NHL.

Yup. I'm pretty sure the streak for most games without a point is significantly longer, but, I'm having trouble finding an exact number. The streak for consecutive regular season games between goals sits at Ken Daneyko's impressive 255 game drought.

Judged on a goals per game basis, Colton Orr still scores at a lower rate than Daneyko.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: bustaheims on July 07, 2014, 03:54:06 PM
Judged on a goals per game basis, Colton Orr still scores at a lower rate than Daneyko.

Amazing how Orr can't even make the leap over that low bar.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Bender on July 07, 2014, 04:15:19 PM
Judged on a goals per game basis, Colton Orr still scores at a lower rate than Daneyko.

Amazing how Orr can't even make the leap over that low bar.

Well, to me that speaks more to Daneyko... how the hell is he the Devil's franchise leader in Games Played??
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Potvin29 on July 07, 2014, 04:21:57 PM
Judged on a goals per game basis, Colton Orr still scores at a lower rate than Daneyko.

Amazing how Orr can't even make the leap over that low bar.

Glad the Leafs have 2 players on this illustrious list of the past 2 seasons.

Link (http://www.hockey-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&year_min=2013&year_max=2014&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&birth_country=&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=S&handed=&c1stat=games_played&c1comp=gt&c1val=60&c2stat=&c2comp=lt&c2val=100&c3stat=points&c3comp=lt&c3val=5&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points)
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: L K on July 07, 2014, 06:35:35 PM
http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=534307

Gord Strate, a defenseman who played 61 games during parts of three seasons with Detroit in the late 1950s and never managed a point. No other player has skated in as many games without managing at least one point -- the runner-up is Frank "Frosty" Peters, who went 43 games without a point, all in 1930-31.

I think this is Orr's record now. He's gone 69 regular season games without a point, 76 if you include the playoffs.

How is he still in the NHL?

Edit: I think I misunderstood the record - it's most games played without recording a point at all in the NHL.

Yup. I'm pretty sure the streak for most games without a point is significantly longer, but, I'm having trouble finding an exact number. The streak for consecutive regular season games between goals sits at Ken Daneyko's impressive 255 game drought.

Judged on a goals per game basis, Colton Orr still scores at a lower rate than Daneyko.

Good glue guy in the dressing room.  Good defensively.  Knew his role.  Never expected to be overpaid for his contributions.  He was very good at what he did.  He's also a fantastic reason why junior hockey point production means very little (It's all about the context of the production).  He had 60 points in 69 games in his last full season of junior hockey and 34 points in 19 games in his last foray into junior hockey the next year.

My concern won't be abetted until we have an opening day roster with both Orr/McLaren either in the minors or clearly as the 13th forward.  You can't take away all of Randy's beloved toys and still have him "running" the show.  No dressing room would listen to him if he's just parroting words from above.  Management took away his assistants, they took away his system, they can't take away his lineup decisions.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Seymore Pucks on July 07, 2014, 06:52:26 PM
What about PP lines?  I would really like to see Clarkson on the 2nd unit in front of the net scoring dirty goals which is which a lot of his goals came when he scored 30 plus.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 07, 2014, 07:21:44 PM
What about PP lines?  I would really like to see Clarkson on the 2nd unit in front of the net scoring dirty goals which is which a lot of his goals came when he scored 30 plus.

I've wondered a bit lately how the team is going to handle Bozak's specialty team minutes. It doesn't really look like we're going to be replacing McClement externally, so Bozak will probably be looking at a pretty big bump in PK minutes. And considering that Bozak was already one of the highest played forwards in the league last season, I'm not sure he can take those extra minutes without dropping some elsewhere. Since Bozak struggled to produce on the powerplay last season (6th among forwards in points, 8 PP points in 58 games) I'd consider dropping him off the powerplay entirely. Kadri was very good on the powerplay last season despite getting 2nd unit minutes, and Kontiola should definitely be getting minutes on the PP as well. I think I'd run something like this:

JVR-Kadri-Kessel
Gardiner-Phaneuf

Lupul-Kontiola-Clarkson/Frattin
Rielly-Franson
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Seymore Pucks on July 07, 2014, 08:05:53 PM
What about PP lines?  I would really like to see Clarkson on the 2nd unit in front of the net scoring dirty goals which is which a lot of his goals came when he scored 30 plus.

I've wondered a bit lately how the team is going to handle Bozak's specialty team minutes. It doesn't really look like we're going to be replacing McClement externally, so Bozak will probably be looking at a pretty big bump in PK minutes. And considering that Bozak was already one of the highest played forwards in the league last season, I'm not sure he can take those extra minutes without dropping some elsewhere. Since Bozak struggled to produce on the powerplay last season (6th among forwards in points, 8 PP points in 58 games) I'd consider dropping him off the powerplay entirely. Kadri was very good on the powerplay last season despite getting 2nd unit minutes, and Kontiola should definitely be getting minutes on the PP as well. I think I'd run something like this:

JVR-Kadri-Kessel
Gardiner-Phaneuf

Lupul-Kontiola-Clarkson/Frattin
Rielly-Franson

I like Kadri on the 1st unit as well except his face offs are not as good as Bozak. 
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Potvin29 on July 07, 2014, 08:15:17 PM
What about PP lines?  I would really like to see Clarkson on the 2nd unit in front of the net scoring dirty goals which is which a lot of his goals came when he scored 30 plus.

I've wondered a bit lately how the team is going to handle Bozak's specialty team minutes. It doesn't really look like we're going to be replacing McClement externally, so Bozak will probably be looking at a pretty big bump in PK minutes. And considering that Bozak was already one of the highest played forwards in the league last season, I'm not sure he can take those extra minutes without dropping some elsewhere. Since Bozak struggled to produce on the powerplay last season (6th among forwards in points, 8 PP points in 58 games) I'd consider dropping him off the powerplay entirely. Kadri was very good on the powerplay last season despite getting 2nd unit minutes, and Kontiola should definitely be getting minutes on the PP as well. I think I'd run something like this:

JVR-Kadri-Kessel
Gardiner-Phaneuf

Lupul-Kontiola-Clarkson/Frattin
Rielly-Franson

I like Kadri on the 1st unit as well except his face offs are not as good as Bozak.

Last season they were 3% different in FO%, a difference of ~35 FO wins over 1000 draws.  Not really significant.

Maybe just a down year for Bozak, but that's the most recent season #'s.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Seymore Pucks on July 07, 2014, 08:32:04 PM
What about PP lines?  I would really like to see Clarkson on the 2nd unit in front of the net scoring dirty goals which is which a lot of his goals came when he scored 30 plus.

I've wondered a bit lately how the team is going to handle Bozak's specialty team minutes. It doesn't really look like we're going to be replacing McClement externally, so Bozak will probably be looking at a pretty big bump in PK minutes. And considering that Bozak was already one of the highest played forwards in the league last season, I'm not sure he can take those extra minutes without dropping some elsewhere. Since Bozak struggled to produce on the powerplay last season (6th among forwards in points, 8 PP points in 58 games) I'd consider dropping him off the powerplay entirely. Kadri was very good on the powerplay last season despite getting 2nd unit minutes, and Kontiola should definitely be getting minutes on the PP as well. I think I'd run something like this:

JVR-Kadri-Kessel
Gardiner-Phaneuf

Lupul-Kontiola-Clarkson/Frattin
Rielly-Franson

I like Kadri on the 1st unit as well except his face offs are not as good as Bozak.

Last season they were 3% different in FO%, a difference of ~35 FO wins over 1000 draws.  Not really significant.

Maybe just a down year for Bozak, but that's the most recent season #'s.
Sweet just leave Bozak on the PK and move Kadri up to the 1st PP.  Holland is a pretty good passer so he could C the 2nd PP over the new signings.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on July 07, 2014, 08:55:26 PM
What about PP lines?  I would really like to see Clarkson on the 2nd unit in front of the net scoring dirty goals which is which a lot of his goals came when he scored 30 plus.

I've wondered a bit lately how the team is going to handle Bozak's specialty team minutes. It doesn't really look like we're going to be replacing McClement externally, so Bozak will probably be looking at a pretty big bump in PK minutes. And considering that Bozak was already one of the highest played forwards in the league last season, I'm not sure he can take those extra minutes without dropping some elsewhere. Since Bozak struggled to produce on the powerplay last season (6th among forwards in points, 8 PP points in 58 games) I'd consider dropping him off the powerplay entirely. Kadri was very good on the powerplay last season despite getting 2nd unit minutes, and Kontiola should definitely be getting minutes on the PP as well. I think I'd run something like this:

JVR-Kadri-Kessel
Gardiner-Phaneuf

Lupul-Kontiola-Clarkson/Frattin
Rielly-Franson

I like Kadri on the 1st unit as well except his face offs are not as good as Bozak.

Last season they were 3% different in FO%, a difference of ~35 FO wins over 1000 draws.  Not really significant.

Maybe just a down year for Bozak, but that's the most recent season #'s.
Sweet just leave Bozak on the PK and move Kadri up to the 1st PP.  Holland is a pretty good passer so he could C the 2nd PP over the new signings.

If Cody comes back I suspect Raaaandy will want him on the top PP unit as per usual, despite the PP looking much more dangerous with at least one of the kids on each unit.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Nik the Trik on July 08, 2014, 07:40:19 AM
My concern won't be abetted until we have an opening day roster with both Orr/McLaren either in the minors or clearly as the 13th forward.  You can't take away all of Randy's beloved toys and still have him "running" the show.  No dressing room would listen to him if he's just parroting words from above.  Management took away his assistants, they took away his system, they can't take away his lineup decisions.

Well that was the point I was trying to make. After the season there were a lot of people who were 100% sure that Carlyle will get fired because they assumed that anyone would read the situation the same way they did. Now those people seem to be thinking that Carlyle will come back, they just won't let him make any decisions or implement any strategy.

As much as people may not like the decision to bring back Carlyle, the idea that Shanahan and Nonis would bring him back but only under those conditions is actually harder to explain. 
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Highlander on July 08, 2014, 03:48:38 PM
Randy is going to be a puppet this year and will dance on the Shanaplan strings. You bet ya.
His new assistants are going to be Scotty Bowman and the ghost of Punch Imlach
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on July 08, 2014, 07:38:20 PM
Randy is going to be a puppet this year and will dance on the Shanaplan strings. You bet ya.
His new assistants are going to be Scotty Bowman and the ghost of Punch Imlach

OOOOOHHHH!!!!.....YOU SHOULD HAVE SIGNED DAVE BOOOOOLLLLAND!!!!.....DAVE BOOOOLLLAND.....OOOOOHHH!!!

(worst ghost impression ever)
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Mike1 on July 08, 2014, 08:16:43 PM
JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Santorelli Kadri
Komarov Kontiola Clarkson
Bodie Holland Frattin

Pretty bad forward core. The drop off after the top 5 is pretty staggering. This team had trouble with secondary scoring last year with a 20-goal season from Mason Raymond. I guess they are going to roll the dice on another cheap addition before training camp? Still, not really any improvement upfront.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Potvin29 on July 08, 2014, 08:37:18 PM
JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Santorelli Kadri
Komarov Kontiola Clarkson
Bodie Holland Frattin

Pretty bad forward core. The drop off after the top 5 is pretty staggering. This team had trouble with secondary scoring last year with a 20-goal season from Mason Raymond. I guess they are going to roll the dice on another cheap addition before training camp? Still, not really any improvement upfront.

Their depth scoring should actually probably be better than last season.

17 players suited up in a (mostly) bottom 6 role, putting up 91 points in 517 combined games.  I can't see them being worse than that this season, assuming health is okay, with the players likely to be in the bottom 6.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Joe S. on July 08, 2014, 08:43:51 PM
Randy is going to be a puppet this year and will dance on the Shanaplan strings. You bet ya.
His new assistants are going to be Scotty Bowman and the ghost of Punch Imlach

How about the ghost of stonewall Jackson?

(http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRC8-eGjpysvNOH9iEU1yY1eYyiPzwgMABydtRzuA4pQ2NkR7G0AqA8Upw)
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: CarltonTheBear on July 08, 2014, 08:52:44 PM
Their depth scoring should actually probably be better than last season.

17 players suited up in a (mostly) bottom 6 role, putting up 91 points in 517 combined games.  I can't see them being worse than that this season, assuming health is okay, with the players likely to be in the bottom 6.

Kulemin, McClement, and Clarkson were our 7th, 8th, and 9th most used forwards last season at even-strength. Combined they scored 41 points. McClement and Clarkson in particular were bad with 11 and 10 points respectively. Losing Jay is addition by subtraction, at least at the offensive level. And Clarkson can't possibly be as bad as he was last season.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Bender on July 08, 2014, 09:20:01 PM
Their depth scoring should actually probably be better than last season.

17 players suited up in a (mostly) bottom 6 role, putting up 91 points in 517 combined games.  I can't see them being worse than that this season, assuming health is okay, with the players likely to be in the bottom 6.

Kulemin, McClement, and Clarkson were our 7th, 8th, and 9th most used forwards last season at even-strength. Combined they scored 41 points. McClement and Clarkson in particular were bad with 11 and 10 points respectively. Losing Jay is addition by subtraction, at least at the offensive level. And Clarkson can't possibly be as bad as he was last season.

I can't wait to quote this at the end of the year.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: freer on July 08, 2014, 09:25:43 PM
Their depth scoring should actually probably be better than last season.

17 players suited up in a (mostly) bottom 6 role, putting up 91 points in 517 combined games.  I can't see them being worse than that this season, assuming health is okay, with the players likely to be in the bottom 6.

Kulemin, McClement, and Clarkson were our 7th, 8th, and 9th most used forwards last season at even-strength. Combined they scored 41 points. McClement and Clarkson in particular were bad with 11 and 10 points respectively. Losing Jay is addition by subtraction, at least at the offensive level. And Clarkson can't possibly be as bad as he was last season.

I can't wait to quote this at the end of the year.

Clarkson finished the season with 15 g and 35 pts.... Book it.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Highlander on July 09, 2014, 09:06:40 AM
Mike 1, I most heartily disagree, Leafs have stronger scoring power this year and Clarkson will be much better.  If not he will have to spend an hour a day in a face to face showdown with the Shanaplan, and we know the Shanaplan will not flitch first. EVER
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Mike1 on July 09, 2014, 09:37:32 PM
Mike 1, I most heartily disagree, Leafs have stronger scoring power this year and Clarkson will be much better.  If not he will have to spend an hour a day in a face to face showdown with the Shanaplan, and we know the Shanaplan will not flitch first. EVER

It would be hard for Clarkson to do worse than he did but I still think he will be hard pressed to get over 30 points considering he has only done it twice in his 8 NHL seasons.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on July 15, 2014, 12:09:06 PM
Some positivity mixed with some realism, a pretty good article.

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2014/07/15/10-midsummer-thoughts-on-the-maple-leafs/
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: Potvin29 on July 15, 2014, 03:42:43 PM
According to what Mirtle has heard, doesn't look like we'll see Orr much, if at all:

Quote
Having a fourth line that actually plays a regular shift and isn’t weighed down by a Colton Orr – as appears to be the plan, according to scuttlebutt from within the organization – could alone improve what the Leafs have up front.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/hockey/globe-on-hockey/mirtle-leafs-betting-on-improvement-from-within-after-quiet-off-season/article19614049/
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: vm8444 on July 15, 2014, 07:40:59 PM
JVR Bozak Kessel
Lupul Santorelli Kadri


Komarov Kontiola Clarkson
Bodie Holland Frattin
:'(







Pretty bad forward core. The drop off after the top 5 is pretty staggering. This team had trouble with secondary scoring last year with a 20-goal season from Mason Raymond. I guess they are going to roll the dice on another cheap addition before training camp? Still, not really any improvement upfront.



Before
 I read Mike's post I'm making sure my wrists are taped.

God man you need some happy pills
Gods herb something.
Sheesh

If your not here to sell hope then leave the class please!


Ok forget right away I'm guessing same old with you.
They should of signed frick or frack over the hill has been
For 5 x 5 then regret.


Look at the big picture.
Viable 4th line that can take a regular shift.
Jvr and Kessel were stiffs burned out after Olympics so glad no Olympics next year.

Phaneuf was a stiff after signing his overpriced contract though not by much.

He should be playing less
I didn't like his game at all stretch run.


Nylander in the near future looks like a stud.
Pre season always surprizes.
Young swedes look promising
Johnson rookie of the year last year sel.

Quite a few promising d on the horizon.


Not all doom and gloom.
Stamkos ufa in 2 years.
You just never know,
Always was a leaf fan.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: moon111 on July 15, 2014, 07:58:22 PM
There's a lot of players who we've never seen, or were in roles or linemates that you couldn't really expect them to do anything with.  It shall be interesting.  And if anything, McDavid would look really good. 
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: skrackle on July 15, 2014, 09:31:36 PM
It looks to me like Shanahan wants to have a season to see what the Leafs have in their system.

There have been no major changes to the roster and past the 1st line the team is pretty thin, so I don't think the Leafs are going anywhere this coming season. I do like the fact that there were no boat anchors signed during free agency (although Nonis may have done so if left unchecked) and that there is finally a forward prospect with huge potential in the system.

It should be interesting to see who plays well in the bottom 6 and if the Leafs play a more resilient game. I wouldn't mind seeing a couple more picks of Nylander's upside over the next couple of years. Playoffs can wait. The Leafs aren't anywhere close to contending right now.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: vm8444 on July 15, 2014, 11:03:53 PM
Yet I still think they'll be better.
Watching reruns on leaf tv earlier in the year games
They looked like they could really compete.

I believe the assistants they brought in shall bring more structure to they're game which was sorely lacking.

(Swarm d collapsing d game non possession game)
The Nashville assistant should help here immensely you'll see.
Brendan is not gonna put up with floaters and eventually will clear them out.
Title: Re: 2014-2015 Toronto Maple Leaf line-ups.
Post by: freer on July 16, 2014, 02:46:18 PM
There's a lot of players who we've never seen, or were in roles or linemates that you couldn't really expect them to do anything with.  It shall be interesting.  And if anything, McDavid would look really good.

LOL time for tank for McDavid tread. Just kidding. Let not make any judgement yet. They may surprise us. Who knows.