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Maple Leafs News and Views => Leafs Media Rumours => Topic started by: Hampreacher on August 04, 2012, 02:39:12 PM

Title: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Hampreacher on August 04, 2012, 02:39:12 PM
It is rumoured that Sharks want to sign Doan. To do so they have to shed salary. How about Joe Thorton for out first line center. Who would leafs need to trade?
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Dappleganger on August 04, 2012, 02:41:09 PM
It is rumoured that Sharks want to sign Doan. To do so they have to shed salary. How about Joe Thorton for out first line center. Who would leafs need to trade?

Sure. You mean like for a second rounder and Percy?
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 04, 2012, 03:06:07 PM

Why would they sign Doan if signing Doan meant getting rid of Thornton? Unless you're giving them enough so that getting rid of Thornton made sense competitively why would they sign an aging UFA and hurt their team?

They can dump salary in a lot of different places so unless you can make an offer for Thornton that makes San Jose a better team in the meantime, which doesn't make sense for the Leafs even if they were capable of it, I have to assume San Jose will not be looking to move him.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Hampreacher on August 04, 2012, 03:36:01 PM
Buffalo said to be interested in Thornton if don't sign Doan. Sharks would also need to shed salary. Therefore make an offer.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 04, 2012, 03:48:58 PM
Buffalo said to be interested in Thornton if don't sign Doan. Sharks would also need to shed salary. Therefore make an offer.

Right now San Jose has 5.5 million in cap space. Even assuming Doan gets his 4 year/30 million dollar deal they'd only need to clear 3 or so million to have Doan and have a little breathing room.

And, as I said, it doesn't really make sense to sign Doan and trade Thornton. If you're signing Doan, you're making a push for immediate success. Why match that with trading the team's #1 centre and leading scorer unless you were getting a package back that also contributed to a team's immediate success?

Toss in that Thornton has a NMC and it kind of completes the hattrick of reasons not to trade him. They have other salaries that are significantly easier to move and don't have as much impact on the team's fortunes.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: bustaheims on August 04, 2012, 04:59:05 PM
I think Nik sums up the issue quite nicely, and, really, because of that, there is no offer that would make sense for the Leafs. San Jose isn't moving Thornton as a salary dump if the pick up Doan. If they move him, they'll expect the players who come back to be able to make up for that loss, but at a lower salary - that means young players and prospects. Trading for Thornton is a win-now type move as well, which A) the Leafs aren't in a position to make and B) means the team would need to hold on to their quality young players who are capable of making an immediate impact in the NHL - otherwise, there's just not enough depth on the roster to make sense of the addition of an aging Thornton.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Madferret on August 04, 2012, 05:39:42 PM
I'd like to hear what hampreacher thinks is a suitable offer for Thornton myself.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 04, 2012, 06:43:14 PM

I think if I'm San Jose you can probably sell me on a package involving Kessel, a good young NHL or NHL ready defenseman(Gunnar or Gardiner) and then a pick or something. Then San Jose can go forward with forward lines like this:

Marleau-Couture-Kessel
Clowe-Pavelski-Doan
Galiardi-Handzus-Havlat
Burish-Wingels-Desjardins

Then you can slide Gardiner or Gunnarsson into the top six and trade Boyle to free up cap space and have a pretty good top 6 of

Stuart-Burns
Gardiner/Gunnar-Murray
Vlasic-Demers/Braun

That would look pretty appealing to me if I'm running the Sharks. In order to trade Thornton I'd have to be convinced I could go into next year younger but still a contender and I really think that only Kessel and one of the better D-men on the Leafs does that. Of course, at that point, I don't do the deal if I'm the Leafs so we're back to it not being a situation that makes sense.
Title: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 04, 2012, 07:04:29 PM
But would you do it if it were just Kessel and a pick?
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: bustaheims on August 04, 2012, 07:07:05 PM
But would you do it if it were just Kessel and a pick?

I'd still probably say no. You'd want Thornton to play with Kessel. Without him, who is Jumbo Joe going to pass the puck to?
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 04, 2012, 07:10:27 PM
But would you do it if it were just Kessel and a pick?

I don't think so. I mean if I'm the Leafs I'm getting older and the team probably isn't close enough to contend in the two years I can control Thornton. If I'm San Jose, I think I'm giving up the better piece which hurts me immediately and in 14-15 I have a pretty tough situation having to sign Pavelski, Couture and Kessel to new deals where they all might be looking for big raises.
Title: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 04, 2012, 07:15:55 PM
But would you do it if it were just Kessel and a pick?

I'd still probably say no. You'd want Thornton to play with Kessel. Without him, who is Jumbo Joe going to pass the puck to?

JVR?

Jeez not only do we need a 1C it turns out we need wingers too.

Also, Nik's points seem strangely compelling. Much as I'd like to see Kessel moved I reluctantly have to agree that this isn't the way to do it.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Madferret on August 04, 2012, 07:21:31 PM

I think if I'm San Jose you can probably sell me on a package involving Kessel, a good young NHL or NHL ready defenseman(Gunnar or Gardiner) and then a pick or something. Then San Jose can go forward with forward lines like this:

Marleau-Couture-Kessel
Clowe-Pavelski-Doan
Galiardi-Handzus-Havlat
Burish-Wingels-Desjardins

Then you can slide Gardiner or Gunnarsson into the top six and trade Boyle to free up cap space and have a pretty good top 6 of

Stuart-Burns
Gardiner/Gunnar-Murray
Vlasic-Demers/Braun

That would look pretty appealing to me if I'm running the Sharks. In order to trade Thornton I'd have to be convinced I could go into next year younger but still a contender and I really think that only Kessel and one of the better D-men on the Leafs does that. Of course, at that point, I don't do the deal if I'm the Leafs so we're back to it not being a situation that makes sense.

Yeah that would probably do it (if trading for JT  was a possibility / made sense of course). Some might take your inclusion of Kessel a shot at B flat

Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 04, 2012, 07:25:11 PM
Some might take your inclusion of Kessel a shot at B flat

I have absolutely no idea what you're saying here.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: bustaheims on August 04, 2012, 07:25:48 PM
JVR?

Jeez not only do we need a 1C it turns out we need wingers too.

Also, Nik's points seem strangely compelling. Much as I'd like to see Kessel moved I reluctantly have to agree that this isn't the way to do it.

Well, the team has good secondary scoring wingers, but, Kessel's the only guy that's really a clear 1st line player. Trade him for Thornton, and what you're left with is still one 1st line forward, except, now, he's an older play making centre instead of a young sniper on the wing. It's just poor team building.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Madferret on August 04, 2012, 07:49:47 PM
Some might take your inclusion of Kessel a shot at B flat

I have absolutely no idea what you're saying here.

A good possibility it was a terrible joke
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: bustaheims on August 04, 2012, 08:00:02 PM
A good possibility it was a terrible joke

I understood it and it was. Your joke was bad and you should feel bad.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Britishbulldog on August 04, 2012, 08:04:01 PM
I figured that Burke thought that Grabovski IS the 1st line center on the team.  Burke is paying Grabovski more than Getzlaf makes.  If Leaf fans think that Burke is paying all that money for a 2nd line center then I am shocked.

In my real life I have to add up the numbers every day, here as a armchair GM the numbers don't work with Grabovski as a 2nd line center. 

I think moving Kessel and Gardiner for J Thornton would be a step backwards with building a team. 

......I also moved Komisarek, in a package for Luongo to help ease my pain of trading Kessel and Gardiner.  :)

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER


FORWARDS
James Van Riemsdyk ($4.250m)    / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) /    Joffrey Lupul ($4.250m)
Clarke MacArthur ($3.250m)    / Mikhail Grabovski ($5.500m) /    Nikolai Kulemin ($2.800m)
Matthew Lombardi ($3.500m)    / Tyler Bozak ($1.500m) /    Matt Frattin ($0.925m)
Mike Brown ($0.737m)    / David Steckel ($1.100m) /    Jay McClement ($1.500m)
Leo Komarov ($1.200m)   /   Tim Connolly ($4.750m)

DEFENSEMEN
Carl Gunnarsson ($1.325m)   /   Dion Phaneuf ($6.500m)
John-Michael Liles ($3.875m)   /   Cody Franson ($1.325m)
Mark Fraser ($0.600m)   /   Korbinian Holzer ($0.575m)
Matt Lashoff ($0.600m)

GOALTENDERS
James Reimer ($1.800m)  /  Roberto Luongo ($5.333m)

BUYOUTS
Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)   /   Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,195,000; BONUSES: $350,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,005,000
Title: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 04, 2012, 08:06:54 PM
A good possibility it was a terrible joke

I understood it and it was. Your joke was bad and you should feel bad.

I understood it too but I liked it. Thought it was pretty sharp, in fact.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Madferret on August 04, 2012, 08:08:52 PM
A good possibility it was a terrible joke

I understood it and it was. Your joke was bad and you should feel bad.

He's a musician / got one of the nicest guitars out there I figured he'd get it. Aw look at that you got the stink lines and everything.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Madferret on August 04, 2012, 08:10:13 PM
A good possibility it was a terrible joke

I understood it and it was. Your joke was bad and you should feel bad.

I understood it too but I liked it. Thought it was pretty sharp, in fact.

You're sweet Buck-o
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: bustaheims on August 04, 2012, 08:21:29 PM
A good possibility it was a terrible joke

I understood it and it was. Your joke was bad and you should feel bad.

I understood it too but I liked it. Thought it was pretty sharp, in fact.

Door is over there ------->
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: jdh1 on August 04, 2012, 09:03:56 PM
I would not trade Kessel for Joe...however I would look at moving Phuenef plus something for him..since we got depth at defence.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 04, 2012, 09:13:06 PM
I figured that Burke thought that Grabovski IS the 1st line center on the team.  Burke is paying Grabovski more than Getzlaf makes.  If Leaf fans think that Burke is paying all that money for a 2nd line center then I am shocked.

But that's just a reflection of the differences involved in the RFA/UFA markets. I don't think Burke is labouring under the impression that you can sign a #1 centre for 5.5 million if he's a UFA, especially not if the rumours of his offer to Richards are true.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 04, 2012, 09:14:42 PM
I would not trade Kessel for Joe...however I would look at moving Phuenef plus something for him..since we got depth at defence.

The problems with that, as I see it, are:

1) San Jose has depth on D as well
2) San Jose is, in theory, only trading Thornton to save cap space
3) Phaneuf doesn't provide good value at 6.5
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 04, 2012, 10:12:53 PM
I would not trade Kessel for Joe...however I would look at moving Phuenef plus something for him..since we got depth at defence.

The problems with that, as I see it, are:

1) San Jose has depth on D as well
2) San Jose is, in theory, only trading Thornton to save cap space
3) Phaneuf doesn't provide good value at 6.5



Truths need to be spoken loud.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Britishbulldog on August 04, 2012, 10:22:32 PM
I figured that Burke thought that Grabovski IS the 1st line center on the team.  Burke is paying Grabovski more than Getzlaf makes.  If Leaf fans think that Burke is paying all that money for a 2nd line center then I am shocked.

But that's just a reflection of the differences involved in the RFA/UFA markets. I don't think Burke is labouring under the impression that you can sign a #1 centre for 5.5 million if he's a UFA, especially not if the rumours of his offer to Richards are true.

I was just thinking of LA Kings who have Mike Richards @ $5.75 MIL and Kopitar @ $6.8 MIL so....I guess a modern cap era team CAN have $12.5 MIL tied up in the top 2 centers.  LA seemed to experience moderate success this past season.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: skrackle on August 04, 2012, 10:32:24 PM
It is rumoured that Sharks want to sign Doan. To do so they have to shed salary. How about Joe Thorton for out first line center. Who would leafs need to trade?

You've been reading Garth on Hockeybuzz, haven't you?

So have I, that's how I know.

There is help though. It's just a matter of not going there and not clicking on that link, even though it's the dog days of summer and there's nothing happening with the Leafs, or in hockey, period.

The Sharks right now are kind of like the latter-day Quinn Leafs. Still a good team, but missing something and their window is closing rapidly.

Doan to the Sharks would be sort of like Nolan to the Leafs, except it would only cost the Sharks money. A good gamble for them, and they can probably find a way to add Doan without trading Thornton, if Doan wants to go there.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 04, 2012, 10:54:25 PM
I was just thinking of LA Kings who have Mike Richards @ $5.75 MIL and Kopitar @ $6.8 MIL so....I guess a modern cap era team CAN have $12.5 MIL tied up in the top 2 centers.  LA seemed to experience moderate success this past season.

Well, if I were a wiseguy I'd point out that Pittsburgh's a pretty good club and not only are they willing to tie up 17.4 million in their top two centres but they also seemed pretty willing to give their #3 guy 6 million a year on top of that.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Potvin29 on August 04, 2012, 11:36:36 PM
I would not trade Kessel for Joe...however I would look at moving Phuenef plus something for him..since we got depth at defence.

The problems with that, as I see it, are:

1) San Jose has depth on D as well
2) San Jose is, in theory, only trading Thornton to save cap space
3) Phaneuf doesn't provide good value at 6.5



Truths need to be spoken loud.

Because an entire season of you ripping on him wasn't enough?  Sometimes the horse is dead, no matter how long you want to continue beating it.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: hockeyfan1 on August 05, 2012, 04:18:18 AM
If Thornton has a NMC, would he, theoretically-speaking, choose to play for a club such as the Leafs?
Title: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 05, 2012, 10:32:49 AM
I would not trade Kessel for Joe...however I would look at moving Phuenef plus something for him..since we got depth at defence.

The problems with that, as I see it, are:

1) San Jose has depth on D as well
2) San Jose is, in theory, only trading Thornton to save cap space
3) Phaneuf doesn't provide good value at 6.5



Truths need to be spoken loud.

Because an entire season of you ripping on him wasn't enough?  Sometimes the horse is dead, no matter how long you want to continue beating it.

He's a major problem with the team so Surprise!  I get to rip him. If that annoys you, just do your level best to ignore me. If you disagree, well, praise him to the skies. It's your prerogative and unlike you I won't say it isn't.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Potvin29 on August 05, 2012, 10:51:23 AM
I never said it isn't your prerogative to do so.  I criticized the amount you do so without adding further to the discussion of Phaneuf that hasn't been said 100x already, probably by you.  By all means continue, I'll find my 'prerogative' to comment on it if I'm in the mood.
Title: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on August 05, 2012, 02:45:28 PM
I never said it isn't your prerogative to do so.  I criticized the amount you do so without adding further to the discussion of Phaneuf that hasn't been said 100x already, probably by you.  By all means continue, I'll find my 'prerogative' to comment on it if I'm in the mood.

Fair enough and I'll try to dial back on wholly gratuitous stuff ... But be warned     I like to use  Big Red Type once in awhile.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: Nik the Trik on August 05, 2012, 04:45:02 PM
Sometimes the horse is dead, no matter how long you want to continue beating it.

Yeah, but you know what you get when you keep on beating a dead horse? Deliciously tender horse meat.
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: moon111 on October 14, 2014, 07:44:41 PM
Phaneuf and Kadri for Thornton and Hertl. :)
Title: Re: What about Joe Thorton from the Sharks
Post by: mc on November 05, 2014, 12:19:42 PM
Thornton refuses to leave Sharks amid trade rumours
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2014/11/04/22051166.html

Quote
His name has been linked in no shortage of trade rumours, the most recent coming last week in a web report indicating the Toronto Maple Leafs, among others, might once again have him on their radar.