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Maple Leafs News and Views => 2017/18 Leafs Game Day Threads => Topic started by: CarltonTheBear on November 04, 2017, 09:17:15 AM

Title: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 04, 2017, 09:17:15 AM
(https://assets.detroithockey.net/dyn/l/65x65/230.png)@(https://assets.detroithockey.net/dyn/l/65x65/78.png)
8-6-0, 16 points | 10-3-1, 21 points

Projected Lines

Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
Komarov-Kadri-Kapanen
JVR-Marleau-Brown
Martin-Bozak-Marner

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Zaitsev
Borgman-Polak

Andersen
             
Sobotka-Stastny-Steen
Schwartz-Schenn-Tarasenko
Paajarvi-Sundqvist-Jaskin
Upshall-Brodziak-Thorburn

Gunnarsson-Pietrangelo
Edmundson-Parayko
Dunn-Bortuzzo

Allen

Scratches

Dominic Moore
Connor Carrick
Josh Leivo
      
Beau Bennett
Nate Prosser

Game Notes

TOR
•Andersen (7-5-0, 3.26 GAA, .901 Sv%) will likely start for the Leafs
•Expect some line-up fiddling again with the Leafs, as we might even see a Leivo or Carrick make an appearance again. We'll have to wait for the morning skate to know more though

STL
•Jake Allen (7-3-1, 2.34 GAA, .923 Sv%) will likely start for the Blues
•St. Louis is having a very good season: they're currently tied for 2nd in points and are 14th in GF/GP and 2nd in GA/GP
•One area of concern for St. Louis has been speciality teams: they are bottom-10 in both PP% and PK%
•Jaden Schwartz is 6th in the league in scoring with 17 points in 14 games, while Pietrangelo is tied for 1st among defencemen with 13 points in 14 games
•The Schenn-for-Lehtera trade has worked out well for the Blues so far, Schenn has 11 points in 14 games and seems to have moved back to the centre position full-time
Injuries

•Nathan Horton - Back - Out indefinitely
•Joffrey Lupul - Actually Injured - Out indefinitely
      
•Carter Hutton - Personal - Questionable Saturday
•Patrick Berglund - Shoulder - Injured Reserve
•Robby Fabbri - Knee - Injured Reserve
•Jay Bouwmeester - Ankle - Injured Reserve
•Zach Sanford - Shoulder - Injured Reserve

Stream Options

https://www.reddit.com/r/NHLstreams
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 10:30:40 AM
Last memory of Blues:  getting absolutely tarasenkoed in OT.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: bustaheims on November 04, 2017, 11:40:46 AM
Based the morning skate, looks like Carrick is in, but the forwards haven't changed much.

kristen_shilton: #Leafs lines at morning skate:
Hyman-Matthews-Nylander
JvR-Marleau-Brown
Komarov-Kadri-Kapanen
Martin-Bozak-Marner
Leivo, Moore

kristen_shilton: #Leafs pairs at skate:
Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Carrick
Borgman-Zaitsev
Polak
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 12:52:18 PM
And thus began the Great Weaning...

Rielly-Hainsey
Gardiner-Carrick
Borgman-Zaitsev

We didn't really play these pairings the last time it was reported for practice.
It was
44-2 | 51-22 | 55-8

But I think it goes better the way it's written up for practice if Babcock is willing to let Rielly and Gardiner's pairings split the harder matchups and not try to shelter Borgman and Zaitsev so much. Zaitsev has to start making D-to-D passes on the buildup, or maybe trusting his legs a bit more, rather than lobbing ugly soft 'passes' north to nobody in particular.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 01:14:58 PM

Alright, I'll take it.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zee on November 04, 2017, 02:35:12 PM
Polak has to be jettisoned off this team. I know he's great for gifs, maybe he can be a team mascot or something. I just don't want him playing.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: disco on November 04, 2017, 06:55:14 PM

Willy, Auston, Mitch and also BONESAWWW is REEEEADYYYYYY...

(https://statics.sportskeeda.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/tumblr_lkvbjtbm1o1qis6pso1_1280-1493261202-800.jpg)
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Arn on November 04, 2017, 07:13:55 PM
This week where the UK clocks have changed but  North American haven't is great. Even tho I've had to abandon the british Saturday night tradition Match of the Day to switch over early to the hockey
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 07:16:54 PM
Anybody with a CBC stream?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 07:21:22 PM
If you have a Canadian VPN it's being shown free here: http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1086341187731
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: L K on November 04, 2017, 07:21:30 PM
The Leafs have really struggled with the special teams balance over the last 5-6 games.  Seems like they can't draw a penalty.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 07:23:18 PM
Bozak won't endear himself to a coach that has him in the doghouse with penalties like that.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 07:28:39 PM
Bozak won't endear himself to a coach that has him in the doghouse with penalties like that.

It wasn't a very smart penalty to take!  I'd bench him a few shifts for it!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: L K on November 04, 2017, 07:31:06 PM
Another game where the only line that isn't getting hemmed in is the Matthews line.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on November 04, 2017, 07:32:09 PM
The Borg with the SNIPE!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 07:32:35 PM
Borgman scores! 1-0 Leafs.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 07:32:36 PM
Borg!!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Arn on November 04, 2017, 07:32:51 PM
Matt Martin?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: L K on November 04, 2017, 07:33:09 PM
You will be Assimilated
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 07:34:08 PM
If you have a Canadian VPN it's being shown free here: http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1086341187731

Thanks, but I don't have a VPN.  I guess I'm lucky to have any stream at all.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: disco on November 04, 2017, 07:34:51 PM
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE ;)

... and enough with the Martin hate EVERY SINGLE GDT FOR THE LOVE OF SWEET BABY NYLANDER...
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 07:40:12 PM
Stupid penalty by Komarov too!  Get him off this team.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: L K on November 04, 2017, 07:45:44 PM
Upshall with two pretty late hits on the forecheck.  Neither were overly hard but a good 2 seconds after the defenseman passed the puck.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 04, 2017, 07:48:09 PM
Martin with a nice pass to set up a goal and Matthews getting in Thorburn's face after Nylander gets hit. Makes sense.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 07:52:27 PM
Martin sure kept the flies off there.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 08:08:54 PM
Poop... that happens when you don't get the puck out!  1-1 tie!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 08:13:34 PM
This team has regressed.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 08:17:58 PM
More poop.  2-1 Blues.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 08:18:01 PM
Man oh man.  This team's defense SUCKS.  Forwards too.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: L K on November 04, 2017, 08:18:40 PM
That's a puck Andersen has to hold onto but the Leafs defense is awful
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 08:19:26 PM
This game will go south real quick if our Leafs don't WAKE UP!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 08:20:18 PM
They look completely lost out there in their own zone.  Can't get the puck out, don't win puck battles, nothing.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 08:25:49 PM
It now really stinks!  3-1 Blues.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: L K on November 04, 2017, 08:25:51 PM
We are absolutely the worst.  That was pathetic
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 04, 2017, 08:27:21 PM
Eeesh, JVR on that lost goal... not that anyone looked particularly good.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 08:28:21 PM
How do you leave a guy that wide open everyone has a man and to boot let him waltz right in.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Chris on November 04, 2017, 08:30:10 PM
Leafs get hemmed into their own zone so easily.

Also, this is the second straight shift where Brown has been out in place of Nylander.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 08:30:31 PM
There's no need to panic but the defense needs to be addressed, it's structurally bad.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 08:30:34 PM
Eeesh, JVR on that lost goal... not that anyone looked particularly good.

Said the same thing, just doesn’t move his feet in the defensive zone.

It feels like they’ve been on their heels since the Blues ramped up the physical play on Nylander and Matthews, if you believe in momentum perhaps a Martin fight would help.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 08:31:22 PM
I just started watching Nylander benched?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 08:31:50 PM
Rielly has had a rough night.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: L K on November 04, 2017, 08:32:29 PM
I just started watching Nylander benched?

Kind of absurd if the case.  The number of veterans who have played like garbage and it seems like the punishment falls on the guys like Leivo, Marner, etc.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 08:33:32 PM
I just started watching Nylander benched?

He missed a couple of shifts (skate?) but is on Marleau's wing with JvR now. Or centring.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Chris on November 04, 2017, 08:35:53 PM
Lots of weak long range shots with no one in front. Definitely the model for success.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 08:36:10 PM
I just started watching Nylander benched?

He missed a couple of shifts (skate?) but is on Marleau's wing with JvR now.

I knew this road trip was going to be tough -- said it would be a real test for them.  The way they've played has been very disappointing.  They really look as bad as they did before Babcock came.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 04, 2017, 08:36:57 PM
The Leafs made the playoffs last year.  This lead people to believe that they were only going to get better which lead to a set of expectations on this team.  The problem is that the team can't reach those expectations.  There isn't really a reason to get upset over it, this team overachieved last year, and now they are returning to their regular place, and they just aren't the same caliber of team as the Blues, Kings and Tampa Bay.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: L K on November 04, 2017, 08:43:45 PM
Why will Babcock not split up Bozak and Marner....
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 08:45:11 PM
I like Nylander on the Marleau - JvR line as Matthews will auto-draw the heavy shutdown match up on the road. And Marleau's line really needed someone who could transition into the OZ.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: AvroArrow on November 04, 2017, 08:47:10 PM
Man, this team is approaching unwatchable.  They're back to the same problems as years passed.  If it weren't for Matthews and Nylander, it wouldn't be worth watching at all...

Time to jettison the crap (JvR, Bozak, Polak, Carrick), demote Borgman (who's not quite ready), and make some major changes on defense (at least one of Reilly or Gardiner out for something different - Trouba, Dumba, Ekholm, etc).

I can't stand another year of shit hockey, Matthews or not.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: sickbeast on November 04, 2017, 08:50:17 PM
I hate to say this because I love Babcock, but the Leafs are being out-coached right now, plain and simple.  They started off the season on fire, and the league adjusted to them.  Babcock has failed to come up with a new game plan.  To make matters worse, he altered the lineup when they were playing well, and he's playing guys who shouldn't be playing, and he's benching guys who shouldn't be benched.  I wouldn't panic and make trades just yet.  Babcock needs to figure this mess out and do it quickly.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 04, 2017, 08:52:17 PM
Third period, let's go crazy with the lines:

Kapanen-Matthews-Marner
Komarov-Kadri-Hyman
Marleau-Nylander-Brown
JVR-Bozak-Martin

Benching that 4th line for the most part.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Chris on November 04, 2017, 08:55:09 PM
Agree with the Babcock comment, this team doesn't look very well coached right now. Earn that contract, coach! The players look like they have no idea what to do in the defensive zone, rely too much on lobs and long passes to exit the zone, aren't making clean zone entries or sustaining much offensive pressure. There's too much offensive talent on this team to be playing like this.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: barney_rebel on November 04, 2017, 08:55:47 PM
We stink BTW
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: 4EVRLEAFAN on November 04, 2017, 08:57:39 PM
The Leafs made the playoffs last year.  This lead people to believe that they were only going to get better which lead to a set of expectations on this team.  The problem is that the team can't reach those expectations.  There isn't really a reason to get upset over it, this team overachieved last year, and now they are returning to their regular place, and they just aren't the same caliber of team as the Blues, Kings and Tampa Bay.

This. Patience everyone, the teams is still young,  there's still work to be done, I see some trades coming,  we'll be fine.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 04, 2017, 09:00:33 PM
I hate to say this because I love Babcock, but the Leafs are being out-coached right now, plain and simple.  They started off the season on fire, and the league adjusted to them.  Babcock has failed to come up with a new game plan.  To make matters worse, he altered the lineup when they were playing well, and he's playing guys who shouldn't be playing, and he's benching guys who shouldn't be benched.  I wouldn't panic and make trades just yet.  Babcock needs to figure this mess out and do it quickly.

I don't know if they are being out coached.  Look at the way St. Louis is playing.  They are forechecking, they are skating, they are in the Leafs face every step of the way.  There is no time or space for the Leafs to do anything.  The Leafs just don't have the skill or the mindset to pressure the Blues back.  They don't seem to be able to make plays, and when they can't make plays, there isn't a whole lot for this team to fall back on.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 09:05:06 PM
PATHETIC!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:05:30 PM
Kadri.  Very competent.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Chris on November 04, 2017, 09:05:46 PM
Kadri...yuck.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 09:05:59 PM
Holy crap Naz get your head out of your *ss.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:06:24 PM
Hooray Bozak.  Good on Marner for sticking with it.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Chris on November 04, 2017, 09:06:46 PM
I guess they need to get down by 3 goals before the urgency kicks in.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:06:57 PM
4th line is killing it tonight  ::)
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Chris on November 04, 2017, 09:07:28 PM
Guess not.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:07:29 PM
This is really one of the worst defensive performances in years.  What a joke.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:09:27 PM
You guys are all saying it's bad defense, but really it's the Blues are playing super well and their insistent forecheck is forcing errors. It's a good lesson.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 09:10:21 PM
Useless Bozak scores!  4-2 Blues.  A so what goal?

Blues get it back, and quick!  5-2 Blues.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:11:25 PM
You guys are all saying it's bad defense, but really it's the Blues are playing super well and their insistent forecheck is forcing errors. It's a good lesson.

No.  What you are looking at is some godawful defense more than anything.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 04, 2017, 09:12:14 PM
I have to say, I'm not really disappointed with the losing.  I kind of thought there would be a regression this year.  What I am disappointed with is that this team is incredibly easy to play against.  I thought that they would at least be competitive.  It's men against boys most nights though.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on November 04, 2017, 09:15:01 PM
Fallin' for Dahlin! 
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 09:18:25 PM
2 plus years at the helm and Babcock has not done crap with this team defensively. We have been horrible for years and nothing has changed. Your that good of a coach and paid was he's getting paid how hard is it to improve on the pathetic defense we've seen over the years. If it's the players and they can't figure it out then starting moving some of them.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:18:36 PM
Hyman = 100
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 04, 2017, 09:21:45 PM
2 plus years at the helm and Babcock has not done crap with this team defensively. We have been horrible for years and nothing has changed. Your that good of a coach and paid was he's getting paid how hard is it to improve on the pathetic defense we've seen over the years. If it's the players and they can't figure it out then starting moving some of them.

Yes that should be easy.  Here, take our garbage defensive players, and give us your good ones so that you can get worse and we can get better. 

Can't see why they haven't done that yet?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:22:12 PM
I'm booing that face off call.

Also that stick to Andersen's head.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:22:53 PM
2 plus years at the helm and Babcock has not done crap with this team defensively. We have been horrible for years and nothing has changed. Your that good of a coach and paid was he's getting paid how hard is it to improve on the pathetic defense we've seen over the years. If it's the players and they can't figure it out then starting moving some of them.

You can't sell low but I would be looking to move one of Rielly or Gardiner at some point.  They need a different mix on D.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 09:23:17 PM
What the hell coach?

Challenge?

Martin, punch someone!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 09:23:39 PM
I don't understand the face off penalties. When one of your guys is thrown out why bother even trying to win the face off especially when your in the defensive zone. Just let them win it and go straight in. Dumb inexcusable taking a penalty in that situation.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:24:50 PM
Giveaway after giveaway.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on November 04, 2017, 09:25:06 PM
YES!!!!!!!!  BROWN!!!!!!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 09:25:11 PM
Wake up Babcock. No challenges, no timeout, don't pull Andersen. Holy crap.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:25:46 PM
Hyman = 100 + 100
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 09:26:12 PM
Two Taranna boys still skating here.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:26:16 PM
herman you are right about Hyman, the best forward tonight.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 04, 2017, 09:26:55 PM
Hyman = 100 + 100

So two Seth Griffiths?   I need to know where he is on the Seth Griffith scale.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:28:10 PM
Andersen should be pulled. He’s been shaking his head the whole time since getting Schenn’s stick to the face.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:30:15 PM
Lol Hyman

He shouldn’t think about feeding Matthews so much as he should be thinking about driving to the prime spots.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Significantly Insignificant on November 04, 2017, 09:30:42 PM
So that's the type of play they have to get rid of.  At the start of the period, Matthews threw it to no one.  And just now Brown passed it to no one.  They have to get away from this make the most pretty play ever mentality and just grind out some goals.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:33:03 PM
Bozak. 2nd.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 09:33:30 PM
So what has Nylander done to see the bench.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:33:52 PM
WOW A SKILLED 4th LINE IS PRETTY COOL EH.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 09:34:07 PM
Martin with two very good apples tonight.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Guru Tugginmypuddah on November 04, 2017, 09:34:45 PM
Bozak. 2nd.

Assisted by Matt "Tie Domi" Martin.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:35:36 PM
So what has Nylander done to see the bench.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

JvR, I understand.
Kapanen on the bench... okay, because Marleau is needed for Kadri's line.
Nylander... not a centre, apparently, so...

Edit: just being held in reserve for a sheltered OZ start.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:36:46 PM
Martin with two very good apples tonight.

Yes indeed.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 09:37:41 PM
My biggest problem with the team recently is the bomb from their own goal line looking for a tip at the offensive blue line, it’s such a low percentage play, you’re hoping the pass gets to a spot where you immediately give possession away. It’s too predictable and when teams clog things up it ends with you getting pinned in your own zone constantly.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: WhatIfGodWasALeaf on November 04, 2017, 09:46:24 PM
They ice the puck doing exactly that with the net empty and under a minute left.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 09:46:46 PM
Had ample chances to get the puck deep in the Blues zone but such dumb decisions with the puck.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 09:47:50 PM
8-7 now.  Plenty of time to right the ship but fundamental changes are needed.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:48:10 PM
Hyman: 15 GP 4G 4A 8Pts, on pace for 21G 21A
Brown: 15 GP 6G 3A 9Pts, on pace for 32G 16A

Scaling for tightening back half of the season, there's a really good chance Hyman hits 15G and Brown goes over 20G, considering both of their deployments.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 09:49:14 PM
Gardiner, JVR, Komarov and Martin need new homes.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 09:50:09 PM
I have nothing good to say about the Leafs, their coach, or, the NHL Refs and Linesman!  NOTHING!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: barney_rebel on November 04, 2017, 09:52:07 PM
We stink
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 09:53:39 PM
We stink

Yes, we do, but, so do the NHL Referees and Linesman!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 04, 2017, 09:53:52 PM
Borgman looks pretty okay+ without Polak.
Martin posted 3 pts tonight with two of them being beauty assists.
We've found Bozak's level: slightly better than 4th liner.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Al14 on November 04, 2017, 09:56:46 PM
Gardiner, JVR, Komarov and Martin need new homes.

You forgot the useless Bozak!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 10:02:09 PM
Gardiner, JVR, Komarov and Martin need new homes.

You forgot the useless Bozak!

You can throw him in there to, seeing how his name has bandered around as going. I'd throw him on the 4th line.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: 4EVRLEAFAN on November 04, 2017, 10:02:18 PM
Check this out guy's, as of right now we have 57 goals, that's first in the league, unfortunately we also have 55 goals against, 2nd worst in the league, if we ever get the D fixed we should be unbeatable...lol
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zee on November 04, 2017, 10:02:40 PM
I mean yeah the Leafs were ass and changes are needed, but St Louis had been playing at home since last Saturday, were well rested while the Leafs played 4 games in 6 nights and traveled for every game.  Is anyone really surprised?
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: azzurri63 on November 04, 2017, 10:09:55 PM
The losses are one thing how we lose is another. Frustrating watching the same s**t over and over again. I hate repeating myself on this site year after year. How hard is it to defend without the puck? Is it coaching, is it personnel whatever it is change something!
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 04, 2017, 10:13:23 PM
I mean yeah the Leafs were ass and changes are needed, but St Louis had been playing at home since last Saturday, were well rested while the Leafs played 4 games in 6 nights and traveled for every game.  Is anyone really surprised?

Sure it's a tough swing but like azzurri said it's how they lost the 3 of 4.  Totally overmatched on defense and like someone said, outcoached to boot.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: TML fan on November 04, 2017, 10:53:09 PM
This is likely way more indicative of how good the team really is than the first month was. They are really no better than they were last year...probably a little worse actually. Expectations are just higher now.

Things need to change, but not right away. I hope they can make the RIGHT moves with personnel, and not get stuck in short term thinking.

I was saying to my friend tonight that the Leafs started to slide when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. He made a good point when he said that the core group NEEDS to learn how to play defence because most of them will likely still be with the club when they do get better and start competing for real.

It was probably premature to get as excited about the Leafs start as we did, and it's probably premature to get as frustrated as we are now. We were promised pain 3 years ago. This is it.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: skrackle on November 04, 2017, 11:35:38 PM
This is likely way more indicative of how good the team really is than the first month was. They are really no better than they were last year...probably a little worse actually. Expectations are just higher now.

Things need to change, but not right away. I hope they can make the RIGHT moves with personnel, and not get stuck in short term thinking.

I was saying to my friend tonight that the Leafs started to slide when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. He made a good point when he said that the core group NEEDS to learn how to play defence because most of them will likely still be with the club when they do get better and start competing for real.

It was probably premature to get as excited about the Leafs start as we did, and it's probably premature to get as frustrated as we are now. We were promised pain 3 years ago. This is it.
It's the expectations that concern me the most. Not so much the fan expectations, because we get excited when the team wins and down when they lose. That's what fans do.

It's what management/ownership expects that's bugging me. At times I think that the Leafs organization has been basking in the hype around the team and actually think this roster is ready to contend. I would really hate to think that, because that's just more of the short term mentality as you mentioned, that's kept the Leafs as a bad to mediocre team for decades.

There is a real reason for optimism with the Leafs, but there is a huge learning curve along with some significant roster shaping ahead before anything really starts to happen. The pain that's been spoken of is going to be experienced by management in their roster decisions from here on.

Of course, management knows this...
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Chris on November 05, 2017, 12:50:14 AM
This is likely way more indicative of how good the team really is than the first month was. They are really no better than they were last year...probably a little worse actually. Expectations are just higher now.

Things need to change, but not right away. I hope they can make the RIGHT moves with personnel, and not get stuck in short term thinking.

I was saying to my friend tonight that the Leafs started to slide when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. He made a good point when he said that the core group NEEDS to learn how to play defence because most of them will likely still be with the club when they do get better and start competing for real.

It was probably premature to get as excited about the Leafs start as we did, and it's probably premature to get as frustrated as we are now. We were promised pain 3 years ago. This is it.

Agree with a lot of your post regarding expectations. Disagree with the idea that the slide started when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. I think the slide started when other teams started tightening up especially in the neutral zone. The goals didn't come as easily for the Leafs and the defensive shortcomings were exposed...they were always there but the team could no longer score enough to offset that weakness. They definitely have a lot of work to do especially in the defensive zone.

Otherwise...I stopped watching at 6-2 but up to that point thought Martin was one of the best forwards. Kapanen looks like he belongs. I've always liked Komarov but he doesn't seem to be himself this year.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: TML fan on November 05, 2017, 01:55:33 AM
Maybe teams played them tighter but I think it's a combination and I'm hesitant to give all the credit to the opposition. Now I admit I have only watched pieces of their last 5 games but it seemed to me that the Leafs have been so focused on their play without the puck that they are spending too much of the game playing without it. I think this is somewhat by design. I mean, obviously these results are not what they're going for but I think that's a product of still learning that side of the game. I'm also not suggesting that they are intentionally letting the other team have the puck, just that they aren't pursuing it and controlling it as aggressively as they were earlier on in favour of concentrating on defensive positioning and limiting high quality chances, which obviously they still need a lot of work on.

Notice how the Leafs seem to make the games close at the end? At that point they've pretty much abandoned playing defence to try and even the score, and whether it's a combination of their skill and the other team relenting a bit or if it's just their skill alone, they're getting back into games they had no business being in based on their play through 40 or so minutes.

Like I said I think this is by design. They could go the whole season basically not playing defence and probably still make the playoffs but that doesn't help them in the long run as a team as deeply flawed as that probably isn't going to win a championship without stellar goaltending, which I'm not convinced the Leafs have.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: TML fan on November 05, 2017, 01:00:37 AM
This is likely way more indicative of how good the team really is than the first month was. They are really no better than they were last year...probably a little worse actually. Expectations are just higher now.

Things need to change, but not right away. I hope they can make the RIGHT moves with personnel, and not get stuck in short term thinking.

I was saying to my friend tonight that the Leafs started to slide when they started worrying about keeping pucks out of their net. He made a good point when he said that the core group NEEDS to learn how to play defence because most of them will likely still be with the club when they do get better and start competing for real.

It was probably premature to get as excited about the Leafs start as we did, and it's probably premature to get as frustrated as we are now. We were promised pain 3 years ago. This is it.

It's what management/ownership expects that's bugging me. At times I think that the Leafs organization has been basking in the hype around the team and actually think this roster is ready to contend. I would really hate to think that, because that's just more of the short term mentality as you mentioned, that's kept the Leafs as a bad to mediocre team for decades.

Yeah it's a concern for me as well, but I'm keeping faith that this management group is playing the long game.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 05, 2017, 07:38:53 AM
Babcock’s post-game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4QmMtpdOIE
He is remarkably even-keeled in his response after a hard-to-watch effort to cap off a semi-disasterous road trip.

When asked about what he thought of Borgman:
Quote
”...Matthews’ group is always good. Matthews and Hyman are good, I should say.”

Upon further review of the highlights (and low lights), Nylander was indeed benched briefly (around the time I was able to get back and start watching) and shuffled off that line for lackadaisical defense.

Siegel highlights one of those key instances at the top of his game writeup.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 05, 2017, 07:48:37 AM
Babcock also said Martin will never have a better game than that. And I know he meant it as a compliment but yeah, that was basically peak Martin without him doing any of that stupid stuff.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: L K on November 05, 2017, 08:48:29 AM
Leafs deserved to lose this one and it wasn’t a close game by any means.  Why was that not a trip on Borgman that led directly to a St Louis goal.  Then the 6th goal was goaltender interference. 
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 05, 2017, 11:02:41 AM
Then the 6th goal was goaltender interference. 

I mean it almost certainly wouldn't have changed the result of the game but I have no idea why Babs didn't challenge that goal. Would have been overturned for sure.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: AvroArrow on November 05, 2017, 11:14:57 AM
I don't see any goalie interference on the last goal against...
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: CarltonTheBear on November 05, 2017, 11:24:19 AM
I don't see any goalie interference on the last goal against...

Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Bullfrog on November 05, 2017, 11:31:04 AM
I don't see any goalie interference on the last goal against...

Aside from the goalie being smacked in the head with a hockey stick, that is.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 05, 2017, 11:53:38 AM
Babcock’s post-game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4QmMtpdOIE
He is remarkably even-keeled in his response after a hard-to-watch effort to cap off a semi-disasterous road trip.

When asked about what he thought of Borgman:
Quote
”...Matthews’ group is always good. Matthews and Hyman are good, I should say.”

Upon further review of the highlights (and low lights), Nylander was indeed benched briefly (around the time I was able to get back and start watching) and shuffled off that line for lackadaisical defense.

Siegel highlights one of those key instances at the top of his game writeup.

I know Babcock is trying to send a strong message to a young player and so he's going to treat Nylander differently than JVR and Bozak, but still -- you won't be seeing them benched (demoted, yes).  For that matter, Kadri has had some pretty lackadaisical moments.  There's a whole raft of forwards who have not gotten it done defensively and/or in terms of general effort.  You can see why he loves Hyman so much, and it's pretty hard to fault him on that count.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 05, 2017, 12:13:28 PM
Hyman and Brown and Matthews (and Marleau maybe) are the guys Babcock doesn’t have to worry about.

If anything, this stretch should help the trade the UFAs cause, so I’m all for it. Early adversity builds character.

I don’t mind Nylander being (un)called out. It shows Babcock recognizes he has so much more to contribute if he Hyman’d it. More telling is that JvR and Bozak don’t get this sort of discipline hitting the pressers (trade value).
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: AvroArrow on November 05, 2017, 01:18:17 PM
I don't see any goalie interference on the last goal against...

Aside from the goalie being smacked in the head with a hockey stick, that is.

The NHL.com highlights didn't have that view, and I missed it live.

It at least shows something reasonable enough to challenge.  I don't, however, think the decision would be overturned, but that may be a result of inconsistent decisions regarding goalie interference.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate on November 05, 2017, 01:26:24 PM
More telling is that JvR and Bozak don’t get this sort of discipline hitting the pressers (trade value).

I see your point but honestly if he did call them out it wouldn't affect their trade value one bit.  Lou knows their value, and every other GM does too.  You are going to get exactly what you see with them -- and despite their current bad stretch they both have considerable trade value.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: hockeyfan1 on November 06, 2017, 08:29:04 AM
I don't see any goalie interference on the last goal against...

Aside from the goalie being smacked in the head with a hockey stick, that is.

The NHL.com highlights didn't have that view, and I missed it live.

It at least shows something reasonable enough to challenge.  I don't, however, think the decision would be overturned, but that may be a result of inconsistent decisions regarding goalie interference.


That was definitely interference of a gross nature.  Babcock should have challenged it.  It would of at least sent a 'message' to the Blues that the Leafs won't back down and that the crease area not be tolerated as a war zone.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 06, 2017, 02:09:03 PM
In case you were wondering:

RIP video coach

Also, they were probably scanning for offside and missed the interference. Every ref on the ice missed it, no Leaf on the ice complained to the ref directly about it, and Andersen just got up and shook it off (a few times).
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 06, 2017, 03:19:09 PM
Bourne breaks down the play that Nylander was given some heat for
https://theathletic.com/148082/2017/11/06/bourne-william-nylander-takes-heat-for-role-in-a-defensive-breakdown-was-he-to-blame/
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Britishbulldog on November 06, 2017, 03:42:59 PM
Bourne breaks down the play that Nylander was given some heat for
https://theathletic.com/148082/2017/11/06/bourne-william-nylander-takes-heat-for-role-in-a-defensive-breakdown-was-he-to-blame/

Just subscribed.  30% off.
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: Crucialness Key on November 06, 2017, 03:49:17 PM
In case you were wondering:

RIP video coach

Also, they were probably scanning for offside and missed the interference. Every ref on the ice missed it, no Leaf on the ice complained to the ref directly about it, and Andersen just got up and shook it off (a few times).

Maybe Andersen should have a secret signal (waving his arms, pointing goalie stick straight up, etc) that means "HEY COACH I GOT WHACKED IN THE FRIKKIN HEAD PLEASE CHALLENGE"

note: in no way am I trying to put this on Andersen, I'm just amazed how all the refs and everyone totally missed it
Title: Re: Leafs @ Blues - Nov. 4th, 7:00pm - CBC, Fan 590
Post by: herman on November 06, 2017, 03:51:49 PM
I mean... I didn't notice this play, and it's way more obvious and hilarious.